Zero Punctuation: Ninja Gaiden 3

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Aiddon:

MatsVS:
"What was one of the last bastions of actual challenge..."

But! Wait! What!? Nooo...

That's Demon's- and Dark Souls and Yathzee raged against that shit for being "too hard" and "unfair" and other such assorted nonsensical bullshit.

Note the "actual" next to challenge. Dark Souls, while very good, had a really bad habit of finding the right amount of challenge...and then arbitrarily sticking three or four extra things in that shoved it the realm of "cheap." The Four Kings, some sections of Anor Londo, Blight Town, Sen's Fortress, and the Capra Demon were particularly bad in that regard

but those moments were rare. the only time remember i was calling the games cheap was in anor lando with the dragonslayerbows archers. the rest of the time is was always fair IMO, and at the end i even found the bosses a bit lacking, but that can also be because i out-leveled the content.

Qitz:
... publishers seem to think gamers don't want hard games.

Publishers have sales numbers proving that gamers don't want hard games. Complain about it all you want about it (I know I will) but you and I are in the minority.

I don't understand what Yatzee's point is there at the end. "It's like a Final Fantasy game being too good." What's that mean? Is he saying that if a FF game was good he'd complain about it? I'm confused.

Lordofthesuplex:

CXZ_inc0g:
snip

snap

Buddy I understand your cause but considering the amount of hype Nintendo already gave Uprising beforehand, I don't think we need any internet celebrities to give it more recognition. Especially not Yahtzee and his closeted bias against Nintendo.

Well, that's the thing, this game in my mind at least, gives proof that Nintendo has the ability to return to its former hardcore glory. Sure the dialogue is a little odd at times, but hey, the dialogue was like that in RE 4 and Yahtzee enjoyed that as well. As for the 3-D part of the game, Kid Icarus actually utilizes it pretty well and a lot of the scenery is pretty good when mixed with the stereoscopic part, but if that's still against the game, oh well that's Yahtzee's bias.

However, please tell me, what is wrong with the controls? They're pretty simple.

Aiddon:

MatsVS:
"What was one of the last bastions of actual challenge..."

But! Wait! What!? Nooo...

That's Demon's- and Dark Souls and Yathzee raged against that shit for being "too hard" and "unfair" and other such assorted nonsensical bullshit.

Note the "actual" next to challenge. Dark Souls, while very good, had a really bad habit of finding the right amount of challenge...and then arbitrarily sticking three or four extra things in that shoved it the realm of "cheap." The Four Kings, some sections of Anor Londo, Blight Town, Sen's Fortress, and the Capra Demon were particularly bad in that regard

Seconded. Challenging=/=hard.

Here's a few scenarios:

1. The only way to complete the level is to skillfully takedown a combination of enemies in quick succession like a boss, in a manner requiring finesse and cleverness.

2. The only way to complete the level is to skillfully takedown a combination of enemies in quick succession like a boss in a manner requiring finesse and cleverness while praying that their cheap attacks don't knock you down and insta-kill you.

3. The only way to complete the level is to skillfully takedown a combination of enemies in quick succession like a boss in a manner requiring finesse and cleverness, but the level is so long and unforgiving and the savepoints so rare that the slightest mistake will kill you, so you just have to try and do the damn thing over and over..

See? That's all hard, but only one of them is a scenario that is any fun and, by extension, can be considered challenging instead of the game just yelling "FUCK YOU" at you for 10 hours.

well if this does bad enough, IF they make another one maybe they'll make it difficult again...and if not there is always Shinobi from Sega, enjoyed the version for PS2 maybe someday they'll make another one

Stupid ad skip didn't work for me.

Aiddon:
There is no such thing as Team Ninja anymore, it's only comprised of a bunch of drek lacking direction. Guess people ought to be sending Sakamoto apology letters and a box of chocolates for their criticisms of Other M

Nope. Team Ninja DESERVED to be absolved after Other M. Such is the way of capitalism.

Hacking limbs off? I thought Ninja Gaiden 3 lacks dismemberment of any kind. Am I right?

cymonsgames:

Qitz:
... publishers seem to think gamers don't want hard games.

Publishers have sales numbers proving that gamers don't want hard games. Complain about it all you want about it (I know I will) but you and I are in the minority.

I don't understand what Yatzee's point is there at the end. "It's like a Final Fantasy game being too good." What's that mean? Is he saying that if a FF game was good he'd complain about it? I'm confused.

He's saying that Final Fantasy games being good would be a major betrayal of the series standard and values. It's an impossibility. Hence the "sky caving in on us" comment.

Well, I'm unsurprised.

I guess it's more playthroughs (and missions) of NG Sigma 1 and 2 instead of getting 3 then.

at 3:37, you appear to have something resembling a goatee... Purposefully or accident?

MatsVS:
"What was one of the last bastions of actual challenge..."

But! Wait! What!? Nooo...

That's Demon's- and Dark Souls and Yathzee raged against that shit for being "too hard" and "unfair" and other such assorted nonsensical bullshit.

This was my first thought when he said that.

So Ninja Gaiden 3 has a bizarre plot about bio-monsters? And it's demonstrably worse than the previous two?

Sounds just like the last Ninja Gaiden 3. Wow, it's the 90s all over again.

Wow, I was expecting Yahtzee to be a bit more harsh than he was for this game...

He didn't even touch on how Team Ninja's Shell humanized Ryu by making him constantly spitting out one-liners.
Or the absurdity of enemies begging for their lives.

Or even why you must cut through bone, but not sever the limb?!

Aiddon:
Note the "actual" next to challenge. Dark Souls, while very good, had a really bad habit of finding the right amount of challenge...and then arbitrarily sticking three or four extra things in that shoved it the realm of "cheap." The Four Kings, some sections of Anor Londo, Blight Town, Sen's Fortress, and the Capra Demon were particularly bad in that regard

I, and so many others, found that by simply reconsidering our approach and using everything the game had given us so far, those challenges also became quite surpassable. But while I honestly think that every internet thread ever becomes better by being about Dark Souls, I really only wanted to point out this inconsistency, not hijack the discussion.

"The Prime Minister has been kidnapped by Nindgers. Are you a righteous enough chap to rescue the Prime Minister?"

Seen a gameplay video, didn't seem interesting. Passed like a boss.

Wait, where the hell did this game come from? I hadn't heard of it until about five minutes ago. I guess you could say it snuck in like a ninja!
I'll let myself out.

I haven't played through the storyline of any of the Call of Duty games but it kind of feels like Yahtzee may be a little quick to label things racist.

The game is too easy ? Oh how the mighty have fallen. Ninja gaiden was known for it's difficulty and the casuals have gotten their slimey hands all over it . Tis a sad day for gaming indeed .

R.I.P Ninja gaiden.

Climbing up walls using the shoulder buttons? Hmmm, reminds me of that one part in Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2.

Want a challenge Yahtzee? I got a little something something for ya called Dark Souls, you might have heard of it's successor, demon's so...oh right.

Aiddon:

MatsVS:
"What was one of the last bastions of actual challenge..."

But! Wait! What!? Nooo...

That's Demon's- and Dark Souls and Yathzee raged against that shit for being "too hard" and "unfair" and other such assorted nonsensical bullshit.

Note the "actual" next to challenge. Dark Souls, while very good, had a really bad habit of finding the right amount of challenge...and then arbitrarily sticking three or four extra things in that shoved it the realm of "cheap." The Four Kings, some sections of Anor Londo, Blight Town, Sen's Fortress, and the Capra Demon were particularly bad in that regard

Not really. Actually both are in the same niche. In DS they purposely lower the frame rate to make certain parts more difficult as in NG the camera was programmed to be incredibly esquizofrenic from time to time.

I'm really, really fed up with easy games. Gah. Maybe I should buy Dark Souls?

Sorry Yahtzee but this video review by Scott C. Jones (and VLucas)is much funnier:
http://www.reviewsontherun.com/all/spotlight/ninja-gaiden-3-xbox-360ps3-video-review/

(just this once)

1:45 'A spunky professional single mother'? Ah ha ha ha! Well that explains why she's had a kid - she's full of spunk!

CAPTCHA: Pampers. describe this brand with any word(s)
Prophetic as ever Escapist Captcha Oracle!

Ninja Gaiden 3 is NOT EASY!
There's this thing called a *gasp* difficulty setting in the options.
I've watched 2 people stream this game online. They were dying constantly and were pretty much ready to toss their controllers into their TV's due to how difficult it was.

I didn't even realized it's Wednesday,guess I was too busy raiding that I didn't notice it.

I heard from the reviews and other sources that fans of this franchise are really pissed because of the mainstreaming of this third installment.I can't say anything for myself,because I haven't played any Ninja Gaiden game.The only ones close with ninja's that I played was Onimusha and Ninja Blade.

Regarding this particular vid,I had a very good laughs which I was expecting.

Hmmm, well I think the problem is that "curses" are subjective. A curse that say maims you with an uncontrollable killing arm would really suck for 99% of the world, but if your say a Ninja who from that paticular moment on has very little going on except to kill several hundred dudes, it doesn't much matter. This is why curses like lycanthropy, or a demonic mage of uncontrollable bloodshed (Splatterhouse) don't work too well in video games.

To put it into perspective, Elric's sword "Stormbringer" has a nasty habit of killing everyone around him whenever he doesn't toe the line and do exactly what "The Lords Of The Higher Worlds" want him to do (and sometimes even then). Sure, it's awesome when he's hacking his way through small armies of semi-divine monsters, but less cool when it decides to say munch the soul of his true love, or kill almost everyone who ever tries to help him and watch his back (the exception being the incarnation of the Eternal Companion: Moonglum, who is pretty much favored by the same force empowering the sword).

The point being that I don't disagree with it being a curse, just that it's not much of a curse in this context. I agree that you'd think this is the kind of curse you'd put on a relatively normal sort, as opposed to a loner Ninja who has already decided to make it a personal crusade to kill you, and pretty much everyone else you've ever been remotely aquainted with.

-

That said I think people getting on games for not being politically correct is going overboard. Complaining about the game being racist for say portraying Muslims as the bad guys (which they are from a certain point of view held by a lot of people for good reason) is EXACTLY why we see so many bloody zombies in games, because as soon as people show up we start having critics scream "OMG, your not treating the brits even handedly" or "OMG, you can't show the Muslims as the bad guys". It's even greater hypocricy when you look at people making arguements about parts of the western world being far more concerned over sexuality than violence, and then having people scream "OMG, female characters in kinky and/or revealing outfits, we need to stop those", which undermines the whole arguement people make about the lulzworthy nature of a society that gets concerned over say bear breasts but doesn't mind the sadistic disembowelment of opponents.

The point here I'm making is that critics need to be careful about what they say, in this review alone a lot of Yahtzee's own snark has pretty much discredited a lot of the criticisms he's made in his other columns. You can't have it both ways, and if you wonder where a lot of this garbage comes from, well look at the criticisms made in this week's Zero punctuation, and conider this is supposed to be the irreverant game review. It's been going on for a while but Yahtzee seems to be slowly but surely turning into my grandmother.

Experimental:
"The Prime Minister has been kidnapped by Nindgers. Are you a righteous enough chap to rescue the Prime Minister?"

Seen a gameplay video, didn't seem interesting. Passed like a boss.

You, sir, win the internet.

Xenoblade Chronicles or Kid Icarus: Uprising next week?

MatsVS:

Aiddon:
Note the "actual" next to challenge. Dark Souls, while very good, had a really bad habit of finding the right amount of challenge...and then arbitrarily sticking three or four extra things in that shoved it the realm of "cheap." The Four Kings, some sections of Anor Londo, Blight Town, Sen's Fortress, and the Capra Demon were particularly bad in that regard

I, and so many others, found that by simply reconsidering our approach and using everything the game had given us so far, those challenges also became quite surpassable. But while I honestly think that every internet thread ever becomes better by being about Dark Souls, I really only wanted to point out this inconsistency, not hijack the discussion.

The idea is that there's a difference between a game being hard and a game being challenging. While ingenuity helps in Dark Souls, it's undeniable that Dark Souls also requires either a fair bit of luck or a lot of repetition in order to complete missions the first (or sometimes even second or third) time around, and that the game is made so that one has to do the latter a fair amount of times in order to progress. A game that tries to make sure you can't figure out how to do something the first time around as frequently as Dark Souls does it (regardless of whether one actually ends up repeating every section or not, the game is clearly built with that sort of process in mind), removes itself from the category of "challenging" that Yatzee (or others) would refer to, and just makes it hard. Just like how adding more bad guys to every Final Fantasy battle doesn't make it more "challenging" just because it makes it more difficult to win. Making a game "challenging" is more complicated.

Stabbing people with inhumanly large arms caused by something that should normally leave someone dead, and then using said power to occasionally do an overpowered "fuck you" move?

Oh, yeah, Prototype 2 is coming out in a couple of months! Also, The Darkness II came out a couple months AGO.

This "pure Gratification" (see the "Saints Row the Third" Extra Punctuation) side of gaming is becoming one of those trends Yatzee despises, along with chest-high walls and story being unlike gameplay.

Why does Yahtzee always depress me after a game review? Wait, don't tell me, it's not him, is it? It's all these mother fucking games that ruin my day as soon as I hear about them.

I mean, I used to love Ninja Gaiden for the sole reason of difficulty. It wasn't the violence, Mortal Kombat, everybody, and everybody's mother had that. It wasn't because of Ninjas; they were never that great anyway, at least not in Gaiden. If you wanted Ninja sword fights, there were other games. It wasn't for magic attacks either, so many games already have that. Oh boy, using a magic dragon to fight for you. I haven't heard of anyone doing that before. I mean, Pokemon may have been doing that shit for two decades now but hey, lets not focus on that.

Parkour running and whatnot? Well Assassin's Creed used to be entirely based on the premise and Mirrors Edge did that as well. We really don't need another third person action game using that mechanic as a main feature. Ubi-Soft did fuck up on AC (the last two) but hopefully they rectify their mistake in AC3. Not very promising but whatever.

Gaiden wasn't for stealth, Thief and Splinter Cell had that covered. I say had because Conviction (the last SC game) was so shitty at the whole open-ended stealth thing it made Gear of War look like Hitman. Not bitter but Ubi-Soft can go fuck themselves with a broken lead pipe. Seriously, that's two incredible games they made then absolutely destroyed with crappy sequels.

But yeah, Ninja Gaiden was that one game that made you contemplate rage quitting life or at least eating a half gallon of ice cream out of anger. But if Yahtzee says its easy? Wow, it must be pretty weak. He doesn't say that unless it makes Little Big Planet look like, well, Ninja Gaiden. Fuck everything, I'm out.

And I wonder why modern video games make me depressed...

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