The Half-Naked Elf Problem

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Screamarie:

animehermit:

Screamarie:
As some women have stated before and as the article state I don't really mind chainmail bikinis if 1. You actually get to choose it. If that's what you want fine, I don't care. or 2. if the men are dressed similarly.

But something that I really hate is sexualizing an outfit that isn't supposed to be sexual.

Case in point

Now I'm not necessarily upset with Ashley's sex appeal update...I think it's rather out of character for her but...whatever. Pick your battles and all and Ashley was dead in my mass effect anyways.

Getting to the point though...this uniform is FUCKED up. Why? Because of that slit where her clevage is trying to strain free of its clothy bonds. Why is that there? I don't remember a slit over the chest in the men's alliance uniforms. So why is there one for the females? It doesn't do anything. It doesn't make it easier to wear, it doesn't make it classier...It is OBVIOUSLY there just so you can see boob and that's messed up.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all up for some eye-candy, male and female both...when it's appropriate. This is an Alliance navy uniform, it's essentially dress blues if I'm not mistaken! What the fuck?

She's wearing it more casually is probably the correct answer. I would imagine if worn correctly it would look pretty similar to today's military garb for women.

At least they give Ashley an armor option for combat.

Just to be certain we're talking about the same thing I'm speaking about the second and third pictures of Ashley, not the first with the zipper down.

In the second and third image, the slit doesn't have any buttons. It doesn't have a zipper. It's just a slit over her boobs. Tell me how she's supposed to wear that more formally?

Maybe that's why they cut those out? That design isn't in the game btw, that image you linked is concept art.

animehermit:

Screamarie:

animehermit:

She's wearing it more casually is probably the correct answer. I would imagine if worn correctly it would look pretty similar to today's military garb for women.

At least they give Ashley an armor option for combat.

Just to be certain we're talking about the same thing I'm speaking about the second and third pictures of Ashley, not the first with the zipper down.

In the second and third image, the slit doesn't have any buttons. It doesn't have a zipper. It's just a slit over her boobs. Tell me how she's supposed to wear that more formally?

Maybe that's why they cut those out? That design isn't in the game btw, that image you linked is concept art.

I'm well aware. Doesn't mean it's not still wrong.

I'm going to make broad statement about high-testosterone males here:

If this game DIDN'T have half-naked women elves with miniskirts revealing their undergarments, would you have even taken a second glance at this game? I don't know about you, but if I were to see two headlines, one about a nuclear threat from North Korea, and another with a phrase that has any one of these two words or its synonyms: women and naked, my first instinct is to click on the latter.

Luckily, before I click on it, I remind myself of why I'm clicking on it and I go sit in the corner and condemn myself for being such a primitive ape. I can just GOOGLE the phrase "naked women" if that's what I want to see!

I'm going to admit that the only reason I'm posting here is because of the headline. I know, it's sad, it's pathetic, but dammit, it's how I am, and companies are well-aware of this as well. Give one example of any kind of advertisement that has an average-looking female. And I really do mean average. Post one advertisement featuring a female that has no makeup, has zits, moles, a little weight, anything that would deteriorate the Hollywood-standard of a perfect-looking woman.

They exist, but they're extremely rare.

Games are not the only forms of entertainment that does this. Sexualizing females is pretty much everywhere, and it's a good marketing decision (as much as I'd hate to say it). It's a good way to get (heterosexual) male's attention to make us pay long enough attention to what they're advertising.

However, I'm not totally against this. We're sexual creatures, and it's the way we're wired. The only thing I ask is... you know what, I'll just point to Move Bob:
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/the-big-picture/4719-Gender-Games

The nudity factor in Tera is just ridiculous. It really makes me not want to play the game at all, despite the fact I find the combat to be completely fun. I just can't stand all of these naked women running around, and then hearing that the most naked a female character can get is wearing plate armor at high levels. The MOST naked armor is PLATE. That doesn't even make sense!

Also, the jiggle physics are so bad. SO bad. NPCs standing still just looking around will suddenly have their boobs jiggle even though they are barely even moving. It's weird. It's really, really weird. And stupid.

I liked Mabinogi's solution to the "dress practically or fashionably?" dilemma.

--disclaimer: I haven't played the game in years, so this may not hold true anymore, but at the very least, it did when the game was first released in the U.S.--

In Mabi, your armor doesn't really matter. Seriously. You have the best armor in the game equipped? Good for you, you'll still die in three hits if you screw up. So, in the end, EVERYONE ends up dressing according to aesthetics. Also, I knew people who dungeoned ass naked because there was no point in letting your clothes take hits to their durability. They weren't protecting you and there was a chance you'd fuck them up when you repaired them, so it wasn't worth the risk. The same was sometimes true of weapons, too, matter of fact.

In that game, it was more important to grow your character's abilities and use them with the proper timing than it was to have the end game equipment set.

Good suggestion Shamus. I have some friends starting on Tera, and as an MMO I probably won't after a fallout with WoW, but if I did I'd want a feature as was offered to allow optional beachwear rather than mandatory.

DVS BSTrD:
Surely a practical full-body armor suit can be made to look sexy? And as for existing preferences, why not just have the same design, but with stronger materials?.

I really hope you're kidding here, it's funny if you think that the only problem with it is that women are showing skin. We actually don't need to look sexy all the time, you know. Certainly not when we are wearing a full suit of armor. I mean, really... really?

It does, however, bring up my thoughts on this:

What if I want to play a bad-ass? Seriously, I'm a girl, if I'm playing a game where I my character requires armor, I am obviously playing a game where combat is a major focus. This is not an "I want to look my prettiest" situation. I want to look like a friggin bad-ass. If I'm carrying a massive sword, I want to look like I might be strong enough to actually swing it and smart enough to protect my friggin midriff in a battle.

It's pretty obvious by the huge muscular men and hardcore armor that is so standard to most genres that men like to play games to feel like bad-asses. We do too! Why should we have to look sexy all the time? I like that feeling of getting off work and relaxing by turning into an online warrior too, you know. I just want to be able to look like one. Why can't women look hard too?

I quit WoW a while ago, but I played for years. Most of my characters were male just because they are the ones who get to actually look like they could battle. I loved my female Pally, but mostly because I found it hilarious and cute that her tiny frame would be swinging around this massive axe. She shouldn't look hilarious and cute - she should look awesome.

I agree completely with this article, but even if every game moving forward implemented this, it wouldn't fix anything. Male devs would just think what this guy thinks: "Surely a practical full-body armor suit can be made to look sexy?" ...and they start using the same armor with the 'skin' part swapped out for an 'armor-like' color and call it a day. Instead of choosing between sexy and badass (which is what it should be, ideally) we will simply be choosing which type of sexy we prefer. The way I see it, unless there is a major shift in the way armor models for women are thought about generally, there won't be any actual choice.

SWTOR has the same problem, only the inverse is true. There is a class dedicated to wearing skirts that go down to your ankles, and if you want the best armor you have to wear them.

I'm only up to lvl 9 but actually some of the males do dress like strippers too. There are 2 "Elf" (one is a straight up Elf, the other is an Elf with a tan and horns) races and both their males dress is super tight pants and an open shirt. That's only one outfit though, maybe the rest aren't like that at all. The female clothes on the other hand, less clothes makes you more powerful apparently.

This doesn't change anything imo, but just thought I'd make it clear that the fan service does swing (almost) both ways in TERA.

Dear Developers,

I will still buy your game if females are dressed for combat/cold weather. I like the female form. It's pretty and I would like it to stay that way, so please give them some real armor protect themselves with.

Thanks,

A Concerned Male Consumer

Shamus Young:
iron thong

I see you have played Kingdom Under Fire. Great game terrible outfits. Though at least it dresses up the most muscular guy there in basically a loincloth and 2 massive shoulder pads.

I think a lot of players are missing the point of this whole article.

It's not that there are skimpy armor options, it's that there isn't much customization when it comes to armor options. The look of "the best" armor in games won't be something that everyone likes, so it can put off some players. Saying that the stripper armor options shouldn't exist isn't exactly a good thing, and is probably just as bad as having to wear stripper armor in-game just because it has the best stats.

I like the image on page 2. I imagine every fellow there was thinking "dat ass". Normally i don't give a damn about the female characters because the longest MMOs i played are WoW and DDO. But then i don't remember what my raiding guild wore. Not even a vague description. I only remember what i wore because it looked just like what my healer wore and i helped him gear up. I can remember the beard style of my Dwarf though. Other than that appearance was very forgettable to me. Though if women get to to wear plate mail pasties(that's levels of absurd here to unheard of) want to be able to play my Dwarf warrior as a shirtless beer chuggung god of war.
*looks at warhammer online*
In a game that DOESN'T suck balls.
The appearance bit is sweeping over. Don't know if ToR has it and i don't care either. GW2 will have it in two forms. Being town armor(not the combat suit) and appearance changing. DDO(my go to MMO when i quit WoW) has it but last i checked it was pretty damn pathetic. Mainly because the only visible equipment are the hats/helms, armor, weapons. The default armor and the cosmetic stuff both suck. But...

Back on track like not a damn thing happened. I like LoTRO's setup as you have two cosmetic sets... That's the default right? My captain was a hold over from before F2P so i gots it all. Well you can have UP TO(maybe not big on LoTRO) cosmetic tabs. Pretty good setup. WoW, while i have not tried it(2 years clean) i do still have WoW wiki bookmarked. The limits seem pretty heavy. Its basically "you can change to anything provided it is of the same armor type". Mail to mail, plate to plate, no brewfest hats to paladin/warrior helms. Not very nice. It was a very limited concession in response to dropping subs. Guild wars has one. Again limited to the engine just like DDO. armor and head is all that can be seen. The only cosmetics are two piece sets. A body set(boots chest, gloves rolled into one item) and the head piece.

The cosmetic gear page is coming on strong as a result to most MMO developers remembering the pink, purple, turquoise, and paisley armor they may have been wearing back in WoW. Stats dictated what you would wear. They remember looking like a color blind clown pimp and they want to prevent that. While it was some comedy gold nostalgia content, its not something to be repeated. Until we get classic WoW servers.
*opens Google tab*
NO! staying clean.

As for Terra, the game has a certain race that had me checking over my shoulder for Chris Hansen every time i watched a beta video.

How about the fact that most women who play these games either don't mind the skimpy stuff, or actually enjoy it? Because frankly, skimpy outfits and sleeze are somewhat normal in Fantasy content, with Lord of the Rings being the only exception that I can think of.

I know a lot of women who play these games and like to dress their character up in fancy outfits and collect those. You know why they don't feel objectified by a pile of pixels? Because their character is NOT them, which is what roleplay is all about. You are PRETENDING to be somebody else.

I don't know any woman that wants to pretend she had an average figure and was wearing average clothes. Pretty much for the same reason that I don't want to play a roleplaying-game in which I am a bored office clerk.

After watching some vids I am not at all interested in Tera. The controls aside, the jiggling and moaning of the toons is pretty exaggerated. I'd almost want to play as an Elin just to look unslutty. Rather look like pedo bait than I'm from DoA.

Or a popori so I could be a badger or something.

Kahunaburger:

poiumty:

As for western MMOs... well, I can't remember any recent western MMO whose women are as scantily clad as TERA's.

Other than the Leia bikini in TOR, you mean?

I didn't notice a problem with bikini armor in TOR. But I'll take your word for it.

To use an analogy, the European and North American localizations of Tera are the equivalent of someone doing odd jobs on the weekend in order to supplement their weekly wage that they're earning in the South Korean market.

The fact is that they probably just don't care that some people will be offended by the inability to play a female character that doesn't resemble a tart. As they're making the safe bet of keeping their localisation costs to a minimum and marketing the game unashamedly as the South Korean MMORPG that it is rather than putting it back through development for what is undoubtedly a questionable gain.

Reading the title I got a picture in my head of a garden infested with hundreds of shirtless elves running around ruining everything, and a guy with pesticide trying to get rid of them... don't ask me why :-/

Anyway, back when I was playing Warhammer Online they used the same system for gear. There were some restrictions, but it worked pretty damn smoothly. I could fit my orc berserker (I think the technical term was "Choppa")with the latest best gear while still making it look like he was wearing his trusty lvl 1 loincloth. Because the one thing that beats a half naked elf is a half naked orc!

I always thought there was a technical reason to why MMOs didn't allow you more different looking gear. I got the impression that designing a new piece of gear was really bothersome and that they'd rather re-use an old model and work on something else instead. Which, if it's correct, is kind of hard to argue with. Still, I'm the kind of guy who cares a waaay too much about how my character looks, so the more games adopt smoother, more customizable systems for gear looks, the happier it's gonna make me ^^

I'm just going to throw out here that as a heterosexual girl, I'm DYING to play this MMO and the character design and clothing is one of the main reasons I want to do so.

Nurb:

Scrumpmonkey:
Actually i have heard of Tera, the biggest thing i heard about it is that is basically has a "Scantily Clad Loli" class. No seriosuly look;

imageimage

Yeahhhh... im not comfortable with whoever designed those. Stay the fuck away from me

It's an adult female of that fuzzy race, only with smaller boobies compared to the gazungas on the other characters. I think people are being too pedo-paranoid and games are a bit silly to get weirded out over considering most gamers have beaten and burned innocent people to death in GTA or Saints Row. But that's just me, I've never come across anything in a video game that "shocked" or weirded me out.

If anything it's more of an issue of sexual dimorphism.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BizarreSexualDimorphism

So beavers and cats and dogs are having sex with what appears to be pre-pubescent cat/bunny girls. I'm not laying down what I think on the matter, but you can clearly see why ANYONE would do a double take here. I mean.....its just......off. I wouldn't criticize someone for playing the game, but its perfectly reasonable at this point if people just want to distance themselves from this.

Exterminas:
How about the fact that most women who play these games either don't mind the skimpy stuff, or actually enjoy it? Because frankly, skimpy outfits and sleeze are somewhat normal in Fantasy content, with Lord of the Rings being the only exception that I can think of.

I know a lot of women who play these games and like to dress their character up in fancy outfits and collect those. You know why they don't feel objectified by a pile of pixels? Because their character is NOT them, which is what roleplay is all about. You are PRETENDING to be somebody else.

I don't know any woman that wants to pretend she had an average figure and was wearing average clothes. Pretty much for the same reason that I don't want to play a roleplaying-game in which I am a bored office clerk.

How about the fact that...

intheweeds:
I really hope you're kidding here, it's funny if you think that the only problem with it is that women are showing skin. We actually don't need to look sexy all the time, you know. Certainly not when we are wearing a full suit of armor. I mean, really... really?

It does, however, bring up my thoughts on this:

What if I want to play a bad-ass? Seriously, I'm a girl, if I'm playing a game where I my character requires armor, I am obviously playing a game where combat is a major focus. This is not an "I want to look my prettiest" situation. I want to look like a friggin bad-ass. If I'm carrying a massive sword, I want to look like I might be strong enough to actually swing it and smart enough to protect my friggin midriff in a battle.

It's pretty obvious by the huge muscular men and hardcore armor that is so standard to most genres that men like to play games to feel like bad-asses. We do too! Why should we have to look sexy all the time? I like that feeling of getting off work and relaxing by turning into an online warrior too, you know. I just want to be able to look like one. Why can't women look hard too?

I quit WoW a while ago, but I played for years. Most of my characters were male just because they are the ones who get to actually look like they could battle. I loved my female Pally, but mostly because I found it hilarious and cute that her tiny frame would be swinging around this massive axe. She shouldn't look hilarious and cute - she should look awesome.

I agree completely with this article, but even if every game moving forward implemented this, it wouldn't fix anything. Male devs would just think what this guy thinks: "Surely a practical full-body armor suit can be made to look sexy?" ...and they start using the same armor with the 'skin' part swapped out for an 'armor-like' color and call it a day. Instead of choosing between sexy and badass (which is what it should be, ideally) we will simply be choosing which type of sexy we prefer. The way I see it, unless there is a major shift in the way armor models for women are thought about generally, there won't be any actual choice.

I'm really surprised that the dev's don't see that this 'male demographic' excuse is a big vicious circle. Of course women aren't going to buy your games if they are aimed at men...so using that as an argument as to why you shouldn't consider female gamers in your design strategy is pretty ridiculous.

Also it's not as difficult as you think to make something accessible for both genders. You just have to put men and women on equal ground. We don't want much different than men in a power fantasy and that is why games like Mass Effect, Dragon Age and Skyrim are popular with women. It's just basically a gender switch. People often confront me and say well you can see that Miranda is pandering to men! Guess what! I don't care about Miranda because she's not the woman I'm playing as. I don't even notice the other women are excessively sexy because I'm straight. It would be like straight men seeing Kaiden walk in and saying 'Wow he's a hottie!'

Of course there is a limit to how much can make women feel uncomfortable. I don't think I could play Tera without cringing a lot and I would probably think less of men who had overly naked avatars.

*sigh*

This sort of stuff didn't used to bother me too much. I thought it was ridiculous, sure, and I'd laugh it off, but I never got offended or anything. But the older I get and the more games I play the more this starts to go beyond a joke and starts to genuinely piss me off.

For the record, I'm a red-blooded bisexual. I love a bit of boob. I've created characters who look like strippers before now. But when this becomes a major selling point of a game, and when I look at the comments on a video and see a load of comments along the lines of "LOL BOOBZ fapfapfap I LIKE TEH BOOBIES!!!!one1!!!"... yeah. This isn't even just a problem with jiggle physics or whatever, it happens on videos featuring, say, female games journalists who are wearing totally unrevealing clothing and whatever, you get my point.

Seriously, gaming*: grow up.

(*obligatory disclaimer: the vocal, juvenile elements of gaming who ruin things for the rest of us and, unfortunately, tend to represent us in the minds of the general public)

EDIT: Off-topic, but does anyone else cringe when they see the word "boobies" used in a sexual context? In my mind, it's what young kids call breasts before they're really aware of sex. Kind of like "willy" for penis. But I digress :P

I was thinking about slightly different approach
Allow players to modify their armor pieces (for additional cost to blacksmith/armory/etc.)
Color and shape (so that you can modify the looks of it, but other players can still vaguely tell what you are wearing)

Actually, I noticed only two things in the second video (the first was unavailable when I tried to watch it):

1. The humanoid characters in Tera look downright awful

2. TRANSWARP GRYPHON!!

After that second realization I could not concentrate anymore.

Scrumpmonkey:
Yeahhhh... im not comfortable with whoever designed those. Stay the fuck away from me

Dont you understand that because she has fox ears she's not human, and therefor it's totally okay for her to look like a 6-year old prostitute.

It's like, common knowledge.

This kind of design for females would solve all controversies with a pinch of realism.

image

....564 reasons why we will not see such design in games....565, 566...

Shamus Young:
The Half-Naked Elf Problem

Yes, this is an old issue. Humor me. I know how to fix this.

Read Full Article

If you want to have an adult conversation about a mature issue, I wouldn't start your article with "The unfortunately named Bluehole Studio."

That's just me.

Nurb:

Scrumpmonkey:
Actually i have heard of Tera, the biggest thing i heard about it is that is basically has a "Scantily Clad Loli" class. No seriosuly look;

imageimage

Yeahhhh... im not comfortable with whoever designed those. Stay the fuck away from me

It's an adult female of that fuzzy race, only with smaller boobies compared to the gazungas on the other characters. I think people are being too pedo-paranoid and games are a bit silly to get weirded out over considering most gamers have beaten and burned innocent people to death in GTA or Saints Row. But that's just me, I've never come across anything in a video game that "shocked" or weirded me out.

If anything it's more of an issue of sexual dimorphism.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BizarreSexualDimorphism

Oh, because the developer says it's not a child, it's not a child? Pfft, no. That is obviously pedo food for those among us who are sick enough to be attracted to children. It doesn't matter if they sau they are 100 or 10000--they are designed in a sexual way and they resemble children. Anyone with eyes can see through whatever excuses they wanna use there.

Sad fact: MMOs are a hotspot for paedophiles. Spend ten minutes reading general chat in any MMO and brace yourself for vomiting. The developers are obviously pandering to a sick, sick crowed. For that alone I hope this fails.

"Some guys don't want to have to be ashamed of their videogame of choice because it looks like cheap, pandering trash."
This, this and THIS again.
My problem with this topic summed up in 1 sentence.

frobisher:
This kind of design for females would solve all controversies with a pinch of realism.

image

....564 reasons why we will not see such design in games....565, 566...

Honestly, the fact that vidya gaems are less willing to feature practically-dressed female characters than an HBO show never ceases to astound me.

lesterley:
I think I just talked about this last week in my cartoon:
http://www.serialmmogamy.com

I think I would be more comfortable with the sexual objectification of an MMO avatar if it was an equal-opportunity objectification. If YOU can have the choice of playing a half-naked FEMALE avatar, why am I not given the opportunity to play a half-naked MALE avatar?

Leslee

http://tera-online.cc/uploads/gallery/main/55/castanic_m_h01.jpg
This is heavy armor.
Heavy. Armor.

http://tera-online.cc/uploads/gallery/main/62/highelf_m_r00.jpg
http://tera-online.cc/uploads/gallery/main/89/aman_m_no-armor.jpg
http://tera-online.cc/uploads/gallery/main/45/aman_m_l01a.jpg

There's plenty of fanservice flowing both ways, but a part of the issue here is what our genders look for when determining what we think of as attractive. Men tend to value physical appearance more, women tend to value success and confidence more. The equipment speaks to this to a certain degree, although there's certainly examples of skimpy armor on men and more regal looking armor on women.

http://tera-online.cc/uploads/gallery/main/64/human_f_h20.jpg
http://tera-online.cc/uploads/gallery/main/52/castanic_f_h21.jpg
http://tera-online.cc/uploads/gallery/main/43/aman_f_h21.jpg

Honestly, though - the market will speak. You can crusade for all of the moral values you like, talk about how gaming needs to 'grow up' to be taken seriously (because no serious grown-up industry uses sexuality to try and sell it's products, like say, cars), and complain about how this sort of thing only reinforces negative stereotypes... but at the end of the day, when someone looks at the promotional art for this game, they know what they're getting: thin, attractive women and burly, overmuscled men. It's a stylistic choice, just like how LotR wants to make itself very moderate and realistic, and how WoW wants to be a colorful high fantasy where your strength is directly proportionate to the size of your shoulder pads.

shadowform:

lesterley:
I think I just talked about this last week in my cartoon:
http://www.serialmmogamy.com

I think I would be more comfortable with the sexual objectification of an MMO avatar if it was an equal-opportunity objectification. If YOU can have the choice of playing a half-naked FEMALE avatar, why am I not given the opportunity to play a half-naked MALE avatar?

Leslee

http://tera-online.cc/uploads/gallery/main/55/castanic_m_h01.jpg
This is heavy armor.
Heavy. Armor.

http://tera-online.cc/uploads/gallery/main/62/highelf_m_r00.jpg
http://tera-online.cc/uploads/gallery/main/89/aman_m_no-armor.jpg
http://tera-online.cc/uploads/gallery/main/45/aman_m_l01a.jpg

There's plenty of fanservice flowing both ways, but a part of the issue here is what our genders look for when determining what we think of as attractive. Men tend to value physical appearance more, women tend to value success and confidence more. The equipment speaks to this to a certain degree, although there's certainly examples of skimpy armor on men and more regal looking armor on women.

http://tera-online.cc/uploads/gallery/main/64/human_f_h20.jpg
http://tera-online.cc/uploads/gallery/main/52/castanic_f_h21.jpg
http://tera-online.cc/uploads/gallery/main/43/aman_f_h21.jpg

Honestly, though - the market will speak. You can crusade for all of the moral values you like, talk about how gaming needs to 'grow up' to be taken seriously (because no serious grown-up industry uses sexuality to try and sell it's products, like say, cars), and complain about how this sort of thing only reinforces negative stereotypes... but at the end of the day, when someone looks at the promotional art for this game, they know what they're getting: thin, attractive women and burly, overmuscled men. It's a stylistic choice, just like how LotR wants to make itself very moderate and realistic, and how WoW wants to be a colorful high fantasy where your strength is directly proportionate to the size of your shoulder pads.

I think I love you for this post. I swear half the people in this thread are ignoring that Tera online treats everyone like a sex object. Which is the style of the game, if you don't enjoy the style of the game, don't play it. I certainly don't.

In regards to games that aren't Tera online, valid points all around. Although if a game ever does let you disguise what you're wearing in PVP it deserves to burn.

xXxJessicaxXx:
Of course women aren't going to buy your games if they are aimed at men.

That's something of a hypocrisy there. You are an avid supporter of abandoning gender norms and treating women and men as equal beings (not, for example, having one be a muscle bound hero in battle armour and another in a bikini make squeaks every time they are hit). At least that's what I've gathered from reading some of your posts and I definitely agree. But you can't have it both ways; you can't take issue with a developer making overly sexual female characters and then say something like "Of course women aren't going to buy your games if they are aimed at men."

You are, in effect, creating your own gender roles. Who says this design is for men? Women can't want this? Women won't buy a game because sexy female characters are in it? Aren't you making assumptions based on your own perception of gender and bias? Isn't you saying 'this sort of thing' is for men, just as bad as anything this game has done?

I think you've gone to the opposite end of the extreme scale; you're so against something that you have become just as bad. Not that this is an attack, though. Trust me. I'm on your side.

Grey Day for Elcia:

xXxJessicaxXx:
Of course women aren't going to buy your games if they are aimed at men.

That's something of a hypocrisy there. You are an avid supporter of abandoning gender norms and treating women and men as equal beings (not, for example, having one be a muscle bound hero in battle armour and another in a bikini make squeaks every time they are hit). At least that's what I've gathered from reading some of your posts and I definitely agree. But you can't have it both ways; you can't take issue with a developer making overly sexual female characters and then say something like "Of course women aren't going to buy your games if they are aimed at men."

You are, in effect, creating your own gender roles. Who says this design is for men? Women can't want this? Women won't buy a game because sexy female characters are in it? Aren't you making assumptions based on your own perception of gender and bias? Isn't you saying 'this sort of thing' is for men, just as bad as anything this game has done?

I think you've gone to the opposite end of the extreme scale; you're so against something that you have become just as bad. Not that this is an attack, though. Trust me. I'm on your side.

Not really I mean personally Jiggling boobies and ridiculous armour on women does suggest to a female audience that this game isn't for them. It wouldn't take a lot for dev's to stop acting like their audience is a load of 12 year old boys.

I personally find that the things the article mentions makes me feel uncomfortable. I'm sure there are women who don't but I don't think treating women like they are serious heroes instead of eye candy for the men playing would be that big of a jump. Like the article suggests a CHOICE would be nice.

Kingdom's of Amalur, which is an otherwise great game pretty much treats the female character like a guy who has chosen a nice butt to look at. Prominent female characters flirt with you and there isn't a single instance where a guy so much as calls you pretty. Now okay I have no problem playing as a lesbian if that's what the devs wanted but surely not everyone else in the world would be?

It's things like that I think that takes the majority of women out of the game and says to them 'This wasn't made for you.'

Has anyone here played Phantasy Star? Whether it be Phantasy Star 'Online', Phantasy Star 'Universe' or the trilogy of Phantasy Star 'Portable' games?

For YEARS, appearance in those games have been different from armour. Being a sci-fi game, they've taken the rather neat step of the armour and stat boosting items being energy shields or 'Shield-Weaves' and then you're free to wear whatever you like on top from the massive range of customizable clothing.

Whole segments of the community just play it for the dress-up aspect!

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