The Half-Naked Elf Problem

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Yeah, I know there's more than a few girls out there, but I've a friend who used to do the whole "be a girl in game to get free shit" thing. I also play Combat Arms, so yeah, I know the extent of the stupidity that happens. (at least CoD doesn't have megaphones...)

I personally prefer LotRO myself, those monthly payments just aren't for me, especially seeing as I haven't touched LotRO in weeks. I'm not sure if LOTRO even has any stripper armor, now that I think about it... But it does have an awesome cosmetic feature. In real life, I don't much care what I look like, but I put time and effort into making my LOTRO guys look badass.

Moromillas:

animehermit:

Eamar:

Totally agree, character models are a major problem, perhaps more so than the outfits. Something that bugs me in particular is the lack of variety (again, it all comes down to choice). While still limited in many cases, there does tend to be a lot more variation in male body types in games (compare males and females here: http://en.playpw.com/heroes.html )I can totally understand some people wanting to play as a supermodel lookalike, but I'd prefer my characters to look like they can handle the weapons they're supposed to be using. My personal preference would be for powerful, muscular females who looked more like elite athletes than models.

I think TOR, and for the most part, Bioware RPGs in general do this pretty well.

In TOR there are 4 male and female body types: small, regular or supermodel, Amazon, and finally curvy, which mirrors the male counterparts :P.

TOR actually has the same problem as Tera.

I wasn't aware TOR had sexualized children in it.

animehermit:

Just because Tera's character are ALL dressed scantily doesn't really excuse it's treatment of female characters and, the bigger point, the sexualization of children. Most gamers don't really have an issue with sexy female characters, for the most part, it's starting to disappear. People have an issue with Tera because it has an over-sexualized little girl race.

"Most gamers" obviously not referring to the last 5 pages of posts? It is still an issue... far as I can tell, anyway.

While Shamus didn't explicitly mention the Elin in his article, they certainly are a lightning rod for such controversy, but I was scolded not long ago that the point of this discussion was the chainmail bikinis and the like in general; not a particular race in a particular game.

But to humor you, yes, they are overly-sexualized, just like every other race in there, even the males... the Popori may be an exception, but I'm sure fur-suiters don't mind them. :P

But seriously, read a bit more, and you'll see plenty of Escapists taking issue to the humans, high elves, castanics and amani of Tera "dressing like sluts"- not just the Elin. ^_^;

I have an issue with this whole thread... even getting off the original topic of female over sexualization in video games.

Kahunaburger is the lead one for this, I showed this thread and his comments ot my Korean room mate who is a quiet 22 year old female exchange student. All she could say is why is he so racist toward my culture?

And Kuhuna and other like him(her?) are. Korean culture is not American. They have much different views on what is acceptable sexually then Americans do. (to a lesser extent Canadians and Europeans but Americans tend to go right off the prude scale quite easily)

Now before Kahunaburger starts yelling I support paedos or somesuch. I don't. I think paedophiles should be executed. If found guilty beyond doubt, bullet to the head.

I'm also aware not everyone thinks like me, or every culture is the same as mine.

So I disprove of paedophilia? Yes I do. DO I think the makers of Tera are pandering to paedos with that loli foxgirl crap? No. and anyone who blindly screams they are is a fucking idiot at best or a fucking idiot racist at worst.

Try and keep some perspectives here people and realize not every human on the planet views things the same way as you do.

I'm curious to see the ratio of Americans to either Canadians, Europeans or asians in this thread. I think it would be kind of interesting and telling in some ways.

animehermit:

Moromillas:

animehermit:

I think TOR, and for the most part, Bioware RPGs in general do this pretty well.

In TOR there are 4 male and female body types: small, regular or supermodel, Amazon, and finally curvy, which mirrors the male counterparts :P.

TOR actually has the same problem as Tera.

I wasn't aware TOR had sexualized children in it.

Not the off-topic pedo thought crime bashing thing, but the limited armor choices mentioned in the article.

In TOR there's one class where pants are difficult to find, and have a vast amount of skirts that go down to your ankles. There is custom armor that you can stick mods in, sure, but if you want "the best" armor you have to wear one of these skirts that completely covers your lower shins.

AppleShrapnel:

animehermit:

Just because Tera's character are ALL dressed scantily doesn't really excuse it's treatment of female characters and, the bigger point, the sexualization of children. Most gamers don't really have an issue with sexy female characters, for the most part, it's starting to disappear. People have an issue with Tera because it has an over-sexualized little girl race.

"Most gamers" obviously not referring to the last 5 pages of posts? It is still an issue... far as I can tell, anyway.

While Shamus didn't explicitly mention the Elin in his article, they certainly are a lightning rod for such controversy, but I was scolded not long ago that the point of this discussion was the chainmail bikinis and the like in general; not a particular race in a particular game.

But to humor you, yes, they are overly-sexualized, just like every other race in there, even the males... the Popori may be an exception, but I'm sure fur-suiters don't mind them. :P

But seriously, read a bit more, and you'll see plenty of Escapists taking issue to the humans, high elves, castanics and amani of Tera "dressing like sluts"- not just the Elin. ^_^;

That sentence got a bit garbled from brain to page. Like I mentioned, it IS disappearing, big western games are moving away from it, mostly because it's a negative stereotype.

and like I said, just because it sexualizes every other race, DOESN'T excuse this kind of disgusting designs.

Purplecoyote:
I'm just going to throw out here that as a heterosexual girl, I'm DYING to play this MMO and the character design and clothing is one of the main reasons I want to do so.

Really? You even like the Loli stuff? Well, good on you I guess, but as a heterosexual guy I don't want a game to be so fucking stupid.

Seriously, have some integrity.

Sorry, that sounded insulting, I only mean, well, don't play a game with such shitty morals.

Moromillas:

animehermit:

Moromillas:

TOR actually has the same problem as Tera.

I wasn't aware TOR had sexualized children in it.

Not the off-topic pedo thought crime bashing thing, but the limited armor choices mentioned in the article.

In TOR there's one class where pants are difficult to find, and have a vast amount of skirts that go down to your ankles. There is custom armor that you can stick mods in, sure, but if you want "the best" armor you have to wear one of these skirts that completely covers your lower shins.

Nope, that isn't true, if you want to wear pants, it's pretty easy to find a piece of customizable gear that's a pair of pants. and the new "best armor" can have mods removed to be placed in any other piece that can be modded.

TOR has a vast variety of armor choices you can make, and it's even bigger if you're one of the light armor types that usually wear long dresses.

Scrumpmonkey:
Actually i have heard of Tera, the biggest thing i heard about it is that is basically has a "Scantily Clad Loli" class. No seriosuly look;

imageimage

Yeahhhh... im not comfortable with whoever designed those. Stay the fuck away from me

Ok, that is wrong on SO many levels. That is n't even armor,thats just tissue-paper spraypainted silver and glued to spandex.

Ashannon Blackthorn:
I have an issue with this whole thread... even getting off the original topic of female over sexualization in video games.

Kahunaburger is the lead one for this, I showed this thread and his comments ot my Korean room mate who is a quiet 22 year old female exchange student. All she could say is why is he so racist toward my culture?

And Kuhuna and other like him(her?) are. Korean culture is not American. They have much different views on what is acceptable sexually then Americans do. (to a lesser extent Canadians and Europeans but Americans tend to go right off the prude scale quite easily)

Now before Kahunaburger starts yelling I support paedos or somesuch. I don't. I think paedophiles should be executed. If found guilty beyond doubt, bullet to the head.

I'm also aware not everyone thinks like me, or every culture is the same as mine.

So I disprove of paedophilia? Yes I do. DO I think the makers of Tera are pandering to paedos with that loli foxgirl crap? No. and anyone who blindly screams they are is a fucking idiot at best or a fucking idiot racist at worst.

Try and keep some perspectives here people and realize not every human on the planet views things the same way as you do.

I'm curious to see the ratio of Americans to either Canadians, Europeans or asians in this thread. I think it would be kind of interesting and telling in some ways.

Well, the game features little girls in outfits that are commonly used by adult females to appear sexually attractive. Therefore, it is trying to appeal to people who find little girls attractive. That's just logic.

I'm pretty sure Asian people don't think it's acceptable to think little children are sexually attracitve. (although actually I think it's allright to THINK it, but I don't think it's ok to act on it, for example by making a game that features scantly clad little girls.)

And if they do, well, I hate to break it to you, mate, but that it NOT OK.

Ashannon Blackthorn:
I have an issue with this whole thread... even getting off the original topic of female over sexualization in video games.

Kahunaburger is the lead one for this, I showed this thread and his comments ot my Korean room mate who is a quiet 22 year old female exchange student. All she could say is why is he so racist toward my culture?

And Kuhuna and other like him(her?) are. Korean culture is not American. They have much different views on what is acceptable sexually then Americans do. (to a lesser extent Canadians and Europeans but Americans tend to go right off the prude scale quite easily)

Now before Kahunaburger starts yelling I support paedos or somesuch. I don't. I think paedophiles should be executed. If found guilty beyond doubt, bullet to the head.

I'm also aware not everyone thinks like me, or every culture is the same as mine.

So I disprove of paedophilia? Yes I do. DO I think the makers of Tera are pandering to paedos with that loli foxgirl crap? No. and anyone who blindly screams they are is a fucking idiot at best or a fucking idiot racist at worst.

Try and keep some perspectives here people and realize not every human on the planet views things the same way as you do.

I'm curious to see the ratio of Americans to either Canadians, Europeans or asians in this thread. I think it would be kind of interesting and telling in some ways.

It's a little ironic that you say this a very cultural issue for Koreans, but fail to understand that this kind of content isn't acceptable to MANY MANY westerners.

animehermit:

That sentence got a bit garbled from brain to page. Like I mentioned, it IS disappearing, big western games are moving away from it, mostly because it's a negative stereotype.

and like I said, just because it sexualizes every other race, DOESN'T excuse this kind of disgusting designs.

Ah, I see where you're coming from now. :P Yes, the first point can be easily illustrated with the Elin, of all things. In Tera's Westernization process, the Elin were toned down a bit, while leaving the other races completely untouched... http://www.bitgamer.su/imagebucket/Elin-2.jpeg End results are kinda fugly, though. A huge chunk of the fanbase cried foul, and En Masse ended up closing threads speaking against it. May have even banned a few people, wouldn't surprise me.

I guess that's more an example of good intentions with poor implementation than anything else, iddnit? 'Course, now I'm kinda worried how Blade & Soul and Kingdom Under Fire II are gonna get localized. ._.

But now that you mention it, you have a point... where're all the smexy women at in our games? D:/ (j/k j/k... sheesh)

I'd beg to differ on Tera's characters being of "disgusting designs", but... meh, that's just a clash of opinions, and no real winner emerges from that kind of fight. :P

animehermit:

Moromillas:

animehermit:

I wasn't aware TOR had sexualized children in it.

Not the off-topic pedo thought crime bashing thing, but the limited armor choices mentioned in the article.

In TOR there's one class where pants are difficult to find, and have a vast amount of skirts that go down to your ankles. There is custom armor that you can stick mods in, sure, but if you want "the best" armor you have to wear one of these skirts that completely covers your lower shins.

Nope, that isn't true, if you want to wear pants, it's pretty easy to find a piece of customizable gear that's a pair of pants. and the new "best armor" can have mods removed to be placed in any other piece that can be modded.

TOR has a vast variety of armor choices you can make, and it's even bigger if you're one of the light armor types that usually wear long dresses.

Incorrect.

The armor you're talking about doesn't have augment slots, and is not the "best armor." The only light leg armor that have augments, are all re-textured ankle skirts.

RvLeshrac:
LOTRO has the least-revealing outfits of any game I've played, MMO or otherwise, for female characters. There are some outfits that are slightly more revealing than others (low-cut dresses), but you probably wouldn't be wearing a ball gown into combat.

You havn't played SWTOR, obviously.

Honestly, Tera does kind of push the limits of sanity with its outfits. The boob jiggle physics are amusing, though. Also, the Elin race is wrong on several levels in my opinion.

Heh...I should probably read threads. But yeah...elin...funny.

Moromillas:

animehermit:

Moromillas:

Not the off-topic pedo thought crime bashing thing, but the limited armor choices mentioned in the article.

In TOR there's one class where pants are difficult to find, and have a vast amount of skirts that go down to your ankles. There is custom armor that you can stick mods in, sure, but if you want "the best" armor you have to wear one of these skirts that completely covers your lower shins.

Nope, that isn't true, if you want to wear pants, it's pretty easy to find a piece of customizable gear that's a pair of pants. and the new "best armor" can have mods removed to be placed in any other piece that can be modded.

TOR has a vast variety of armor choices you can make, and it's even bigger if you're one of the light armor types that usually wear long dresses.

Incorrect.

The armor you're talking about doesn't have augment slots, and is not the "best armor." The only light leg armor that have augments, are all re-textured ankle skirts.

That "best armor" isn't needed to see all of the content of the game, and is only really gonna sought after by the min/maxers. even then any new orange gear is gonna be able to RE it to get the craftable version of it. That includes the pants that come with the contamination set you get for doing the rakghoul event. They nerfed augments pretty hard in 1.2 and many people just aren't gonna bother with it.

I'm not sure why you're railing on TOR for having 1 class that wears dress robes all the time though, it's meant to represent a certain class type from traditional RPGs, which always had the wizard characters wearing robes.

Cecilthedarkknight_234:
Oh I am just loving the moral fag butt-hurt level in this thread. Guess what people this game was developed in South Korea for the people there get over it, you don't like it then don't play it. We are not or never intended to be the target audience for this game. Oh boy... I love the butt-hurt tears so much. On a different note I hate mmo's so I don't care how many loli's they throw at me the majority of those type of games are s*** to begin with and this includes WoW

You should really try harder next time, I don't think everyone quite got your point yet.

animehermit:

Cecilthedarkknight_234:
Oh I am just loving the moral fag butt-hurt level in this thread. Guess what people this game was developed in South Korea for the people there get over it, you don't like it then don't play it. We are not or never intended to be the target audience for this game. Oh boy... I love the butt-hurt tears so much. On a different note I hate mmo's so I don't care how many loli's they throw at me the majority of those type of games are s*** to begin with and this includes WoW

You should really try harder next time, I don't think everyone quite got your point yet.

maybe i should be that would require effort on my end and I am to drunk/lazy to do so lol

"Half-naked Elf problem"...that sentence doesn't make sense. Unless you mean "Half-naked Elf problem...because there isn't enough half-naked elves" :P
How is it that over macho men, or overly muscular or rough men don't "break the story or the game b/c of what they are wearing" yet people say it happens with women?
As a woman, I like my women dressed sexy-like. If I'm gunna play as a female I want her to be good look and showing it off. (but that's my preference)

Scrustle:
It's sad that this is still an issue. Gaming really needs to grow out of it. I hate all these BDSM looking female characters in games. It doesn't do anything to dispel the gamer stereotype of us all being perverted basement dwelling virgins.

But I don't really like the system of wearing one set of clothing but appearing to wear another. It just seems to make itself redundant to me. Why bother making different sets of armour with different stats if you can just ignore the stats and wear whatever you want? Maybe it would be best if there was some sort of system where what you wear isn't connected to your armour stats at all. Maybe you could make it so all armour sets have no effect on their own, but all have enchantment slots in which you can place magic gems or something which give the item the stats you want. That sounds like a workable system which makes sense to me.

EDIT: This idea is going somewhere... It could also be organised in a way that there are different classes of armour and only certain types of gems can be put in to certain classes of armour. That way you don't get people walking around in magic robes that give the same armour ratings as the biggest beefiest platemail, etc. That could be seen as a bit too restrictive, but I think it just makes sense and wouldn't unbalance the game. And so that it makes sense to unlock "better" armour as you level up, higher level armour could have more slots for these gems than lower level stuff. But there would also be an option to add extra slots to lower level armour if you wanted to keep with that style. The ability to unlock these extra slots correlate with the unlocking of higher level armour.

If that system was in a game I think it would be totally awesome. If there's anyone here planning on making an MMO/RPG any time soon then feel free to steal my ideas, because I know I won't be using them.

What would be the point of that system, though? You'd still be collecting new armor sets that are more powerful as ones from before. Just now, you'd have another layer of menus to go through and a few more minutes added to the process of improving armor.
Weapons and armor exist as they do now in games because they're one of the many carrots dangled in front of the player's nose to keep them going. The look of an epic new armor set and the high stats it promises is as enticing as any level up or awesome skill or big boss to take down. Take that out and what are you left with?

I hate the fact that I'm forced to look a certain way, though. That's the point here. If I'm wearing Badass Bone Armor, I look exactly like every other high level dude wearing the same armor. And what if I just started collecting a set of Enchanted Green Leather Armor? Now my pants are layered, studded green leather with bits of fur here and there and everything else is massive, dark skeleton-looking gear. But should I dare take the pants off or try to mix it with weaker but more fitting gear, I lose out on a lot of really good stats and buffs.

I hate looking bad in an MMO. I want my character to look a certain way, and I don't care if that changes as I go because I find more armor that looks cool and works together. The look AND stats of armor can still be enticing in a system where you can appear to be wearing anything. In fact, I'd say it only enhances the desire to obtain more armor, because you might want to look for lower level armor to improve your appearance, whereas otherwise you'd just sell that armor to the nearest NPC without that system in place.

MorganL4:
The method Shamus just mentioned has been in place for DC Universe Online for a REALLY long time

Not the only MMO either. Age of Conan had this from launch and made a minor fuss about it as well...but they also made a fuss about it having tits so I guess that off-sets it.

I do like player characters to be both available in male and female forms. I totally do not get the point of having pandas or other furries in my fantasy MMORPG, and I have little sympathies for furries running around doing furry stuff in my online fantasy world demanding a monthly paying fee for taking part in somebody else's twisted furry fantasies.

When I am playing as a female, as I normally do since I cannot relate much to a male hunk, and staring at his ass move gets really boring after, say, five minutes or so.

The only thing I really care about is that I can make use of the stuff I find/loot/buy/create without ever feeling discriminated because of gender.

Fallout: New Vegas had me destroy the whole Roman camp mainly because the Neo-Roman head honcho was a sexist twat, and because I was locked out of the arena. I also felt an urge to basically murder/maim/nuke the jailers and really hate just about everyone on The Strip - and beyond.

I don't really mind if TERA has jiggly physics, as long as it does not degrade the overall performance of the game. Yes, you are bound to find female characters bouncing a whole lot more than they should, and you are bound to find female avatars strangely standing still for an embarrassingly long time, but that's life and hormones to you.

I feel the need to say that, even though I am very open and accepting, adding "Asian devs and artists" to the mixture of life and hormones does tend to get well into severely messed up and wrong territory in just about no time. Sometimes, I wonder how reproduction rates remain stable in, say, South Korea or certain cities in Japan.

as someone mentioned, rift does this good. (my female rouge seemed to be wearing a trenchcoat for most of her time, and then i swapped to full body leather armor... actually full body minus the helmet) has a good amount of sensible armor for both sexes.

But as people have proven, sex sells.

also on a second note, by recollection guild wars had quite a bit of non-revealing armor, but it had revealing stuff too.

animehermit:

Moromillas:

animehermit:

Nope, that isn't true, if you want to wear pants, it's pretty easy to find a piece of customizable gear that's a pair of pants. and the new "best armor" can have mods removed to be placed in any other piece that can be modded.

TOR has a vast variety of armor choices you can make, and it's even bigger if you're one of the light armor types that usually wear long dresses.

Incorrect.

The armor you're talking about doesn't have augment slots, and is not the "best armor." The only light leg armor that have augments, are all re-textured ankle skirts.

That "best armor" isn't needed to see all of the content of the game, and is only really gonna sought after by the min/maxers. even then any new orange gear is gonna be able to RE it to get the craftable version of it. That includes the pants that come with the contamination set you get for doing the rakghoul event. They nerfed augments pretty hard in 1.2 and many people just aren't gonna bother with it.

I'm not sure why you're railing on TOR for having 1 class that wears dress robes all the time though, it's meant to represent a certain class type from traditional RPGs, which always had the wizard characters wearing robes.

Again, this is incorrect. You don't get craftables from RE custom gear. Just because it's not a requirement doesn't mean it should be overlooked, especially when it is the best there is.

No. No no no, I support TOR as I have done from launch. What I don't support is restricting player choices and only catering to this tiny part of what is a very large and diverse demographic. Too many assumptions.

Not just the pants slot, they gave Artifice a grand total of 2 (yes 2) schematics with which to craft sabers with augments, and they both look like unshaven ass imo.

Moromillas:

Again, this is incorrect. You don't get craftables from RE custom gear. Just because it's not a requirement doesn't mean it should be overlooked, especially when it is the best there is.

No. No no no, I support TOR as I have done from launch. What I don't support is restricting player choices and only catering to this tiny part of what is a very large and diverse demographic. Too many assumptions.

Not just the pants slot, they gave Artifice a grand total of 2 (yes 2) schematics with which to craft sabers with augments, and they both look like unshaven ass imo.

It's the best by a VERY tiny margin. Most players who care that much about looks won't mind taking up some social gear if they want to wear pants. In fact you could argue that since light armor classes have access to orange belts, that they actually have a stat advantage over non-light armor wearing classes. It's a pretty minor nit-pick in the grand scheme of things though. I will say this, since 1.2 I have not seen any two people of the same class look the same. Which is something I think more MMO's should strive for.

on Artifice, i'm pretty sure the class was intended to be used for the crystals they make. Which is why they're limited in the saber making department. Purple crystals sell for about half a million credits, I'm sure artificers can live with that.

Ashannon Blackthorn:
I have an issue with this whole thread... even getting off the original topic of female over sexualization in video games.

Kahunaburger is the lead one for this, I showed this thread and his comments ot my Korean room mate who is a quiet 22 year old female exchange student. All she could say is why is he so racist toward my culture?

And Kuhuna and other like him(her?) are. Korean culture is not American. They have much different views on what is acceptable sexually then Americans do. (to a lesser extent Canadians and Europeans but Americans tend to go right off the prude scale quite easily)

Sounds like your alleged roommate is a little over-sensitive, there. I highly doubt that this sort of pedo crap is mainstream in Korea. Disliking sexual abuse of minors and imagery that evokes sexual abuse of minors isn't being a "prude," it's being a decent human being. That's true regardless of where you're from.

Kahunaburger:

Ashannon Blackthorn:
I have an issue with this whole thread... even getting off the original topic of female over sexualization in video games.

Kahunaburger is the lead one for this, I showed this thread and his comments ot my Korean room mate who is a quiet 22 year old female exchange student. All she could say is why is he so racist toward my culture?

And Kuhuna and other like him(her?) are. Korean culture is not American. They have much different views on what is acceptable sexually then Americans do. (to a lesser extent Canadians and Europeans but Americans tend to go right off the prude scale quite easily)

Sounds like your alleged roommate is a little over-sensitive, there. I highly doubt that this sort of pedo crap is mainstream in Korea. Disliking sexual abuse of minors and imagery that evokes sexual abuse of minors isn't being a "prude," it's being a decent human being. That's true regardless of where you're from.

I disagree with a lot of what you have to say most of the time, but I agree here, this is pretty unacceptable. It shocks me more than a little that they would even consider releasing this game here. Ultimately this kind of thing can only hurt the game's sales potential, as soon as people see the loli characters, it's gonna be a no-buy.

Perhaps it speaks to how prudish the gaming community is when it comes to matters of sexuality that a fantasy game that happens to have skimpy outfits is somehow more objectionable than games like GTA or Serious Sam that encourage mass genocide in the game world.

I'd be the last person to impose my aesthetic sensibilities on somebody else, but the guys who like to pretend that they have the moral and intellectual superiority to decry the people who play this game because of the art style really reek of hypocrites to me; They demand practical armours and believable combat when Serious Sam goes to work in undershirt and slaughters masses of enemies with a gatling from an A-10C Thunderbolt II.

Not your thing? Fair enough, but don't be that quick to judge the guys who think the art-style is their cup of tea.

animehermit:

Kahunaburger:

Ashannon Blackthorn:
I have an issue with this whole thread... even getting off the original topic of female over sexualization in video games.

Kahunaburger is the lead one for this, I showed this thread and his comments ot my Korean room mate who is a quiet 22 year old female exchange student. All she could say is why is he so racist toward my culture?

And Kuhuna and other like him(her?) are. Korean culture is not American. They have much different views on what is acceptable sexually then Americans do. (to a lesser extent Canadians and Europeans but Americans tend to go right off the prude scale quite easily)

Sounds like your alleged roommate is a little over-sensitive, there. I highly doubt that this sort of pedo crap is mainstream in Korea. Disliking sexual abuse of minors and imagery that evokes sexual abuse of minors isn't being a "prude," it's being a decent human being. That's true regardless of where you're from.

I disagree with a lot of what you have to say most of the time, but I agree here, this is pretty unacceptable. It shocks me more than a little that they would even consider releasing this game here. Ultimately this kind of thing can only hurt the game's sales potential, as soon as people see the loli characters, it's gonna be a no-buy.

Yeah, it's bizarre on multiple levels.

I'm honestly mostly shocked at how many people are crawling out of the woodwork to defend this stuff. I mean, we at the Escapist may disagree about things like the Mass Effect 3 ending, the state of modern RPGs, and whether games are art or not, but I'm dumbfounded that we can't all agree that sexualized portrayals of children are bad.

Kahunaburger:

Yeah, it's bizarre on multiple levels.

I'm honestly mostly shocked at how many people are crawling out of the woodwork to defend this stuff. I mean, we at the Escapist may disagree about things like the Mass Effect 3 ending, the state of modern RPGs, and whether games are art or not, but I'm dumbfounded that we can't all agree that sexualized portrayals of children are bad.

It's not-so-much women I have the big issue with, it's children, or characters that are meant to appear as children. Sexuality can and should be used, but only in the right context and with maturity.

EDIT: for some reason i thought you said women instead of children. It's late >.<

animehermit:

Kahunaburger:

Yeah, it's bizarre on multiple levels.

I'm honestly mostly shocked at how many people are crawling out of the woodwork to defend this stuff. I mean, we at the Escapist may disagree about things like the Mass Effect 3 ending, the state of modern RPGs, and whether games are art or not, but I'm dumbfounded that we can't all agree that sexualized portrayals of children are bad.

It's not-so-much women I have the big issue with, it's children, or characters that are meant to appear as children. Sexuality can and should be used, but only in the right context and with maturity.

Yeah - while I think that objectification is a thing that exists and that shouldn't, I think that sexualization of adult characters is much less of a clear-cut issue (and one on which reasonable people can disagree) than sexualization of characters that are meant to look like minors.

Okay I am bit more sober lets see..people have a problem with this and yet to bring this shojo mod or cotw from fallout to light or nude mods/scanty clothes??

Yes they are mods but hey they still exist even for these games.
http://newvegas.nexusmods.com/mods/35097

Cecilthedarkknight_234:
Okay I am bit more sober lets see..people have a problem with this and yet to bring this shojo mod or cotw from fallout to light or nude mods/scanty clothes??

Yes they are mods but hey they still exist even for these games.
http://newvegas.nexusmods.com/mods/35097

Well you aren't too sober, that first sentence is completely garbage.

And yes I have a problem with sexualizing children in mods too. There is, however a difference between something modded in, and something that's put intentional into the game.

Eamar:

I totally understand putting gameplay first, I just find it saddening that I am increasingly losing my ability to see past this stuff :( The minute I see jiggle physics being touted as a major selling point I lose all interest, no matter how good the game might be.

I can under stand that, though >.> can't say i notice the jigglys in Vin, it dose have it, but Plate tends to keep things still, if you know what i mean

Haha yeah, I am indeed a woman :P Ah, I *really* don't want to pull the "you don't get it because you have a PENIS" card but... yeah, I guess it hits a bit closer to home when it's your gender being presented like this (sorry!) Like I said in my original post, it's not just the characters that bug me, it's the comments on videos (either of gameplay or of female games journalists) along the lines of "BOOBIEZ!!!1!11 ZOMG I WANT TO TOUCH YOUR TITS." So I probably tend to conflate the two, which may not be helpful. Though I don't think it's too much of a leap to connect the two a lot of the time...

:p hey! I'll have you know i don't do that! ^^;; i have to many female friends and I'm sure they'd glare if i did. o.o;; and the glare sucks, even over the interenet

And actually, it's kind of interesting that you automatically assumed I was a guy (not having a go, just making a point). There are A LOT more female gamers out there than people realise, many hidden behind male avatars and forum profiles and staying well clear of voice chat (honestly, try using voice chat in any popular FPS as a woman. You would not believe the abuse you tend to get. Again, not trying to demonise men here, it's the vocal minority and all that, but it leads to women hiding themselves).

as mentioned above, most my friends are female, and they all game, (one is hyper competitive to) so I'm aware your out there, but I'm not about to start asking peoples gender, most the time i just call it as i see it, though admittedly, zombies aren't the best to base anything off of >.> kind like me and my midnight blue Alicorn ....

also >.> FPS community's a crap to begin with, I'd avoid voice chat to

Absolutely there are some decent games for this out there, and I'm totally down with sexy as an option for both genders when it's appropriate. I mean, it would make total sense for male and female Blood Elves in WoW to shmex themselves up, for example. Like I said, and as Shamus said, the key element is choice. Also I happen to love WoW :P

>.> only good thing about WoW, is the Draenie far as I'm concerned >.>;; (mostly i hate it cause the, imo, fucked up the warrior class >.< warriors don't use rage! berserkers do! >.<)

I'm not familiar with vin at all, so my bad. But YAY for tank love :)

Totally agree, character models are a major problem, perhaps more so than the outfits. Something that bugs me in particular is the lack of variety (again, it all comes down to choice). While still limited in many cases, there does tend to be a lot more variation in male body types in games (compare males and females here: http://en.playpw.com/heroes.html )I can totally understand some people wanting to play as a supermodel lookalike, but I'd prefer my characters to look like they can handle the weapons they're supposed to be using. My personal preference would be for powerful, muscular females who looked more like elite athletes than models.

Vindictus is an action based 'MMO' which plays more like a dungeon crawler :see here for how basic runs play out:
the game operates on instances only with teams of four with the leader hosting. Raids (which are generally one room and just the boss monster) cap of at eight and work under the same 'hosting rules' as normal instances, the exception to this is the new, twenty-four player 'God of the Fomor' raid,(and he's REALLY fucking big o.0) which is a hosted by a server. gear is almost exclusively crafted, with mats gathered from bosses for the most part(mats lists are easy to find and generally keep track of) but can only be relied on so much (the dragon, despite being a lvl 40 raid boss was more then capable of one shotting MY lvl 66 ass in lvl 60 gear) with the bulk of 'not dieing' requiring you to understand boss movements, and tells, and reacting (generally by getting out of the way or blocking, though some higher level raid bosses have unblockable attacks). characters are gender locked though, so no dual wielding swords and caving some ones head in with a battle pillar for the ladys :/ unfortunately

also, that link of yours :( only like 12 characters unlocked and of those, the females looked like pretty standard fair

animehermit:

Cecilthedarkknight_234:
Okay I am bit more sober lets see..people have a problem with this and yet to bring this shojo mod or cotw from fallout to light or nude mods/scanty clothes??

Yes they are mods but hey they still exist even for these games.
http://newvegas.nexusmods.com/mods/35097

Well you aren't too sober, that first sentence is completely garbage.

And yes I have a problem with sexualizing children in mods too. There is, however a difference between something modded in, and something that's put intentional into the game.

Then good for ya bro I don't care because it's game nor will I ever care. Everyone has their own sense of morality "right or wrong" & this doesn't bother me. I am more worried about where I am going to live or eat in the next 4 months than some game a guy is playing this then beating off into a towel to really care.

Protecting fictional children isn't on my high list, now if this was game using real children I would be right there with you but polygons or 2d sprites really don't make me grab the pitch forks and go hang them the bastards.

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