The Half-Naked Elf Problem

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My opinion on the Elin issue? No harm, no foul.

GTA does not incubate thoughts of theft and murder in the minds of its players. Are people with a penchant for violence drawn to GTA? Probably. Are people who are not violent eventually made so by GTA? Of course not. That's just ridiculous.

Scrustle:

Eventidal:
snip

That's more or less it. For example when you get to level 10 higher level armour and gems start to become available. The higher level armour would have say, 3 slots for gems opposed to the highest level armour you could get before which only had 2 slots. But when you level up you also gain a skill point which allows you to add an extra gem slot in to a lower level example of a certain class of armour. So if you choose to you will be able to have any style of armour you want and it will still have the best potential for protection. This skill point would be applied to an entire class of armour, so if you decide to switch armour sets at any point you won't lose out on gem slots. But you still need to specialise in a certain class.

Armour would still be unique because gems wouldn't just be things like "+20 defence points", there would be others with more traditional and interesting effects, like the examples you described. So these effects work like side-grades and you can create something interesting and unique, as if you were creating an enchanted item like in other RPGs. But this way you are free to choose what your armour looks like.

It may not be the best system ever but I think it would be a great way to solve the problem of having everyone look the same and people not looking how they want, which still makes sense within the context of the game.

What's the point of giving gem slot numbers to armor though? If you can increase the capacity of low level armor sets of a particular type using points gained by leveling, there's no point in higher level armor having more gem slots. The progression to more slots and better gems should be there, but gaining more gem slots would ideally be a system separate from the equipment itself. I'd imagine a simple system where armor types gain "experience" and level up when you fight with some equipped. Each level they would gain another gem slot. Gems themselves would likely be limited only by level, based on a simple tier system. (tier 0: any level, tier 1: level 15+, tier 2: level 30+, etc.) The name of the gem would dictate how much of what stat it gives, and the tier would multiply those effects and apply a level limit.

That's an interesting system, though. With some work it could be great.

Chemical Alia:
[quote="vortexgods" post="6.371456.14374379"][quote="Scrumpmonkey" post="6.371456.14373945"]
...snip...

When I see that face, I see this:

image

I see a four year old's face on a barely pubescent 4.5-head-tall female body. The hips may be exaggerated, but that is the only feature that stands out as remotely mature to me. Then again, I've also seen plenty of 14/15-year-old girls with more pronounced hips than my own. It's not by accident that the character was designed with features that resemble a young child. It's well understood by artists what features to give a figure when you want to reflect a particular age, and this clearly shows a conscious choice.

--snip--

image
----
imageimage
On the left: image of the supermodel Kate Moss, on the right: example of a photographed 4-year-old girl that took part in our experiment regarding the "babyfaceness hypothesis". The face of Kate Moss clearly shows characteristic features of babyfaces, but at the same time it also includes mature female features like high, prominent cheek bones and concave cheeks which are accentuated evenly by using make-up. Cunningham (1986) claims that the presence of both characteristic features makes faces very attractive.
-- http://www.uni-regensburg.de/Fakultaeten/phil_Fak_II/Psychologie/Psy_II/beautycheck/english/kindchenschema/kindchenschema.htm

To quote Fantômas, "I win."

Scrumpmonkey:
Actually i have heard of Tera, the biggest thing i heard about it is that is basically has a "Scantily Clad Loli" class. No seriosuly look;

imageimage

Yeahhhh... im not comfortable with whoever designed those. Stay the fuck away from me

Oh, wow. I had no idea that everyone who is short and flat-chested is automatically a child.

Look out Heather, who I met at college and Elizabeth, my co-worker, every boyfriend you guys have ever had are going to jail for being pedophiles, despite you guys being well over 18!

Thanks for opening my eyes!

vortexgods:

On the left: image of the supermodel Kate Moss, on the right: example of a photographed 4-year-old girl that took part in our experiment regarding the "babyfaceness hypothesis". The face of Kate Moss clearly shows characteristic features of babyfaces, but at the same time it also includes mature female features like high, prominent cheek bones and concave cheeks which are accentuated evenly by using make-up. Cunningham (1986) claims that the presence of both characteristic features makes faces very attractive.
-- http://www.uni-regensburg.de/Fakultaeten/phil_Fak_II/Psychologie/Psy_II/beautycheck/english/kindchenschema/kindchenschema.htm

Notice how it says "both"? And how Kate Moss doesn't look like a toddler but an actual adult? There's a slight difference going on here. I'd say there's a pretty clear line between some neotenous traits in an anime-styled character design and a straight up preschooler's face, and your average person can discern which side these characters in question fall under.

DVS BSTrD:

intheweeds:

DVS BSTrD:

You don't understand the male mind do you?

Wow, way to completely miss the point - and be horribly sexist. All in the first statement. I doubt the 'male mind' is really all that different from the woman's anyway, other than the fact that he's used to having media cater to him all the time. Maybe shut up about your thoughts and consider what I just mentioned is going on in my 'female mind' just for a second since this is entirely what the article is about?

Anyway, no one is saying armor can't be sexy. I'm saying it shouldn't always be.

Look up. See that tiny moving dot way up over your head? That's the point.

Wow way to disregard almost EVERYTHING i said in that post.
TLDR: It's not that armor HAS to be sexy, it's just that it CAN be sexy and it doesn't have to be skimpy to do it. You make it sound like such an effort, but then again if trying to actually understand what people are saying is too hard for you, then it probably is.

No I read the whole damn thing. It's you who missed my point and the point of the entire article as well as the meaning of the word 'choice'. If you had read my post, you would realize that:
a) women, believe it or not, do NOT always want to look sexy regardless of your 'male minds' desires. And, shocker, we shouldn't have to.

b) your supplied images of 'practical armor which still looks sexy', is both the exact kind of 'body paint' i described in my post, and not fucking battle armor at all. You have shown painted on cat suits.

You fail. I don't care to continue this anymore. "Battle of wits", "unarmed man" and all that.

I can't help but notice that in the link about the jiggle physics, there is a guy with a completely ridiculous chest/ab window on his clothes. So, some equality in ridiculousness at least...
But yeah, choice is always good. And that's not even something that is rooted just in the whole "my scantily clad elf" deal. I presume that not every guy wants to look like a walking pile of metal at the high end.

Shia-Neko-Chan:

Scrumpmonkey:
Actually i have heard of Tera, the biggest thing i heard about it is that is basically has a "Scantily Clad Loli" class. No seriosuly look;

imageimage

Yeahhhh... im not comfortable with whoever designed those. Stay the fuck away from me

Oh, wow. I had no idea that everyone who is short and flat-chested is automatically a child.

Look out Heather, who I met at college and Elizabeth, my co-worker, every boyfriend you guys have ever had are going to jail for being pedophiles, despite you guys being well over 18!

Thanks for opening my eyes!

Short and flat chested does not make you look like a child, looking like a preteen does.

What the hell is wrong with the god damn internet today? I thought this kind of bull was something you'd see on 4chan.
Paedophilia is never okay, I don't care that you talk it all right in your head how these creatures are not really children, you know they look an awful lot like them.

You sick fucks.

Bassik:

Short and flat chested does not make you look like a child, looking like a preteen does.

What the hell is wrong with the god damn internet today? I thought this kind of bull was something you'd see on 4chan.
Paedophilia is never okay, I don't care that you talk it all right in your head how these creatures are not really children, you know they look an awful lot like them.

You sick fucks.

How is it pedophilia? They aren't real.

Is killing people in games now murder also?

I think its stupid to make that a MMO race like that but really, people are taking "what thinking its ok MUST really mean" WWWAAAAYYYY to far.

In WoW, having seen He-Man and a Tauren Male wearing a creepy leather mask, leather torso straps w/thong and wielding two hot iron pokers, I'd say WoW has this maybe 1/3 addressed. Extreme male examples but you (thankfully) won't find many among standard male gear. Most of the female gear is pretty conservative too though a few early female plate sets were silly.

FelixG:

XenonZaleo:

FelixG:

Its probably worth noting that the game is made by koreans, where the age of consent is about 13-14 years old. So making a younger looking sexually objectified character would not be as squicky as would be for more western audiences.

Maybe you forgot or somehow weren't paying attention, but most 13-14 year old girls have, in fact, gone though most of the dramatic puberty changes i.e. they have boobs.

To be completely honest I find myself checking out older women, so I wouldn't have any experience in how flat or endowed girls of that age are. Thank you for the lesson though!

Ha!
To be honest, when I first saw my cousin after 4 years of not seeing her (between ages 10 and 14) I actually called her by her sister's name because I was so thrown by the physical changes.

And, by the way, here in Canada it was 14 until the mid-2000s. The does not mean we fetishized little girls. Age of consent and cultural norms are not really the same thing. We try not to create laws based on cultural norms, and laws do not always change cultural norms.

Therumancer:
Well, for starters this is a non-issue that should have been pretty much banned from geekdom long ago. The idea that women are somehow put off by, or offended by, these depictions of women in fantasy is outright false. Some might be, but they represent a tiny minority. If you've ever paid attention to what female artists and authors produce when aiming at women, it's as "bad" or "worse" than what the guys doing this kind of artwork do.

It's pretty much one of those straw men, where guys generally string up the idea of women being objectified as the reason why there aren't more women around for them to play with, also hoping that by doing so women will be more interested in them for being sensitive. That's really not accurate, and all you really have to do is look at the artwork of female fantasy artists like say Julie Bell, or read how some of the characters dress in say Kim Harrison's "Hollows" series, the "Anita Blake" series, or any of the other diverse "paranormal romance" and "modern fantasy" generes.

Now THAT'S a fallacy if ever I heard one. "Female toys are pink, even women make pink toys for girls, therefore pink toys aren't a problem for women and its ok for all female toys to be pink". Another way to put it: "Aristotle is a man; all men agree that Aristotle is a man; therefore all men should be like Aristotle", this is plainly wrong (my philosophy degree is finally coming to use! I thank you for giving me the opportunity). The point is we all deserve choice, and this was the point of the whole goddamn article. In fact, where do you get the idea that its a "small minority"? You have no objective numbers, just a friend who says things in one way. I can also give you anecdotal evidence to the contrary, which makes your claim a fallacy for a different reason completely.
Another thing that you miss is that maybe some of this is not guys trying to protect girls, but gamers as a community are maturing and they will, slowly, expect more mature-oriented content. I do get unhappy with the teenage/immature adult style because a) It doesn't work for me b) It is clearly not made for children. Since the mean age of gamers is 37 (and here is what a link looks like: http://www.theesa.com/facts/index.asp), and gamers entering the gaming world are getting younger (you no longer start gaming at 15), who are they selling this crap to? Who does it satisfy if not an INSIGNIFICANT MINORITY?
Lastly, the sexist idea that men are only sensitive when they want to get into a girl's pants is silly and does not even deserve a mention. Surely some do it, but to claim that that's a significant force in the outcry is just as sexist as the juvenile portrayal of women. That is a whol;e tonne of other fallacies (from strawman to begging the question). "Maybe you should consider giving people choice about how to portray their character?" "Maybe you should stop trying to get into women's pants by being sensitive!" I hope you see how the two quotes are unrelated because you assume something (wrong) about our intentions and attempt to attack that instead of the claim itself. Its the same as "We need national healthcare!" with the response "People who believe in national healthcare are communists and Nazis, therefore that proposal is bad"
Then, you throw out another fallacy (which I didn't quote) that because tight outfits made of stretchy material would work better for women in general. At the end of the day, Joan of Arc did NOT fight in a bikini, while native male warriors DID fight in loincloths. So a) that's wrong and b) the fantasy genre allows you to make whatever design choices you want, its not real life. So by making the sexist decision, you have made a sexist decision regardless of weird claims about "real life".
But whatever, I still return to my "choice is good" ideal so you should be able to satisfy teens playing the game (again, a minority of gamers) and the majority of gamers who are not teens, or merely satisfy the majority of gamers.

Bassik:

Shia-Neko-Chan:

Scrumpmonkey:
Actually i have heard of Tera, the biggest thing i heard about it is that is basically has a "Scantily Clad Loli" class. No seriosuly look;

imageimage

Yeahhhh... im not comfortable with whoever designed those. Stay the fuck away from me

Oh, wow. I had no idea that everyone who is short and flat-chested is automatically a child.

Look out Heather, who I met at college and Elizabeth, my co-worker, every boyfriend you guys have ever had are going to jail for being pedophiles, despite you guys being well over 18!

Thanks for opening my eyes!

Short and flat chested does not make you look like a child, looking like a preteen does.

What the hell is wrong with the god damn internet today? I thought this kind of bull was something you'd see on 4chan.
Paedophilia is never okay, I don't care that you talk it all right in your head how these creatures are not really children, you know they look an awful lot like them.

You sick fucks.

Oh please.

pre-teens don't look like anime characters.

The problem isn't with the elin, it's with you. It's your choice to see them as children instead of acknowledge the fact that short people without round breasts exist and it's your choice to not acknowledge them as adults. While you're equating every fictional character without your idea of what a full-grown woman's body should look like with children, I'm going to have fun, because I realize that (adult) people come in all shapes, sizes, and body-types. Perhaps gain a little perspective?

The option to play as a naked man ? Please do.

I'm as straight as a spirit level but I would play that just for funzy's.

Shia-Neko-Chan:

Bassik:

Short and flat chested does not make you look like a child, looking like a preteen does.

What the hell is wrong with the god damn internet today? I thought this kind of bull was something you'd see on 4chan.
Paedophilia is never okay, I don't care that you talk it all right in your head how these creatures are not really children, you know they look an awful lot like them.

You sick fucks.

Oh please.

pre-teens don't look like anime characters.

The problem isn't with the elin, it's with you. It's your choice to see them as children instead of acknowledge the fact that short people without round breasts exist and it's your choice to not acknowledge them as adults. While you're equating every fictional character without your idea of what a full-grown woman's body should look like with children, I'm going to have fun, because I realize that (adult) people come in all shapes, sizes, and body-types. Perhaps gain a little perspective?

This Tera fan:

AppleShrapnel:

I feel it should be mentioned that the screenshots of the Elin presented earlier aren't accurate to what is seen in the US release; believe it or not, they were somewhat censored. Their tummies are now covered and they all wear hotpants instead of smexy panties... I was disappointed with that, as was the vast majority of Tera's playerbase. Some shielding themselves with the "censorship is bad" or "compromising original assets is an insult to the Korean artists" argument... but as for me, I just wanted scantily-clad loli cat/fox/rabbit girls. /:3

...

But to answer your burning question; people like me love having skin and overall smexy-ness in games because that means if we get switched on while playing, we don't have to alt+tab or exit the game and go to the internet to complete the process. It's like multitasking. And multitasking in almost any form feels pretty awesome. :P

begs to differ.

So, uh, the people who get off to stuff like this (i.e., the target demographic for this character design) see them as children. The execs who put pants on those models for some of the export versions clearly get that sexualization of this type of character will (rightfully) outrage people in a way that sexualizing every other race in the game won't.

So, yeah, Bassik is right.

Bassik:

What the hell is wrong with the god damn internet today?

Kahunaburger:

begs to differ.

So, uh, the people who get off to stuff like this (i.e., the target demographic for this character design) see them as children. The execs who put pants on those models for some of the export versions clearly get that sexualization of this type of character will (rightfully) outrage people in a way that sexualizing every other race in the game won't.

Actually he said he sees them as lolis.

lolis =/= children.

SajuukKhar:

Kahunaburger:

begs to differ.

So, uh, the people who get off to stuff like this (i.e., the target demographic for this character design) see them as children. The execs who put pants on those models for some of the export versions clearly get that sexualization of this type of character will (rightfully) outrage people in a way that sexualizing every other race in the game won't.

Actually he said he sees them as lolis.

lolis =/= children.

Wait, what? Please elaborate.

Kahunaburger:
Wait, what? Please elaborate.

Elaborate on what?

Lolis aren't always children.

A loli can be any short, flat chested animeish girl.

Kahunaburger:
...

So, yeah, Bassik is right.

Bassik:

What the hell is wrong with the god damn internet today?

Your quoted post by "the other tera fan" does nothing for your argument. The only thing close to your argument here was that he said "loli". Generally, that's used for all short, cute female anime characters, even those that have breasts (even if it is rare), no matter the personality, voice, or age and is irrelevant. If he'd said "underage" then sure, I'd see what you were saying, but by saying "loli", that's not necessarily what he meant.

What the quoted tera fan was disappointed with was the development team succumbing to American culture and censoring something that was really harmless in the first place, as was I, because again, short and under-endowed in the chest area does not automatically mean child and I retain that.

I don't know if he was disappointed in the censorship for the same reason I was, but whenever something that you approve of is censored because of everyone else, you're going to be disappointed by it.

@SajuukKhar & @Shia-neko-chan: You guys know where the word "loli" comes from, right?

Kahunaburger:
@SajuukKhar & @Shia-neko-chan: You guys know where the word "loli" comes from, right?

its origin is irrelevant. The word's meaning has evolved since it was coined.

Shia-Neko-Chan:

Kahunaburger:
@SajuukKhar & @Shia-neko-chan: You guys know where the word "loli" comes from, right?

its origin is irrelevant. The word's meaning has evolved since it was coined.

Uh huh. Keep telling yourself that.

Kahunaburger:

Shia-Neko-Chan:

Kahunaburger:
@SajuukKhar & @Shia-neko-chan: You guys know where the word "loli" comes from, right?

its origin is irrelevant. The word's meaning has evolved since it was coined.

Uh huh. Keep telling yourself that.

I'm not sure what to tell you. The term's meaning has been changed for a while, you can deny it if you want, but there's no sense in arguing it with someone who really wants to paint someone else as a pedophile when there isn't any real proof. :/

Kahunaburger:
@SajuukKhar & @Shia-neko-chan: You guys know where the word "loli" comes from, right?

I wouldn't be surprised if you thought the word Hentai = anime porn.........

Words change thier meaning based on where they are used.

That the origin of the word Loli comes from a book were a man becomes obsessed with a 12 year old girl doesn't change the fact that the definition has changed.

Using your logic the word gay can only = happy in all cases also?

Now is the argument pedophilia is bad or is the argument present actually the collision of different cultures taking their own stance on a subject? I'll talk about the derailment topic first.

Could the avatars look like children? Sure, but that doesn't not mean that they are viewed as sex objects by the creatures, maybe something as cute or sexy, but not to have sexual intercourse with. For instance in the USA there are toys sold to little girls that promote motherhood, baby dolls are just a small example, and what comes to our mind is usually "adorable" or "cute". What doesn't register is "She will make a great mother right now, better find a good husband for her." Now if the Avatar in the game was running around in a bib, rattle, baby bottle, or a doll than that would be of some concern. At the moment, I just see a clash of culture, not what is moral. As for the main topic...

I wanna get this off my chest real quick. In the worst case scenario the women in MMO's are dressed as are high class escorts, NOT prostitutes, whores or strippers. They wear pretty damn expensive and quite frankly beautiful pieces of clothing that would, of course, catch the eye of a patron. The bras arn't frilly or extremely vibrant. I can't even remember the last time an actual thong was worn as a piece of armor in an MMO. At best there are a handful of examples of "Bikini Armor" that exists in MMO's which are usually hard to get. As for being "practical"....*sigh* When a guy who in a full set of armor fights a creature that is far more powerful than a T-Rex...you expect me to think that anything about that situation is smart or practical? In most MMO's you'd be dead long before reaching lvl 10 considering what is thrown at you and you want realism and practicality in Armor only? What of the guards that send you on B.S. quests to do THEIR work for them? Or saving an entire village or city and all you get is XP sometimes....

I'm just saying that realism and practicality in a game is either never going to happen or is total B.S.

p.s. NPC's don't count. They are already gods and can pretty much be naked and still take hits far better than a player in elite tier gear.

Seven hells, why are people still talking about this pedo thing. It's a fantasy game where you fly on Pegasus horses and fight stupidly large monsters with enormous swords and magic. It's not real, it's a pile of pixels. And if pedos really do play the game because of some cutesy bunny ear race, who gives two shits! They're NOT REAL! They don't exist anywhere in reality. It's not the same thing as some guy parking outside of a school waiting for the kids to come out.

Moromillas:
Seven hells, why are people still talking about this pedo thing. It's a fantasy game where you fly on Pegasus horses and fight stupidly large monsters with enormous swords and magic. It's not real, it's a pile of pixels. And if pedos really do play the game because of some cutesy bunny ear race, who gives two shits! They're NOT REAL! They don't exist anywhere in reality. It's not the same thing as some guy parking outside of a school waiting for the kids to come out.

I am pretty sure theres a law against arguments with reason in the internet. Please turn yourself in at the nearest police statition, you are upsetting the mentally challenged.

OT: I think the title is an oxy moron. How can half-naked elf ever be a problem? Elf chicks are hot and the elf dudes are chikish enough to be hot as wel.

As for the loli class, thats pretty epic troll material right there. Find the skimpiest dresses available for the class, run through crowded areas and watch reactions while sipping some fine wine. Bonuspoints for claiming to be 12 year old in general chat.

Shamus Young:
Yes, this is an old issue. Humor me. I know how to fix this. By pointing out games that have already fixed this and calling it my own idea.

Wow, that's pretty novel there, Shamus.

I know how to fix the energy crisis. Humor me. It's called solar power. I'm a genius! Woooooo!

Maybe I'm just an armor nerd but the idea that your gear's form can be completely divorced from its function bothers me more than the actual appearance of the armor.

Also maybe it's too early in the morning but I honestly can't get behind the "moral outcry" over the stripper armor, jiggle physics and hobbits-du-jour. If Tera's visual style doesn't appeal to you, there are literally thousands of other games you could be playing instead.

Can I just say that I would rather have a pedo getting off to his/her tera avatar than actually preying on a real child? Is that an unpopular opinion right now?

Some of you people seem to be confusing "sexy" and "sexist". They are not the same thing. There is nothing wrong with revealing outfits. There is nothing wrong with showing off a little skin and being proud of your hard-earned figure. (Though I don't know why you'd want to be "proud" of a virtual figure you designed in a game. That doesn't take months in the gym or the avoidance of donuts.)

And there is certainly nothing wrong with wanting to play something that arouses you. Arousal is a natural human emotion. Just as we're OK with fiction appealing to every other human emotion, we should be OK with fiction appealing to arousal as well, unless you're a puritan trying to send us back to the Dark Ages. Evolution gave us these feelings, and I can think of no greater arrogance than to suggest that you know better than evolution. (If you believe God made us, this argument works just as well.) There is nothing shameful about indulging in these natural feelings.

And let's not forget that our standards of "decency" in this society are completely arbitrary. We could just as easily be living in a culture right now where pretty much everybody walks around in something skimpy when it's hot out, men and women alike. A lot of indigenous tribes didn't think there was anything wrong with that. Something can only be "revealed" if it was hidden in the first place. So to think of these outfits as "revealing" is to imply that the body is something that should be hidden. The human body is nothing to be ashamed of. It's ridiculous that some people still get so disgusted at the sight of a little skin showing.

The "sexist" part regarding skimpy outfits is true IF, AND ONLY IF the following are true all at once:
-Skimpy outfits are the VAST majority of options for women.
-There are no, or very few skimpy options for men.
-The game is marketed to both men and women.

That last one is important. Playboy magazine, for example, only features women in skimpy outfits. But it's not marketed to women. It's for men. (Well, straight men anyway. And I'm sure some lesbians buy it. Which is fine.) If Playboy advertised itself as something straight women should pick up too, that would be sexist. And the same is true of these games. I don't know a lot about Tera, so I don't know if it fits all three of those qualifications, but the point I'm making is that skimpy outfits in and of themselves are not sexist. And if you're upset about them, the solution isn't to remove them, but add more of them for the other sex.

I gotta be honest, the half naked jail bait anime cat chicks from Tera almost make me want to play that game.

Oh, and I guess the gameplay looks kinda cool too. Whatever.

I really don't have a strong opinion about this. I usually play female characters in MMOs, just because I prefer the sleek agile aesthetic to the hulking monstrosity aesthetic. It's difficult to make a male character who doesn't look like the incredible hulk with boulders attached to his shoulders. I certainly prefer the scantily clad female characters to the overly-armored male characters.

"Some guys don't want to have to be ashamed of their videogame of choice because it looks like cheap, pandering trash."

^^ That's me right there. I need to be able to trust that people seeing me play a game aren't going to consider ME a perv because somebody else in the game couldn't let his crotch alone while (un)dressing a virtual character in a video game.

I would say the real answer is to provide a selector so players see other players' clothing according to the VIEWING player's preference. Call it the ESRB Level Selector (or whatever) and have it swap the type of clothing seen according to the rating.

I think the core technology already exists in character detail level settings which swap textures based on distance, so this is an expansion of existing tech and not a whole new deal.

You know, I think it would be nice if mmo's just let you customize your armour more. I hate showing up in the starting town looking exactly the same as 50 other guys.

just a pet peeve though

Sewa_Yunga:
Rift did it way better by simply providing several wardrobe sets where the first one is free.
It has to be your callings favored armor class or a special costume type of armor though.
You can even tick a box for showing no armor at all for every slot so you can play as a warrior who fights giant dragons in his underpants.
Sadly there are no weapon slots in the wardrobes though there are some "costume" weapons.

Seconded.

Sure, you get a few people running around in their skivvies. But, first of all, there are skivvies involved. Secondly, all things considered, there aren't that many people doing it.

Moonlight Butterfly:
I'm really surprised that the dev's don't see that this 'male demographic' excuse is a big vicious circle.

Because that would require them to take responsibility, to some degree, for perpetuating it in the first place. Which would mean stepping outside of their comfort zones and taking a good long look at themselves.

Also, Elin are creepy as hell. I don't care about their stated backstory: Hips aside, they still look like prepubescent girls. (No, they could not pass for petite, flat-chested women. Their proportions are almost entirely childlike.)

Negatempest:
Now is the argument pedophilia is bad or is the argument present actually the collision of different cultures taking their own stance on a subject? I'll talk about the derailment topic first.

Could the avatars look like children? Sure, but that doesn't not mean that they are viewed as sex objects by the creatures, maybe something as cute or sexy, but not to have sexual intercourse with. For instance in the USA there are toys sold to little girls that promote motherhood, baby dolls are just a small example, and what comes to our mind is usually "adorable" or "cute". What doesn't register is "She will make a great mother right now, better find a good husband for her." Now if the Avatar in the game was running around in a bib, rattle, baby bottle, or a doll than that would be of some concern. At the moment, I just see a clash of culture, not what is moral. As for the main topic...

I wanna get this off my chest real quick. In the worst case scenario the women in MMO's are dressed as are high class escorts, NOT prostitutes, whores or strippers. They wear pretty damn expensive and quite frankly beautiful pieces of clothing that would, of course, catch the eye of a patron. The bras arn't frilly or extremely vibrant. I can't even remember the last time an actual thong was worn as a piece of armor in an MMO. At best there are a handful of examples of "Bikini Armor" that exists in MMO's which are usually hard to get. As for being "practical"....*sigh* When a guy who in a full set of armor fights a creature that is far more powerful than a T-Rex...you expect me to think that anything about that situation is smart or practical? In most MMO's you'd be dead long before reaching lvl 10 considering what is thrown at you and you want realism and practicality in Armor only? What of the guards that send you on B.S. quests to do THEIR work for them? Or saving an entire village or city and all you get is XP sometimes....

I'm just saying that realism and practicality in a game is either never going to happen or is total B.S.

p.s. NPC's don't count. They are already gods and can pretty much be naked and still take hits far better than a player in elite tier gear.

This. Exactly this. In every regard.

Well done, sir or madam.

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