Jimquisition: On-Disc DLC Cannot Be Justified

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On-Disc DLC Cannot Be Justified

There are explanations for games that ship with downloadable content already included. There are, however, no excuses. While you may have a reason, you do not have validation, because on-disc DLC is a problem willingly created by the industry, and it doesn't have to exist in the first place. You cannot justify a problem arranged by design, no matter how much you try and pretend it's out of your hands.

This week, the Jimquisition takes on one of this generation's growing aggravations, and you won't even get charged for it.

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Thankyou sterling, this is one thing that severely pisses me off >:(

But Jim! That's the way the developers wanted the game to be! Don't you understand asking them to get rid of On-Disk DLC would impune the artistic integrity of the game! Do you WANT to set gaming back 10 years (to when they knew better)? It's THEIR game! Think how the developers must feel every time you point out something they shouldn't have done! LEAVE THE POOR DEVELOPERS ALONE! LEAVE THEM ALONE!Kony 2012!
-Movie Bob

But seriously that is one sweat ax!

On-Disc DLC will go away, not because of Jim, but because it's cracked within 24 hours of the games release. As it should be really, I don't care if the EULA / TOS says, I paid for the disc so I'm going to do whatever I want with it. If that includes using it as skeet, yay for me.

Jim, one thing you seem to miss is that games have released compatibility downloads for free that allows gamers to play against people with the content.

It's not an "nfortunate reality," because it was never, ever required. Not even because of the advent of competent online components. This is complete and utter bull.

DVS BSTrD:
But Jim! That's the way the developers wanted the game to be! Don't you understand asking them to get rid of On-Disk DLC would impune the artistic integrity of the game! Do you WANT to set gaming back 10 years (to when they knew better)? It's THEIR game! Think how the developers must feel every time you point out something they shouldn't have done! LEAVE THE POOR DEVELOPERS ALONE! LEAVE THEM ALONE!

Kony 2012!
-Movie Bob

I love you, man.

...

*awkward silence*

Whats with all the worms, Jim?

Also, put this vid on Capcoms site and watch the shitstorm.

DLC is part of the game developer's vision, right? Demanding that they stop DLC would surely be ruining the artistic... bollocks, there just is no prancing around it. On-disk DLC is counter-intuitive to the trust that developers build with consumers, that they are there to provide a meaningful experience at least as much as they want to make a living!

So true. Other games dont have that issue, look at Fallout and Oblivion? Huge game, with some huge DLC released, they managed to make them compatible with their game. So why cant others developers? It is disgusting for a beat em up because you used to unlock them by playing the game, not by buying a code. Why not have both ways? You can unlock via playing or, if your bored, unlock via paying. At least then you have the choice.

I guess its value for money. Especially when you spend 10 and the download is only 128kb, you just feel ripped off. DLC is meant to feel like extra content, you pay for that big chunk of MB's you are downloading to your hard drive. When you just download a key, the content is already there, you already had it so why are you paying for it again?

wow I didn't know Cliffy B was made of worms??

I totally agree that Cliffy B (and other develpers who tout the same line) are basically making shit up, but for me on disc dlc doesn't bother me much. If I want it, I will pay for it, but most of the time it just crap that I don't see the need for and as such I ignore it.

That being said, the Catwoman levels that had to be activated with a new purchase code or a $10 key on Batman: AC was complete shit. The main reason why (IMO) was that the game had used those levels in its marketing and then wanted to put them behind a locked wall.

Zachary Amaranth:
Jim, one thing you seem to miss is that games have released compatibility downloads for free that allows gamers to play against people with the content.

It's not an "nfortunate reality," because it was never, ever required. Not even because of the advent of competent online components. This is complete and utter bull.

Exactly this. Perfect example from recent gaming (2011) WWE: Allstars has 13 DLC characters available over 4 different DLC packs. Since you have to be online anyway to play other people over Xbox live (or PSN), they simply include a compatibility update each time a DLC is released. They took advantage of these by also including the patch fixes in these updates, so they saved on having to release extra separate updates. It isn't that hard.

Yeah I really enjoy seeing companies flail about defending their practices.

"Oh but our right to lie, rip you off, and rob you is ours! ARTISTIC INTEGRITY!"

I also can just laugh in your face, not buy your game...OR BUY IT USED.
If anything developers need to learn that they cant keep doing this.

Bioware is going to see some lagging sales for anything they do. Dont get me wrong ME3/DA2 had good PARTS, but on the whole they were not worth 60 dollars.
You keep doing that and people will just stop buying your stuff.

No matter how artistically you maintain your integrity.

The first time I noticed it was in the first Dragon Age. Where a not insubstantial portion of the game, and one of the best charachters, was declared "extra DLC!" and was locked off until I gave them more money.

I don't think I would smear my fecal hatred all over a company for admitting that they had monetized premium content to help pay their bills; so I agree- a little more honesty, and a little less treating me like a mindless twat would be refreshing.

Cliffy B.... When I see that guy on an interview I just want to punch his face! He is so pompous it's ridiculous.

I like to bring up the example of DC Universe Online. It offers content that is already in the original packet, but offers it as Unlockable Content. Content that they made as a bonus. Then they have DLC packages, with stuff like Fight for the Light. Now, if developers started using the term Unlockable Content, there wouldn't have been an argument in the first place. Well, not as big, anyways. Just the usual bitching and whining from people that don't like to pay for bonus content.

Most developers just patch the game whenever DLC is released for compatibility. So in that respect the argument holds little weight.

Also, why doesn't it take months to certify the DLC? Especially for consoles.

A quick heads up: Capcom doesn't actually use the word "DLC" as "downloadable content" but as "Disk Locked Content" (in regards to the on-disk stuff for SFxT). True story and if I can be bothered to find the article, I will link it. T'was a quote from some Capcom bod in a Shoryuken.com article.

I'm not as pissed off with on-disk DLC as most. (I can justify as to why, but I doubt anyone really cares so I'll save us both the time) but I'm also disliking the trend I'm seeing were it's happening more and more with less justification.

The gripes I have with the on-disk stuff and normal DLC are pretty much identical. It's not the fact that it's on the disk that makes it worse for me. In fact I think in a lot of cases it's better. I don't quite understand the people who are angry at the on-disk stuff but are more than happy to shell out for DLC.

For once, at least, I completely agree with Jim! DLC sucks!

Cliffy B. is the embodiment of everything that is wrong with the modern game industry, at least in term of a single person.

DLC was a good concept. Hell, putting stuff on-disc had a couple practical uses. But as usual, some greedy motherfuckers decide to ruin it for everyone. We're paying $60 for a glorified beta test. And people wonder why I've been getting more enjoyment out of the Wii this generation...

DVS BSTrD:
snip

Classy. Taking a defense for a completely unrelated matter on an unrelated video to take a shot at someone.

Retake Mass Effect: Because everyone who disagrees with us is either retarded or bought by EA.

Have I just fallen in love with Jim? I think I have.

Thanks for voicing how most of us feel towards on-disc dlc. (Which shouldn't even be called dlc, just like you said.)

Who's worse with the dlc stuff? Capcom or EA?

So, CliffyB is whining about them working on DLC for 4 months before a product actually ships? Are they not allowed to work on another project for the company instead?

MonkeyPunch:
A quick heads up: Capcom doesn't actually use the word "DLC" as "downloadable content" but as "Disk Locked Content" (in regards to the on-disk stuff for SFxT). True story and if I can be bothered to find the article, I will link it. T'was a quote from some Capcom bod in a Shoryuken.com article.

I'm not as pissed off with on-disk DLC as most. (I can justify as to why, but I doubt anyone really cares so I'll save us both the time) but I'm also disliking the trend I'm seeing were it's happening more and more with less justification.

The gripes I have with the on-disk stuff and normal DLC are pretty much identical. It's not the fact that it's on the disk that makes it worse for me. In fact I think in a lot of cases it's better. I don't quite understand the people who are angry at the on-disk stuff but are more than happy to shell out for DLC.

Maybe it's happening more and more with less justification because some people try to justify it now. Also, the problem is that if Disc Locked Content keeps up, soon half the content on the disc will be locked.

Can't argue with Jim on any of that.

OT, though: I've been out of the series for awhile. When did "M. Bison" become "Vega?"

Obviously, the solution is to leave it off the disc and force everyone to download it, thereby eating up more bandwidth and hard drive space on consoles.

Or, you know, crazy idea, sell the game with everything unlocked and advertise the shit out of the idea that they aren't screwing you over by charging extra for stuff they already shipped.

I agree with this for the most part, but issues arise specifically with something like Mortal Kombat. None of the DLC characters were on-disc, thus requiring a compatibility patch to be downloaded by anyone who didn't buy the character. The patch was too big to push through discreetly, though, so every consumer HAD to download it by choice. So long story short: I bought and turned out to be INCREDIBLY good with Kenshi, but I was unable to use him in around half the games I got into because even offering someone a pair of free costumes isn't enough to get them to click a few buttons (or they had the minimalist Xbox with too little memory).
So I think that's more what people refer to when they say it's an evil of THIS generation (though it's also one that could be solved by simply removing patch limits, but that's on the console manufacturers at that point).

Crono1973:
Also, the problem is that if Disc Locked Content keeps up, soon half the content on the disc will be locked.

But I don't see how that is specifically a Disk Locked Content issue. You could apply the same argument to Downloadable content.
Hence why I say the gripes I have are the same with both types of DLC and I don't see why having it on the disk is any worse than making you download it later. They're both just as bad as each other just that one way actually makes it less of a hassle for you.

Just for the record though, I agree with Jim on the part where he doesn't like developers whining about it like it's not them who "create the problem" in the first place, but I think I disagree that he's venting his disdain for the on-disk stuff without throwing traditional DLC in to the same pot. Extra content which may or may not be stuff that you should have from the get-go is a whole different argument. The medium its on shouldn't really make much of a difference.

Jim is fast becoming the best thing on The Escapist. Funnier than Yahtzee and talk more sense than Moviebob (much more as of late).

There is a way that makes compatibility a non-issue and that is through a free DLC character/stage demo available the same day as the DLC release. If I'm playing a game online and I see something is a free demo, why won't I download that? You don't have to worry about compatibility since I did download the content, just I downloaded the content with a locking clause after a set condition (expires in a week or after 10 uses).

An don't tell me it saves space. What the hell am I supposed to do with a 160GB hard drive?

Mr. Omega:
Cliffy B. is the embodiment of everything that is wrong with the modern game industry, at least in term of a single person.

DLC was a good concept. Hell, putting stuff on-disc had a couple practical uses. But as usual, some greedy motherfuckers decide to ruin it for everyone. We're paying $60 for a glorified beta test. And people wonder why I've been getting more enjoyment out of the Wii this generation...

DVS BSTrD:
snip

Classy. Taking a defense for a completely unrelated matter on an unrelated video to take a shot at someone.

Just like Movie Bob!

Retake Mass Effect: Because everyone who disagrees with us is either retarded or bought by EA.

And everyone who thinks that developers should change something about their game is an entitled fanboy with NO respect for artistic integrity.

People who complain about on-disc DLC (a misnomer) don't understand how video games are made.

Rather simple really.

Does the first person to count all the worms surrounding CliffyB, win a prize?



You really don't see eye to eye with that guy, do you Jim?

Grey Day for Elcia:
People who complain about on-disc DLC (a misnomer) don't understand how video games are made.

Rather simple really.

People who use this argument don't understand how video games were made BEFORE this gen. Also, the consumers doesn't need to know how a product is made to have an opinion about it.

You know Escapist, I don't get hassled with having to type slogans/captcha on any other forum.

Zachary Amaranth:
Jim, one thing you seem to miss is that games have released compatibility downloads for free that allows gamers to play against people with the content.

It's not an "nfortunate reality," because it was never, ever required. Not even because of the advent of competent online components. This is complete and utter bull.

DVS BSTrD:
But Jim! That's the way the developers wanted the game to be! Don't you understand asking them to get rid of On-Disk DLC would impune the artistic integrity of the game! Do you WANT to set gaming back 10 years (to when they knew better)? It's THEIR game! Think how the developers must feel every time you point out something they shouldn't have done! LEAVE THE POOR DEVELOPERS ALONE! LEAVE THEM ALONE!

Kony 2012!
-Movie Bob

I love you, man.

...

*awkward silence*

Um... Wow Zack I wasn't expecting that

The thing is, Jim contradicts the title of this video in the video itself. In a round-about way he said that on disk DLC is justifiable if you say you did it as a money grab. I completely agree with that sentiment; in business terms it is completely justifiable to lock off part of a finished product to try and get extra money for it, it's money for literally nothing. BUT (before the hate responses start flooding my inbox) it is also completely justifiable to refuse to purchase a product on the grounds you are not getting everything you paid for. You wouldn't buy a car if you had to pay extra for the keys to the trunk.

I can see this heading in a very insidious direction (especially with the rise in downloadable purchases), a move towards games becoming $10 more expensive with an option to purchase a discounted product with content removed in an attempt to train consumers to accept this model with reverse psychology.

DVS BSTrD:

Mr. Omega:
Cliffy B. is the embodiment of everything that is wrong with the modern game industry, at least in term of a single person.

DLC was a good concept. Hell, putting stuff on-disc had a couple practical uses. But as usual, some greedy motherfuckers decide to ruin it for everyone. We're paying $60 for a glorified beta test. And people wonder why I've been getting more enjoyment out of the Wii this generation...

DVS BSTrD:
snip

Classy. Taking a defense for a completely unrelated matter on an unrelated video to take a shot at someone.

Just like Movie Bob!

Retake Mass Effect: Because everyone who disagrees with us is either retarded or bought by EA.

And everyone who thinks that developers should change something about their game is an entitled fanboy with NO respect for artistic integrity.

Yeah, i was going to forgive MovieBob for his comments on the ME3 Ending because he was making them in ignorance until he brought it up again in his cabin in the woods article. Comparing horror fans who want the exact same movie formula played out over and over to those who wanted bioware to release a decent ending, then repeated this over and over for a full page of writing.

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