The Big Picture: Future Assembly

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I've seen the Avengers.

It was good.
I was under the impression it had already come out in the States, though.

here's my review, in short:
This movie is sort of simultaneously easy and difficult to review.

There's not terribly much I can say about it, but on the other hand, I don't really have to.
Here's the short version:
If you have seen if not all, but at least most, of the movies leading up to this, go see it. But you don't need me telling you that. If you are a fan of these characters, or just comic-book movies in general, you already knew what you wanted to do.

The biggest problem (that's simultaneously it's greatest advantage) is that it's not a stand-alone-movie. If you go in this without seeing the previous movies leading to it (Ironman-movies, Thor, Hulk, Captain America) you are not getting the whole experience. Characters and conflicts have been established in those movies, even if you'd be well versed in Marvel-comic-lore, you'd miss out on a lot.

I agree the internet probably made all this possible in the first place. I've been meaning to go watch all those Marvel films for a while now in preparation for the Avengers.

Better get on that sooner rather than later.

irishda:
snip

TL;DR Avengers won't change the game for the film industry. In fact, I'm betting the Marvel movies decline in sales (and probably quality) after the Avengers.

I couldn't disagree more. The film industry will not be changed the day, the week, or not even the year after Avengers comes out. And he is not talking about every single movie crossing over into a unified universe. But this is something, based on the success of Avengers, that is a new outlet for the industry for producers, writers and directors that wish to utilize it. This is not the first time continuity has been placed into film either. The character Jay and Silent Bob were the unifying character in Kevin Smith's whole line of Jersey movies. It was only 2 movies where they were the main characters out of 6 movies.

Also, why do you think that Marvel movies will decline and lower in quality after The Avengers? It doesn't make sense for a studio that has had ever growing success based on good writing, great special effects and solid direction to just stop relying on those same aspects to push the movies forward. To an extent anyway. The upside to this whole thing is it's taken a while to work up to this, and none of the movies leading up were written in a manner that makes them pretty great stand alone movies. This doesn't mean they can go all willy nilly and mess it all up in the future, which they may very well do, but I don't think they will walk away from stuff so easily.

I don't want a flame war, and if that is just your opinion, I can deal with that. I was just curious.

Lieju:
I've seen the Avengers.

It was good.
I was under the impression it had already come out in the States, though.

here's my review, in short:
This movie is sort of simultaneously easy and difficult to review.

There's not terribly much I can say about it, but on the other hand, I don't really have to.
Here's the short version:
If you have seen if not all, but at least most, of the movies leading up to this, go see it. But you don't need me telling you that. If you are a fan of these characters, or just comic-book movies in general, you already knew what you wanted to do.

The biggest problem (that's simultaneously it's greatest advantage) is that it's not a stand-alone-movie. If you go in this without seeing the previous movies leading to it (Ironman-movies, Thor, Hulk, Captain America) you are not getting the whole experience. Characters and conflicts have been established in those movies, even if you'd be well versed in Marvel-comic-lore, you'd miss out on a lot.

The main reason this will be a success is because you are not watering down the story of The Avengers movie by doing origin stories of the characters. It's the reason why people who read Captain America don't sit and wonder in every story arch how Captain America came to be. It's taken care of. The only downside for this will be, IMO, that when you have big names competing on screen then the movies tend to suffer. And I obviously don't mean the actors. It's gonna be hard to balance the fact that my favorite is the Hulk so I want to see more of him, and my buddies favorite is Iron Man (whom I have hated since the Civil War. BASTARDO!)

I just love that for once the Americans get to wait. I'll be watching The Avengers on Thursday or Friday, have fun waiting!

xD

Ahhhhhh Schadenfreude.

Uh...bob, I saw the avengers about two hours ago...just putting that out there.

RaikuFA:

You forgot that guy from Forgetting Sarah Marshall got his own film in Get Him to the Greek. You know, that Russel Brand guy...

Like I said many, many more.

Over arching continuity is nothing new in the movie industry. What's so special about the Avengers is that it's almost meta in it's scale. You've got 4 main characters who had their own movies basically as teasers for one big movie.

But the overall continuity is certainly nothing new, it's been happening for years. Even if it's mostly just slight nods to a larger continuity. Like Sean Bateman picking up the phone in rules of attraction and asking 'is that you Patrick?'

MowDownJoe:

Well, with Evan Almighty, I saw that as the studio wanted to do a sequel, but either they couldn't get Jim Carrey or they realised that it wouldn't make sense to use the exact same characters. However, Steve Carrel's career was on the rise and he had a bit part in Bruce Almighty, so...

It doesn't matter about the motives though. It's still a continuity tie in. It's certainly not a direct sequel to the story told in the first one. It's about a somewhat minor characters getting a lead role.

Didn't they try doing this with the Transporter but then had people wondering why he didn't do any ass kicking and just delivered the package

That's all fine and well, but what does that have to do with Mass Effect 3?

Baresark:

The main reason this will be a success is because you are not watering down the story of The Avengers movie by doing origin stories of the characters. It's the reason why people who read Captain America don't sit and wonder in every story arch how Captain America came to be. It's taken care of. The only downside for this will be, IMO, that when you have big names competing on screen then the movies tend to suffer. And I obviously don't mean the actors. It's gonna be hard to balance the fact that my favorite is the Hulk so I want to see more of him, and my buddies favorite is Iron Man (whom I have hated since the Civil War. BASTARDO!)

Yes, but it requires you at least know about the characters before seeing this.

And it's clearly meant to people who have already seen the other movies, or most of them.
Unless you have, it's like starting to read a book from the halfway onward, or watch just the last act of the movie.

Seeing it tomorrow at an advance screening for cinema employees. Knew there was an upside to my job.

Strain42:

SpiderJerusalem:

Strain42:

...He gets to go to critic's screenings and gets paid to critique movies. What else would you call that if not an actual critic?

Justin Bieber sells records and has his own concerts, yet I wouldn't call him a musician.

Well that's your own thing then, and I'm not gonna argue with you. But regardless of what you think, he does fall under the definition of a musician.

1. a person who makes music a profession, especially as a performer of music.
2. any person, whether professional or not, skilled in music.

Ah, but there's the thing. Is Justin Bieber skilled in music? Sure, he performs songs written by others, composed by more talented people and in general is a product that is sold. So, in theory, he doesn't fit either qualification.

Just like Bob. The Justin Bieber of his kind.

I've heard rumors that Prometheus is going to link Aliens and Blade Runner, and since there's going to be a Blade Runner remake soon, that's not unrealistic.

Azuaron:
I've heard rumors that Prometheus is going to link Aliens and Blade Runner, and since there's going to be a Blade Runner remake soon, that's not unrealistic.

That could be either disastrous or glorious.

I'm really not sure how'd they'd link the two truth be told. I just pray Prometheus is good. And that they give 'space jockeys' a real grown ups name with big boy pants and everything.

I just want to put forward that perhaps the main opposition to something like this is actors. It would be prohibitively expensive to pay someone like Terrance Howard to pass up on other jobs so that he is available to play a supporting role in Marvel films. Continuity in main-stream, studio blockbusters requires that studios hand out bigger contracts and green light many movies at once. Marvel Studios will have to destroy all there big summer blockbuster competitors, in a manner similar to Pixar for other movie studios to want to follow.

Additionally if the cross-over concept works as well as could be hoped, then characters from one film easily appears in another and there is no explanation necessarily about who they are, but what happens when the same actor appears in an un-related film? outside studios will want to avoid hiring actors who have become recognizable characters to play outside roles and actors know that.

Baresark:

irishda:
snip

TL;DR Avengers won't change the game for the film industry. In fact, I'm betting the Marvel movies decline in sales (and probably quality) after the Avengers.

I couldn't disagree more. The film industry will not be changed the day, the week, or not even the year after Avengers comes out. And he is not talking about every single movie crossing over into a unified universe. But this is something, based on the success of Avengers, that is a new outlet for the industry for producers, writers and directors that wish to utilize it. This is not the first time continuity has been placed into film either. The character Jay and Silent Bob were the unifying character in Kevin Smith's whole line of Jersey movies. It was only 2 movies where they were the main characters out of 6 movies.

But they've never seized the mainstream, and Avengers probably won't be the ones to do it for Hollywood. Because, as you said, this isn't new, and it's not something that's conducive to a lot of stories.

Also, why do you think that Marvel movies will decline and lower in quality after The Avengers? It doesn't make sense for a studio that has had ever growing success based on good writing, great special effects and solid direction to just stop relying on those same aspects to push the movies forward. To an extent anyway.

Because as you say:

none of the movies leading up were written in a manner that makes them pretty great stand alone movies.

This is a package deal. None of the movies are all that well written by themselves, so when you watch them, the only thing keeping you from staying on board is the promise that this is all tying together. Iron Man 1&2 were carried by Robert Downey, just like Hulk was carried by Edward Norton. Thor has a terrible second act with probably the fastest character turn around I've ever seen (seriously, he's there for like a day). And Captain America has an equally shitty second act with a bunch of slapdash action sequences that are only tied together because it's Captain America punching people. Pacing must've gotten blown up during that first rescue mission.

When the Avengers is over, people are gonna be back to those subpar filler movies that only served to remind them that this movie was coming, except now there's no pay-off.

Actually the Avenger's come out tomorow in my country, pretty sweet considering we usually get everything a week or two after everybody else.

Not that Im devoutly religious and believe it should all be pure and untouched by the way bob is saying, but I dont think taking a movie like The Ten Commandments and then referencing a movie like Indiana Jones would owrk well. They're two completely different genres where doing something like that would seem to me at least like a spit in the face of the former. Plus IJ was never really a focus on the object itself but rather the adventure to get there.

I mean, ones fantasy action movies and the other is... well, I guess depending who you talk to its also fantasy but manny others consider it to be a documentary (and this isnt just the Christians mind you, but also the Jewish and if anyone still holds on to the Egyptian godS belief them too.

EDIT:

now, where I could see this wokring well in an application to a series im interested in is if Hollywood actually DID make a decent Dark Tower series like LotR got where it spreads out over several films, and then link them to Stephen Kings other films that have been made, like the books did to other books. They did it especially int he Mist (the very beginning with the painting), and it would give a good oppotunity to link it to both IT and Salem's lot (either the movie or the mini series), just to name a few.

I've just got back from a midnight showing in Perth Western Australia, IT.IS.BRILLIANCE!

It moves quickly but contains a lot so never gets bogged down, the hulk steals the 3rd act, Tom Hiddleston is even better as Loki, Cap is cap, Stark is his usual quipping self. The fight scenes are well shot with no shaky cam.

My head is still spinning with it all already got my next set of tickets for tomorrow night with friends. I simply can't wait!

Plinglebob:
And why is Spielburg remaking the Ten Commandments when his company already did with Prince of Egypt (and it was AWESOME!!)?

Exactly my thoughts. The Prince of Egypt is the only retelling of that story the world will need for quite a long time.

That said, I do kind of hope they end up reusing the Ark prop from Raiders, just because that would be a fun little nod. Filmmakers have been doing that sort of thing for ages. I'd probably be more surprised if they didn't.

...That actually sounds interesting. Maybe we could use more crossovers in movies... as long as they make sense, mind you...

Does anyone else think it's funny that immediately after Bob pulls out the 'The 90's sucked' picture yet again he says "It became an overused, endlessly repeating crutch"? No? Just me? Okay then.

We all know exactly where this will head in no time flat. It will start off with people just being in a role in a random movie that fits their current one then people go to see that dude play, then go to see the next one. THEN it goes into a sales tactic up the bum to where it literally screams GO WATCH THIS which screams the same thing.

And you know what, what happened to comic books will happen to these if it keeps going long enough.

Problem with Continuity in Comic Books is that they literally write themselves into a corner and have to come up with a "THE UNIVERSE REBOOTS!" Every couple of years so that they can avoid any backlash of it.

Bob, do you really want to see that happen when this happens? Or am I the only one that thinks its a terrible idea if this happens.

Having a community for movies you make isn't a bad idea, just remember that the minute it becomes a sales tactic and you try to make your romantic comedy entwine with the serious cop flick your going to have to pull a "THE UNIVERSE REBOOTS" out of somewhere.

Soviet Heavy:
So basically, this will only be a good thing if it sticks to genre films and superhero movies, but the minute that it touches something like The Expendables, Bob will hate it.

Of course. After all, you can't go through a video without him attacking the evil jocks, now can you?

To be fair he is a film critic so if it happens it'll be part of his job to see it (unless something else big comes out that same week).

So tied of the 90s sucked picture...ya know it was one of the most expansive decade for for geekdom and fiction. In fact the only ways the 90s sucked for you is if you liked wrestling....

I just hope this movie turns out very well because if so- we'll get more superhero movies and I really want to see more comic stars get together for a grand time rather then seeing each hero get their own movie cause.. well, I want change is all! :p

a connected universe? ... Im pretty sure I made a thread about that but with videogames being connected ... back in 2010 O_o .

let me see if I can find that old thread. http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.165287-Connected-universe#4346132

I think Bob is just getting overexcited again about this. Maybe some people from the industry will look at this and think it is interesting(like Warner Bros) but it required too much time and effort and success was not guranteed. It requireed different movies for all characters before a full crossover, how many studios would be willing to risk that much?

I wish more games would do cross overs that are actually meaningful though off my head I can't think of many that would make sense.

Moeez:
Nice amount of Bobcat Goldthwait in there. His latest movie, God Bless America, was great.

On topic: Battleship and Transformers being part of the same universe, sure. So long as I know what to stay away from if it's under a single umbrella.

Good, I really wanted to see God Bless America. I didn't know it was out yet.

Bob, you are not the only one who would enjoy The Ten Commandments being a prequel to Raiders of the Lost Ark. I think it'll be awesome, too.

Also, love the pic you got for Steve.

LAZERCATS!!!

The only problem is that continuity has to be used both correctly and sparingly. It is a suble art, a fine balancing act. Holywood is good at neither of these.

So these heroes each had their own movies. Don't let that fool you into thinking the game has been changed. When Avengers comes around, these super heroes will be reduced to two word archetypes (loveable jock, paladin leader, sassy chick, snarky egotist etc.) and it won't make much difference to what will probably be a simplistic, generic, super-team-vs-evil-super-villain, plot. Like the one we've seen in 5 X men films. And two Fantastic 4 films. And even that The League of Extraordinary gentlemen film no one likes to remember.

It has been done.

Bob, the last bit you were talking about already happens in film, its just implicit rather than explicit.

MovieBob:

MovieBob is looking forward to The Avengers and its influence on film.

I am not too humble, or ashamed, to admit that the remake of 10 Commandments having the Raiders Ark featured in it gave me a Nerdgasm.

I like continuity in (branching) movies, makes it feel like I am watching one big movie instead of a bunch of little ones.

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