Zero Punctuation: Kid Icarus: Uprising

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Meh, This wasn't really funny, even when i'm a massive nintendo hater.
For one thing Kid icarus was trying to be something else and for a company like Nintendo that's...quite alright i guess...it's enough for me to get me interested.
Although pit's boyish thighs might have helped mellow me out.

CXZ_inc0g:
I still don't understand what people are going on about when they whine about the controls, though.
Just from my experience, I can stand up straight whilst walking and I can play the game easily. Left thumb on the circley-thingy, left index finger on the trigger, right hand holding the stylus.
How come this is so difficult for everyone?

Have you played any chapter on the most intense mode? It's like really spraining your hand.

I generally play the game lying on my side, propped up on my elbow. So aside from my hand falling asleep, I've no real qualms with the controls. My hand falls asleep even when I lie on my back playing a normal game, so I'm pretty much used to it.

Regarding the dialogue, I like how it gives you all the story and characterization without interrupting the game. It's reminiscent of Sands of Time.

Kirbys:

CXZ_inc0g:
I still don't understand what people are going on about when they whine about the controls, though.
Just from my experience, I can stand up straight whilst walking and I can play the game easily. Left thumb on the circley-thingy, left index finger on the trigger, right hand holding the stylus.
How come this is so difficult for everyone?

Have you played any chapter on the most intense mode? It's like really spraining your hand.

I've completed about a dozen chapters on 9.0 with that sort of setup.

Granted, not while walking. Intensities that, er, intense require my full attention.

Finally. Thank you, Yahtzee. I like the game, but the controls are shit on toast.

*looks around*

Dang; did everyone here just drop 20 IQ points when I was gone? Calm down guys. Yahtzee once said that if you like a game or is interested in one, then no amount of criticism should deter that fondness. Ergo he's saying to ALWAYS take his "reviews" with a boulder of salt!

Lordofthesuplex:

problem 2. Wow. Way to over-exaggerate the controls there. I rarely get cramps from the game.

That must be the worst defence of a game I've ever heard. I've never got cramps from playing a videogame, its not like running a triathlon. If a viddeogame gives you cramps then the designer hasn't tested the hardware or interface properly.

If the controls are shit it is a major blow for any game and enough for me not to play it.

The review was entertaining as ever.

Well to be fair, Kid Icarus isn't the only Nintendo franchise where the name that appears in the title isn't actually the name of the main character.

Case in point: The Legend Of Zelda.

bjj hero:

Lordofthesuplex:

problem 2. Wow. Way to over-exaggerate the controls there. I rarely get cramps from the game.

That must be the worst defence of a game I've ever heard. I've never got cramps from playing a videogame, its not like running a triathlon. If a viddeogame gives you cramps then the designer hasn't tested the hardware or interface properly.

If the controls are shit it is a major blow for any game and enough for me not to play it.

The review was entertaining as ever.

The default controls might be bad (I don't agree that they are, personally), but they're completely customizable, so if the default doesn't sit with you, you can change them to whatever does suit you, which, in my opinion, makes opinions about the controls less damning.

A bleak expectations reference? Holy Twatting Shit. If I didn't respect you enough before I do now I know you listen to radio 4. Huh, that's the first sliver of interest I've had in this game, I want to hear his voice to see if it matches; I'm sure it'll pass.

major_chaos:

Anoni Mus:

Yahtzee is not anti Nintendo, he just hates Kid Icarus, Zelda, Metroid Prime M and Brawl. Just coincidence! Of course not, doesn't matter what he says he's biased whether he believes it or not.

Except for the fact that he doesn't hate Metroid prime he hates Other M and IMO anyone who has any level of taste hated Other M. He also doesn't hate Zelda he hated skyward sword, from passing mentions he seems rather fond of Wind Waker. On top of that he spent the first minute or so of the review talking about how he liked the GameCube and the original DS, but no because he had the nerve to not like a game you enjoyed it is so very obvious that he is biased.

OT: most funny ZP in recent memory, but I already knew I wasn't going to be buying this game and it was only half because of the controls, the other big reason was that based on the clips in the Game Trailers review the voice acting is terrible and the "humor", if you can even call it that made me want to punch my screen.

Ok, he hates Nintendo as of now, Wii and 3DS.

It's not because he doesn't like Kid Icarus, it's because what he says is stupid, incomplete and even false! Yes, it's obvious he's biased, did you watch SSBB review?
It's other M, sorry for the mistake. And it's interesting he likes WindWaker because it's one of the worse Zelda's for home consoles.

Wan't the character in the original Kid Icarus named Pit?

Enlong:

The default controls might be bad (I don't agree that they are, personally), but they're completely customizable, so if the default doesn't sit with you, you can change them to whatever does suit you, which, in my opinion, makes opinions about the controls less damning.

There are a lot of people on here, even those who say they enjoy the game, who think the controls are bad. The stand thing seems to suggest they knew the controls would be awkward, otherwise they'd have saved their money and not included it.

Customisation is great and I'm all for it, but standard controls shouldnt seem awkward to a large percentage of your audience and they should definately not result in cramps or spasms.

Fans will buy your game at launch, some people will get the game as a gift with no input. Great.

Others will play their friends or the shop version and bad standard controls will cost sales for this group.

Yahtzee why do you try to reason with the nintendo fanboys they are always gonna hate you unless your kissing nintendo's ass and begging for more.
You should just start doing what they think you do which is hate every nintendo game because its on a product that has the word's nintendo on it.

Spenstar:
Bleh. I guess it was funny, but I have not disagreed with you so much on a game review since Smash Bros Brawl. I'll start out with the good points. Your disclaimer about being unbiased was actually backed up with examples of what you like(d) about Nintendo. You liked the Gamecube and the DS? Cool, you don't like the direction Nintendo is going, that's all. So, Yahtzee, if you really liked the Gamecube and DS, you should have told us before this. Just sayin' With that in mind...

You're joking right? I mean...seriously? Go and watch almost ANY of his 3-DS/Wii game reviews. He basically calls them pieces of shit EVERY time. And is it REALLY that bad that he wants more out of his games than a cartoony adventure with standard controls that don't require them to be messed with? Out of the dozens of games I own, I changed the default controls on one of them. When they include a stand with the game to make it "user friendly" with the default controls, doesn't that scream that they knew the default controls were ass or at least less than optimal but didn't change them for some reason?

erttheking:
It's less people think that you're biased against nintendo and more that they think that you're biased against the Wii because you never pass down an opportunity to rag on it and now that I think about it you've taken a lot of pot shots at the 3DS too. I know that you're not biased but really you can only come back to the same thing with the same complaints and so many times before people start to think that you have a bone to pick.

I get what you're saying, but I have a rebuttal anyway.

If the issues continue to exist and the company continues to make games that highlight the existing problems that he feels the systems have(3D with the DS, accurate motion tracking with the Wii) then its still a justifiable beef. Personally I have the same issues with both systems and I never tire of ripping on the systems. But you could be right I suppose, that could be a type of bias?

Man I was having a bad day and then I come home to thinking "man I wonder what game Yahtzee reviewed today..... a Nintendo game!!! w00000000t!!!!"

Always fun to hear someone tell it like it is about Nintendo. I DID grow up with Nintendo and I remember when they were about innovation, not milking franchises. Last good game from Nintendo was Pikmin. /trolling

crazyarms33:

Spenstar:
Bleh. I guess it was funny, but I have not disagreed with you so much on a game review since Smash Bros Brawl. I'll start out with the good points. Your disclaimer about being unbiased was actually backed up with examples of what you like(d) about Nintendo. You liked the Gamecube and the DS? Cool, you don't like the direction Nintendo is going, that's all. So, Yahtzee, if you really liked the Gamecube and DS, you should have told us before this. Just sayin' With that in mind...

You're joking right? I mean...seriously? Go and watch almost ANY of his 3-DS/Wii game reviews. He basically calls them pieces of shit EVERY time. And is it REALLY that bad that he wants more out of his games than a cartoony adventure with standard controls that don't require them to be messed with? Out of the dozens of games I own, I changed the default controls on one of them. When they include a stand with the game to make it "user friendly" with the default controls, doesn't that scream that they knew the default controls were ass or at least less than optimal but didn't change them for some reason?

Well, he liked Mario Galaxy and the Mario RPGs, that counts for something, and in this review he said he really liked the Gamecube and the DS. And games come in all forms, cartoony adventure being one of them. I disagree with Yahtzee because I liked Uprising a lot. And if you read the rest of my post, you'd know that I mentioned the custom controls in a negative way because the stylus is the best way to aim and the face buttons and d-pad are crap. As for the stand, yes the idea of it is jarring but it's not as bad as everyone thinks it is. It's lightweight and I have held the stand with my hand and had the game on it, effectively making it portable.

CopperBoom:
I really enjoyed this game despite the pain caused by the controls.
I am not a Nintendo sheep or twat but I liked the gameplay and voice acting.
NOT BIASED!

Also, in case it matters, YES WHEDON FAN!
I caught that Buffy bit.

Do you require the stand to play it properly or does it just make the game slightly less awkward to play?

____________________________________

Was never a big fan of the gamecube controller.

I always found the Gamecube controller slightly awkward to use. I know, it sounds strange but I played A LOT of games for the snes, PS1 and PS2 before getting a gamecube so my natural thumb position was resting in the middle of the four buttons and I roll my thumb toward the button I'm going to use. The gamecube controller just doesn't really mesh well with that method of playing and I didn't like the position of the x and y buttons, I understand why they were positioned there but again, it didn't work very naturally to me. The L and R buttons also felt doughy... if that makes sense, wasn't that big of an issue until I played Paper Mario: the Thousand Year Door, where mashing the R button was required. I did get used to it but it never feels as natural as the controllers that followed the snes's button layout.

Most of my friends naturally hold a controller with their thumb in what I call a 'hook' position, they all love the gamecube controller.


Good game design has easy controls that are intuitive.

Bad game design has hard controls that are bad enough they felt the need to include additional hardware to make it easier.

Sure, it works for some people, but that's the main reason you have configurable controls, so that people who tend towards the odder configurations (perhaps a disability or other limitation can be a factor, as well) are able to play. Having configurable controls does not excuse having horrible default controls. In general you want to design an interface that one can pick up, use, and put down without much effort.

Lordofthesuplex:
I was afraid of this. Why did I let my curiosity get the better of me and break my "no Nintendo related reviews" policy w/ Yahtzee and watch this simply because it's one of the best games Nintendo released this year. Okay I'm gonna do this commetary style and go over every single problem I find with Yahtzee's shallow bullcrap. But just prove I'm not heartless, I'll list his good points as well.

Problems:

problem 1. Stop judging the 3DS on the 3D alone. Some of us know the thing is a gimmick but bought it for other reasons. That and Uprising's 3D is actually good.

problem 2. Wow. Way to over-exaggerate the controls there. I rarely get cramps from the game. I have more problems with it being to easy to dash and accidentally falling off narrow platforms, not something as simple as aiming. And I don't even use the stand. Also, you complaining about how you like to lay on a couch and play DS? OK 1, that's your petty problem, not Nintendo's and 2, even I can't do that.

problem 3. So, you're complaining about a game having too much stuff to do now? That's the kind of ungrateful behavior that makes me hate the fighting game community.

problem 4. Visuals too busy to look at? Dude, I don't have the best attention span and even I don't have this problem in all but 3 levels. Perhaps you need too stop drinking all the beer at that pretentious bar of yours.

good point 1. Yeah the dialog is pretty corny at points. But I've heard worse.

good point 2. See now the dashing over the edge thing? That's a legit complaint.

Really not as downright hateful as I thought it would be but still, I love how you claim you aren't biased against Nintendo, just willing to point out the company's flaws even though almost all the time you point out said flaws its nothing more than trivial bitch fitting and/or bullcrap, Yahtzee.

1. Without the 3D it's basically just a DS with better graphics. If you're reviewing a game with 3D and the 3D sucks (which is the case in MOST 3DS games), what else are you going to say about the console? "Case looks nice. Buttons are familiar..."

2. I haven't used a 3DS for any length of time myself but if he says he doesn't like the controls, who are you to argue? If they legitimately gave him hand cramps, again, who are you to argue? That's like people saying the 3D gives them headaches or eye strain and people saying "err, no it doesn't!". It's a personal experience remark, you can not dispute it.

3. There's a difference between games with a lot of fun/good content and games with repetitive or grindy bullshit that overstays their welcome.

4. What you said here was "I experienced this problem but you are wrong for mentioning it." Might want to rethink that.

I actually liked the controls for uprising, they were... different, but once you got used to them you're fine. Didn't notice any pain or soreness either, guess that's just me though.

Lordofthesuplex:
I don't have this problem in all but 3 levels.

So you did have this problem for three levels then?

nothing more than trivial bitch fitting and/or bullcrap, Yahtzee.

Whooo. Projecting much?

I didn't have that problem at all, I really don't get why it would be an issue to someone, actually...

SatansBestBuddy:
Surprised he didn't complain about the alien invasion. Seriously, who nitpicks deviations from Greek mythology when a game decides to have an alien invasion in the middle of their interpretation of Greek mythology?

I'm just gonna assume that everything he didn't bring up in the review is good, because that leaves about 95% of the game. He didn't touch on the story outside of the outline you get in mission fucking one. He didn't remark on the bosses at all. He didn't say anything about weapon variety or enemy design or level design or fucking ANYTHING about the game design outside of shitting on the controls, which he also didn't mention are highly customizable to the point where you can remove the stylus completely. And what, exactly, annoyed him about the dialogue again? I think he called it "self-referencing" but I'm not sure what he means by that. Referencing the one game they had 25 years ago? They stop that after mission 10. Hell, the first 10 missions are basically a remake of that game anyway, and they're never annoying about it. Most of my favourite jokes in the game are when the gods make fun of Pit, which is all the time and all of them do it.

I'm wondering where he gets the retro feeling from. This is the most baffling comment he made, really. After Skyward Sword and Mario 3D Land this game feels a full decade ahead of the rest of Nintendo's offerings. It's easily the most contemporary feeling game Nintendo's made since the GC was in it's prime. This feels like a game from 2012. But I guess because it showed an 8-bit sprite at one point and uses chiptune music for some enemies it's a "retro" game.

I usually don't get into arguments over games I haven't played, but he did actually mention the bosses and the level design.

Kid Icarus: Uprising is currently my favorite game of the year.

The controls take awhile to get into, but once you get past the learning curve and you get into the groove, they work just fine. I only wish they supported the CPP more.

And it's crazy that if you'd ask me whether I was going to enjoy Kid Icarus or Mass Effect 3 more, I'd have laughed and told you it wasn't going to be a contest. And yet, nope, Kid Icarus is insanely addicting, insanely good, insanely charming, insanely fun, insanely deep, and insanely satisfying, while Mass Effect 3's finale was the complete opposite of "satisfying".

Of course, that's my personal opinion... but also not one that I would have believed myself if I had time-traveled back three months and told myself this.

I'd love to watch this review/critique and toss in my two cents, but that stupid ad for that stupider show, Space Janitors, is causing it to bug or something and just give me a black box.

Lordofthesuplex:

trollpwner:

Lordofthesuplex:

To complain about something that trivial shows how lazy, petty, ignorant and downright ungrateful today's gamers have become to me. Thanks for reminding me that, assclown.

Yes! We're so lazy and etitled for demanding that developers do their job and get game design right! God, we're soooo damn naggy and entitled! We should just give them our money and stop being so judgy about what they give us! God!

Yes! Yes you are! It took me barely a minute to adjust the controls to my liking, what's your fucking problem then?

And they are doing their job, what might be good controls to one person may be shit to someone else.

Seriously I'm fed up with twats like you that share Yahtzee's elitist mentality and I'm not going to be nice about it anymore since it's why we can't have nice things apparently. Come up with a more legit complaint or shut your fucking mouth.

Back in my day you had to be ab elitist prick to be called an elitist prick, now we have people using it more then Rush Limbaugh talking about liberal politicians...

While you may have no problem with the controls, or even fiddling with controls, other people may. This is why reviews are very personal things, and why certain things that irk a person may mean they just won't enjoy Nintendo games since they will do it again and again.

Anoni Mus:

major_chaos:

Anoni Mus:

Yahtzee is not anti Nintendo, he just hates Kid Icarus, Zelda, Metroid Prime M and Brawl. Just coincidence! Of course not, doesn't matter what he says he's biased whether he believes it or not.

Except for the fact that he doesn't hate Metroid prime he hates Other M and IMO anyone who has any level of taste hated Other M. He also doesn't hate Zelda he hated skyward sword, from passing mentions he seems rather fond of Wind Waker. On top of that he spent the first minute or so of the review talking about how he liked the GameCube and the original DS, but no because he had the nerve to not like a game you enjoyed it is so very obvious that he is biased.

OT: most funny ZP in recent memory, but I already knew I wasn't going to be buying this game and it was only half because of the controls, the other big reason was that based on the clips in the Game Trailers review the voice acting is terrible and the "humor", if you can even call it that made me want to punch my screen.

Ok, he hates Nintendo as of now, Wii and 3DS.

It's not because he doesn't like Kid Icarus, it's because what he says is stupid, incomplete and even false! Yes, it's obvious he's biased, did you watch SSBB review?
It's other M, sorry for the mistake. And it's interesting he likes WindWaker because it's one of the worse Zelda's for home consoles.

yes I did, in fact I went back and watched it again to make sure I hadn't forgotten anything, and I didn't see anything terribly biased,yes he didn't like it but he didn't hate it anymore than most games, and I thought most of his complaints were accurate.

Ok, he hates Nintendo as of now, Wii and 3DS.

from where I'm standing he has every reason to: the 3DS is a mediocre hardware upgrade to the DS that brings exactly one new thing to the table and it is a terrible pointless gimmick that is not that visually impressive (IMO) and adds nothing to the game, and the Wii was built entirely around a gimmick that (again IMO) provides nothing a controller can't except massive amounts of frustration and also suffers from a minuscule library of worthwhile games, and I say all this as someone who is far from biased against Nintendo, I still have fond memories of the SNES and N64, and its not just nostalgia I still play my SNES and N64 on occasion, and Metroid (except Other M, fuck that POS) is one of my favorite franchises of all time. The point of this overlong rant is simply that I don't think Yahtzee hates Nintendo specifically, its just that Nintendo hasn't put out much good product since they realized that there was fat stacks of cash money to be had by being the first big name in the casual market which drew in a a large number of people with low standards and at the same time alienated people with very high standards, and the standards don't come much higher than Yahtzee.

Capcha: "broken record" great, even the anti-spam features are trying to tell me to shut up...

totally heterosexual:
Medusa is really fappable now though.

"Oops... a little too erect... Anyone got a StF scroll?"

Yahtzee liked Eternal Darkness? Really?! The game was gimmicky at best. Oh wait, what game did he review today?

About the only bare fact(ish thing) I have to disagree with is Yhatzee's idea that firing should have been handled by tapping on the stylus. It wouldn't have helped a damn thing, and arguably could've made it control worse.

There is a good way to fix the controls, and it's odd that they didn't think of it: If you gotta add a peripheral, it should've been the left-handed thumbstick. Considering they included compatability with it for left-handed play, it seems odd they didn't think to let you use it for aiming too.

Really, the controls for Uprising aren't that bad. I found them awkward at first, but was able to adapt fairly quickly. I've also never used the peripheral. It's 100% optional.

Other than that, same ol' Yahtzee hyperbolism.

EcoEclipse:
Really, the controls for Uprising aren't that bad. I found them awkward at first, but was able to adapt fairly quickly. I've also never used the peripheral. It's 100% optional.

Other than that, same ol' Yahtzee hyperbolism.

I wouldn't say that. Read most reviews of this game, good or bad, and you usually find the same theme: People who scored it low usually did because of the controls, people who scored it high either had no problems with the controls, or were able to overlook them.

Kirbys:

CXZ_inc0g:
I still don't understand what people are going on about when they whine about the controls, though.
Just from my experience, I can stand up straight whilst walking and I can play the game easily. Left thumb on the circley-thingy, left index finger on the trigger, right hand holding the stylus.
How come this is so difficult for everyone?

Have you played any chapter on the most intense mode? It's like really spraining your hand.

Yeah, I've completed several.
Why?

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