Zero Punctuation: Kid Icarus: Uprising

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dennett316:
Pointless periperal...how about instead of making a stupid stand, just make the controls workable. Come on Nintendo, you're (sometimes) better than this.

Are the controls REALLY so bad, though? I played the entirety of Metroid Prime: Hunters and both Zelda games on DS without a stupid stand and my hands could go hours without a break. Both had the same "terrible" control scheme generally requiring you to hold the system with your left hand, press L and directional controls a lot, and manipulate the screen with the stylus. I never saw these complaints leveraged against any of those games.

It really blows my mind that game companies make such damn obvious mistakes with controls. It really does. How could anyone design such a set-up and then get through playtesting with it and nobody realizes its obvious problems?

Maybe the playtesters didn't have problems with it. Hell, I'm 100 hours in, and only like 3 of them were with the stand. I mean, yeah, it's kinda nice to use, but I only use it if I'm already at a table. And if I remember it exists.

Does the Escapist not realize that I'm *less* likely to watch another one of their video series if the ad for that series causes the video I *want* to watch to not play? Space Janitors could be the greatest series of all time, but because I can't watch Yahtzee rip Kid Icarus I feel nothing but animosity towards all silly full-border ads from here to eternity.

I honestly did not mind all the in between mission micromanagement in this game and Valkyria Chronicles. I guess that seeing as how both games made the clear point that the player characters return to their base after every mission it kind of felt appropriate, you take a break from the action and choose your equipment before heading out. I guess what I'm trying to say is that it fit well with the story and it let you take a breather after every mission.

Eventidal:

dennett316:
Pointless periperal...how about instead of making a stupid stand, just make the controls workable. Come on Nintendo, you're (sometimes) better than this.

Are the controls REALLY so bad, though? I played the entirety of Metroid Prime: Hunters and both Zelda games on DS without a stupid stand and my hands could go hours without a break. Both had the same "terrible" control scheme generally requiring you to hold the system with your left hand, press L and directional controls a lot, and manipulate the screen with the stylus. I never saw these complaints leveraged against any of those games.

I kinda feel the same, I found that after finding a comfortable way of holding the console (in my case with my left pinkie hooked under the DS and the right one over the right shoulder button) I could play the games for hours without pain. I'm guessing that hand size might factor into this though.

This video is going into the TVTropes DMoS pages within the week.
I expected him to hate on Kid Icarus's controls for the entirety of the video. I did not expect him to compare it to Hunted: The Demon's Forge.
You didn't have to call it GOTY, but "a shit game for twats?" No, Yahtzee. Just no.

I thought he was going to dwell on the gratuitous amount of upskir-toga shots on Pit.
Or how his lovely smooth legs glisten in the sun.
Or how his wavy brown hair frames his cute face perfectly.

I think I'm going to have to lie down again.

Groucho marx.... i didnt think anyone still remmeber them. Ahh, the times when something labeled as "comedy" was actually fun.

Enlong:
Maybe the playtesters didn't have problems with it. Hell, I'm 100 hours in, and only like 3 of them were with the stand. I mean, yeah, it's kinda nice to use, but I only use it if I'm already at a table. And if I remember it exists.

That would be the final proof that nintendo is completely taken over by aliens dedicated to destroying this world by making money on bad games.

I'm shocked to hear Yahtzee call a Zelda game (Wind Waker) "genuinely enjoyable". Even more so because it was my favourite in the series. Then he went and called the controller for the Gamecube "the best designed of the generation" and I lit up with glee because I have spent ages trying to convince people that that is true.

Also regarding all the complaints about the controls being from "bad design" and "lazy developers" and dealing with the problem by saying "why should I pay money if the default controls aren't right?", it really seems like a ridiculously whiney reason to complain about the game. It's like not buying the latest AAA FPS because the devs made the aiming inverted by default or not buying a HTC phone because you don't like the standard ringtone that comes with it or refusing to eat dinner because the potato is touching the broccoli.

I rarely find a game where I DON'T end up changing the settings in some way. Heck, I even go to the audio settings every time I put in a Blu-ray to make sure its set to HD sound. Different people will like different controls. Obviously from the dev's playtesting experience, whatever they went with seemed the most popular but they provided a bunch of options for people who did not like it. Seems like a fair deal to me.

Hold up - leave Buffy out of this.

Shit for twats! That's not really fair, but I guess it gets really annoying after awhile because nearly all entertainment today is so poor in quality, it's hard to imagine they could be any worse. As well as the many people that are content with the same shit over and over and don't mind getting ripped off.

Nintendo have been terrible for so long now, I can't even call them professionals any more.

Don't ever lower those standards.

major_chaos:

from where I'm standing he has every reason to: the 3DS is a mediocre hardware upgrade to the DS that brings exactly one new thing to the table and it is a terrible pointless gimmick...

The hardware upgrade is more than mediocre; it's actually quite substantial. Granted, it isn't nearly as big of a leap as the Vita (whose hardware is very good, but it basically requires you to throw all consumer rights away and become Sony's bitch) but it is very good for what a handheld needs to do.

The root of the problem, as always, comes back to Nintendo's lack of quality titles that aren't first-party or ports hindered in part (as evidenced here) by substandard controls for what the market wants. Who wants to develop 3D games (the style, not the gimmick) for a system that doesn't have the basic controls to support it?
Not every game can rip off Star Fox.

Yeah, the hardware upgrade is pretty huge. You couldn't have gotten MGS3 on the original DS.

Or, to make a more directly comparable... comparison, take a look at Kingdom Hearts re:coded compared to Kingdom Hearts 3D. It's a pretty major leap, even if you don't do anything but token 3D.

Personally, after the hype of 3D wore off, I was far more excited by the possibilities presented by the improved hardware capabilities.

I want to defend this game, but I feel like it's a losing battle. Yes, the controls are ass. Though you can change them, they're still ass. Best I came up with is using the ABXY buttons to move the reticle. The humor is admittedly childish as hell and some of the nods to other games made me cringe, like the Metroid one for example. Also, I'm pretty sure there's a dick joke in the second level or maybe I'm just going nuts(har har). One thing I will defend is that the game looks and sounds fantastic and the weapon system is wonderfully complex. Not too easy, but not too difficult either if you know what you're doing. I guess the game has a certain charm to it, which allows me to look past some of it's flaws and appreciate it as a great game. I can see why some wouldn't like it, however. The controls are very off-putting.

In answer to your end credits statement that you never actually want an answer for, Nemesis, the Greek Goddess of Divine Retribution (on S.T.A.R.S.) is tradtionally depicted as a woman with angelic wings.

Ddgafd:
I want to defend this game, but I feel like it's a losing battle. Yes, the controls are ass. Though you can change them, they're still ass. Best I came up with is using the ABXY buttons to move the reticle. The humor is admittedly childish as hell and some of the nods to other games made me cringe, like the Metroid one for example. Also, I'm pretty sure there's a dick joke in the second level or maybe I'm just going nuts(har har). One thing I will defend is that the game looks and sounds fantastic and the weapon system is wonderfully complex. Not too easy, but not too difficult either if you know what you're doing. I guess the game has a certain charm to it, which allows me to look past some of it's flaws and appreciate it as a great game. I can see why some wouldn't like it, however. The controls are very off-putting.

How can you play the game with ABXY for the reticle? There's no way it controls as quickly as spinning the camera with the touch screen.

VinLAURiA:
Ugh, this was his worst review in a long time. I know he's described himself as a "QA man" and that whatever he doesn't mention is alright, but he's also been quick to point out what a game does good if it is indeed good. This was nothing but mindless complaining and sheer misinformation the whole way through.

All I saw here was him bashing minor things, most of which were subjective complaints or could be fixed with a quick trip to the options menu, and not even touching the actual game itself. That's the second half of the review. His first half was the usual baseless bashing of Nintendo despite how much he's tries to claim that no, he totally doesn't hate them for no reason other than to pander to his poser-cynical fanbase.

I love counter hipsters. It is so cute. He doesn't like most nintendo games? Well obviously he hates them and hates them to look cool.

How the hell are you going to objectively complain about a game?

If he indeed liked the game through all the stuff he didn't mention, he certainly didn't give off that impression considering he usually has even a little bit of praise for other games he likes. Plus that "s#$! game for t%&@s" remark isn't very reassuring either.

Yes, if he liked it, which he made pretty clear that he didn't.

If there's one Nintendo game I thought he'd like, it'd be this one, because it's a franchise they haven't touched in years, has plenty of humor and actually-decent voice acting and characterization (such that avoids the problems he said Other M had),

Whether humor, voice acting, or characterization is good is probably the absolute most subjective thing about any story.

legitimately uses 3D as an essential part of the game instead of as a gimmick (you can't complain it looks cluttered when you deliberately refuse to turn 3D on despite any possible benefits), has customization out the yin-yang, and completely reinvents and advances its series...

What it does to the series is irrelevent. There's a thin line between customization and needless clutter.

But no, it's a Nintendo game so all of that is thrown right out the window and then all he does is parrot popular troll complaints the entire review once he finishes his anti-Nintendo bitching

No, stop blaming his review on anti nintendo bias. That is fucking bullshit and the insistence on it just makes you look like a fanboy.

and then has the gall to call this game another rehash, but "a rehash with restraint" because it's been over TWO DECADES since the last one and that Nintendo only revived the franchise because they were scraping the bottom of the barrel and it wasn't because of - oh, I dunno - fan demand or the fact that it was a good fit for the system? I guarantee you that if this were released on any other platform he'd be making love to the goddamn case that it came in.

Because you're hanging out in his brain and could totally tell

I even stomached that travesty of a Madworld review where he makes an absolute tool of himself spending the entire review bitching and moaning about nothing just because it was a Wii game and I don't even like Madworld!

Quite frankly any wii game is inherintly linked to any criticisms about the wii's controls as the wii creates an integral change in any game that uses it (unless the game works with a classic controller and you're using that). If you're going to make all games on your console control in some new and weird way than you're making it so people have to judge all your games with the controller as part of them. If the console makes a game shit than a review of said game should include, if not even focus on, criticisms of the console. I don't care how good your game is if the only way to play it is by sticking a needle up your ass.

CM156:

Personally I preferred...

Oh, and I was going to cross swords with the fanboys, but there's too many of them! Flee! We can't repel false logic of that magnitude!

Oh Nintendo fanboys, a source of endless entertainment as proved by this and the SSBB thread. I'd say never change but it's not like they ever have, although that applies to fanboys of everything, not just Ninty.

And before anyone asks/acuses/presents a 10 point, page long list no I'm not White Knighting that overly loud midlands livestock chaser. I'm just amused by nerd rage over unimportant shit.

CXZ_inc0g:

Kirbys:

CXZ_inc0g:
I still don't understand what people are going on about when they whine about the controls, though.
Just from my experience, I can stand up straight whilst walking and I can play the game easily. Left thumb on the circley-thingy, left index finger on the trigger, right hand holding the stylus.
How come this is so difficult for everyone?

Have you played any chapter on the most intense mode? It's like really spraining your hand.

Yeah, I've completed several.
Why?

Kirbys:
It's like really spraining your hand.

^ I love when someone clearly didn't read what I just typed...

I guess it's an age thing because several times that game give me hand cramps.

mike1921:

VinLAURiA:

[quote]
But no, it's a Nintendo game so all of that is thrown right out the window and then all he does is parrot popular troll complaints the entire review once he finishes his anti-Nintendo bitching

No, stop blaming his review on anti nintendo bias. That is fucking bullshit and the insistence on it just makes you look like a fanboy.

I'm sorry but doesn't this make you a fanboy of Yahtzee by trying to counter his argument?

Kirbys:

mike1921:

VinLAURiA:

[quote]
But no, it's a Nintendo game so all of that is thrown right out the window and then all he does is parrot popular troll complaints the entire review once he finishes his anti-Nintendo bitching

No, stop blaming his review on anti nintendo bias. That is fucking bullshit and the insistence on it just makes you look like a fanboy.

I'm sorry but doesn't this make you a fanboy of Yahtzee by trying to counter his argument?

If you disagree and say anything about it you're a fanboy? What sort of logic is that? Kirby seemed like a fanboy because he's insisting that if someone doesn't like the game he's biased. And I didn't even say it makes him a fanboy, I said it makes him look like one

About the 3D: it really matters in this game. Especially in the air levels it allows you to see how far the enemies are regardless of any misleading shape or size. If you have trouble playing the game because 'the effects are distracting' it's really more likely because you aren't playing it in 3D. (which means this game is more difficult if you can't see 3D)

I liked the control scheme. Using tapping for shooting would have been a disadvantage because you'd have to take your stylus off which will make you less accurate.
But I have to agree with the dodging of the ledge. I don't think there's anyone who hasn't encountered that problem.

I'm enjoying this game a lot, but the ZP was fun regardless. (as it useally is when I can't agree with it)

You guys DO know that writing off everyone you disagree with as a "fanboy" and assuming that fanboys are incapable of logic is fallacious in and of itself, right? There are going to be people who enjoyed this game and people who didn't. For me, this is my favorite game of this year thus far and is the definitive 3DS title up to this point. Again, that's just me. Someone who enjoyed the game as much as I did might not grasp why others didn't like it, and vice-versa, so there are arguments. But the cries of "fanboy!" and other ad hominem attacks just aren't cool.

Also, of those that enjoyed the game or even played it in general, many would dislike Yahtzee's video for being structured to say only negative things about the game by ignoring or just barely mentioning its best points. It frustrates me so when he reviews a game I played and what he describes does not represent the game as a whole. So that's why the "fanboys" are crying foul. Just giving some perspective.

Am I the only one who seriously didn't mind the controls and absolutely loved the game? I didn't need the stupid stand and pretty much played it anywhere I went.

Yahtzee makes me want to buy this game just to understand this function of the celestial tittie bar.

Granted, I haven't gotten the game, but the way people describe it doesn't make it sound bad to me. I had to hold the left analog, the left shoulder button, and use my right thumb for the other buttons for both Mario Kart and Zelda OoT for the 3ds and never had a problem. (Granted, if I had to press the touch screen while fighting with any quickness in Zelda it was a right ass to do. And I always used my thumbs, not the stylus.)

I'm kind of crushed by this review because I really wanted to get this game to help validate my 3DS' existence. I only have 3 games thusfar, and I've beaten all of them. :|

On the other hand, I haven't tried No More Heroes yet, soo....

DJ_DEnM:
Yahtzee makes me want to buy this game just to understand this function of the celestial tittie bar.

Im kinda suprised nintendo let that through...I mean they are japanese but theyre usualy very kid-friendly even for western standards.

mike1921:

If you disagree and say anything about it you're a fanboy? What sort of logic is that?

It's Yahtzee's logic.
He's done the same thing before with his Smash Bros Mailbag video.

The Nintendo fanboys en mass here, I see. You can always pick them out--they're the ones fighting tooth and nail to justify obviously broken mechanics, as if not doing so would cause their deity to commit suicide. Would admitting something is dumb be all that hard? Come now.

"Controls do suck, yeah. You can change them, but it's a shame you even have to. I still really enjoyed the game on a whole." - Not a fanboy/girl

"The controls are fine. You're just bad. Why not go into the menu and set them all yourself? Game is awesome." Fanboy.

Spenstar:
Also, of those that enjoyed the game or even played it in general, many would dislike Yahtzee's video for being structured to say only negative things about the game by ignoring or just barely mentioning its best points.

Let me remind you of something:

He's a critic; It's his job to be critical and to critique video games.

No once has he ever said he is offering a balanced opinion. You know why? He's offering his opinion and his opinions is that the game is shit. This isn't a news report and he doesn't care that some people like it.

I happen to think eating poo is bad. Some people think it is the sexiest thing on Earth. If I were to make a video critique of eating poo, I would say bad things about it. Why? Because I don't fucking like it.

RJ Dalton:
It really blows my mind that game companies make such damn obvious mistakes with controls. It really does. How could anyone design such a set-up and then get through playtesting with it and nobody realizes its obvious problems?

I imagine it went something like this:

Head of Testing: "How did it go?"

Tester 1: "Well, the controls are horrible and playing the game anywhere without a flat surface and standing still was actually painful."

Tester 2: "I agree. My hand cramped up so bad I couldn't physically play it for more than about thirty minutes at a time."

Head of Testing: "You don't say..."

Tester 1: "Yeah. I think if we were to make-"

Head of Testing: "A large stand that sits on a table, freeing up both hands to use the controls! Brilliant idea!" *runs out of room*

Tester 1: "... some minor changes to the controls..."

Tester 2: "I hate this place."

DanHibiki:

SatansBestBuddy:
Surprised he didn't complain about the alien invasion. Seriously, who nitpicks deviations from Greek mythology when a game decides to have an alien invasion in the middle of their interpretation of Greek mythology?

that part is historically accurate... or rather accurate according to the history channel.

I'm not saying aliens invaded ancient Greece, but...

image

ok first of all, it's really hard to make the argument that the controls are so bad when we already SAW the same type of controls being used in Metroid Prime: Hunters and the Zelda games on the DS... It's the SAME HAND POSITION! Why KI:U is the first game to really get bashed for these controls makes no sense.
The controls are slightly different because it's a 3rd person shooter, so you swipe the touch screen to rotate the camera, but the swiping mechanics have the best customization options in the game..

Maybe the game is getting all the control heat by including the stand with the game? I see a lot of people saying "Nintendo is saying I HAVE to use the stand...", including Yahtzee... This is simply not true. The stand ONLY serves to help you see the 3D, if you wish, while playing. Personally, I played the game in 2D, and never used the stand, and I was fine with it. And I kind of appreciated the free stand that makes watching Netflix or drawing anything exponentially easier.

For all the people on the fence, the controls are fine. You get used to them in ~10 minutes and have a seriously enjoyable game

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