Escapist Podcast: Bonus: Game of Thrones Season 2

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Bonus: Game of Thrones Season 2

On this bonus episode, we share our thoughts on Game of Thrones season 2 so far.

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In the books it is clearer, that there are two kinds of threads beyond the wall there are the dumb, blue eyed Zombies and the guys who create them, the evil, intelligent White Walkers with their piercing blue eyes and the extreme drop in temperature around them who command their zombie army.

And is it me, or could you all hear the big mental grin of Greg Tito when Janelle Bonanno mentioned, that Rob Stark is the only King she would follow?

Abot Eddard Stark, I never could get myself to like him. I understand his character, but in my eyes he is the kind of lord that will get his people killed following good intentions and risk his family due wishful thinking.

Stark as a warrior, even a general, seems a fine man; as a lord he is incompetent.

FFS man, if you are going to go and beg the Queen to kill you, at least send your kids to the north or arrange an escape route... good God.

Well he had already arranged for his daugthers to go back to the north but Sansa didn't want to go back she wanted to get married to Joffrey, so she talked to the queen and asked for help and unwillingly betrayed her family before Ned could seize the power.

I was a little disappointed with the first episode of the second season, mostly because the first season did such a good job at following the book almost word for word. Episode one seemed to be rushing to do too many things too quickly and I was worried that it would result far too many new characters all introduced within the same small time frame and become overwhelming to people who had not read the book. Luckily though the writers for the show saw that and instead altered the events of the book in a way as to not have to introduce so many new characters and instead incorporate fringe characters into these rolls, like Bronn becoming captain of the gold cloaks. Four episodes in and I'm starting to like how the events of A Clash of Kings are unfolding more in the show than in the book. While they are skimming some sections or just flat out removing them (like Arya's tenure as cleaner in Harrenhal), they're shedding light onto other events like Theon's internal conflict and Renly's sexuality conflicting with his desire to rule.

Raban:
In the books it is clearer, that there are two kinds of threads beyond the wall there are the dumb, blue eyed Zombies and the guys who create them, the evil, intelligent White Walkers with their piercing blue eyes and the extreme drop in temperature around them who command their zombie army.

And is it me, or could you all hear the big mental grin of Greg Tito when Janelle Bonanno mentioned, that Rob Stark is the only King she would follow?

Thanks for the spoilers man, especially on a spoiler free cast

Love it keep it up.

One thing that I am wondering though. !!Possible spoilers!! Wasn't the castle where Stannis and co. were under siege when Davos smuggled them the onions Storm's End? Amd wasn't it there that Melisandre gave birth to the shadow? Aren't the people making the show intentionally blending the to event's together?

The white walkers aren't dead, or at least not zombies (it's not really revealed). The blue eyed humans are basically zombies revived by the white walkers, but they are completely different, they are just servants of the white walkers, mindless and slow, while the white walkers are completely alien, wearing shimmering liquid-like armour, graceful and intelligent.

At this point I kind of want to know how big a role magic is going to play in the series going forward. It makes me think of Wheel of Time, which started off fairly grounded in reality but over time as magic started to play a larger role in the world realism starts to get replaced by spellcasters devising new and exciting ways to reduce people to bloody mulch (not that it isn't still a great read).

Fortunately it looks like George RR Martin specifically tried to avoid something like that happening in Game of Thrones. I guess I'm not worried about the series losing touch with reality until they start trying to figure out how to give birth to those shadow-babies on an industrial scale.

I honestly tried to like Circe for a while, or at least respect her in spite of the creepy incestuous affair with her twin brother but I've been having trouble because of that one scene where she ordered Ned Stark to kill Sansa's wolf because Aria's had escaped and one dead dog was apparently as good as another. It just struck me as needlessly, gratuitously cruel. More like something Geoffrey would do.

Naturally the wolves steal every scene they're in. Even if she never comes back into the story, Aria's wolf still has a special place in my heart for taking a chunk out of Geoffrey's hand. I felt bad for enjoying that scene so much.

JokerboyJordan:

Raban:
In the books it is clearer, that there are two kinds of threads beyond the wall there are the dumb, blue eyed Zombies and the guys who create them, the evil, intelligent White Walkers with their piercing blue eyes and the extreme drop in temperature around them who command their zombie army.

And is it me, or could you all hear the big mental grin of Greg Tito when Janelle Bonanno mentioned, that Rob Stark is the only King she would follow?

Thanks for the spoilers man, especially on a spoiler free cast

That is information you can get from the very first chapter in the book and tv show

Arya changes her name to Arry(Boy) when traveling north.

I think this is what is confusing people who read the books and it been awhile:

*warning minor spoilers*

I wish they had kept Vaes Tolorro in the storyline, but I suppose it was cut to speed up Daenerys' arrival into Qarth along with her overall story. Different mediums do demand different pacing, but I'm curious if or how they will have Jorah talk about his past to Daenerys.

So far her story seems to be the most revised for the show compared to the others.

Baldr:
Arya changes her name to Arry(Boy) when traveling north.

I think this is what is confusing people who read the books and it been awhile:

*warning minor spoilers*

Ahhh....maybe that's why I was so confused. Something seemed off to me about that whole plot thread, but I assumed I just plain remembered it all wrong.

Haukur Isleifsson:
Love it keep it up.

One thing that I am wondering though. !!Possible spoilers!! Wasn't the castle where Stannis and co. were under siege when Davos smuggled them the onions Storm's End? Amd wasn't it there that Melisandre gave birth to the shadow? Aren't the people making the show intentionally blending the to event's together?

You know what, you're right. It was Storm's End, the seat of the Baratheons. I had forgotten that detail, thanks for pointing it out.

Greg

Seem like they just may skip the Siege of Storm's End. Jaqen H'ghar rocks.

wrong podcast thread

They mentioned that they thought that the show had already established that Joffrey was terrible, and that they didn't necessarily need to have that scene with the prostitutes. Despite how much of a monster Joffrey has been throughout the series, I feel that the scene was both necessary and tells us something about Joffrey that we haven't really seen yet.
Up until that point, every time Joffrey has done something horrible you could write it off as him being a brash, immature little child with way too much power. When Arya embarrassed him he pettily pulled strings to hurt the Starks (leading to Sansa's direwolf being killed). When Ned is arrested, Joffrey brashly has him executed with no thought of the consequences and he comes of as a petulant child. When he gets news that the Starks are beating his armies in every battle, he directs his anger towards the only Stark at hand, Sansa.
With the picture they painted so far, he's still a monster. He comes off as a spoiled, vindictive child with poor impulse control and the power to act on those impulses. In the scene with the prostitutes, however, he is cold and calculating. He hurts them simply to hurt them (and send a message to Tyrion). With this scene Joffrey goes from being a bully with a really big stick, to a full blown sociopath.

Some cannon clarification:

Stannis nailed the red woman, but we don't know where.

Renly did not have that frank conversation with his new wife.

The comet is a sign of returning magic, magic and winter is coming.

Yorren never told that story, the prayer is all Arya.

Janelle, you are thinking of Tyrion's first wife, who was indeed a whore.

Ya I've read the books a bit too many times. Used to be my favourite series.

Personally I think Robert was a way better ruler than anything Cersei can pull off. Cersei just has no taste for diplomacy. Robert was an idiot, but he makes alot friends, and he kept the peace.

Big fan of the books, the show is more of a gimmick for me, just kind of neat to see parts of the book come to life. Don't like how they handled some of the characters like Sam and Petyr.

Not a fan of the last book though, but I suppose most people won't see that for a couple years.

I literally burst into laughter when Susan said Cersei was incredibly smart. Nope, nope, nope.
Cersei gives off the illusion that she's smart. She makes people think she knows what she's doing.
She actually doesn't. Tywin knows this. Its why he sends Tyrion to rule instead of letting her act as regent.

Littlefinger in the later books explains exactly where Cersei's power comes from. Its a wonderful scene.

Susan Arendt:

Baldr:
Arya changes her name to Arry(Boy) when traveling north.

I think this is what is confusing people who read the books and it been awhile:

*warning minor spoilers*

Ahhh....maybe that's why I was so confused. Something seemed off to me about that whole plot thread, but I assumed I just plain remembered it all wrong.

Its not just you. They've been pronouncing her name weirdly since season 1. I keep hearing it as "Eye-ra" rather than the "Ar-ya" you'd expect it to be.

The name change that confuses me is Theon's sister. It should be "Asha," but they keep calling her "Yaara." I fully accept that changes have to be made when adapting a book to a new medium (even if I'm not thrilled about them skipping over some of Arya's chapters), but I don't quite get this one.

Ramith:
Janelle, you are thinking of Tyrion's first wife, who was indeed a whore.

Ramith:
Personally I think Robert was a way better ruler than anything Cersei can pull off. Cersei just has no taste for diplomacy. Robert was an idiot, but he makes alot friends, and he kept the peace.

Ah cool, all fixed.

As to the other point. I agree that Robert is much worse with money, I just think Robert brings peace, while Cersei would bring war. Its her way, or you die.

Ramith:

SPOILERS

SPOILERS

SPOILERS

Oops, thankye. I'm usually better about that stuff....

I Edited my post. I'd appreciate you spoilering my stuff in your quote as well.

FYI, how you spoiler tag something: Do this without spaces.
[ spoiler = What you want the tag to say ] Spoilered stuff [ /spoiler ]
For example:

I believe that in the book there are "white" walkers and wights. White walkers are the creatures from S1:E1 and what take the baby that Craster leaves out in the forest. Wights are the reanimated dead like the rangers that attack Jon and Mormont at Castle Black or the creepy little girl that un-impaled herself from a freaking tree.

The fact that they are pronounced the same doesn't make it any easier.

Crimson_Dragoon:

Susan Arendt:

Baldr:
Arya changes her name to Arry(Boy) when traveling north.

I think this is what is confusing people who read the books and it been awhile:

*warning minor spoilers*

Ahhh....maybe that's why I was so confused. Something seemed off to me about that whole plot thread, but I assumed I just plain remembered it all wrong.

Its not just you. They've been pronouncing her name weirdly since season 1. I keep hearing it as "Eye-ra" rather than the "Ar-ya" you'd expect it to be.

I cannot un-hear it! /cry

As far as characters go, I think Cersei and Theon are better in the TV show.

We see her relantioship with her jackass son and her horrible marriage. She is more human.

As for Theon he is way more sympathetic. He is kind of a dick, but anyone would have psychological problems after being taught two different codes of conduct (lawful goodish and chaotic evil). Besides in season one is established he is kind of a privileged hostage. His head cold roll any time. No wonder he wanted to feel powerfull.

Edit: Good call in mentioning his less than heroic looks. Good for the plot (as you mentioned) and good for audience since people tend to forgive shit when you have good appearance.

As for Stannis and the Red Woman I think they were downplayed to mere villains. Shame, in the books Stannis qualities and flaws are much more developed and he is shown to be a much more complex character; a man who sees in Black and White fighting a gray world. A shame since he is one of my favorite characters.

The Hound also rarely appears.

PS:

Some people refer to the blue eyed zombies as wights.

Arya will death glare you and it will be awesome.

A little extra. From episode 13

I quite enjoyed the podcast, thanks.
Having Janelle on it was great, it gives us a perspective that is fresh and from the point of view from someone who has not read the books. I have read them, so my mind tends to fill in all of the numerous gaps in the series!

s0osleepie:

Crimson_Dragoon:

Susan Arendt:

Ahhh....maybe that's why I was so confused. Something seemed off to me about that whole plot thread, but I assumed I just plain remembered it all wrong.

Its not just you. They've been pronouncing her name weirdly since season 1. I keep hearing it as "Eye-ra" rather than the "Ar-ya" you'd expect it to be.

I cannot un-hear it! /cry

You must share my pain. SHARE IT!

It is implied in the books that Renly is gay and Stannis is banging the red lady. But you have to remember they intelligence of the average reader (especially someone that is going to sit down with a 1000+ page book) is going to be much higher than the average tv viewer. So on tv you have to hit them over the head with the fact Renly is defiantly gay.

bdcjacko:
It is implied in the books that Renly is gay and Stannis is banging the red lady. But you have to remember they intelligence of the average reader (especially someone that is going to sit down with a 1000+ page book) is going to be much higher than the average tv viewer. So on tv you have to hit them over the head with the fact Renly is defiantly gay.

Isn't it kind of sad that a TV show isn't allowed to stimulate the IQ of the viewers?

RyePunk:
I literally burst into laughter when Susan said Cersei was incredibly smart. Nope, nope, nope.
Cersei gives off the illusion that she's smart. She makes people think she knows what she's doing.
She actually doesn't. Tywin knows this. Its why he sends Tyrion to rule instead of letting her act as regent.

Littlefinger in the later books explains exactly where Cersei's power comes from. Its a wonderful scene.

I just read that scene last night, so you got lucky you didn't spoil it for me. :madface:

Spoilers below*****************************************************************************

Anyhow, that scene came across to me more as Little Finger jerking himself off verbally. Lemme tell you why. Little Finger loves telling tale about how he took both Tully girl's virginity which is a lie. Catelyn treats him like a little brother, a little brother she doesn't think of sexually at all, as far as Lysa goes, maybe he did maybe he didn't. Outside of Little Fingers account of things, I haven't come across anything that points one way or the other. But I know for a fact he is lying about Cat. The fact that he has to say he banged both, when there is nothing to gain beside letting everyone know he isn't a virgin says he is incredibly insecure.

There are tons of other little red flags pointing to his insecurity as well. He is constantly trying to one up Varies. Petyr is master of coin, why does he need to be master of whispers as well? Because he is insecure and constantly needs to prove his worth.

Even the fact that he came from little and worked his way up, clawing and fighting for more power says he is insecure. Contrast him against Davos, who also came from nothing as was raised up. All Davos wants to do is go home and spend time with his remaining children and fingers, but out of a sense of duty and honor, he comes back to do what must be done and is wanting to give it up when he can. Will Little Finger is lord of coin, he also wants the Vale, Harrthenral, and has hinted at wanting to be no less than king. He needs to be recognized in every way, totally insecure.

All of is going through my mind when I read the scene about how he is saying he is a great player in the game of thrones and Cersei only thinks she is. It smacks of insecurity. While there are grains of truth in what he says, it more of just seems like he is trying to tear her down to make himself seem that much better. She is Queen regent, and arguably the most powerful person in the story after Roberts death. So for Little Finger to relegate Cersei to just a minor player, shows how insecure he is.

Finally, some GOT! Also awesome music choice!

bdcjacko:

I'm sorry but much of that is wrong. Petyr probably is lying about Catelyn, but he isn't lying about Lysa (spoilers). And Petyr didn't start a commoner he's from a noble house. The land he is lord over doesn't have much in the way of resources or people due to topography of being infertile, rocky, coast. Which leavs him with few subjects and subsequently little power coming directly from his inherited lordship.

However, Petyr is major player but until book 3 the audience doesn't really get a chance to see just how big. Petyr isn't insecure at all, he's just the purest form of a successful politician/nobleman in the ASoIaF universe.

Yeah, Cersei Lannister is an idiot and not capable of being a ruler, she like her brother acts on impulse not sound judgement. This is why Tywin sent Tyrion to be hand while he was fighting in the riverlands.

You have to remember that in books/seasons 1 and 2 there are a lot people cleaning up the mistakes of Cersei and Joffery when those people are removed later on, we see what they are capable of and what their flaws truly are.

Ramith:
Some cannon clarification:

Ya I've read the books a bit too many times. Used to be my favourite series.

you may want to re-read a few chapters of a storm of swords then........
hint:

I have not read the books and I have no problem following the story(except for names. I'm bad with names). It sounds like the people on the podcast don't know how to pay attention. Most of the things they said that were not explained, were explained(maybe just a line are two but it is there).

A torch and a rat in a bucket that is strapped to a man. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out what a rat is going to do.

You don't know who "The Mountain" is? They told us who The Mountain is, in the very same episode. Not 5 minutes before she started chanting her death wish list.

I could go on but I won't. Just next time please pay more attention.

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