Jimquisition: Better Does Not Mean Good

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I paid $80 for Chrono Trigger. But I still wouldn't mind paying $30-40 for the next GoW or TES.
Handsome like Steven Segal?
image
Ok I admit, there is a small similarity.
Now, I'm gonna have some delicious, made in 'Merica, raisin bran. Yum.

DVS BSTrD:
This episode could have been a lot worse.

Clever.
Toombs approves +4

Urh:

DVS BSTrD:
This episode could have been a lot worse.

...but I'm not sure if it could've been better. I also find that people who espouse the "it could be worse, so shut your trap and take another dick in the arse" attitude are usually the ones who piss and moan about "entitlement" when people air legitimate grievances about a particular game/business model/whatever.

Does noone get meta-humor anymore?

image

I laughed the entire time because of that advertisement line above this.

A touching tale, indeed.

Daystar Clarion:
Subtle product placement Jim, subtle :D

I agree.

Being punched in the stomach is better than being kicked in the junk.

Doesn't mean I'm going to start lining up for gut punches any time soon.

There are people who enjoy getting kicked in the junk!

Sunrider84:

Daystar Clarion:
Subtle product placement Jim, subtle :D

I agree.

Being punched in the stomach is better than being kicked in the junk.

Doesn't mean I'm going to start lining up for gut punches any time soon.

There are people who enjoy getting kicked in the junk!

Yup, and those guys can't breed :D

Ragsnstitches:

Urh:

DVS BSTrD:
This episode could have been a lot worse.

...but I'm not sure if it could've been better. I also find that people who espouse the "it could be worse, so shut your trap and take another dick in the arse" attitude are usually the ones who piss and moan about "entitlement" when people air legitimate grievances about a particular game/business model/whatever.

As a person who see's an issue with entitlement among gamers, I resent that. People do throw that buzz word around a bit too much, but it is a problem in some cases.

When gamers chastise a developer about a game for being "consolised" or being dumbed down, arguing that the developers don't care about their franchise and fans that follow them, ignoring the fact that the "streamlining" is intended to make a game more accessible to people with less tolerance to inefficient/unwieldy designs, and that audience being just as entitled to the games as you (but not as patient with games as you) since they will pay for it with money that is of equal value to your own... . Ergo, Entitlement. Your investment is equal to theirs, you have no real ground to argue otherwise (beyond feeling entitled).

Or gamers who complain about DLC in a general sense, associating all DLC with CoD map packs and weapon/armour/skin packs, while plenty of developers who have released complete games and merely want to extend playability post release and offer substantial DLC in place of the old Expansion pack system. These gamers think that DLC is intrinsically bad because they have to pay for more content and feel as though they deserve that content for buying the full game they already have. No you don't. It's optional, you don't need it unless you want to play more of that game but with NEW content. These are Entitlement issues.

*An example of this one would be the Deus Ex: HR game. When the "Missing Link" DLC was released, it added finished piece of content was cut entirely from the original release. The Developers figured the content was worth having in the game so reworked it into a full DLC (with 3-5 hours game play added to the game) and took on criticisms from the main game and experimented with solutions in the DLC.
However, people argued that because the content, in one form or other, was originally intended to be in the game in order to flesh out certain plot points, they were somehow entitled to the DLC at no cost. I have many problems with that.

However, situations where people throw the entitlement card down and in the process promote and praise bad Producer/Consumer relations, should be checked and confronted. When a Company treats it's customers like sheep or cattle of some form, seeing them as something to be exploited rather then being their only lifeline... that's when shit becomes a problem. On Disk DLC (as sterling argued before), Online passes, actions that diminish consumer power (attempts to demonise the used game market), Intrusive DRM, regional price differences... all these things are detestable and are only pushed by Companies who think they can get away with pull the rug from under us by telling us it's for our own good or that we don't understand...

No, YOU don't understand mister business man... you're here FOR US. If your very presence upsets the blood of your business (the consumer and their wallet) then you are doing something fucking awful.

This is a thoughtful, insightful post - I generally agree with you in most situations. However, there are few things - I wouldn't paint every single thing with a broad brush. Things like online passes, anti-used gaming measures, et al are not across the board morally reprehensible.

Some are bad solutions to terrible problems (used games sales and piracy) - in these cases, the industry and the consumer need to work together to find a common solution. Neither side should endeavor to take money out of the pocket of the other. For example, would you accept an all-digital platform if the pricepoint for the games was lower - say closer to $50 at new and scaled down over time?

Some are simply reactions to the nature of the industry. The curve of sales of DLC on the y axis and time from release date on the x axis is almost a straight slash (unless I just bobbled my metaphor...), so releasing DLC as early as possible is simply the market responding to external forces. If they store the files on the disc, it's even more cost-effective. Now, there are cases where this is abused, but not all of them. In Capcom's case, they flat out said there were going to be DLC characters - does the fact that they stored them on the disc make them wrong inherently?

And some are just revenue generating mechanics. Some are stupid and blatant (Asura's Wrath), but others are giving you good value for your money, so they deserve to be paid as well. Every situation, every company is different. Let your mind and your dollar be your voice.

I think what people mean when they say things like that is you should simply appreciate what you have, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't strive for better. That's what I mean, anyway.

Urh:

DVS BSTrD:
This episode could have been a lot worse.

...but I'm not sure if it could've been better. I also find that people who espouse the "it could be worse, so shut your trap and take another dick in the arse" attitude are usually the ones who piss and moan about "entitlement" when people air legitimate grievances about a particular game/business model/whatever.

You find that because that is almost always the case.

Those folks drive me bonkers, easily the most annoying group of people to talk to. At least in my life experience.

Daystar Clarion:

Sunrider84:

Daystar Clarion:
Subtle product placement Jim, subtle :D

I agree.

Being punched in the stomach is better than being kicked in the junk.

Doesn't mean I'm going to start lining up for gut punches any time soon.

There are people who enjoy getting kicked in the junk!

Yup, and those guys can't breed :D

I saw a video about a guy like that once. This guy had videos on youtube where people jumped on his stuff, had balls thrown at them and so on, and lastly there was a small clip about him becoming a father.
I wish I was joking. =(

Sunrider84:

Daystar Clarion:

Sunrider84:

There are people who enjoy getting kicked in the junk!

Yup, and those guys can't breed :D

I saw a video about a guy like that once. This guy had videos on youtube where people jumped on his stuff, had balls thrown at them and so on, and lastly there was a small clip about him becoming a father.
I wish I was joking. =(

Did he look like this guy?

QUINTIX:
Hopefully I am not the first to post this... good points all around, but no one, NO ONE is EVER denied ER/ICU care in the united states as of a lack of ability to pay.

Actually they are in the frame Jim put it in. As long as you're not dying then the ER doesn't really have anything to do does it. Also unpaid medical bills, including the ER and ICU, go onto your credit report making it so you'll never get out of the hole you're in since bad credit will prevent you from getting many good paying jobs. Not every disability is covered by SSI and Medicare ether. Example, my father has deformed thumbs. Made it so the military wouldn't take him, is bad enough that a fair number of employers won't hire him if it involves working with your hands blue collar, or greeting customers then he wont get the job. When he was finally laid off with his entire department from his job of 20 year he was unable to find any employer who would hire him because of his Age and Thumbs. If my brothers and I weren't around he'd be in pretty bad shape.

Daystar Clarion:

Sunrider84:

Daystar Clarion:

Yup, and those guys can't breed :D

I saw a video about a guy like that once. This guy had videos on youtube where people jumped on his stuff, had balls thrown at them and so on, and lastly there was a small clip about him becoming a father.
I wish I was joking. =(

Did he look like this guy?

No, he looks like this.

QUINTIX:
Hopefully I am not the first to post this... good points all around, but no one, NO ONE is EVER denied ER/ICU care in the united states as of a lack of ability to pay.

While this is true, it's still not an option for many because they would burden themselves, their family, their children, and in cases, their children's children with a mountain of debt so high it would take a telescope to see the top.

For many people where I live, if they get sick or injured, they would rather die than go to a hospital and burden their family.

spot on as always, i saw coming the product placement joke but i loled anyway.

AntonMTL:
...

Sure, quoted for truth but it doesn`t stop people fom complaining AND buying. EA has still a few nice games after all.

The problem is that many of the buying people are the ones who don`t read game related stuff or visit sites like this one.
They keep buying recycled minor updated series or/and support their games without questioning. At least it seems that way (i don`t have any numbers to back something up).

Another thing are games everyone waits for and wants to play. When those hit the shelfes it get`s hard to keep the whole "no DLC"atitude and don`t support this publisher or that publisher.

Keep spreading the word and maybe some people will start thinking.
When it comes to spending money most people are forced to take a better look sooner or later.
After all only sales numbers seem to change something.

Great episode.

Hee hee hee, thanks to the GOW ads all over the friggin place, I got to watch Jimquisition with the line "Before he was a god, he was a man" above the entire video. I think it added something to the experience. XD

It just had to be Kelloggs. Had to be.

That aside, good episode. I love this show because its always 5 minutes of Jim hammering away at thick skulls until they give way eventually. You have to admire his patience. And all the money he gets from advertising raisin bran.

Thank you sir for giving me the hope that I could be as fantastic as Jim Sterling. I won't let you down!

Though I must say even fresh Raisin Bran tastes stale.

[insert general agremeent that people already mentioned]

And I feel nerdy for actually knowing what a frenulum is. Well played there.

i've noticed that games companies up charging up to 20 extra on new games just because they think there going to be popular i que up at midnight for the release of cod mw3 and paid 40 for it the next day i went into the shop the game was then being sold 55 with 5 off if you paid 20 for ms or psn points

Raisin Bran! I almost died laughing. Well played, Jim.

Anyway, I can't agree more with this episode. "It could be worse" isn't a defense or justification for all the shit publishers try to pull. Sure, EA could be worse. They could send an employee to my house to supervise my gameplay instead of forcing me to install Origin and always remain connected to the internet. That doesn't mean that Origin and a required interent connection for fucking single player games stops sucking. It still sucks ass and I will not say "Eh, could be worse" and take it up the ass. It could be better, and EA had damn well better make it so if they want my money again.

And that goes for a lot of publishers (and some developers, looking at you and your lack of QA Bethesda), not just EA. EA is just the biggest asshole in the industry right now, so they were the first to spring to mind for an example.

theultimateend:
image

I laughed the entire time because of that advertisement line above this.

A touching tale, indeed.

That advertisement had me in perfect spirits for this video, which was great.

Aww, sounds like someone had their feelings hurt that they were losing to EC.

You do make a good point though, Jim. There are always things could be better, and ways they could be worse. I personally am in the habit of punching people in the mouth anytime they utter the words "well, it could be worse" if they intend to follow up with how, precisely, things could be worse, because there is no faster way to alert the gods of such things that they overlooked you. However, harping on and on about minutia when there are larger issues at play, for instance, having to type in a code when they could do something like outright limit the number of available multiplayer slots to number of discs sent out to retailers, or something even worse, is petty. Yes, it could be better, but since you only rarely offer up suggestions, and merely drag on and on about how it takes three minutes out of your ever-so-important life, I'm inclined to say the message of "a problem is still a problem" coming from the guy who's barely inconvenienced rings a bit retardedly.

ManupBatman:
So pretty much consumer Stockholm syndrome?

Yeah, pretty much. Like how I bought BioShock two times. Once as a physical copy with activation limitations, thinking that hey, it could be worse; I've got shitty DRM but an awesome game. The second time as a Steam release that happened to be on sale, because Steam's take on DRM is a lot more tolerable and a lot less restrictive than 2K's bullshit initial strategy.

"You paid good money for our game? Well good for you, Sonny-Jim, because you'll have to buy a second copy after five installs! And another one five installs later! And another one! And another one! And-

Oh, that actually pisses you off? Well, shoot. Have a Revoke tool, then, and shut your mouth."

Thanks for that, 2K.

So I've been known to fall to the whole "It could be worse, right?" mentality, but I also know that opposing this approach doesn't necessarily warrant some of the shit pulled off by the Mass Effect zealots, for instance. We have a right to ask for nice things, but we have to ask for these nice things in a reasonable and civil manner.

Honestly, the real problem is that there doesn't seem to be a lot of middle ground between being a subservient fanboy who just takes it because it's Their Favorite Studio, and stirring up a whole lot of shit because YOUR demands were not met.

Some healthy level of critical thought is needed.

CAPTCHA: sin, cos, tan
No, not math! Please, no! NOOOOO-

Hosker:
I think what people mean when they say things like that is you should simply appreciate what you have, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't strive for better. That's what I mean, anyway.

Then why say it at all? By complaining, people are telling the developer or publisher that they don't like whatever they did. Same thing when people decide not to buy certain games or content. This is how you strive for better. So why would you tell people not to complain because they should appreciate the shit they have, but don't stop striving for better? That's what we're doing: striving for better. You make even less sense than the people who genuinely think that people should not complain about anything because someone has it worse.

Aureliano:
Here's a comparison for you: the Jimquisition is to sushi like Extra Credits is to lead paint. You can consume both, but only one of them makes you dumber the more of it you take in.

But watching Extra Credits doesn't make me dumber the more of it I take in. It just makes me realize how dumb the writers of that show are the more of it I take in, and it makes me question the intelligence of the people who actually like EC and take it seriously as well (really, how can you take them seriously when they don't even know what the fuck a first person shooter looks like?). You need a simile that just results in EC being a complete waste of time.

BehattedWanderer:
Aww, sounds like someone had their feelings hurt that they were losing to EC.

Losing? Oh no, stupid people like a stupid show better than an intelligent one. Why would any rational person have their feeling hurt by stupid people doing something stupid? That's like having your feelings hurt by the sun coming up every morning. Just doesn't happen.

Thanks Jim! People who use these arguments do my tits in -.-

BehattedWanderer:
Aww, sounds like someone had their feelings hurt that they were losing to EC.

Pfft. I'm too busy winning hearts to be winning polls!

mjc0961:

BehattedWanderer:
Aww, sounds like someone had their feelings hurt that they were losing to EC.

Losing? Oh no, stupid people like a stupid show better than an intelligent one. Why would any rational person have their feeling hurt by stupid people doing something stupid? That's like having your feelings hurt by the sun coming up every morning. Just doesn't happen.

Awww, look, someone on the internet has an opinion! One that has to be vigorously defended by demeaning the opposing side! How cute. Like a child in a tiny Halloween costume, wanting people to take him seriously. And you'd be surprised what upsets various "rational" people. Things like opinions, for example.

He should have used a Pot Noodle insted of Raisin Bran

You know, George Orwell wrote a book about this. It was called Animal Farm.

Jimothy Sterling:

BehattedWanderer:
Aww, sounds like someone had their feelings hurt that they were losing to EC.

Pfft. I'm too busy winning hearts to be winning polls!

The very second I read that my face lit up and this instantly popped into my head

drednoahl:

Ragsnstitches:

SNIP

To be honest, "consolised" generally means easy and unrewarding to play in my book. Bethesda softworks are fairly savvy though - having continued to support their modding community they could leave things out of the game that would be guaranteed to be added by modders and because of that not so much of a problem. Bioware on the other hand I think have made huge errors with their games working with EA, I suspect that enough of their fans don't trust them any longer and sales will not meet expectation. Gaining new fans at the expense of not meeting the expectations of existing core fans is a dangerous game; GTA IV sold well, but I don't know anyone who is looking forward to V enough to risk buying it at full price.

The key mistake made by those who like to wield the "entitled" card around in my opinion is that they seem to think folks like me want games to be designed specifically for core fans: that's a totally wrong assumption; we want choice. I had the same argument about anime over twenty years ago - the lack of a subtitled option for purchase led to massive piracy through fansubtitling which still persists today. When the option to play a game in my own style isn't in the game, well I'm not going to buy it am I? Devs and publishers expect me to buy it - that's entitled, but the truth of it is I'm simply not.

Players who have identified with and put vast amounts of time into a product shouldn't have to feel alienated "just because" devs want to make the game more accessible to a larger audience. Like a real life relationship, it's the little things that add up, and it's the little things that keep getting cut out of gamings' most popular franchises so instead of a stellar product we end up with mediocrity. Sure Bethesda Softworks or Bioware have delivered what they set out to, but I can't think of one reason why that should make them immune from receiving scathing criticism from the people who have supported them for so long and understand those games better often better than the devs do.

I put consolised in quotations in my first post to deliberately make note of it. Consolised is a buzz word coined by angry people to make other angry people angrier over a subject that makes them angry in the first place. I hate that word as it's to generalised and doesn't consider the functional things that have come out of making games for consoles. The console games haven't all been atrocious over the years and more recently that aspect of console gaming is waning. Developers and producers are seeing the success of games like Demons/Dark Souls (for it's classical trial and error difficulty curve and tasking but rewarding gameplay), Minecraft (with it's unconventional graphics and gameplay) and the Witcher (for showing that ports can be an improvement, and that people like a story that doesn't pamper their every action) and are taking note. These games and more will shape the next few years of game development... for better or worse.

Unfortunately, I can't defend or argue against the point of wanting choice. Everybody wants choice, and some developers try and give us choice, but the choices are limited by practicality. It is undeniable that over the last decade there has been a malign design ethos creeping into the industry of creating games for broad audiences and consequently diluting the flavour for the the core fans of the genre/series but it is also undeniable that the conditions for AAA gaming has also changed, making it a big investment. So playing it safe by appealing to people who normally wouldn't show an interest with you by adding hot topic gimmicks or functions to your games to peek their interests, has become a standard. Though as I said earlier, there are exceptions succeeding and bringing this ugly fallacy to the front, where it will be judged and hopefully repressed. Unfortunately I doubt it will be discarded.

As you said above though, the likes of Bethesda are being savvy about what they can and can't do, aiming to make as competent and memorable (for some) experience as possible while keeping themselves close and open to the modding community so that they can address the "core" issues for the long time fans without barring off the more recent console only fans (oblivion being a bit of a disaster in that sense). Personally, being a long term fan of TES as far back as Daggerfall, oblivion has been the only misstep and I stilled enjoyed it. Skyrim is what Oblivion wanted to be and more. Is it perfect? No. But I have seen improvements and I expect more in the future.

Bioware... I don't know about bioware. They have a history of some great games, but fucked up one sequel and ballsed up the ending of a trilogy and suddenly people hate bioware. I don't buy it. Bioware was never big with their community like Bethesda. They are a closed developer producing everything internally with little external influence bar their previous games successes. They never had an issue with developing a good game before, how can EA who is just the publisher be doing so much damage? Deadlines? They were always there. Demands by EA for change? I still think bioware games are more than a cut above other EA titles, even DA2. Personally, I think it's pressure to live up to their success in the past... it's too much for them and they buckled. Could it be the end for bioware and have they peaked? Maybe. That's the sad truth to business, it's not indestructible or infallible, regardless of its history. I would love to hear it from the mouths of the developers, and not some public rep.

J.d. Scott:

Ragsnstitches:
SNIP

This is a thoughtful, insightful post - I generally agree with you in most situations. However, there are few things - I wouldn't paint every single thing with a broad brush. Things like online passes, anti-used gaming measures, et al are not across the board morally reprehensible.

Some are bad solutions to terrible problems (used games sales and piracy) - in these cases, the industry and the consumer need to work together to find a common solution. Neither side should endeavor to take money out of the pocket of the other. For example, would you accept an all-digital platform if the pricepoint for the games was lower - say closer to $50 at new and scaled down over time?

Some are simply reactions to the nature of the industry. The curve of sales of DLC on the y axis and time from release date on the x axis is almost a straight slash (unless I just bobbled my metaphor...), so releasing DLC as early as possible is simply the market responding to external forces. If they store the files on the disc, it's even more cost-effective. Now, there are cases where this is abused, but not all of them. In Capcom's case, they flat out said there were going to be DLC characters - does the fact that they stored them on the disc make them wrong inherently?

And some are just revenue generating mechanics. Some are stupid and blatant (Asura's Wrath), but others are giving you good value for your money, so they deserve to be paid as well. Every situation, every company is different. Let your mind and your dollar be your voice.

I made a remark on entitlement in a post earlier, I'll quote it here:

Ragsnstitches:
Here's an attempt to concisely define the proper and improper use of the entitlement argument: Anything that is demanded in excess of what you paid for, based on preconceptions of the final product that did not meet YOUR standard, or self-convinced notions of the importance of your presence to the company, is an issue of entitlement.

Anything that is officially promised but not delivered, or delivered in shoddy condition, or delivered underhandedly or lacking respect to the paying consumer, is an issue where a consumers entitlement is actually not being fulfilled. A person has a right to demand what was offered once money has been exchanged and has a right not to be shafted for a quick buck (or to be treated like a pirate etc.).

Of course, these are very rough and need some working, but I believe a distinction needs to be made between what a consumer gets and what a consumer expects to get. They are distinctly different outcomes.

It's a tricky subject. I can't agree with being treated like a criminal just because criminals are doing criminal things somewhere else. I can understand the need to protect your property... but some of these systems in place are pushing it. They aren't a necessary evil, they are exploitative and oppressive to the consumer disguised as a means to counter piracy/2nd hand sales. They punish the consumer, tell us it's for our own good, while making it harder for us to enjoy their product... that doesn't make sense, and is unacceptable.

I agree contingencies are needed to stop piracy, though that will never happen in totality. Jim made a point a couple of weeks back about offering a better platform then the pirates... that means cutting out DRM, gutting intrusive systems like GfWL and refining the positive aspects of platforms like steam.

Online passes are an arbitrary response to used game sales... rather then taking a step back and seeing a way to reduce the price of new releases they just say we'll ask for more money from honest consumers. When people scoff at that, they site our resistances to their current contingencies as being counterintuitive to the industry.

So, let me get this straight. You aim to make games that consumers would be willing to buy in order to be profitable, but you aren't making enough money so look to find who's to blame. When you cherry picked a few candidates for finger pointing you proceed to implement systems to thwart them. That evidently doesn't work but you continue to push it on us, the honest consumer, because we haven't stopped buying your games... but you can't figure out why you still aren't making MORE money. So you start to blame the perfectly normal 2nd sales market, a secondary option for gamers around the world and a valid option for those who aren't particularly wealthy or don't have confidence in your product. You penalise potential future fans, for not taking a risk, by charging them more (defeating the purpose of 2nd hand sales). Then you wonder why people are getting angry at you, all you've done is try to make games they would like... oh wait, in your attempt to protect themselves from loss you started to put undue pressure on the only people who are actually supporting them and on potential future supporters, and even after not seeing an improvement you continue to force it on us and even have the gall to tell us we are being bad consumers.

Da fuck is dis shieeet!
/rant

Anyway, I also said earlier something along the lines of "We as customers do have choice, buy or not buy. We talk with our wallets. Pro-consumerists tell us this all the time (along with demanding transparency in the market, which we still don't have)", So I agree with you on that point.

"Let your mind and your dollar be your choice". Exactly. They are providing things for us because they want something from us... if they don't have what we want, they don't get what they want. If that upsets them, then it's their obligation to make changes, not ours to submit to their will.

mike1921:

Ragsnstitches:
Well in the case of Skyrims UI, yeah you would have a right to complain. That system was slapped on generically for all platforms, not even trying to take advantage of a keyboards extra functionality. It's clunky and unintuitive, contrary to what the developers said it was.

I played elder scrolls IV and Skryim both on console (my sister wants to play, her computer is shit) before the PC and I have to say, the skyrim UI isn't even console-centric, it's just horrible shit all around, worst UI I've ever seen or used. I think it is so bad that I think bethesda should just pay the guys who made skyui some amount of money and patch it in on consoles (although for all I know that's impossible for some reason)

I actually own the PS3 version and aside from the lag issue (which seems to be resolved for me now) I had no real qualms with any thing. I wouldn't agree the UI is horrendous. It's not perfect and it could be worse. Though it could be better too. I still think it's better then oblivion though. That said, I would like a few more menus. It gets too cluttered, especially when it comes to gathering materials for crafting.

I played it for a bit on PC (borrowed it to see if my rig could handle it). The UI was clunky and even unresponsive. I found that the potential for hotkeys was not nearly as good as it could have been and it was just so, unintuitive to browse through.

theultimateend:
image

I laughed the entire time because of that advertisement line above this.

A touching tale, indeed.

Amazing shit

Want Jim in Kratos cosplay.

Jimothy Sterling:

BehattedWanderer:
Aww, sounds like someone had their feelings hurt that they were losing to EC.

Pfft. I'm too busy winning hearts to be winning polls!

Well that's fair. You do win a lot of hearts. And Polls are hard. Especially when they have options. People get distracted, and panic. Hardly reliable anyway.

I dunno am the only one that finds most 7-9's to be 3-6? "Better" seems to be a more twitch friendly fluid gameplay thats inherently shallow and easy(bioshock anyone?).

I wish they got back to developing better gmaeplay narratives that do not involve focusing the product on the drooling masses.

If you want easy and regenerating health then put it on super easy mode.....

herenowit:
Raisin Bran! Is the shit.... ;)

Sorry, we did not have time to get your raisins in by product launch. You can buy them in a separate pack for $2. They are a non integral part of the bran experience anyway, so this way consumers win by being able to choose just to eat bland crap.

I must say, I got a few good giggles out of that one. Nice (:

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