Kid Icarus: Uprising and Hurt Nintendo Fans

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Kid Icarus: Uprising and Hurt Nintendo Fans

A man with a hat like Yahtzee can't have biases.

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Cue the 5000 hate comments.

But yeah, I am always surprised how much you have to address this, but then I see comments after every Nintendo game review you do and I am reminded why.

Yahtzee, you twit! I've said it before and I'll say it again:

Do. Not. Try. And. Reason. With. Nintendo. Fanboys.

It doesn't work. They live in a different plane of existence to us, where logic can be drowned out by them shouting their opinions at us until we want to kill ourselves. Arguging with them only gives them a platform to yell at you for being "wrong" for disagreeing with them.

I always find it amusing when someone has a go at someone else for an opinion. There's times when I agree and times when I disagree with things Yahtzee says, but frankly I couldn't care less if he trashes a game I like (Brawl being the big one), he's entitled to his opinion after all. It's not like his words will suddenly make you hate a game you used to love, he's not a Psychic, after all. If he is, then god help us, if he can be assed.

As for Kid Icarus Uprising, from what I've heard it was originally a Wii game. It probably would have been better off left on the Wii rather then forced into using stylus controls before they had the chance to develop the extra control stick. Even then, I think it's a fun enough game.

Lulz. Opinions are opinions. I enjoy games Yahtzee doesn't like but that doesn't mean the I'm going to automatically claim that he has a bias against them. That being said, when is he going to review Asura's Wrath or, for that matter, Donkey Kong Country Returns?

It's buyer's remorse, pure and simple. In the back of their mind, they realize that they're not getting the experience they've signed on for, but God forbid anyone says that their purchase was a mistake, because then they might have to admit it or realize their standards have lowered, and what a blow that would do to their cred.

Personally, I've been a soft touch when it comes to a gaming experience, in that I can usually find the fun in it regardless of the flaws. This of course, would not make me a very good critic. So, I am enjoying KI:U for its tongue-and-cheek approach and lovely vistas and colors, but that's about it, so far.

Ah here we go again. It has to be said, however, I haven't had any problems with the controls. Not even when I play for an hour or two, or more. I can see why it would be a problem for some. I guess I should count my blessings that I have a pair of dainty Irish/European hands.

Yahtzee Croshaw:
Kid Icarus: Uprising and Hurt Nintendo Fans

A man with a hat like Yahtzee can't have biases.

Read Full Article

Oh, no... you've engaged them. I think that basically amounts to a suicide with its own built-in cremation services. Rest assured: there will be flames.

I know I've had my share of buyer's remorse with certain things, so I can understand (though not agree with or excuse) why people would try to alleviate that guilt by sticking up for the company behind the product I regret buying.

I don't see what you're doing as an attack on Nintendo anyway. They're trying new stuff. Trial and error always produces a much higher ratio of error, and the only way forward is to grapple with that. Call it an error and move forward.

Failing to call out the error is pointless -- what, do they think Nintendo's going to get its feelings hurt? If your dog craps on the carpet, you don't cover it with a paper towel and pat the dog on the head. One, it's not going away on its own. Two, it's going to get worse -- smell, stain, all of it. Three, it's going to happen again, because you're not doing anything to prevent that.

Criticism is the only way forward for anyone, in anything. Plus, it's often hilarious.

As a disgruntled Mass Effect fan, you have my sympathy when it comes to putting up with spoiled Nintendo fanboys.

Yahtzee Croshaw:
You want me to suffer back pain and increase the risk of spinal injury in old age, a scenario ending with my tearful relatives being forced to put a bullet into the moaning pile of twisted bones on the hospital bed, because you want to hear nice things about the little angel twat.

Oh please Yahtzee, we're all so PAINFULLY well aware of your family situation that we know none of them would pony up for the plane ticket to Auz in the first place.

The thing is, the design of Kid Icarus: Uprising seems incredulously lazy. With the stand they issued, it seems like the developers wanted to keep the terrible controls at any cost.

Hell, they had a chance to fix the controls with the Circle Pad Pro peripheral (move with left circle pad, aim with right circle pad, fire with L or R). Sure, it pushes what's considered a handheld, being bulky and all, but at least you can be spared of back pain. But no, it only supports it if you are a lefty, compounding that they fell in love with the controls too much.

Nintendo just dug themselves a hole with the 3DS. The reason why the DS was so successful and everyone loved it was because most of their games were handhelds, and didn't try to replicate consoles. The PSP played console-like games, but it lacked a second analog stick, so it controlled like shit. The PS Vita is out and they finally realized their mistake and added a second analog stick so "console-like" games are acceptable on it.

Since the 3DS is was announced, they were touting console-like games, but only had one analog stick. And now they ran into the same fucking problem, where they control like shit. I'm with you on this one Yahtzee. It's like Nintendo doesn't get it.

Hey, I just checked out your twitter; I didn't know you had such ravishing hair. I always thought you wore that hat for a reason.

My question here is why anyone gets upset at Yatzee.

These reviews are entertainment. You're not SUPPOSED to take offense at them, because Yatzee is insanely harsh on everything, save a few rare gems.

I mean, I'm a big fan of sonic, and I didn't throw a hissy fit when he hated on Generations (which I think is the best sonic game I've played. And I'm talking about the 3D gameplay, not the 2D gameplay). I just shrugged and went "oh well, he didn't like it.".

So to all the haters and whiners, please cut it out. You're both being obsessed, and missing the point harder than a cannon pointed the wrong way. So what if he didn't like the game you like? How does that diminish your love for the game? How does his not liking the game affect YOU?

A well reasoned and articulated argument, that will be completely ignored by the fanboys that it is meant to address.

I always find this ridiculous. People don't understand the purpose of an opinion or process of forming one.

Think of it this way, people who feel the need to yell at Yahtzee simply because his opinion differs from your own:

I genuinely enjoyed Kid Icarus: Uprising. It was fun, it regularly made me laugh, and the graphics (3D included) were great... but it was literally painful to play, so I could rarely play for more than half an hour, at a time. I finished the game with levels completed on varying difficulties, but wanted to to finish them all on maximum. I wanted to complete the "achievement portraits," because that's how I saw them, and I wanted to get Palutena and Viridi as close as possible to see what would happen (I'm not sure anything does). Unfortunately, I couldn't. Why?

Because the game hurts. THIS is Yahtzee's argument and I believe it is a strong one.

Man, having to deal with a bunch of butthurt fans is a pain I hope I never have to experience. But the game can be really made easier to play by turning off the touch screen. Personally I use the circle pad to move, the abxy buttons to adjust the camera and aim, R to shoot, and L to adjust the camera; then I can play the game however I like, lying on the couch, sitting in the passenger seat of the car, insert hooker joke...as long as the 3-D is turned off of course.

The problem is even though I changed the control setup the characters in the game would still TELL me to push the default buttons, like shooting with L. It got confusing at times.

I must admit I feel a little torn.

On the one hand, I do sympathize with Yahtzee having to deal with this B.S. every time a Nintendo game comes out.

On the other hand, the ensuing shitstorm is incredibly entertaining and I never want it to go away.

Considering that Nintendo just posted their first full year loss, I think the market has proven Yahtzee right. Nintendo's games haven't been as good lately and have relied increasingly on gimmicky controls rather than sound design.

Yahtzee, YOU FOOL! By legitimizing these accusations with a reasoned reply, you've acknowledged the fanboys as human beings!

WHAT HAVE YOU DOOOOOONNNE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm sorry Yahtzee, but all I read in that article was bias, bias, fuck motion controls, bias.

As for people assuming that fans of the game just don't want to have it revealed to them that they are wrong, why are you assuming that? Maybe they just like those games while Yahtzee doesn't and feel they need some kind of justification. Just because Yahtzee dislikes something doesn't mean that everyone who likes it is absolutely wrong and simply doesn't want to admit it (and thank God for that! I love 40k regardless of Yahtzee's opinions). Maybe these aren't even all the same people, but actually different fans of different games. The assumptions you guys keep throwing around are just as moronic as the ones people keep making about Yahtzee.

Forget this nonsense, that link to yahtzees twitter led me to discover he has a lets play youtube channel! I know what I'm doing today!

To me it smacks of a lack of play testing. The developers put the game together and thought they had done something really unique, revolutionary even, without putting much thought into the tole it would take on the players. By the time they realized that the game had these issues, it was a bit too close to launch for them to make any meaningful changes to it, so they were forced to cobble together a stand to keep the system still in an attempt to minimize the number of complaints.

It hasn't worked quite as well as they hoped.

How can any section of people keep ignoring these points? It's a portable game. That requires a stand. This should be the end of the argument.

just becasue yahtzee has a problem with KI:U doesnt mean you have to take his critic's personally. For example I loved Sonic adventure 2 battle i thought that game was AMAZING it was fun it was challenging but not to the point of frustration the sound track was really nice and every sonic game i played since that one just makes me wish i was playing it instead of those even the originals and every time i hear yahtzee put a little graphic of it burning along with other 3D sonic games I get irritated but i dont go and piss through his mail slot because its HIS opinion so i dont let it get to me

I haven't played this game and I probably never will, but how is this control scheme appreciably different from the one in Metroid Prime Hunters and almost every other FPS on the regular Nintendo DS? They didn't include a stand that time and there wasn't a huge backlash then either. I found the best compromise was to sit in my bed and balance the sucker on a kleenex box against my lap (subliminal mental image). It was a touch annoying and crampy back then, but no one seemed to bitch too much.

Yahtzee drives the fanboys before him, crushes them, and hears the.. Wait. I can't hear anything, can you?

...and secondly insulting me and my journalistic credibility.

I laughed here quite a bit.
So you have the right to insult people calling them twats because they like a game you don't, insulting people who like motion controls and 3D, jet people aren't allowed to say anything back?

And you didn't have and journalistic credibility to begin with. The big majority of you fans watch you only for the humor, and not to see if they should buy the game. Those who do take your review seriously obviously don't know that you blow everything out of proportions and minor problems seem worse than dooms day. You do sometimes have good points, but unless someone actually played the game, he can't know if you exaggerated or if it's true. But usually it's you exaggerating as much as possible.

You called me a twat because I like the game. And this isn't the first time you insult people because they like games you don't like. No, not even don't like. Games you didn't play past the first 3 minutes. And that is especially the case in Nintendo games.

You ranted in the review of Skyward Sword how the controls didn't work, jet they worked perfectly fine unless you wave the Wiimote like a madman. Ya know, swords can't be precise and attack 20 times a second.

No matter how much a Zelda game changes, as long as it's a adventure game with Link, you will keep saying how it's the same game. Do you even know what the word "franchise" means? I don't think it means what you think it means.

Motion controls work find and can add to the game. True, not every game should have them, but Skyward Sword worked perfectly with them. Games like Red Steel 2 wouldn't even exist without motion controls. All the problems that you have with motion controls aren't caused by the controls but by the developer who can't think of anything creative and useful.

In the last video you wasted half a review just to explain how you are NOT against Nintendo and than proceed to bash Nintendo more than the game.

3D jokes aren't funny anymore. The 3D works fine and is actually useful in the game. The 3D has a much wider field of view than you give it credit. You can walk, sit in the bus, even jump and see the 3D without any problems.

The controls are clumsy at first, but you can get easily used to it and you don't need the fucking stand. It seems to me just that people hand coordination is so fucked up that if they ever needed to survive 5 days on their own, 99% of the human population would die because they would kill them self because they couldn't control their hands while keeping a knife in it.
Did you ever tried to just place your pinky finger behind the 3DS? The fixes EVERY problem there is with the controls. EVERY!

Every other problem would be caused by your inability to move different fingers at will. Or if you're a lefty.

Maybe they could have made the controls better, maybe not. It all depends on how you like them. But fact is, they aren't as bad as you make them to be and you can change them. But no, you couldn't make bad jokes if you said that.

Stop trying justifying your bias and just say you're biased and that's it. No one will give a second fuck about it and people will proceed yo laugh at you "reviews".

People call Yahtzee biased because he tears down Nintendo games that get 4.5/5 Stars from the Escapist, 85/100 on Metacritic, etc. Yes, you might not like them, but clearly there are enough fans and reviewers out there who do for people to question his reviews. Now, not liking the motion controls is one thing, but it is tiring to hear that every time a new Wii game comes out, or not liking the 3D for new 3DS games.

Scrumpmonkey:
How can any section of people keep ignoring these points? It's a portable game. That requires a stand. This should be the end of the argument.

I've known lots of people who had no problem playing it without a stand.

Unless "requires" now means "can be optionally be played with".

Truth be told, I'm surprized that you had to respond to this. I thought that most nintendo fans would have caught on to the fact that you exaggerate things to an extreme degree for comedic purposes and just skipped over your nintendo reveiws like I do to avoid the butthurt.

Captcha: We've got you surrounded. How appropriate.

Are there really that many Nintendo fanboys who try to undermine Yahtzee's opinion by accusing him of anti-Nintendo bias?

There must be, if Yahtzee would dedicate an entire column to it... And that's pathetic...

trollpwner:
Yahtzee, you twit! I've said it before and I'll say it again:

Do. Not. Try. And. Reason. With. Nintendo. Fanboys.

It doesn't work. They live in a different plane of existence to us, where logic can be drowned out by them shouting their opinions at us until we want to kill ourselves. Arguging with them only gives them a platform to yell at you for being "wrong" for disagreeing with them.

Amen.

CyricZ:
It's buyer's remorse, pure and simple. In the back of their mind, they realize that they're not getting the experience they've signed on for, but God forbid anyone says that their purchase was a mistake, because then they might have to admit it or realize their standards have lowered, and what a blow that would do to their cred.

Or not?

I don't fault Yahtzee for his view. On one hand, the fact that he's trying to use the stand gives me an "oh, no wonder" moment. My friends and I that haven't even pulled the stand from its box have gotten used to any hand-cramp and have played the game fine as is. But, this is also a logical fallacy known as argumentum ad populum. If you have to resort to "well, this group of people know it as common sense/truth/etc., therefore it must be true", then you clearly have a chink in your argument.

For what it is trying to do, I actually think the Kid Icarus controls are what they need to be. But, this is also because I enjoy the gameplay as it is. Simple, but open and allowing for up-close or ranged combat.

Let's also speak true, this is hardly the first DS game to require the stylus while holding the system in one hand. However, no one seemed to really fault Knights in the Nightmare, Phoenix Wright or Elite Beat Agents for it. If Kid Icarus never had the stand, I can only wonder if the hand cramps would be a fault of the game at all.

Myself, I stopped having hand cramps after the second or third play session. Still, that's an awfully big pill to swallow. "Oh, yeah, it hurts for a bit, but you get used to it." That's a problem, but once more, it existed before Kid Icarus.

As for Yahtzee being biased, well, we all are, but in this case it's not against Nintendo. Yahtzee stated the levels were awfully short, but I found them to be just right. No neat feature or gimmick overstays its welcome, and the levels are easily replayable. Yet this might simply fit my play style better than his. That's bias, but it's not a critique of Yahtzee. It's a simple fact, and even critics that try to be as objective as possible cannot escape that fact.

Kid Icarus: Uprising is a legitimately good game, albeit unconventional in some of its controls. Is it unreasonable to ask someone to take some time to get used to it? Oh Hell yeah. Every fiber of my Usability studying brain screams about that fact. But is it also a bad call to dismiss a good game because of that? Hell yeah to that, too.

At the same time, anyone watching Zero Punctuation and expecting a video full of good things to say needs a drill to the skull so all the stupid leaks out. Yahtzee is a critic with a goal, and that's to take every game and find its flaws. Why? Because too many people in this industry ignore them. At least, this is what I've gathered. So even if you don't always agree with him, there is value to his videos because at the very least it provides a differing perspective.

Sean951:
People call Yahtzee biased because he tears down Nintendo games that get 4.5/5 Stars from the Escapist, 85/100 on Metacritic, etc. Yes, you might not like them, but clearly there are enough fans and reviewers out there who do for people to question his reviews. Now, not liking the motion controls is one thing, but it is tiring to hear that every time a new Wii game comes out, or not liking the 3D for new 3DS games.

Why does it matter if something is critically-acclaimed? Why does it matter if it has a large fanbase? If something is surrounded by the popular opinion "it's good," that doesn't make it objectively "good." However popular an opinion may be, it's still an opinion.

85% on Metacritic? Well, that means that 15% of those who posted reviews didn't like it. If Yahtzee falls into the 15% that doesn't make his opinion "wrong" or "less valid" than those who are in the 85%. Most Americans adults think that coffee is great, but I hate coffee. I prefer hot tea. Does that make my opinion "wrong" or "less valid" because it's an unpopular opinion? No.

Tastes are always subjective, no matter how popular they are, so no opinion on taste is provably superior. When it comes to matters of taste, popular opinion does not give a taste any more "logical validity," it only gives it "strength in numbers." Unless the fanbase intends to use that strength to bully/harass the outliners (which does happen), popular opinion in matters of taste means nothing. And when said bullying/harrassment occurs, that means that the fanbase is full of twats.

Oh, dear. I'd better get the bugle, since we'll be needing someone to play a dirge shortly.

Mahoshonen:
I must admit I feel a little torn.

On the one hand, I do sympathize with Yahtzee having to deal with this B.S. every time a Nintendo game comes out.

On the other hand, the ensuing shitstorm is incredibly entertaining and I never want it to go away.

Oh, don't worry. As long as there are fanboys, there will be flamewars.
...
..
.
Popcorn?

I prefer it when you don't defend yourself, Yahtzee. Or at least not on this level.

There is no logical reason to hate Nintendo, but you're not talking to reasonable people.

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