No Right Answer: Best Superhero Team Ever

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DCAU >>>> Marvel Movieverse.

And also how does the team getting into constant fights make them a better team?

The Defenders are a better team than Avengers any day of the week...

However lots of points should have been raised. Yes, lots of animated movies by WB, but who cares? The big negative for JL they should have hit was back when there was Justice League Europe and Justice League International and Justice League Ice Station Zebra or whatever...

And the time JL didn't have the big three on the team because DC didn't want JL to taint them! Who'd we get? Booster Gold and Blue Beetle as the main members.

And everyone's a reservist for the JL! They got a whole magic team of Zatanna, Dr Strange and others on speeddial!

And Civil War was rubbish. The Annihilation arc going on at the same time was better. However, anything involving Thanos wins.

This is how I see it...

The Justice League is an organization of super heroes who protect the world on a daily basis because they're a huge majority that can go anywhere (most of the time) and keep in check of all the members because they're that organized.

The Avengers are actually a team, containing only a few members who really have to work together. They are made to make up for the other member's flaw and each skill they have are set for one particular mission. Let's not forget that The Avengers were gathered to become a team, and no one else can just join in like an open membership, which is to say the Justice League is an open membership for all super heroes making them not a team- but rather an organization.

I can be wrong, but yeah that's how I see it overall. Also The Avengers are better... the Justice League to me is to out there. Like, no plot can surprise me when the Justice League is involved (anything can go down) while The Avengers can manage to surprise me somehow, which keeps me interested.

Darth_Payn:
Best line before I forget it: "Patriotism: The Superhero!"
Wow, this was a great debate today. I find both teams have their ups and downs, which I'll elaborate on later after some research. I agree with Chris, though, that if your team is famous for its members fighting each other on a regular basis, that's a point against their favor.

In terms of their teamwork and within their world, yes. But as readers, that internal strife is far more interesting to read because it's essentially drama with super powers. I'd much rather read how Hulk and Thor fight because Thor said something that inadvertently pissed Hulk off than most anything with Superman.

OT: Kyle, I do believe that the Avengers have dealt with reality-saving issues before. I know at least in the cartoon (and probably in the comics) that Loki put the nine-realms in danger and nearly caused Ragnarok, which endangered all of reality.

Depends on if you want the more entertaining team or the one that's better at saving the world from intergalactic doom. Avengers are way more entertaining (what with their narrower powers and occasional intra-team bickering.) But if the fate of the world's on the line, I don't want 'entertaining', I want results.

SilverUchiha:

Darth_Payn:
Best line before I forget it: "Patriotism: The Superhero!"
Wow, this was a great debate today. I find both teams have their ups and downs, which I'll elaborate on later after some research. I agree with Chris, though, that if your team is famous for its members fighting each other on a regular basis, that's a point against their favor.

In terms of their teamwork and within their world, yes. But as readers, that internal strife is far more interesting to read because it's essentially drama with super powers. I'd much rather read how Hulk and Thor fight because Thor said something that inadvertently pissed Hulk off than most anything with Superman.

OT: Kyle, I do believe that the Avengers have dealt with reality-saving issues before. I know at least in the cartoon (and probably in the comics) that Loki put the nine-realms in danger and nearly caused Ragnarok, which endangered all of reality.

The Avengers also always have room on their team for reformed villains (Hawkeye, Quick Silver, Scarlet Witch, The Vision), and they are supported by the personal fortune of a member (Tony Stark, although I would assume the JLA is supported by Bruce Wayne's fortune, but I'm not sure)

I don't think a lot of people understand what a hero is supposed to be in comics. "OH but we can relate better to marvel because theyre more human!" Who cares? You're not supposed to be relating that much to them, THEYRE SUPER HEROES, not everyday joe. They're supposed to be SUPER. What half of Marvel's heroes do is not super. Better than random person? Sure. But not all that super powered comparatively. Comics were made to get away from -our- reality and it sure seems like a lot of Marvel fans want to have their cake and eat it too.

artanis_neravar:
none of it would mater because the Scarlet Witch would destroy them all.

Scarlet Witch? Good luck taking on The Spectre.

Howard the Duck as an Avenger?

I would so pay to see that shit!

Avengers > Justice League

but this was a good idea :)

image

wait.... and it was not the ambiguously gay duo vs the wonder twins ???

that would be the match-up of the century!

Eri:
I don't think a lot of people understand what a hero is supposed to be in comics. "OH but we can relate better to marvel because theyre more human!" Who cares? You're not supposed to be relating that much to them, THEYRE SUPER HEROES, not everyday joe. They're supposed to be SUPER. What half of Marvel's heroes do is not super. Better than random person? Sure. But not all that super powered comparatively. Comics were made to get away from -our- reality and it sure seems like a lot of Marvel fans want to have their cake and eat it too.

artanis_neravar:
none of it would mater because the Scarlet Witch would destroy them all.

Scarlet Witch? Good luck taking on The Spectre.

The Scarlet Witch has power over reality, all she has to do is decide that none of them should exist, and they don't anymore.

IMO, the best superhero team would be Earth's Special Forces.

artanis_neravar:

Eri:
I don't think a lot of people understand what a hero is supposed to be in comics. "OH but we can relate better to marvel because theyre more human!" Who cares? You're not supposed to be relating that much to them, THEYRE SUPER HEROES, not everyday joe. They're supposed to be SUPER. What half of Marvel's heroes do is not super. Better than random person? Sure. But not all that super powered comparatively. Comics were made to get away from -our- reality and it sure seems like a lot of Marvel fans want to have their cake and eat it too.

artanis_neravar:
none of it would mater because the Scarlet Witch would destroy them all.

Scarlet Witch? Good luck taking on The Spectre.

The Scarlet Witch has power over reality, all she has to do is decide that none of them should exist, and they don't anymore.

The Spectre is an aspect of God Itself, the Divine Vengeance incarnate.

I think not sir.

Eri:

artanis_neravar:

Eri:
I don't think a lot of people understand what a hero is supposed to be in comics. "OH but we can relate better to marvel because theyre more human!" Who cares? You're not supposed to be relating that much to them, THEYRE SUPER HEROES, not everyday joe. They're supposed to be SUPER. What half of Marvel's heroes do is not super. Better than random person? Sure. But not all that super powered comparatively. Comics were made to get away from -our- reality and it sure seems like a lot of Marvel fans want to have their cake and eat it too.

Scarlet Witch? Good luck taking on The Spectre.

The Scarlet Witch has power over reality, all she has to do is decide that none of them should exist, and they don't anymore.

The Spectre is an aspect of God Itself, the Divine Vengeance incarnate.

I think not sir.

reality She could make the Spectre cease to exist, she rewrote the entire history of a universe on a whim, and then nearly caused the extinction of the Mutant Race on another. She removed people from existence without a thought, and brought other back into existence.

I'm surprised kyle didn't get a point for mentioning that the JL can keep each other in check as I thought it had some merit to his argument. Still though both teams have their pros and cons and the guys did good this week with the debate.

Still I would have chosen the JSA simply because they have Powergirl.

I'd say it's equal. Marvel has Iron Man, Captain America, Thor, Hulk, Wolverine, Spiderman... As you said, whoever they want/need at the time. And the JLA has Batman.

Honestly, if DC didn't have Batman, they'd be screwed.

Oh yeah, and DCAU > MAU. All the way.

This was one of the best debates I've seen on this webcast, and I can't wait to see the arguments more in depth when the No Right Explanation comes out for this one.

My two cents: I agree that as far as most interesting to read the Avengers are better because their characters are more "human" and are thus themselves more interesting. However, with their line-up being so fluid I'm note sure they'd win out in the "team" part of the debate.

I was disappointed that Chris didn't go with X-Men, because those guys have been through so much crap and yet have managed to remain together (largely). I've always found them, and all their spinoff/subteams (especially New Mutants and the grittier X-Force) to be the most interesting to read.

One final note on the Scarlet Witch debate: much as I hate to point this out, if she is so all-powerful how come her attempt to eliminate all mutants didn't have a 100% success rate?

Damn it Chris, you were supposed to say that you had a "marvelous" question this week!

Also the best superhero team is either 60s Batman and Robin or the Justice Friends. Justice friends, justice frenzy!

Justice League wins, I loved the Avengers movie but as teams go, even the Justice League Abridged team beat them. The Avengers aren't a thing and the interest almost comes from the heroes themselves. Even with the Avengers film it felt like we had an Iron Man film, a Hulk film and a Thor film, they were connected and teamwork was a big thing but it was more about each person and where they come from and how they play with others.

Whereas the Justice League are a team, they all have different roles, they're together because they can do more together and it stops being 'How do Batman and Superman interact with each other' and becomes 'How do Batman and Superman interact together in the Justice League'

That Moviebob quote better be legit.

TheFederation:
i prefer watchmen

Exactly what group are you referring to? Because that graphic novel has two groups, and neither of them are called "Watchmen".

Darth_Payn:
Best line before I forget it: "Patriotism: The Superhero!"
Wow, this was a great debate today. I find both teams have their ups and downs, which I'll elaborate on later after some research. I agree with Chris, though, that if your team is famous for its members fighting each other on a regular basis, that's a point against their favor.

But before like a year ago, wasn't superman also "Patriotism: the superhero"

Oh and not picking x-men?
racist. against mutants.

Anyways Dc vs marvel. The score will always end up "Dc has better villains, Marvel has better heroes."

But yeah, Martian Manhunter and Superman. Kind of make the team lame. Considering Manhunter can Mind control people and be like wassup wassup.

But yeah if i were kyle i would of brought up the black lantern/white lantern stories. While it wasn't Justice League, that shit is pretty boss.
Also Hulk=over powered piece of shit. Who can beat superman given superman doesn't 1 hit KO him

Fantastic Four would beat any team that either DC or Marvel could assemble, solely because Reed would be able to invent a Macguffin in under 5 minutes to handle the situation almost effortlessly. I mean, hell, during the JLA / Avengers crossover, he slaps together an interdimensional hoverbike just so The Thing could show up in the DC universe to say, "What's up?"

I feel like the debate went off track even though I'm glad The Avengers won. But if physically the 2 were to meet in a fight I think JL would win.

That stated I think this was more about Marvel Vs DC as a franchise. And I think Marvel tends to be better IMO.

When it comes to hating reality & turning to fiction.
DC: Meh, you got problems? I can destroy just about all of my problems!
Marvel: We may have the same problems as you. Which means you can vicariously live through us & view how we solve them!
Me: Leaning toward Marvel.

When it comes to adapting with the times.
DC: Screw with adapting with the times! Most if not all my characters fit in to the 1950! Except Batman who's like in the 1920s-1930s. And Lobo who was retconned in the 1990s.... But we're sure Lobo sucks since Movie Bob would agree with us that the 90s suck.... But then again everything after the 1950s sucks.
Marvel: Most of our characters adapt with the times. Sometimes Captain America doesn't. But its a reminder that he fought in WW2. And is trying to adjust to the times. Or in some cases may have a better concept of what America should be. Not what some (crooked) politician may turn it into.
Me: Leaning toward Marvel.

In franchise Vs.
DC: Ah BS! MK vs DC made us look bad. So bad Warner bought the MK franchise from a dying Midway. Sure it was bad because we watered it down to a T. But hey we rather not damage our wholesome 1950 image. Yeah we could've went with characters like Lobo for an M rating. But why make it an MK vs DC game if we're not going to Super Glue our main franchises to it? We had great games before that like Superman 64 & that Aqua Man game which was good enough to make a reward called "The Golden Mullet" in it's honor!
Marvel: MvC2 is a major Cult Hit. So much so we were happy to have MvC3. And later on Ultimate MvC3.
Me: Confused by DC's final statement & leaning toward Marvel.

In Movies.
DC: Yeah we don't know what we're doing beyond Batman without Robin right. So we're hoping to screw up Batman 3! That way people will beg us for a Batman & Robin Movie! And we can go back to when they wore rubber thongs! The awesomeness of rubber thongs!
Marvel: What's wrong with you?! How can you hate on the FF yet enjoy every movie of ours you've seen including the FF movies?! Okay you started hating X-Men movies after X3.... But still what's wrong with you?!
Me: Ignoring Marvel's logic. Creeped out by DC's rubber thong fetish. And leaning toward Marvel.

Animation
DC: we have the better continuity in our animations. And sometimes we had Lobo.... Come on.... you have to had like those more than Marvel's constant rebooting of their franchises.... Right?
Marvel: Okay some of our animations were really bad.... Like The Silver Surfer cartoon.... But we did have you're favorite Marvel character, Deadpool in Hulk vs Wolverine.
Me: Deadpool wins!.... But seriously I want more Lobo.

In MMOs
DC: We actually released a MMO. And there is no Lobo. "Maybe someday" when we magically care about "Your Opinion" but fat chance of that happening.
Marvel: It'll be done when its done.... Wait.... ignore that statement.... We'll have more news on a Marvel MMO someday....
Me: Ignoring MMO.... Unless PS Home counts.... PS Home wins then is quickly DQ'ed....

On PS Home
DC: We gave you a Bat Cave thanks to BAA.
Marvel: We're selling generic T Shirts. Won't you please buy these generic T Shirts? So far we're not going to do anything serious on PS Home. So accept buying our generic T Shirts already! We even have a generic Deadpool T Shirt!
Me: No contest. DC wins here.

BAA vs any Marvel Games I've played
Batman wins. Nuff Said.

Why doesn't Warner Bros. make a Justice League movie?

Because Green Lantern, Superman Returns, and Batman Forever exist... and Wonder Woman doesn't (cancelled). Don't even get me started on that crappy Flash movie... Lord only knows what they'll do with characters like Martian Manhunter or HawkMan/HawkGirl.

But as to who the best team is? We'll have to find out when the crossover comic is published.

Incidentally: Dr. Strange > everyone.

Wow, people liked Civil War? It was terrible...

artanis_neravar:
]Wolverine would beat Batman, Thor would fight Superman, Quicksilver could take on the Flash, Ms Marvel could fight Wonderwoman, Vision could go up against the Martian Manhunter, Iron Man would occupy Green Lantern, and none of it would mater because the Scarlet Witch would destroy them all.

Wolverine could beat Batman, but Batman could also beat Wolverine. He's beaten countless 'great martial artist with weapons' before. Keep in mind he doesn't need to kill him (and wouldn't anyway), only knock him out. That being said, the natural pairing for Batman in the Avenger is captain america, not wolverine.

Thor vs Supes is a natural pairing... and while Thor is powerful, he has only shown power in the same level as Superman when he has odin's power, otherwise, it's really a no contest - if Thor doesn't have Odin's power, Superman can pretty much take the entirety of the Avengers by himself.

Quicksilver vs Flash is just ugly... the fight has happened in a crossover and sadly for Quicksilver, while they are both speedsters, they are in two different weight category - Quicksilver can run several hundred kilometers per hours... Flash can run so fast he can time travel. QS has no chance in this.

Ms Marvel vs Wonderwoman & Vison vs Manhunter ... I'm actually not familiar enough to say who would here, but if you look at the fact the WW can hold her own against Supes and than Ms. Marvel isn't as powerful as Thor...

Iron Man vs GL isn't even a contest again, Green Lantern is very close in power to Superman and would be a match for people like the Silver Surfer in the Marvel U...

Well, I think we need to replace one of the guys on this debate team for not being able to hold up his end.

I mean honestly, someone is saying "The Avengers are a better TEAM because they have strife and fight each other"... WTF? A Team is based around unity, as a team The Justice League is far superior if you want to rate them that way BECAUSE they act like a TEAM.

What's more a solid membership should be a plus, in general you know who is in the JLA, it's a team of the same guys getting together. The Avengers can't be considered remotely unified.

See, the thing between them is that the JLA is a flagship title, with all of the big names in DC comics being present together. The Avengers on the other hand seems to mostly be a dumping ground for characters that are flagging in popularity, if a character can't hold down a book on their own, but still has a fan base, they get put into the Avengers for a while, then they either recover or go on to just doing cameos or disappearing entirely. The Avengers is also a way of getting exposure for new creations Marvel isn't so sure on.

In general The Avengers usually has one or two big name heroes holding it down, while it does happen it is RARELY an all star cast of Marvel's biggest characters all working together.

If you take a look at say the original Storyline, you'll notice that the team that formed to fight Loki didn't exactly stay together permanantly from that point on, they all kind of went on to do their own thing, and it was lesser characters that kind of held it down, characters like The Wasp, or Giant Man, have been on the team more consistantly than say "The Hulk" who moves in and out of actively working with the avengers based on company wide events, and apparently how well his own books are doing. This is why they have such a huge roster, and so many characters have moved through the team.

Don't get me wrong, I like Marvel comics a *lot* more than the DC universe, but as far as team books go, I think DC has been ahead. DC seems to understand a team should consist of the same characters with an evolving dynamic, rather than changing every dozen issues or so. There are exceptions in DC, but even in their spin offs like "Wildstorm" I think the Wildcats, Authority, Gen-13, and other titles outdo the Avengers when rated specifically as
a team book.

Probably the only thing worse than The Avengers as far as team solidarity goes is the X-men which has changed rosters and spawned so many sub-teams and spin offs that it's bloody ridiculous. At least with The Avengers most fans can tell you who the original members were, with the X-men I tend to run into more ignorance with people who think characters like Wolverine were original X-men which is kind of funny given that he seemed to appear as an intended one shot character in The Hulk. :)

Marvel just generally can't build or hold down team books, DC can. DC is better for that kind of comic even if I don't like their universe as much.

Davroth:
The Justice League is the most powerful team, there is no argument. The power level of DC universe is far higher then the Marvel universe.

If we go by most interesting, I prefer the Titans. (Or if you want to go more obscure, the Shadow Pact was far more interesting.)

Thats why I never understood Batman hanging around. A multimillinaire elitist vigilante who comes down from his ivory tower at night to beats up and imprison the poor, the disabled, the mentally ill and ethnic minorities. Hes no Superman. Really?

Ironman is a far better Batman than Batman could ever be.

Tarkand:

Wolverine could beat Batman, but Batman could also beat Wolverine. He's beaten countless 'great martial artist with weapons' before. Keep in mind he doesn't need to kill him (and wouldn't anyway), only knock him out. That being said, the natural pairing for Batman in the Avenger is captain america, not wolverine.

Ironman is the natural pairing. Multibillionnaire businessmen who beat their opponents by throwing money at the problem. Ayn Rands wet dream.

And Ironman is the only winner in that one.

bjj hero:

Thats why I never understood Batman hanging around. A multimillinaire elitist vigilante who comes down from his ivory tower at night to beats up and imprison the poor, the disabled, the mentally ill and ethnic minorities. Hes no Superman. Really?

Ironman is a far better Batman than Batman could ever be.

I'll go with serious answer. The reason why Batman is such a big shot in the DC universe is simple. He's popular with the fans. No other reason. The same deal with Superman and Wonderwoman. Problem is, when you are part of such a powerful trio, the writers have to push your power a little to make you a competition. So what did they do with Batman? He's the smartest guy ever. The bestest detective. Plus, he's got a plan for ever metahuman on the planet, should they go rouge. And lots of more stuff. :I

The same thing happened in the Marvel universe, with Wolverine. Only in Wolverine's case, they made him practically immortal. (Unlike Batman, where they just hope we forget how old Bruce Wayne is (Iknowtheyareaddressingthatnowbutshutupitsbeenridiculousforforever))

DC has always struggled to keep my favor. None of the characters seem as interesting as Marvel characters, with the possible exception of Batman(I've only read 1 Superman comic that interested me and he spent the entire time walking around telling people how to solve their own problems). As far as characters go, Marvel almost always wins. The Avengers have a lineup assembled more from necessity, while the core of JL are just the best at what they do.

When we break down the characters from each series (assuming everyone at full levels of stupid powerful) JL wins until we get to the Hulk. Who has been written as getting stronger and healing faster as he gets more angry. Therefore, after a certain amount of rage, he is healing any wounds he gets as he gets them. Unprepared, the Hulk would just physically break the entire JL. Given time to prepare, Bruce Banner would science himself up a super McGuffin to protect him as the Hulk while he breaks the entire JL.

Davroth:

I'll go with serious answer. The reason why Batman is such a big shot in the DC universe is simple. He's popular with the fans. No other reason. The same deal with Superman and Wonderwoman. Problem is, when you are part of such a powerful trio, the writers have to push your power a little to make you a competition. So what did they do with Batman? He's the smartest guy ever. The bestest detective. Plus, he's got a plan for ever metahuman on the planet, should they go rouge. And lots of more stuff. :I

The same thing happened in the Marvel universe, with Wolverine. Only in Wolverine's case, they made him practically immortal. (Unlike Batman, where they just hope we forget how old Bruce Wayne is (Iknowtheyareaddressingthatnowbutshutupitsbeenridiculousforforever))

I guess thats my point. I love Batman as a charecter but Gotham city is a big part of him. Take him out of GC and he doesn't work for me. Fighting criminals with wits and superior tech. That works. JL? Not so much for me. As the intel guy, if he wasnt batman he wouldnt even have a face. Youd see him once every 6 episodes back at base othrewise he'd just be a voice in an earpeice. But its batman so hes shoehorned in.

Having said that, my favourite vigilante hero has to be Punisher. Frank Castle is a nam vet with PTSD on a rampage. You cant help but think he may have been alright with the right support and counselling. Hes also not as elitist as Ironman or Batman which I like. Those pair are poster boys for the upperclass, the 1% and their right to rule.

Seriously kyle? The Justice League has just as open a membership as the avengers. It's just that DC doesn't constantly come up with heroes worth adding.

albinoterrorist:
Pssh.
Justice League should have won.
They have Aquaman.
They can use WHALES!
WHAAAALLEEEESS!

Sub-Mariner can totally do stuff with whales.

My submission is what I thought the debate was when I first read it. What is the best super-hero TEAM UP? likemarvel team-up. Ya The weirder combonation the better. Let's not be boring or talk about a team up that happens over and over (batman and superman have teamed up like 1000 times)

My favorite Spider-Man and Blade.

Im not sure if that is a real shirt or not but I would totally buy it if it was

Avengers win because they are weaker and disorganized? Then I propose Watchmen (On second thought they are stronger with Mr. Manhattan).

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