Kickstarter: Proceed with Caution

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Kickstarter: Proceed with Caution

Shamus takes a peek into Kickstarter game funding.

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Maybe I'm naive, but I assume everyone (OK...just about everyone) knows that backing a project on Kickstarter isn't like buying a game off a shelf. The details will be fuzzy, and there will always be a risk. I just assume that people in general accept that risk.

I know cynicism soon follows the tide of goodwill, but hopefully people won't overreact when a project fails. You're not buying a game, you're backing the development of it. Receiving the game (assuming you donated enough, which usually isn't that much) is a bonus. Despite the risk and the inevitable blowback in reaction to scams or failure, Kickstarter is great to me because it can reinvigorate niche genres.

I have to say I agree. All the risk is being carried by the consumer and all the rewards are sitting with the developers. This level of imbalance between risk/reward is going to unwind at some point. The additional danger is that most of these kickstarters don't have a legal advice when they put there plan up. From a legal stand point they aren't written that well and can be read as committing themselves to providing things like drm free copies of the game via steam without realising it. This is a mistake that even huge companies make, i.e Apple advertising 4g on the new Ipad when 4g it is only available in the US, leading them to have refund money in Australia and to be under investigation in the EU. We live in the world were gamers take legal action because they don't like the end of story, so the risk is real.

DustyDrB:
Maybe I'm naive, but I assume everyone (OK...just about everyone) knows that backing a project on Kickstarter isn't like buying a game off a shelf. The details will be fuzzy, and there will always be a risk. I just assume that people in general accept that risk.

I know cynicism soon follows the tide of goodwill, but hopefully people won't overreact when a project fails. You're not buying a game, you're backing the development of it. Receiving the game (assuming you donated enough, which usually isn't that much) is a bonus. Despite the risk and the inevitable blowback in reaction to scams or failure, Kickstarter is great to me because it can reinvigorate niche genres.

I think the problem is that people already don't treat buying a game off a shelf as buying a game off a shelf. There are already far too many assumptions about the game being made specifically for their tastes and in perfect form technically despite sometimes mountains of evidence that may suggest (or downright state outright) otherwise. And this is for completed titles that they have had months or even years of "warnings" about.

I would rather not take the cynical stance but pre-ownership was already a problem before KickStarter became the big thing so it's rather hard not to.

so far ive backed wasteland 2, shadowrun returns and grim dawn.. im hoping they will be released and be good but yeah in the end its hope for the best plan for the worst situation

albino boo:
All the risk is being carried by the consumer and all the rewards are sitting with the developers. This level of imbalance between risk/reward is going to unwind at some point.

Here's the thing about this statement though. I (and many others) are perfectly fine with assuming the risk if it means its the developers getting the money and not publishers. A lot (not the majority, but still a lot) of the support these games have gotten is coming from this sentiment. If Wasteland 2 fails I'm out $50. So what? At least I enabled a developer to continue having a job without having their passion for making games get sucked dry by a publisher. I am so fucking sick of every developer I love lose their jobs to the epitomes of human excrement that make up a publisher's executive board.

This Kickstarter thin

StriderShinryu:

DustyDrB:
Maybe I'm naive, but I assume everyone (OK...just about everyone) knows that backing a project on Kickstarter isn't like buying a game off a shelf. The details will be fuzzy, and there will always be a risk. I just assume that people in general accept that risk.

I know cynicism soon follows the tide of goodwill, but hopefully people won't overreact when a project fails. You're not buying a game, you're backing the development of it. Receiving the game (assuming you donated enough, which usually isn't that much) is a bonus. Despite the risk and the inevitable blowback in reaction to scams or failure, Kickstarter is great to me because it can reinvigorate niche genres.

I think the problem is that people already don't treat buying a game off a shelf as buying a game off a shelf. There are already far too many assumptions about the game being made specifically for their tastes and in perfect form technically despite sometimes mountains of evidence that may suggest (or downright state outright) otherwise. And this is for completed titles that they have had months or even years of "warnings" about.

I would rather not take the cynical stance but pre-ownership was already a problem before KickStarter became the big thing so it's rather hard not to.

Actually this is what pisses me off about gamers. The fucking entitlement. That because you bought a game, you have a right to sth other than what you bought off the shelf. Usually its just criticism you hear, wich is fine, criticism and opinions are good for quality check. But then you get shit like Mass Effect 3, with the PUTTING A PETITION WITH THE FCC FOR SUEING BIOWARE and that guilt trick called Retake Mass Effect. Or when you hear about Project 10 dollar or About some Day One DLC, as if the consumer has a say on how the developer makes the game hes selling. People need to diferentiate between what you have a right to and what you dont. This is nothing to do with criticism or with feeling betrayed. Thats ok, you can have those feelings and express them and make them public. Criticism is ok. whats not ok, is telling someone that they screwed you over and that you have a right to sth more, because you bought a 60 dollar game and thought it was gonna be sth it wasnt.

MvC3 didnt come with some characters? ok say that was a bad move, dont say youre entitled to it.
Prothean Day One DLC? Ok say that you feel as if they should of given this with the game, dont say youre entitled to it.
ME3 ending sucks? ok. say it was bad. dont fucking SUE THEM cause it was bad.
Tekken vs SF characters unlockable thru payment? Ok, say this is anti consumerist and a negative note on the game, dont fucking sue them and demand them to unlock it.

People love seeing things in black and white.

And i know, not everyone is lke this, but the outcries out there are like this.

Anyone else kind of feel like Shamus always publishes articles saying the same thing as everyone else a week or two later? I think he's a good writer, but he always seems to be repeating points I've heard articulated long before. Also I miss Stolen Pixels...

OT I've only backed one project on Kickstarter (freddiew's VGHS) so I'm not super familiar with it, but I think even with the potential dangers it poses its ultimately a good thing. The more ways there are to get a game made, the better. Right now its a problem because everyone is using it, but I think eventually that will die down and not every developer and its dog will be throwing something up on Kickstarter.

matrix3509:

albino boo:
All the risk is being carried by the consumer and all the rewards are sitting with the developers. This level of imbalance between risk/reward is going to unwind at some point.

Here's the thing about this statement though. I (and many others) are perfectly fine with assuming the risk if it means its the developers getting the money and not publishers. A lot (not the majority, but still a lot) of the support these games have gotten is coming from this sentiment. If Wasteland 2 fails I'm out $50. So what? At least I enabled a developer to continue having a job without having their passion for making games get sucked dry by a publisher. I am so fucking sick of every developer I love lose their jobs to the epitomes of human excrement that make up a publisher's executive board.

The problem lies not with your thinking but the assumption that all 87,142 people that have contributed to the double fine kickstarter are going to feel the same permanently. This is gamers that we are talking about here after all. Things go in cycles, just look the forums here 2-3 years ago steam was evil and now its not and I bet in 2 years time it will be hated again. Tim Schafer has record of shooting his mouth off, can you be sure he won't say something in the next 6 months that will make him figure of hate. This the internet we are dealing with here, a place were the opinions swap from one extreme to the other in the blink of an eye, not always with good reason.

albino boo:

matrix3509:

albino boo:
All the risk is being carried by the consumer and all the rewards are sitting with the developers. This level of imbalance between risk/reward is going to unwind at some point.

Here's the thing about this statement though. I (and many others) are perfectly fine with assuming the risk if it means its the developers getting the money and not publishers. A lot (not the majority, but still a lot) of the support these games have gotten is coming from this sentiment. If Wasteland 2 fails I'm out $50. So what? At least I enabled a developer to continue having a job without having their passion for making games get sucked dry by a publisher. I am so fucking sick of every developer I love lose their jobs to the epitomes of human excrement that make up a publisher's executive board.

The problem lies not with your thinking but the assumption that all 87,142 people that have contributed to the double fine kickstarter are going to feel the same permanently. This is gamers that we are talking about here after all. Things go in cycles, just look the forums here 2-3 years ago steam was evil and now its not and I bet in 2 years time it will be hated again. Tim Schafer has record of shooting his mouth off, can you be sure he won't say something in the next 6 months that will make him figure of hate. This the internet we are dealing with here, a place were the opinions swap from one extreme to the other in the blink of an eye, not always with good reason.

I agree that all the backers aren't going to feel the same as I do, which is why I had that caveat. I will bet the total money I spent on Kickstarter these past few months (which is a lot) that many people DO feel that way. Why? Because we've seen evidence that the developers themselves feel this way. I realize its dangerous to make this assumption, but I'm going with my gut feeling, and I'm sticking with it to the end. I can only assume I won't be the only one.

draythefingerless:

Actually this is what pisses me off about gamers. The fucking entitlement. That because you bought a game, you have a right to sth other than what you bought off the shelf. Usually its just criticism you hear, wich is fine, criticism and opinions are good for quality check. But then you get shit like Mass Effect 3, with the PUTTING A PETITION WITH THE FCC FOR SUEING BIOWARE and that guilt trick called Retake Mass Effect. Or when you hear about Project 10 dollar or About some Day One DLC, as if the consumer has a say on how the developer makes the game hes selling. People need to diferentiate between what you have a right to and what you dont. This is nothing to do with criticism or with feeling betrayed. Thats ok, you can have those feelings and express them and make them public. Criticism is ok. whats not ok, is telling someone that they screwed you over and that you have a right to sth more, because you bought a 60 dollar game and thought it was gonna be sth it wasnt.

MvC3 didnt come with some characters? ok say that was a bad move, dont say youre entitled to it.
Prothean Day One DLC? Ok say that you feel as if they should of given this with the game, dont say youre entitled to it.
ME3 ending sucks? ok. say it was bad. dont fucking SUE THEM cause it was bad.
Tekken vs SF characters unlockable thru payment? Ok, say this is anti consumerist and a negative note on the game, dont fucking sue them and demand them to unlock it.

People love seeing things in black and white.

And i know, not everyone is lke this, but the outcries out there are like this.

Please... just please fucking stop using the word entitlement, its the goddamned Godwin's Law of gaming discussion, its hyperbolic at best, and disengenuous at worst. When you advertise every game you make as being the best fucking thing ever, not to mention outright lie about game content, do not be surprised when people get pissed. You don't see other products offering free blowjobs with every purchase, hence why other industries don't have to deal with this shit.

As an FYI the games that EA are selling were created by studios not owned by EA without EA's money as far as I can tell. Certainly since Deathspank was started in 2008, released in 2010 and they signed a deal with EA in 2010, EA's money wasn't involved. I think EA partners involves EA taking a cut of the money in return for some marketing, so I don't see why that would change a games indie status

There's also a limit to how much people will help kickstart. There needs to be time between great projects(Like what I expect Wasteland 2 to be).

Also;

Publishers have basically been gambling for the last few years. They dump tens of millions of dollars into a project. If it goes well, they turn it into a franchise and make copies until the public is sick of it. If it fails, they close a studio, fire the developers, and blame it all on used games.

Way to hitting the nail on the head. If only people with big money could think this far ahead.

While I thought of it as a good thing for gamers and developers of niche genres, I always figured that someone will attempt to make a project to get money, and than vanish, leaving the people who donated with empty wallets and broken hearts.

Thats also why I felt a game like that tactical, SWAT like FPS from some time back was a bad gamble. They wernt even making a finished game, they were using the funds to make a Alpha to show off and hopefully get a publisher.

Shamus Young:
Kickstarter: Proceed with Caution

Shamus takes a peek into Kickstarter game funding.

Read Full Article

And with this, I somewhat feel justified in my opinion of Kickstarter now.

Didn't Jonathan Blow throw a mountain of money at Braid? It's weird seeing it thrown around as an example of 2,000 dollar games.

Though I mostly wanted to comment on the last point, major companies passing stuff off as indie. Before I even thought about the possibility of actual scams, I thought the next stage would be major developers and producers coming to us with their hands out, whether in the "indie" guise or not.

I'm skeptical about Kickstarter. Granted, if I see the right one, I'll probably support it. Kind of wish I knew about the Shadowrun kickstarter, because DROOOOOL.

Otherwise...Proceed with caution indeed.

Continuing the theme of cynicism, even if Devs are genuinely making games, not scaming people, there must be some temptation to over spend on 'expenses' (like lunch) when you don't have a publisher lauding over you and if it's a game people really want you can say you are near completion but ran out of money and people will give you more.

DustyDrB:
Maybe I'm naive, but I assume everyone (OK...just about everyone) knows that backing a project on Kickstarter isn't like buying a game off a shelf. The details will be fuzzy, and there will always be a risk. I just assume that people in general accept that risk.

The Retake Mass Effect movement showed me that there are a lot of people who don't.

I love the idea of crowdfunding too. But this brief moment of good feeling as everyone discovers it isn't going to last forever. I'll be using Kickstarter for my own projects, but only after I know I can get a project of that size completed on time and under budget.

To be honest we can do this kind of market ajustment without crowdfunding. The big publishers are just to retarded to sit up and take notice. Here is a list of fabulous games that hit the $1-$3 million sweet spot;

**Ahem**

ARMA II
Mount and Blade
Mount & Blade: Warband
Stalker; Shadow of Chernobly
Stalker; Clear Sky
Stalker; Call of Pripyat
The Witcher
Metro 2033
Sins of a Solar Empire
Sins of a Solar Empire; Entrenchment/Dipolmacy

All of these games reportedly made a profit, all were PC games and with the exception of Sins of a solar empire all of them were made in europe.

Why can't we fund a team of hungry developers in say, Manchester England for a modest £500,000 project? Why make one big game were you can make a whole crop of medium sized games with actually not that much difference in quality. A good, lean team on a tight budget with creative ideas can produce a game like Metro 2033 for a fraction of the risk of a game like Homefront. When you fail, you don't lose it all and that means that you can afford to take creative risks.

What does this mean? Well it means greater IP creation, greater change of finding and developing AAA tandard teams with good ideas and generally more good games for everyone. When a MW3 or an Old Republic fails it can take a company with it. You have to sell millions upon millions to recoup your losses. A game like Metro 2033 can sell in the region of 200K and still turn a profit.

I think kickstarter is a good concept. I allows freedom from evil publishers, although this also creates greater greif if projects flops.

matrix3509:
You don't see other products offering free blowjobs with every purchase, hence why other industries don't have to deal with this shit.

...have you never seen beer adverts?

Anyway, my main confusion with Kickstarter is all in the profit margin. Presumably, most of the people who will end up buying Wasteland 2... already have. And the devs have put this into their creation budget. They've basically taken a ridiculously large sales cut before the game is even out of the gate, and I'm really not sure how they're supposed to make that back.

SirBryghtside:

matrix3509:
You don't see other products offering free blowjobs with every purchase, hence why other industries don't have to deal with this shit.

...have you never seen beer adverts?

Anyway, my main confusion with Kickstarter is all in the profit margin. Presumably, most of the people who will end up buying Wasteland 2... already have. And the devs have put this into their creation budget. They've basically taken a ridiculously large sales cut before the game is even out of the gate, and I'm really not sure how they're supposed to make that back.

That's some of the beauty - they're not trying to make a large profit. Since they owe precisely $0 dollars to publishers and investors, the game's up-front budget will keep the developers in food and shelter while allowing them to do the job that they love best. If they're so inclined (after proving that the system works), rinse and repeat ad infinitum.

Now, this isn't allowing for the fact that any sale upon release (as in every sale) is pure profit and there'll be a few sales at least.

EDIT : Well, to clarify, when I say "pure profit", I know that they'll pay some of the money to whatever distribution service they use, I just mean that instead of having to attempt to recoup spent money, any money made upon release is theirs to spend on future games/cocaine.

Scrumpmonkey:
To be honest we can do this kind of market ajustment without crowdfunding. The big publishers are just to retarded to sit up and take notice. Here is a list of fabulous games that hit the $1-$3 million sweet spot;

**Ahem**

ARMA II
Mount and Blade
Mount & Blade: Warband
Stalker; Shadow of Chernobly
Stalker; Clear Sky
Stalker; Call of Pripyat
The Witcher
Metro 2033
Sins of a Solar Empire
Sins of a Solar Empire; Entrenchment/Dipolmacy

All of these games reportedly made a profit, all were PC games and with the exception of Sins of a solar empire all of them were made in europe.

Why can't we fund a team of hungry developers in say, Manchester England for a modest £500,000 project? Why make one big game were you can make a whole crop of medium sized games with actually not that much difference in quality. A good, lean team on a tight budget with creative ideas can produce a game like Metro 2033 for a fraction of the risk of a game like Homefront. When you fail, you don't lose it all and that means that you can afford to take creative risks.

What does this mean? Well it means greater IP creation, greater change of finding and developing AAA tandard teams with good ideas and generally more good games for everyone. When a MW3 or an Old Republic fails it can take a company with it. You have to sell millions upon millions to recoup your losses. A game like Metro 2033 can sell in the region of 200K and still turn a profit.

Well what you also need to take into account is the country that the games are made in, eg wages in the Czech Republic (ARMA 2), Ukraine (STALKER, Metro 2033), and Poland (Witcher) are a fair bit lower than in North America, Japan, or west Europe, so you can get a far larger game with a lot less cash. If STALKER had been made in the US, it would probably have cost just as much as your typical mid-tier big-budget shooter (eg, a Black or a Prey rather than a CoD or a Bioshock).

albino boo:
We live in the world were gamers take legal action because they don't like the end of story, so the risk is real.

Could people please stop saying shit like this? It was one fucking guy. Since when does one person doing something become a general description of a group of people? By this same logic, we live in a world where gamers hunt down and kill people for killing them in a game.

Just stop bringing up the god damned FTC suit already. It was a clear attention grab, and everyone agrees he was a fucking idiot.

The downside I thought you'd mention is that with all these people trying to get Kickstarter projects now, it splits the paying audience, and so things will fail more...

wintercoat:

albino boo:
We live in the world were gamers take legal action because they don't like the end of story, so the risk is real.

Could people please stop saying shit like this? It was one fucking guy. Since when does one person doing something become a general description of a group of people? By this same logic, we live in a world where gamers hunt down and kill people for killing them in a game.

Just stop bringing up the god damned FTC suit already. It was a clear attention grab, and everyone agrees he was a fucking idiot.

Thing is, one is all it takes. If a kickstarted game falls through, and one guy decides to sue the company for effectively stealing his money, and some (idiotic) judge agrees with him, that's precedence. From the viewpoint of someone who doesn't understand how the development process works, and I think we can lump a large percentage of court overseers into this category, and given a bit of crafty wording by a lawyer, it can be made very apparent that this company took this man's money, promising a game in return, but did not deliver, hence thievery.

Or, he could decide to launch a class action, and actually get a large group of people to sue; I think that's when one person doing something becomes a general description of a group. And you can't tell me no-one would support him; it doesn't really matter where your sense of morality sits on this one, the promise of a big fat payout is usually a great incentive to forgo the high road.

Doesn't matter how many people are backing a project, it only takes one.

wintercoat:

albino boo:
We live in the world were gamers take legal action because they don't like the end of story, so the risk is real.

Could people please stop saying shit like this? It was one fucking guy. Since when does one person doing something become a general description of a group of people? By this same logic, we live in a world where gamers hunt down and kill people for killing them in a game.

Just stop bringing up the god damned FTC suit already. It was a clear attention grab, and everyone agrees he was a fucking idiot.

Everyone except the FTC who agreed he had a point. I don't think it would ultimately be all that helpful if publishers couldn't lie blatantly and openly about the features of a game and instead had to lie sneakily but the FTC do and exist to enforce that line.

Rack:

wintercoat:

albino boo:
We live in the world were gamers take legal action because they don't like the end of story, so the risk is real.

Could people please stop saying shit like this? It was one fucking guy. Since when does one person doing something become a general description of a group of people? By this same logic, we live in a world where gamers hunt down and kill people for killing them in a game.

Just stop bringing up the god damned FTC suit already. It was a clear attention grab, and everyone agrees he was a fucking idiot.

Everyone except the FTC who agreed he had a point. I don't think it would ultimately be all that helpful if publishers couldn't lie blatantly and openly about the features of a game and instead had to lie sneakily but the FTC do and exist to enforce that line.

It was a woman at the Better Business Bureau that stated that Bioware and EA were guilty of false advertising. And I agree, they are. However, this was not a case that needed federal attention. Filing with the FTC was moronic, and again a clear attention grab.

I can't help but wish that the people making the big financial decisions were businessmen AND gamers. It doesn't seem too unreasonable, I know plenty of people who study business and play video games. Oh well, maybe we'll see that change in years to come.

On topic: I'm interested in the new kickstarter trend but not optimistic. I think the first complete games that come out of it will really define what's to come of it. Even if there are problems down the road (Which I suspect there will be), if we have a few good examples of how kickstarter is supposed to work at the start we'll have a sense of confidence in the system. If the first few projects disappoint or fail then I think future projects will have a hard time restoring confidence in potential backers.

Captcha: that's right

Well if the captcha agrees then I must be right~!

DustyDrB:
Maybe I'm naive, but I assume everyone (OK...just about everyone) knows that backing a project on Kickstarter isn't like buying a game off a shelf. The details will be fuzzy, and there will always be a risk. I just assume that people in general accept that risk.

I know cynicism soon follows the tide of goodwill, but hopefully people won't overreact when a project fails. You're not buying a game, you're backing the development of it. Receiving the game (assuming you donated enough, which usually isn't that much) is a bonus. Despite the risk and the inevitable blowback in reaction to scams or failure, Kickstarter is great to me because it can reinvigorate niche genres.

You are naive. There are a ton of self important and entitled people who will flip out if a project they backed gets cancelled. Expect people to curse and moan, to say they are going to sue, to say they got "ripped off". I am just talking about a legit project that fails. I don't think most people even realize what exactly Kickstarter is or what it means when they back a game.

Shamus Young:
Publishers have basically been gambling for the last few years. They dump tens of millions of dollars into a project. If it goes well, they turn it into a franchise and make copies until the public is sick of it. If it fails, they close a studio, fire the developers, and blame it all on used games.

This man speaks the truth. I can't see how we all miss this so frequently.

A quick note Wasteland 2 raised over 3 million when you add in the Paypal funds. Now then I agree that there's plenty of scams on there already and some of them are have already succeeded. Echoes of Eternia comes to mind. Though if you want to get into semantics it could be considered not a scam if they actually make a game but it still is asking for $10,000 to make a game with a free engine. They have gotten $40,000 for this....if you'll now excuse me I have my own kickstarter to make called Yx The Solemn Vow in Felghana.

Not picking on Shamus in particular, but I am tiring of hearing every single game voice pointing out that one day a kickstarter project will fail to deliver. This is pretty obvious and it's not that much different from buying a normal game. If by now people haven't realized they have to be careful with their "puchases" then it's their own fault.

draythefingerless:
PUTTING A PETITION WITH THE FCC

Oh no! Consumers go through the correct means when products are falsely advertised! How dare they compromise artistic integrity by complaining when something was falsely advertised!

Sigh.

You know what? Disagreeing with the Retake Mass Effect movement is fine. Even loathing the movement is fine. However, complaining about people going through the proper channels when a product was obviously falsely advertised is just bloody stupid. Why should games be exempt from false advertising laws? Why is it a false sense of entiltement when we expect that games can't just blatantly lie to get sales?

TL;DR - You sound like an idiot who has jumped on the crying over "something something entiltement" fad.

Shamus Young:
Kickstarter: Proceed with Caution

Shamus takes a peek into Kickstarter game funding.

Read Full Article

I really hope you're right, because I believe the Kickstarter method of funding won't survive and I desperately want it to. I mean, I'm getting a proper bloody Shadowrun game out of it making Kickstarter the most awesome thing since Inception. How could I not love it?

matrix3509:
If Wasteland 2 fails I'm out $50. So what? At least I enabled a developer to continue having a job without having their passion for making games get sucked dry by a publisher.

Well said. It's not often that I see a mature post on these forums.

Cry Wolf:

draythefingerless:
PUTTING A PETITION WITH THE FCC

Oh no! Consumers go through the correct means when products are falsely advertised! How dare they compromise artistic integrity by complaining when something was falsely advertised!

Sigh.

You know what? Disagreeing with the Retake Mass Effect movement is fine. Even loathing the movement is fine. However, complaining about people going through the proper channels when a product was obviously falsely advertised is just bloody stupid. Why should games be exempt from false advertising laws? Why is it a false sense of entiltement when we expect that games can't just blatantly lie to get sales?

TL;DR - You sound like an idiot who has jumped on the crying over "something something entiltement" fad.

Shamus Young:
Kickstarter: Proceed with Caution

Shamus takes a peek into Kickstarter game funding.

Read Full Article

I really hope you're right, because I believe the Kickstarter method of funding won't survive and I desperately want it to. I mean, I'm getting a proper bloody Shadowrun game out of it making Kickstarter the most awesome thing since Inception. How could I not love it?

lol so its ok now to sue people on subjective terms? learn what youre talking about buddy. im surprised youre complaining about the FCC thing, wich is the ridiculous thing, and not about the Retake movement, wich is a sane thing despite being a bit guilt ridden. hey i didnt like that i paid 2 euros for limbo and it ammounts to a shitty short game that i can play tons better for free on newgrounds. im gonna sue the guys who made it for falsely advertising a game with rich and deep complex themes, cause i didnt get that. sounds about right doesnt it? oh hey the new street fighter game was putting a character in one of its trailers for about 5 seconds, but that character isnt in the final game. SUE SUE SUEEEEEEE FOR MAKING DEVELOPMENT CHOICES THAT AFFECT ME. actually i remember people complaining that the trailer for SF4 overhyped the game and they felt let down that the final game wasnt so awesome. :/.

Well said. I too have thought of this and am waiting for something to go terribly wrong.
It really is just a matter of time.
Especially since recently I've seen so many kickstarter projects.

There's so much potential for scams and semi-scams (start a genuine kickstarter but don't really put any effort or money in to it so that if fails and you are left with some extra cash etc.)

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