What Was What in Avengers

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Wait....how do you make a Skrulls film without marvels heroes?

Jaeke:

So... who would win Thor or Hulk?

Thor right?

Movie or comics? Hulk would win in the movie.

In the comics they've fought a dozen times. It normally goes something like;
- Thor and Hulk fight hand to hand.
- Thor starts off stronger and Hulk gets the upper hand.
- Thor starts using his hammer.
- Fight is stopped.

But Thor should by all means and in-verse showings, that are not just Hulk vs Thor, completely demolish the Hulk. He can manipulate energy freely and has enough juice to take out planets. The only problem is that any of the writers who will ever do a Thor vs Hulk fight, are likely to have Thor only use Mjolnir as a hammer. He might throw an occasional lightning, but that's it.

It boggles the mind how poorly anybody tries to deal with the Hulk. Even Zeus, who recently chokeslammed the Hulk and literally tore his guts out, fought him hand to hand. The jobber aura that the Hulk throws around is just another worn out trope, a side-effect of the diseased industry. It's the same reason why Captain America and Spidey smashed the Hulk a few times when their tiny hands should've broken.

Therumancer:

Dudeman325:

Therumancer:
It should also be noted that Death really doesn't seem to be 'into' Thanos the same way he is obsessed with her, though they do work together. Death being kind of a neutral prescence compared to Thanos' malevolence.

Plus, Death totally has the hots for Deadpool (and who can blame her?).

Off topic: I know its a bit late, but what the hell were the writers thinking when they put "Wade" in that X-Men movie? They took away the mouth from the "Merc with a Mouth!"

Yes, I couldn't get that one either. Personally I think the logic was probably just that Deadpool was a popular character loosely connected to Wolverine, so they threw him in expecting people to just go with it, underestimating his fan base, and also totally misunderstanding the character and what makes it tick.

Deadpool is a character that couldn't be done in the movies, since half the point of him is that his "insanity" causes him to break the fourth wall to make observations that happen to be true from the perspective of the RL reader. Even with "The Avengers" there isn't enough continuity to do that.

That said, I'm still waiting for Squirrel Girl to kick Death's butt. :)

From one theory, it was suggested that they did Deadpool like they did to give non-comic audiences a reason for him to be 100% off his rocker if he ever shows up again. Remember the end credits scene from Origins...

irishda:
People are weird. They can accept things if someone in a lab coat stands there and says sciencey-stuff. But for some reason, introducing outer space and cosmo-magic generally tends to cull the audience down into the people that like that genre.

The further you get away from reality, the more people tend to rely on completely arbitrary rules.

Really popular science fiction usually grounds things out. Star Wars is a good example, taking most of its inspiration from westerns and modeling most of its space fights after real WWII footage. The more overt fantasy elements were clearly defined, so Luke doesn't pull some insane Jedi power out of his ass to defeat the Emperor... it comes down to him reminding his father of the man he once was. It was Reality Plus.

Something like Dr. Strange. It's one ass-pull after another, with the character capable of doing anything the writer deems necessary for the story. The more cosmic characters run into a lot of the same issues as their powers are so far beyond the scope of reality that they essentially become whatever the writer wants them to be. It's tough to write good, interesting stories when the ground rules aren't clearly established.

Xenominim:
Question now is, what is Thanos' movie history going to be? I wouldn't think they'll be content to just leave him as a generic big bad out to take over the galaxy, but at the same time I don't think Marvel is going to toss Death with breasts up on screen.

Well, maybe only her HEAD is a skull, like in the 90s deadpool run where Deadpool makes out with death.

Seriously, if there were any doubt Deadpool is amazing, that's it.
A fucking love triangle between Death, the most powerful being in the universe, and the most bafflingly unmurderable bastard the world has ever known

SonicWaffle:

CatmanStu:
As soon as Thanos appeared on the screen I turned to the mate I was watching it with and said "They're gonna need more heroes in the next one."

I turned to my mate, a much bigger Marvel junkie than I (I'm a DC man), and asked if that was who I thought it was.

He said "Yeah, I think so. But why is Heimdal in outer space?"

/facepalm

Forget the facepalm; you need to give him a firm slap to the back of the head and then lock him in a cupboard with a copy of The Infinity Gauntlet and The Infinity Crusade and tell him he can't come out until he has read both.

At least if he had said Super-Skrull it could be overlooked; kind of.

llagrok:

Therumancer:

Jaeke:
I loved The Avengers, best damn superhero movie since The Dark Knight (I still enjoy the Dark Knight more).

The one, single, little thing that I didn't like in the movie, which overall didn't really affect my "critical opinion" was the Hulk.

Bah, stop listening to me complain and GO SEE THIS MOVIE!

captcha: high five

You're damn right high five.

Hmmm well as far as your spoilered bit goes:

.

Dude, this post is a joke.

It seems like you've read the stuff, but by the way you talk about the Hulk leaves me confused. There's no way the Hulk would come close to "smashing" Thanos. And the stuff about multiple cosmic characters having a hard time slowing down the Hulk is a straight up lie.

First off, "smashing" the gauntlet is impossible. They've tried to the destroy the Infinity Gems many times and that doesn't work very well. Even the Infinity Being couldn't truly unmake itself. That's why they're gems.

Secondly, Thanos had far better knowledge of how to use the gauntlet than anybody else given the time he had with them and the time spent gazing into death's well. He chose to turn off input from the other gems as a gesture to death, suggested by Mephisto, that's the only reason why he did so poorly against the heroes.

Third, Hulk can never operate at fully capacity and it wouldn't be logical for anything like that to exist. He relies on gamma radiation, which just about any herald or high-end superhero can do whatever they want with, and rage. Like you probably read in WWH (a story that was laughably generous in its showings), or any Hulk stories, he relies on events and plots to make him even angrier. While the writers who handle the Hulk, hacks as they are (aside from the Peterman), often ignore any sense of logic or in-verse showings, Mindless Hulk should by all means be the strongest he can be. There's no maximum capacity when you rely on a type of energy and an emotion. And there is a reasonable limit to the latter.

Fourth, Hulk on his best days (aka with his worst writers) can tangle with Surfer, Thor and other herald-type guys when they take it to fisticuffs. The kind of heroes that would have to team up in order to take down Thanos. Hulk just isn't taking him down. Even IF Thanos would be stupid enough to actually fight the hulk hand to hand, he's still one of the most skilled fighters in the universe. He trained Gamora for christs sake. The fact that Thanos (up until annihilation) easily handled Drax w/power gem or the Champion w/gem , should clue you in on just how outclassed the Hulk is. Drax in his own right is around the level we usually see an angry hulk operate on, and the Power Gem practically grants him limitless energy and so on.

Fifth, the eternals are barely "cosmic" as far as most of marvel is concerned. The noteworthy ones have powers that directly counter his, Sersi/Makkari, or are just too powerful, Forgotten one/Zuras.

There's no excuse for spreading this kind of filth to those who do not read comics. I have little love for Thanos, but the idea that the Hulk win in a fight against him, and easily at that, is a laugh.

All I can say is that your not familiar with the characters, it's that simple. For example I know you apparently haven't read "The Infinity Gauntlet" because they specify that Thanos isn't familiar with using the powers of the gauntlet which is why the various cosmic entities such as Lord Chaos, Master Order, The Celestrials, etc... all attack him and have a chance of beating him. It's said flat out that at that point he had the raw power but not at that point neither the experience or the skill. Granted he *DOES* win.

If you don't think The Hulk has fought and defeated entire teams of super heroes and villains, you really need to read more on the character. Granted like every character his power level has fluctuated over the years, but the actual properly written Hulk is probably as close to flat out invincible as you can get when he's going, which is why "solutions" to the Hulk problem have involved shrinking him down to microscopic level (leading to The Hulk's adventures in The Microverse), or tricking him into a spaceshop and launching him into space (leading to Planet Hulk, and then World War Hulk).

The thing with the Infinity Gauntlet is that while it was being assembled, or people were trying destroy it, none of the characters who could could have done something were present, or weren't really operating at their full capacity.

Understand, my arguement relies on Hulk being in his savage form, and what's more getting him really, really, mad. Like Secret Wars "he is stronger than every major hero in the marvel universe combined" lifting the bloody mountain himself mad, or beyond that. It happens, and really Thanos as he was when he fought the heroes wouldn't be able to stop that.

Hence why The Hulk was "smart hulk" in the Infinity Gauntlet battle, "Smart Hulk" doesn't have the full power level.

The Hulk we had in the Avengers movie (which is what this comes down to) seemed to be similar to "Smart Hulk" or one of the middle ground mergers. A situation where Banner was in control of the transformation to an extent. The point being not so much his power level in this case, but that Hulk has in many cases in the comics been more or less under control, and typically that's when he works with other teams. Hulk tends to be a rampaging threat otherwise that teams try and stop, usually with bad results. Sending say The Avengers, or The Fantastic Four, or whomever else to stop The Hulk when he goes off typically ends with a lot of heroes getting knocked around, tons of property damage, and The Hulk jumping off somewhere else and turning back into Banner and disappearing when he eventually calms down. That's part of the character. The point is that The Hulk's major weakness (mindless rage) is not always present it varies, and generally speaking the more reasonable and smart The Hulk is, the less powerful he is.

Therumancer:

All I can say is that your not familiar with the characters, it's that simple. For example I know you apparently haven't read "The Infinity Gauntlet" because they specify that Thanos isn't familiar with using the powers of the gauntlet which is why the various cosmic entities such as Lord Chaos, Master Order, The Celestrials, etc... all attack him and have a chance of beating him. It's said flat out that at that point he had the raw power but not at that point neither the experience or the skill. Granted he *DOES* win.

If you don't think The Hulk has fought and defeated entire teams of super heroes and villains, you really need to read more on the character. Granted like every character his power level has fluctuated over the years, but the actual properly written Hulk is probably as close to flat out invincible as you can get when he's going, which is why "solutions" to the Hulk problem have involved shrinking him down to microscopic level (leading to The Hulk's adventures in The Microverse), or tricking him into a spaceshop and launching him into space (leading to Planet Hulk, and then World War Hulk).

The thing with the Infinity Gauntlet is that while it was being assembled, or people were trying destroy it, none of the characters who could could have done something were present, or weren't really operating at their full capacity.

Understand, my arguement relies on Hulk being in his savage form, and what's more getting him really, really, mad. Like Secret Wars "he is stronger than every major hero in the marvel universe combined" lifting the bloody mountain himself mad, or beyond that. It happens, and really Thanos as he was when he fought the heroes wouldn't be able to stop that.

Hence why The Hulk was "smart hulk" in the Infinity Gauntlet battle, "Smart Hulk" doesn't have the full power level.

The Hulk we had in the Avengers movie (which is what this comes down to) seemed to be similar to "Smart Hulk" or one of the middle ground mergers. A situation where Banner was in control of the transformation to an extent. The point being not so much his power level in this case, but that Hulk has in many cases in the comics been more or less under control, and typically that's when he works with other teams. Hulk tends to be a rampaging threat otherwise that teams try and stop, usually with bad results. Sending say The Avengers, or The Fantastic Four, or whomever else to stop The Hulk when he goes off typically ends with a lot of heroes getting knocked around, tons of property damage, and The Hulk jumping off somewhere else and turning back into Banner and disappearing when he eventually calms down. That's part of the character. The point is that The Hulk's major weakness (mindless rage) is not always present it varies, and generally speaking the more reasonable and smart The Hulk is, the less powerful he is.

This post is a lot better than your initial one. I have to say that much.

You are referring to a different point in the Infinity Gauntlet than I am. I strictly referred to his fight with the heroes. Not the fight with the celestial cohort. I was referring to this incident;
http://i799.photobucket.com/albums/yy275/llagrok/The_Infinity_Gauntlet_04-09.jpg

I never said that the Hulk has not beaten teams of superheroes, but that matters little. I replied to your comment about cosmic characters barely slowing him down. The only cosmic regular you see on super-hero teams is Thor, and as I'm sure you recall, Thor and Hulk held eachother in place for minutes, hours even. Once you start going up the ladder, there's nothing impressive about the Hulk beating up Iron Man, Wonder Man and Namor. The teams are vastly inferior to the sum of their parts and the Hulk isn't a character you can "chip down". He obviously benefits from having "lesser" opponents wail on him, it's fuel.

There are many simple solutions to the Hulk problem. And the reason why they are not considered is obviously due to editorial management. There is nothing Reed Richards should not be able to accomplish given what he's done. You obviously cannot just have them "Cure" one of Marvel's best selling, and most famous, characters.

Like I mentioned, and I get the feeling that you ignored major parts of my post for you certainly did not reply to them, Mindless Hulk is the strongest he should have been. Regardless of that, why would you be "wow"ed by Secret Wars? He BRACED part of a mountainside, Banner himself mentions this, and this was not the same as lifting it. But even that isn't such a big deal because he's held together tectonic plates in planet hulk, but even that is a far cry from when Thor braces worlds against Kang or Karnilla.

Hulk has hundreds of weakness and relying on energy might be his greatest one.

You did not really try to defend any of your wild claims. There's nothing the Hulk has done to warrant a victory over Thanos, or wild claims that several cosmic characters can not slow him down. I have no interest in discussing how movie-hulk would do against anyone or who he is similar to. That would be pure speculation.

Netrigan:

Something like Dr. Strange. It's one ass-pull after another, with the character capable of doing anything the writer deems necessary for the story. The more cosmic characters run into a lot of the same issues as their powers are so far beyond the scope of reality that they essentially become whatever the writer wants them to be. It's tough to write good, interesting stories when the ground rules aren't clearly established.

It's funny then, that the really good stories happen to be cosmic ones ones.

llagrok:

Jaeke:

So... who would win Thor or Hulk?

Thor right?

Movie or comics? Hulk would win in the movie.

In the comics they've fought a dozen times. It normally goes something like;
- Thor and Hulk fight hand to hand.
- Thor starts off stronger and Hulk gets the upper hand.
- Thor starts using his hammer.
- Fight is stopped.

But Thor should by all means and in-verse showings, that are not just Hulk vs Thor, completely demolish the Hulk. He can manipulate energy freely and has enough juice to take out planets. The only problem is that any of the writers who will ever do a Thor vs Hulk fight, are likely to have Thor only use Mjolnir as a hammer. He might throw an occasional lightning, but that's it.

It boggles the mind how poorly anybody tries to deal with the Hulk. Even Zeus, who recently chokeslammed the Hulk and literally tore his guts out, fought him hand to hand. The jobber aura that the Hulk throws around is just another worn out trope, a side-effect of the diseased industry. It's the same reason why Captain America and Spidey smashed the Hulk a few times when their tiny hands should've broken.

Well, as I said in a previous message, it depends on how angry The Hulk is. As his rage grows he becomes stronger and more invulnerable. Someone like Spidey or Captain America could handle him under the right circumstances if he wasn't that mad, or fairly in control. Not to mention some of the "variet" Hulks (Grey Hulk, etc...) which were less powerfu overall.

Thor has tried to stop The Hulk in the past along with the Avengers, including his hammer, and usually winds up being able to stand toe to toe with him for a while, but typically winds up getting thrown through walls and such. The same can be said of other strong men like "The Thing" who has had some pretty epic brawls with The Hulk but ultimatly winds up on the losing end.

Now there IS an exception to this, in the alternate "Spider Girl" universe they had a brawl where The Hulk got taken over by Loki and was sent after the other heroes, and you pretty much had everyone there was jump on him and get smacked down. In that universe Thor stopped him, but he was the reigning King of Asgard and pretty much unleashed the Odinforce on him (ie the powers he had as the King of Asgard).

llagrok:
[

This post is a lot better than your initial one. I have to say that much.

You are referring to a different point in the Infinity Gauntlet than I am. I strictly referred to his fight with the heroes. Not the fight with the celestial cohort. I was referring to this incident;
http://i799.photobucket.com/albums/yy275/llagrok/The_Infinity_Gauntlet_04-09.jpg

I never said that the Hulk has not beaten teams of superheroes, but that matters little. I replied to your comment about cosmic characters barely slowing him down. The only cosmic regular you see on super-hero teams is Thor, and as I'm sure you recall, Thor and Hulk held eachother in place for minutes, hours even. Once you start going up the ladder, there's nothing impressive about the Hulk beating up Iron Man, Wonder Man and Namor. The teams are vastly inferior to the sum of their parts and the Hulk isn't a character you can "chip down". He obviously benefits from having "lesser" opponents wail on him, it's fuel.

There are many simple solutions to the Hulk problem. And the reason why they are not considered is obviously due to editorial management. There is nothing Reed Richards should not be able to accomplish given what he's done. You obviously cannot just have them "Cure" one of Marvel's best selling, and most famous, characters.

Like I mentioned, and I get the feeling that you ignored major parts of my post for you certainly did not reply to them, Mindless Hulk is the strongest he should have been. Regardless of that, why would you be "wow"ed by Secret Wars? He BRACED part of a mountainside, Banner himself mentions this, and this was not the same as lifting it. But even that isn't such a big deal because he's held together tectonic plates in planet hulk, but even that is a far cry from when Thor braces worlds against Kang or Karnilla.

Hulk has hundreds of weakness and relying on energy might be his greatest one.

You did not really try to defend any of your wild claims. There's nothing the Hulk has done to warrant a victory over Thanos, or wild claims that several cosmic characters can not slow him down. I have no interest in discussing how movie-hulk would do against anyone or who he is similar to. That would be pure speculation.

Actually there have been plenty of occasions where characters with The Power Cosmic or similar levels of power (Quasar, Thor, Sersei, etc...) have shown up to try and stop The Hulk, and have failed. I don't think it's something that can be sanely debated if you know the subject to begin with.

The bit with Thanos saying "I'm going to give them a chance" is debatable given reveals later in the story where it was made clear that Thanos did not have mastery over the powers. Indeed he might very well have thought he was in a position to make such a gesture when he really wasn't.

At any rate, the point about The Hulk wasn't directly from my opinion. As I stated in my initial post, that's something Marvel themselves pointed out (in Wizard I believe, in a retrospective) in answering questions about what characters got to be present in that fight, since there was a whole universe of heroes that didn't wind up (and practically they couldn't use all of them), some were excluded simply because they would have had a way to beat him and ruin the story, others were redundant, and given the nature of the story they wanted as many big (as in well known) characters as they could to be at the forefront. Some like The Hulk had to be written in a way that they wouldn't de-rail the entire battle. It's hard to prove at this point, but I stand by it, and it does make sense if you've followed The Hulk. If Thanos either can't or won't (for the purposes of this discussion it doesn't much matter) just alter reality to kill everyone, what is he going to do to The Hulk? Energy blasts? The Hulk when he's mad enough can take as much powerful as comically powered guys dish out. Is he going to punch him? Good luck with that. Mind control might work if it got in BEFORE he got bad enough to just cause a massive telepathic feedback loop on whomever tried it (sometimes mentalism can calm him down, sometimes it has the person trying it going "argghh! the rage, I can't handle it! argggh!". As I said, Thanos really would have just wound up with a foot print in his face, but that issue never arose because we had "rational hulk" who was tough, but not anything close to his full power level.

It's sort of like how even leading up to that point none of the characters who probably could have stopped Thanos cold in even getting that far were around, or at their full power if they were.

I mean don't get me wrong, Thanos is a tough villain, but he's not all that.

I'm also not saying that The Hulk has no weaknesses, being STUPID when he's at full power is one of them for example, another is the fact that he has to become enraged and continue to get madder and madder to reach his full level of power. Really, the easiest way to deal with The Hulk is more or less to leave him alone.

ZippyDSMlee:
Wait....how do you make a Skrulls film without marvels heroes?

Marvel has liscenced out it's properties to differant companies. Apparently the Skrulls went with the Fantastic Four liscence with is under contract so Marvel/Disney can't use the properties that went along with it.

It's sort of like how Universal Studios has the Marvel "Island Of Adventure" as part of it's park and Disney can't do anything similar despite owning Marvel until the liscence expires.

More information about Death:
Death isn't just a skeleton, she has a skull for a head however her body is the standard corpse look (grey, looks like it has no blood) however, she is freaking HOT. I can't find a link to the picture but there is a scene with death showing off her body and Deadpool is in a hot tub with whip cream on his nipples.
Oh right, Death is in love with Deadpool and Deadpool is in love with Death as well.

Thanos wants to be with Death but he can't if Deadpool ever actually dies so part of the reason Deadpool can't die is because Thanos cursed him with life so that he can have a better chance at winning Deaths heart. Also part of the reason Death is in love with Deadpool is because he's the only one (according to her) who has come so close to her and keeps leaving her.

I'm willing to bet in the Deadpool movie there is at least one occurance where Deadpool dies and meets death.

Also take note that Death not only has breasts, she has BIG breats!

Hell, even I think she looks kinda hot.

I'll just get to your other post here, without quoting it;

Sersi is much of a one-trick pony, and unless she can transmute him then she doesn't really do anything. Quasar himself also varies greatly, and Thor's dropped him with a single blow (due to a weakness to magic). But this is not what I asked for. You said that multiple cosmic heroes could barely slow him down.

And don't be a jackass and just write off "energy blasts" as a standard kind of attack. Nor does Thanos have any kind of reality altering abilities. Manipulating energy is a completely different matter, and Thanos COULD just ruin the Hulk that way, he's done it to a dozen others.

Therumancer:

Well, as I said in a previous message, it depends on how angry The Hulk is. As his rage grows he becomes stronger and more invulnerable. Someone like Spidey or Captain America could handle him under the right circumstances if he wasn't that mad, or fairly in control. Not to mention some of the "variet" Hulks (Grey Hulk, etc...) which were less powerfu overall.

Thor has tried to stop The Hulk in the past along with the Avengers, including his hammer, and usually winds up being able to stand toe to toe with him for a while, but typically winds up getting thrown through walls and such. The same can be said of other strong men like "The Thing" who has had some pretty epic brawls with The Hulk but ultimatly winds up on the losing end.

Now there IS an exception to this, in the alternate "Spider Girl" universe they had a brawl where The Hulk got taken over by Loki and was sent after the other heroes, and you pretty much had everyone there was jump on him and get smacked down. In that universe Thor stopped him, but he was the reigning King of Asgard and pretty much unleashed the Odinforce on him (ie the powers he had as the King of Asgard).

Hold on now, old son. This is just a lie.

- In Journey into mystery 112 Thor has Hulk, lets down his guard and gets thrown away. He buries the Hulk in a mountain of debris and he can't find him. Thor did nothing but him in this fight.

- In Sub-Mariner 35 the fight is stopped by another foe, here they were physical equals again. Thor used no other powers and had the 60 second limitation on him.

- Defenders 10, the more infamous example. Here they end up physically stalemating eachother hour an hour. No exotic powers used by Thor;
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Fights/ThorvsHulk12.jpg

- Incredible Hulk 255. They are equals, yet Thor is constantly holding back. He drops his hammer to help civilians, while the Hulk wails on him. He eventually turns back into Jake. No exotic powers used.

- Incredible Hulk 300. This is also a good one, Thor vs Mindless Hulk. They throw eachother around a bit and Dr.Strange eventually shows up. No exotic powers used.

- Thor 385, my personal favourite. Hulk gets pounded when Thor uses Mjolnir (nothing more than physical hits) so he threatens to kill a woman if Thor doesn't throw it away. Thor does so and they do a few rounds. Eventually the Hulk just leaves and Thor contemplates how he's turning into a monster himself. No exotic powers used.

- Thor 489, they both look equals and stop fighting to deal with Hela. No exotic powers.

- Incredible Hulk 440. Maestero vs Thor (warrior madness, though this is technically impossible). They are equals until the Hulk punches Thor away from a nuke. Here Thor uses lightning once and brings the Hulk down, yet stops doing so for no reason. Stupid fight, since a Nuke shouldn't do that much to either of them. Thor and Wonder Man have shrugged off nukes for chrissakes.

- Incredible Hulk Annual 25. Thor knocks out Hulk with a single lightningblast and carries him away. Hulk wakes up a while later and attacks. Thor gets up and they fight. In this fight Thor keeps him down with the rain, but stops since civilians are being hurt.

- There's Hulk: Let the battle begin, where Banner recalls of dream of fighting and beating Thor. The Writer had to recant this.

- Avengers 3 Thor is holding back against both Namor and Hulk, because he both considers them mortals. Someone is he pledged to protect.

- There's also the time when Diablo created several hulks, merged them into one being and Thor knocked the heavens out that one.

- Finally there is Odinforce Thor killing the Hulk and the Thing. Kicker is that he didn't have the Odinforce due to Strange and the council of Skyfathers. He was just Thor without Mjolnir.

These examples are all 616. They are all examples of Standard Thor (not masterson)and his one on ones with the Hulk. One one fight was ever finished, and that ended with Thor knocking out the Hulk with a single lightning-bolt to the head. Not a single fight had Thor use any kind of energy blast/absorption/teleporting, and only two had him use lightning once. There are a few cases of Thor creating shields that the Hulk couldn't penetrate, but that's about it. Most of the fights have Thor fight the Hulk on his terms, even when there's the danger of him turning human.

If you look to Thor v2, when he is training Tarene. He mentions that he rarely uses any kind of energy attack on earth due to the fallout. Looking at his history, and even his fights with the hulk, he would rather die himself than accidentally take a life when fighting the Hulk or anyone for that matter.

Actually throughout all of the Avengers, i was hoping that the main bad would be Dormammu... That would've been so awesome.
But hey, even though I had to look up who Thanos was, I'll definitely look forward to the bastard.

llagrok:
I'll just get to your other post here, without quoting it;

Sersi is much of a one-trick pony, and unless she can transmute him then she doesn't really do anything. Quasar himself also varies greatly, and Thor's dropped him with a single blow (due to a weakness to magic). But this is not what I asked for. You said that multiple cosmic heroes could barely slow him down.

And don't be a jackass and just write off "energy blasts" as a standard kind of attack. Nor does Thanos have any kind of reality altering abilities. Manipulating energy is a completely different matter, and Thanos COULD just ruin the Hulk that way, he's done it to a dozen others.

Therumancer:

Well, as I said in a previous message, it depends on how angry The Hulk is. As his rage grows he becomes stronger and more invulnerable. Someone like Spidey or Captain America could handle him under the right circumstances if he wasn't that mad, or fairly in control. Not to mention some of the "variet" Hulks (Grey Hulk, etc...) which were less powerfu overall.

Thor has tried to stop The Hulk in the past along with the Avengers, including his hammer, and usually winds up being able to stand toe to toe with him for a while, but typically winds up getting thrown through walls and such. The same can be said of other strong men like "The Thing" who has had some pretty epic brawls with The Hulk but ultimatly winds up on the losing end.

Now there IS an exception to this, in the alternate "Spider Girl" universe they had a brawl where The Hulk got taken over by Loki and was sent after the other heroes, and you pretty much had everyone there was jump on him and get smacked down. In that universe Thor stopped him, but he was the reigning King of Asgard and pretty much unleashed the Odinforce on him (ie the powers he had as the King of Asgard).

Hold on now, old son. This is just a lie.

- In Journey into mystery 112 Thor has Hulk, lets down his guard and gets thrown away. He buries the Hulk in a mountain of debris and he can't find him. Thor did nothing but him in this fight.

- In Sub-Mariner 35 the fight is stopped by another foe, here they were physical equals again. Thor used no other powers and had the 60 second limitation on him.

- Defenders 10, the more infamous example. Here they end up physically stalemating eachother hour an hour. No exotic powers used by Thor;
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Fights/ThorvsHulk12.jpg

- Incredible Hulk 255. They are equals, yet Thor is constantly holding back. He drops his hammer to help civilians, while the Hulk wails on him. He eventually turns back into Jake. No exotic powers used.

- Incredible Hulk 300. This is also a good one, Thor vs Mindless Hulk. They throw eachother around a bit and Dr.Strange eventually shows up. No exotic powers used.

- Thor 385, my personal favourite. Hulk gets pounded when Thor uses Mjolnir (nothing more than physical hits) so he threatens to kill a woman if Thor doesn't throw it away. Thor does so and they do a few rounds. Eventually the Hulk just leaves and Thor contemplates how he's turning into a monster himself. No exotic powers used.

- Thor 489, they both look equals and stop fighting to deal with Hela. No exotic powers.

- Incredible Hulk 440. Maestero vs Thor (warrior madness, though this is technically impossible). They are equals until the Hulk punches Thor away from a nuke. Here Thor uses lightning once and brings the Hulk down, yet stops doing so for no reason. Stupid fight, since a Nuke shouldn't do that much to either of them. Thor and Wonder Man have shrugged off nukes for chrissakes.

- Incredible Hulk Annual 25. Thor knocks out Hulk with a single lightningblast and carries him away. Hulk wakes up a while later and attacks. Thor gets up and they fight. In this fight Thor keeps him down with the rain, but stops since civilians are being hurt.

- There's Hulk: Let the battle begin, where Banner recalls of dream of fighting and beating Thor. The Writer had to recant this.

- Avengers 3 Thor is holding back against both Namor and Hulk, because he both considers them mortals. Someone is he pledged to protect.

- There's also the time when Diablo created several hulks, merged them into one being and Thor knocked the heavens out that one.

- Finally there is Odinforce Thor killing the Hulk and the Thing. Kicker is that he didn't have the Odinforce due to Strange and the council of Skyfathers. He was just Thor without Mjolnir.

These examples are all 616. They are all examples of Standard Thor (not masterson)and his one on ones with the Hulk. One one fight was ever finished, and that ended with Thor knocking out the Hulk with a single lightning-bolt to the head. Not a single fight had Thor use any kind of energy blast/absorption/teleporting, and only two had him use lightning once. There are a few cases of Thor creating shields that the Hulk couldn't penetrate, but that's about it. Most of the fights have Thor fight the Hulk on his terms, even when there's the danger of him turning human.

If you look to Thor v2, when he is training Tarene. He mentions that he rarely uses any kind of energy attack on earth due to the fallout. Looking at his history, and even his fights with the hulk, he would rather die himself than accidentally take a life when fighting the Hulk or anyone for that matter.

Again though, how angry is The Hulk at this point? Is he rampaging? Your also looking at situations where Thor was being headlined. Do some searchs for say "Hulk Vs. The Avengers".

Now you ARE correct that there have been plenty of unresolved situations between The Hulk and Thor, but your generally not seeing The Hulk's full power level during those confrontations. For example one classic is Thor tricking The Hulk into trying to lift his hammer (which he can't do, due to the magic), and similar things. The trick here is that it's The Hulk at his regular power level... which goes back to the central point about Thanos, and why The Hulk was a "smart" one at that point, a lot of characters could have beaten The Hulk at that point.

You seem to be confusing his full power level, with differant ways the character has been portrayed.

Also if you want to talk something as trivial as comics, don't sit there and call me a liar, that's offensive and I'm liable to just ignore you. It's pretty bloody silly, what are you implying, that I have some insane, vested, interest in trying to convince people that The Hulk is that powerful if I didn't believe it to be true? To be honest The Hulk isn't even my favorite marvel character, I'm simply pointing this out as it applies to the Infinity Gauntlet storyline and was laid down by the creators. Thanos is tough and powerful, but not all that.

... and for the record, If Hulk can be reasoned with, your comment in "Mindless Hulk", he is thus not operating at his full power level, the same basic arguement.

When it comes to "exotic powers" being used, a lot of it is simply that The Hulk mostly just used strength tricks when he does something fancy, occasional bouts of super breath, hand clapping shockwaves... at one point he inhaled Mister Fantastic and spit him out (Contest Of Champions 2 I believe). Most of what Thor has when properly written wouldn't really do much to The Hulk, and Thor himself is very much a brute force character.

In general when The Hulk fights anyone his power level is typically kept fairly moderate to give the other character a chance. This is again why when he's really gotten going the "solution" has been to find ways to get rid of him/send him elsewhere.

That said I disagree with you, but I don't have a huge comic archive to provide counter examples, and if I did I'd probably make my point by showing various situations where entire teams have tried to fight Hulk and basically lost, and I'm pretty sure Thor has been there more than once where it wasn't 1 on 1, and characters equally powerful or superior (like Wonder Man) have also gotten involved. Thus I confess I might have to concede this specific point on technical merits, because unlike other arguements I find myself in, I can't claim that this is readily verifiable with some quick searches.

As someone with zero familiarity with the Marvel universe, I thought the guy in the credits was the Red Skull. I did think it was odd that in the seventy years since he was sucked into an alternate dimension he became evil overlord of the Covenant just because he's really strong. Answer: it's not the Red Skull.

Dr. Cakey:
As someone with zero familiarity with the Marvel universe, I thought the guy in the credits was the Red Skull. I did think it was odd that in the seventy years since he was sucked into an alternate dimension he became evil overlord of the Covenant just because he's really strong. Answer: it's not the Red Skull.

I was about to post the exact same thing, and I still stand by my claim that it would make sense. Sure it seems weird that he would suddenly be in a position of absolute power, but I figured that they would use an established villain, and I think the writers could easily come up with a reason why being dematerialized by the Tessarect would cause him to be transported to deep space.

Jaeke:
I loved The Avengers, best damn superhero movie since The Dark Knight (I still enjoy the Dark Knight more).

The one, single, little thing that I didn't like in the movie, which overall didn't really affect my "critical opinion" was the Hulk.

Are you kidding? That bit was the best part of the movie. Like I've always said:

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