TERA Review

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Zeriah:
I'm not sure if you are aware but action based MMO's are not a new thing. Action MMO's have been around for far longer than 2007.

Er, not sure if *you're* aware, but in this very same thread, I actually stated as much in a previous post. Hell, a user at the top of the page quoted that post, in fact.

CriticKitten:
Hell, it's not even fair to say GW2 is doing something new as far as that style of combat since it's pretty standard action-adventure style combat.

And given that the thread is only 2 pages long, there's really no excuse for you having not read through the thread to be aware of the ongoing conversation before you butted in, except sheer laziness. But thanks for jumping in because you felt the need to contribute exactly one line as a retort to my entire post's list of valid criticisms. :p

Ok, I'll get flamed for this hard, but "action-based fighting in an MMO"...

DC Universe Online. You don't just need to direct attacks, you need make combos of basic attacks and use abilities ("powers") that stack nicely with the combos you are using.

And you can pick up a bus and throw it into enemy...

OK, I am not saying DCUO is very good (it's decent, but not very good) - but I am saying that the fighting system of DCUO could have been refined into a very engaging one by a few minor twitches.

(most of which will never be done, because it would require cutting down list of combos and powers to a balancable set, which runs completely contrary to what most DCUO subscribers - meaning comic book fanboys - want from DCUO)

Which would only leave a cardboard-cut out plot and none-existant player-base involvement as remaining problems.

Give me an MMO, that
- inspires interaction and competition between players as much as Eve: Online,
- has a fighting system as complex and multi-facet as a balanced fighting game or a competitive team-shooter,
and
- has a player-influenced well-written story and quests with a non-cliche over-arching theme.

CriticKitten:

Zeriah:
I'm not sure if you are aware but action based MMO's are not a new thing. Action MMO's have been around for far longer than 2007.

Er, not sure if *you're* aware, but in this very same thread, I actually stated as much in a previous post. Hell, a user at the top of the page quoted that post, in fact.

CriticKitten:
Hell, it's not even fair to say GW2 is doing something new as far as that style of combat since it's pretty standard action-adventure style combat.

And given that the thread is only 2 pages long, there's really no excuse for you having not read through the thread to be aware of the ongoing conversation before you butted in, except sheer laziness. But thanks for jumping in because you felt the need to contribute exactly one line as a retort to my entire post's list of valid criticisms. :p

I saw the thread, you shouldn't be insinuating that GW2 has influenced Tera. This is not true. Tera's combat system is based on hundreds of Korean games, most of which are probably unavailable to us. This GW2 comparison of who did what first is just irrelevant as it is simply wrong. Tera is based on Korean MMO's. This goes just as much to the person you are were arguing with. I'm looking forward to GW2 as well (can't wait for the pvp) but their combat systems are just different, there's no reason why somebody can't find one more fluid than the other. GW2 is using things from WoW type mmo's as well like targets and some auto aim spells and some people find that less interesting than the way Tera does it. The only new ground Tera has made is westernizing Korean MMO's with a large budget. I just don't understand what this has to do with GW2, they are really as different as night and day and both aren't particularly pushing new grounds.

Also the reason why I didn't respond to anything else is because I more or less agree with the other things you said.

John Funk:
TERA Review

Bold new MMO combat, but same old quests.

Read Full Article

Not bold, not new. Three MMO's did this to death already, Tera shows absolutely nothing new. The Chronicles of spellborne was far more interesting and shows just how much Tera copied from that game, combat, runes, etc, etc.

LilithSlave:
Okay, here's the problem. I don't think you're supposed to be playing an RPG for the combat in the first place. You're supposed to be playing it for the "role-playing", whatever all that term entails. And why have I heard almost nothing about the so called political system?

Nobody ever talks about it. That would be the biggest selling point of the game to me. But it is hard to be excited about if when nobody ever talks about it.

Well, hardly anyone plays a MMORPG for the 'role-playing', as the 'RPG' part is mostly just demoted to character development in most games of the genre, therefore it's not much different from most MMORPGs in that it's light on the actual 'role-playing'.

The political system only got added fairly recently and is mostly an end-game thing from what I understand it, as you have to be a level 50 guild master to be eligible for election.

Sean Deli:
Ok, I'll get flamed for this hard, but "action-based fighting in an MMO"...

DC Universe Online. You don't just need to direct attacks, you need make combos of basic attacks and use abilities ("powers") that stack nicely with the combos you are using.

I've heard from a few DCUO players that they feel TERA has a greater weight to the combat, like you'll do full damage to any enemies other than your primary target with your attacks rather than splash damage. If you hit them, you hit them properly. TERA has combo systems too, with certain skills performed quicker or with extra effectis if done after other ones. All classes also gain MP from hitting enemies with normal attacks, with most of the melee classes actually having their MP constantly drain away when not attacking. So it certainly encourages you to keep up the momentum.
From what I heard DCUO had a good idea but the execution was a bit off the mark, or at least TERA does it better.

So basicly, they changed what i did not mind (combat), kept what i was fed up with (quests nobody cares about the story of), and on top of that, they went over the top with what i hate (stripperific outfits for all females, yay).

I think i'll pass and keep to SWTOR, and try The Secret World when it comes out.

nyysjan:
So basicly, they changed what i did not mind (combat), kept what i was fed up with (quests nobody cares about the story of), and on top of that, they went over the top with what i hate (stripperific outfits for all females, yay).

They're not for all females just so you know, and it varies between races, and the males are similarly afflicted anyway, so at least they're being equal!

Zeriah:
I saw the thread, you shouldn't be insinuating that GW2 has influenced Tera. This is not true. Tera's combat system is based on hundreds of Korean games, most of which are probably unavailable to us. This GW2 comparison of who did what first is just irrelevant as it is simply wrong. Tera is based on Korean MMO's. This goes just as much to the person you are were arguing with. I'm looking forward to GW2 as well (can't wait for the pvp) but their combat systems are just different, there's no reason why somebody can't find one more fluid than the other. GW2 is using things from WoW type mmo's as well like targets and some auto aim spells and some people find that less interesting than the way Tera does it. The only new ground Tera has made is westernizing Korean MMO's with a large budget. I just don't understand what this has to do with GW2, they are really as different as night and day and both aren't particularly pushing new grounds.

Also the reason why I didn't respond to anything else is because I more or less agree with the other things you said.

Apparently you *didn't* see the thread since I see you've changed your post significantly since you first posted it, in order to cover up major errors in what you said.

So despite your best efforts to hide your mistakes, I'm going to respond to those errors first.

I never stated that GW2 "came out in 2007, ergo it was the first action-adventure RPG ever made". That's a faulty assumption on your part. In fact the post you have now quoted clearly shows I am aware that GW2 isn't the first of its kind.

I never stated that TERA was influenced by GW2, either. Nor am I terribly concerned with which one came first. What I'm pointing out is that TERA is a game built entirely upon parts stolen from other games. TERA's devs were sued by NCSoft for stealing materials that belonged to NCSoft, most likely assets belonging to another Korean game being developed by NCSoft. Which means at the very least, their game idea is based upon someone else's work regardless of who they copied off of. Their quest system (the quest window) is a downright copy of WoW's quest windows down to the color scheme, even. I had to take a second glance at it to remind myself that I wasn't watching a Yogscast playthrough of the Mists of Pandaria, because that's what it looked like.

I never said that a person can't find the combat of one more fluid than the other, I simply stated that anyone who claims TERA's combat is the more "action-packed" and better models an action-adventure system....well, they're wrong. TERA's combat is NOT a perfected action-adventure system so much as a strange and imperfect hybrid of action-adventure and classic MMORPG. It recycles the concepts of older MMOs in bringing back tanks/healers/DpS, but then tries to integrate that with action-adventure combat, which is almost always focused around getting hit as little as possible to preserve health. These two things make work fine together as a healer or DpS, but the concept falls apart when you look at the tank, whose entire job is to ball up the enemies and then hold still so that the DpS can drop bombs on them. Yet you're also trying to force players to move around a lot. So they're essentially being asked to hold monster aggro and take all the hits while ALSO moving around....this is a half-measure, an attempt to appeal to both crowds by giving them bits and pieces of both worlds. Personally, I think it's an interesting attempt, but in the long run, it's not one that will appeal to me.

The reason GW2 and TERA are going to be compared is obvious: not only the same genre, but the same tendency to focus on some degree of action-adventure combat. There's no reason they shouldn't be compared, either, because they're as close to being competitors as any MMOs have been in years. I'm simply stating that from the standpoint of someone who has already bought and is enjoying GW2, TERA has to work overtime to try to appeal to me and folks like me....and right now, it has no method of doing so. That will hurt the game in the long run, since it is a subscription-based game that DEPENDS on its ability to attract customers away from other MMOs. And SWTOR's declining numbers prove that you're not going to draw people away from WoW forever by putting out a game that copies heavily from WoW. You have to give them more in the long run. TERA is a subscription game whose most "natural" competitors are either well-established juggernauts in the field, or are free-to-play titles. So they need to have something else to offer. And as a potential buyer, I just don't see it. More power to you if you've bought and love the game, but right now TERA doesn't put forward anything that I don't already get from other games, and for a much cheaper price at that.

CriticKitten:
Snip

I was actually playing Tera when I posted it originally with a group and such, I didn't have time to check over it completely before posting. I added a few things when I had time to read over it, fixed some errors and removed a small line saying "why are you being so hostile" (as I believed I had done nothing to offend) but after reading it I thought it might make you more upset. It wasn't changed much.

This is the line that made me believe you were unaware of where Tera's origins lie and why I thought you were insinuating guild wars 2 was influencing Tera

That's fine, it's a matter of personal taste. I just get sick of people trying to pretend TERA is doing something new when it's not. GW2 was announced before TERA and offers the same action-adventure style of combat (though arguably does it better since the combat requires movement, whereas TERA enables people to continue using the traditional MMO role of a tank....which sort of defeats the purpose of having movement in the first place, IMO), and WoW offers precisely the same questing system. You can say you like the way TERA hybridizes the two just fine, but you can't say that it's doing something new when it's not.

This and your follow up post is what made me believe that you thought Guild Wars 2 was some sort of innovator of Action MMO's with the whole 'first' thing and when you don't even mention where Tera got all of its influence (the multitude of other Korean MMO's) it was a natural conclusion for me to come to, that you were unaware of Tera's origins. I wasn't trying to insult or be snarky, it was what I honestly thought.

Also the combat systems really are very different, you'd have to try Tera or give the multitude of free Korean action MMO's a go to really see how different they are. They both have you strafing and dodging to avoid some direct damage, yes. However the fact that you must aim all your abilities and that literally everything in this game is avoidable, including spells and all player damage is what really sets these games apart. This isn't even going into how different the mobs are in these types of games. You will often be fighting hordes of enemies, gathering them up and avoiding them all while aiming off your spells and abilities. This is a lot different from what you would be doing in GW2. It is quite difficult to describe, all I can say is the combat has a very different feel.

I'm not going to argue with you on why GW2 still uses a targeting system, complete with pre-guided spells. I believe GW2 will be awesome and the combat videos look damn fun. What I was trying to point out is the double standard I believe you have presented with your arguments of including tank classes, when aiming your spells, swings and abilities are just as integral to a pure action RPG as tanking your own bosses. For many people GW2's combat will feel less like an action MMO because of this. These are opinions and neither are more right or wrong.

They also didn't 'borrow' the kind of tank system from the western MMO's and the damage you have to avoid as non-tank classes in dungeons are also completely different. They borrowed these from the Korean MMO's with tank classes and believe me, you will be avoiding plenty of damage in a completely different (and in my opinion, much more difficult) way than you would avoid them in a game like WoW.

As far as not moving while attacking goes, it is what makes the game difficult. This game would be a joke if you could attack while moving, they would need to have literally 10 times the mobs, moving twice as fast to make it a challenge (in Korean MMO's you will generally be fighting 20-50 things at once). What it does do (for me at least), is make the game feel more clunky and I don't enjoy it more than what I was doing in Dragon's Nest for example.

I still believe they aren't really in any more direct competition than they are with any other MMO on the market. In my opinion Tera is a Westernized Korean action MMO, with the core gameplay being Korean but trying to attract the west with a questing and UI system more similar to what they are used to. Guild Wars 2 is a Western action MMO. They both have some things in common but at the end of the day they are quite different. As different as comparing say, Tales of Vesperia (an action JRPG) to something like Skyrim (an action WRPG).

Zeriah:
Also the combat systems really are very different, you'd have to try Tera or give the multitude of free Korean action MMO's a go to really see how different they are. They both have you strafing and dodging to avoid some direct damage, yes. However the fact that you must aim all your abilities and that literally everything in this game is avoidable, including spells and all player damage is what really sets these games apart. This isn't even going into how different the mobs are in these types of games. You will often be fighting hordes of enemies, gathering them up and avoiding them all while aiming off your spells and abilities. This is a lot different from what you would be doing in GW2. It is quite difficult to describe, all I can say is the combat has a very different feel.

That sounds rather exactly like GW2, to be honest. Are you sure you've played a lot of both games? All I remember doing in GW2 events was running around, fending off enemies from every side.

I'm not going to argue with you on why GW2 still uses a targeting system, complete with pre-guided spells. I believe GW2 will be awesome and the combat videos look damn fun. What I was trying to point out is the double standard I believe you have presented with your arguments of including tank classes, when aiming your spells, swings and abilities are just as integral to a pure action RPG as tanking your own bosses. For many people GW2's combat will feel less like an action MMO because of this. These are opinions and neither are more right or wrong.

There are a multitude of action-adventure or RPG games which feature auto-aim functionality, which makes the analogy flawed and inaccurate. You are forming a very poor strawman here.

They also didn't 'borrow' the kind of tank system from the western MMO's and the damage you have to avoid as non-tank classes in dungeons are also completely different. They borrowed these from the Korean MMO's with tank classes and believe me, you will be avoiding plenty of damage in a completely different (and in my opinion, much more difficult) way than you would avoid them in a game like WoW.

As far as not moving while attacking goes, it is what makes the game difficult. This game would be a joke if you could attack while moving, they would need to have literally 10 times the mobs, moving twice as fast to make it a challenge (in Korean MMO's you will generally be fighting 20-50 things at once). What it does do (for me at least), is make the game feel more clunky and I don't enjoy it more than what I was doing in Dragon's Nest for example.

I'll take your word on that since I don't play Korean MMOs very often.

I still believe they aren't really in any more direct competition than they are with any other MMO on the market. In my opinion Tera is a Westernized Korean action MMO, with the core gameplay being Korean but trying to attract the west with a questing and UI system more similar to what they are used to. Guild Wars 2 is a Western action MMO. They both have some things in common but at the end of the day they are quite different. As different as comparing say, Tales of Vesperia (an action JRPG) to something like Skyrim (an action WRPG).

That's not how it will show up in the stores, and you should know that. Every MMO is in competition with another as far as subscriptions are concerned, as few people can afford several MMO subscriptions at once. TERA and GW2 are in competition mostly because they will seem pretty similar to the average consumer. And right now, the latter is generally going to win that fight for most people because it lacks a subscription. Ergo, it doesn't matter how technical you try to make it....TERA has to do something very clearly unique and distinct, something that other games don't do. And so far as I've heard or seen, it does not differentiate itself enough from the pack to get a huge loyal following in the States.

How is the real time action combat new for MMOs? Out of boredom one day I stopped playing WoW and looked for a F2P MMO instead and found something called... DragonNest or something. Anyways, it pretty much had the same thing you just described. Gotta aim to land hits, use los, dodging.

I don't know, I don't venture too much into the MMO world outside of WoW.

ChocoFace:

Xiado:
Wow, one of the few reviews that didn't mention the loli race, how professional. Anyway, I wouldn't buy this game if I lived in Sweden, if I were you.

But you can tell for sure these weren't modeled after real children because they have bunny ears. Real children don't have those.
It's totally safe to play the "loli" race, guys.

I'm going to side with the majority here, though - that's a mighty price tag.

Yeah, having to accept that you might be at least a little bit of a pedophile is too steep a price to pay.

CriticKitten:
That sounds rather exactly like GW2, to be honest. Are you sure you've played a lot of both games? All I remember doing in GW2 events was running around, fending off enemies from every side.

I have, you don't exactly fight hordes of enemies in GW2, think the kind of stuff you fight in Diablo or Torchlight type games. Give Dragon's Nest a go or something if you're honestly curious at all about Tera's combat, you may be pleasantly surprised and it won't cost you a dime.

CriticKitten:

There are a multitude of action-adventure or RPG games which feature auto-aim functionality, which makes the analogy flawed and inaccurate. You are forming a very poor strawman here.

There's also a multitude of action RPG's with tanking or pet classes which tank things for you. If my argument is strawman, yours is as well. Also this is just my experience but I've played very few action games with auto aiming (the only one I can think of after the N64 era is the Zelda series and even then only with some things). I've played hordes of games where you must aim every strike however.

CriticKitten:

That's not how it will show up in the stores, and you should know that. Every MMO is in competition with another as far as subscriptions are concerned, as few people can afford several MMO subscriptions at once. TERA and GW2 are in competition mostly because they will seem pretty similar to the average consumer. And right now, the latter is generally going to win that fight for most people because it lacks a subscription. Ergo, it doesn't matter how technical you try to make it....TERA has to do something very clearly unique and distinct, something that other games don't do. And so far as I've heard or seen, it does not differentiate itself enough from the pack to get a huge loyal following in the States.

They will of course be in competition. I only meant that I believed they are in no more competition with each other than they are with WoW, Rift, the billion other MMO's or even Diablo III.

Irridium:
I'd probably be all over this game if not for The Old Republic. After playing that game... I just don't want to go back to the impersonal text boxes.

Now if a game came along that combined The Old Republic's focus on story with Tera's combat, well... I may never be heard from again.

image

Somebody needs to make this happen.

Travel powers/mounts are a must >>
And I like Gild wars 2 pricing scheme far more than pay to play...

Zeriah:
I have, you don't exactly fight hordes of enemies in GW2, think the kind of stuff you fight in Diablo or Torchlight type games. Give Dragon's Nest a go or something if you're honestly curious at all about Tera's combat, you may be pleasantly surprised and it won't cost you a dime.

I've got to assume you've never fought in a large event. I seem to recall doing several events in which I was pitched against hordes of enemies at a low level....granted, there were other players present so it wasn't Diablo, but there were plenty of opportunities for me to get surrounded and mobbed to death if I had been dumb enough to try to out-tank them all.

There's also a multitude of action RPG's with tanking or pet classes which tank things for you. If my argument is strawman, yours is as well. Also this is just my experience but I've played very few action games with auto aiming (the only one I can think of after the N64 era is the Zelda series and even then only with some things). I've played hordes of games where you must aim every strike however.

Except that:
a) We were talking action-adventure games, which is what the combat of both games are intended to be modeling.
b) Since I assume you're speaking of GW2's pets, I should note that GW2's pets aren't *supposed* to tank....and generally, they don't tank, they just die a lot. They and many NPCs are currently incapable of dodging, and this is widely believed to be a bug due to a lack of sufficient combat AI for them. Unless this "feature" shows up in the final product, I think it's premature to say it's intentional design.

Also, here's some samples of games in the "Action-Adventure" genre which feature an auto-aim function:
Alan Wake
Alice: Madness Returns
Deadly Premonition
Red Dead Redemption

And that was me trying to avoid action-adventurer shooters or any hybrids of that nature, too, though they obviously would count. Suffice it to say there are plenty of these, and it's likely outnumbering the "tank" AA subgenre by a fair amount.

So no, yours is still definitely a straw-man of a much greater magnitude. My point was merely to emphasize that avoiding combat fire is definitely the norm, and tanking is most definitely not.

They will of course be in competition. I only meant that I believed they are in no more competition with each other than they are with WoW, Rift, the billion other MMO's or even Diablo III.

Technically it'd be more accurate to say that GW2 doesn't compete with the others in the same fashion by virtue of being subscription-less (ergo they don't NEED to steal people's subscriptions, since they've got their money once you buy the game itself).

But in terms of comparing similarities between games, it's most certainly fair to say that TERA and GW2 will be seen as pretty similar on the open market, which means that TERA is going to struggle since it's subscription vs a non-subscription game. Unless of course:

1) They provide something unique to draw in customers, but presently they don't.
2) They release before GW2, but then they have to fight to retain their players once GW2 comes out.

In either case I don't see it going too well for them. I expect TERA to pull better numbers than SWTOR, but not by a lot. GW2....is harder to judge since their numbers will be based on copies sold, NOT subscriptions, but I expect it'll beat both TERA and SWTOR at this time since it has the lowest overall and upfront costs of any of the three. So at the very least, it's the most accessible in price.

Can't help but notice how the map looks near-identical to WoW's original map; two fairly-vertical continents opposite each other. Not to say the game in any way is trying to clone WoW, but you'd think that they'd try and steer away from a map that makes it seem like they are.

At any rate, if I get into any other MMO, it'll probably be this one, just to see how it plays out. Probably won't be for a while, though.

Bleh, that looks completely unappealing. When they said action combat, I was expecting much more than that, if that's action combat, so is GW2 (and hint, neither are). Looks a bit like Two Worlds.

Can a game company please go dig out the Jedi Knight games? Seriously, single player or MMO (considering that game is now 10 years old and ran on a Quake 3 engine, I reckon they should be able to pull off the damn thing, even in an MMO), I don't care, I just wanna see a game like that again, it's been way too long and most of the games I've seen that advertise on being "action" end up being as far as possible from the term through ridiculously stiff combat.

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