Withholding Information

Withholding Information

Gaining a strategic advantage by denying your opponent information.

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The phrase "duh" immediately sprung to mind on this one.

Isn't this fairly standard?

Zachary Amaranth:
The phrase "duh" immediately sprung to mind on this one.

Isn't this fairly standard?

How many people have you tried to teach this to? This isn't all instinctive to newer players, they tend to not do these things.

Of course, if you manage to give your spells flash, then even these rules change. I'm a really big fan of Alchemist's refuge because of how much stranger it makes the game.

Encaen:
Say you're attacking with Primeval Titan and the opponent is blocking with Grand Abolisher, Loyal Cathar, and a 3/3 Champion of the Parish. If after blockers are declared you cast your Doom Blade on the Champion, you've not only saved your Titan, but cleared out three opposing creatures at the cost of a single card.

Green/Black?! It would never work!

vxicepickxv:
How many people have you tried to teach this to? This isn't all instinctive to newer players, they tend to not do these things.

Recently? None. But my friends were all doing this back when Magic was brand freaking new, so it's not like they were told to do it by the internet or anything.

Zachary Amaranth:

vxicepickxv:
How many people have you tried to teach this to? This isn't all instinctive to newer players, they tend to not do these things.

Recently? None. But my friends were all doing this back when Magic was brand freaking new, so it's not like they were told to do it by the internet or anything.

I'm guessing then that your friends had a pretty good tendency to play a wide variety of games then.

Draconalis:

Encaen:
Say you're attacking with Primeval Titan and the opponent is blocking with Grand Abolisher, Loyal Cathar, and a 3/3 Champion of the Parish. If after blockers are declared you cast your Doom Blade on the Champion, you've not only saved your Titan, but cleared out three opposing creatures at the cost of a single card.

Green/Black?! It would never work!

Unless it does work. I'm working on a black/green deck just so I can try to get wolfhunter's quiver equipped onto a Dread Slaver so I can steal creatures. I'd also need a Nightshade peddler for some deathtouch.

Draconalis:

Encaen:
Say you're attacking with Primeval Titan and the opponent is blocking with Grand Abolisher, Loyal Cathar, and a 3/3 Champion of the Parish. If after blockers are declared you cast your Doom Blade on the Champion, you've not only saved your Titan, but cleared out three opposing creatures at the cost of a single card.

Green/Black?! It would never work!

Unless you have both swamps and forests in your deck.

Encaen:
Withholding Information

Gaining a strategic advantage by denying your opponent information.

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I've actually noticed the CPU doing the exact same thing at times in the computer game "duel of the planeswalkers", particularly with opponents with Jace decks. For instance, at times, I'll play a decent card like Zombie Warlord and shortly afterward, my opponent will play Repulse on it.

vxicepickxv:
Unless it does work. I'm working on a black/green deck just so I can try to get wolfhunter's quiver equipped onto a Dread Slaver so I can steal creatures. I'd also need a Nightshade peddler for some deathtouch.

I've had two green/black decks in my time... and I'll tell you exactly what they do. They give you land after land after land. You'll end the game, win or lose with 11 land minimum.

It shocks me how often it happens to my G/B decks...

That being said, have you considered a good ol Royal Assassin so you can kill creatures repeatedly?

This is actually fairly important info for most people.

I still make these kinds of mistakes. The other day, for instance, my opponent had used Gitaxian probe on me and had seen a land (a swamp) and two other cards. On my next few turns, I drew a land or two, and I played those rather then the swamp. This was the correct play, because I didn't need the swamp (I play black only for the flashback on a single card, and mana of other colors can be more useful), except it wasn't because my opponent then knew I hadn't drawn action that turn.

It wasn't a major mistake, and while I lost the game (by a single HP) I don't think it made a difference, but it's still something to be on the lookout for.

To be honest, when I first read the title, I thought this article would be about players withholding information by being jerks about it. An example that springs to mind is from a draft night at a local hobby shop, one of the regulars refused to tell his opponent who was starting out what some of the basic abilities of cards did (what is first strike, deathtouch, etc...) to win a draft match easily.

As for the topic, this is why I almost never empty my hand. Even if I draw a land card, I usually hold onto it just because, if you play it, you tell your opponent that you are not an unknown threat during their turn. I especially loved the phyrexian mana cost of some cards, because it meant a player that was tapped out was still able to cast spells.

Draconalis:

I've had two green/black decks in my time... and I'll tell you exactly what they do. They give you land after land after land. You'll end the game, win or lose with 11 land minimum.

It shocks me how often it happens to my G/B decks...

That seems unlikely, unless you're running a lot of ramp. Consider running fewer land fetch cards if this is always happening.

DArkAbyssKeeper:

That seems unlikely, unless you're running a lot of ramp. Consider running fewer land fetch cards if this is always happening.

Not a whole lotta ramp... one deck was kinda morbid themed, so it ran dawntreaders, but I tend to go more for creature ramp than land ramp anyway.

It just always happens...

Zachary Amaranth:
The phrase "duh" immediately sprung to mind on this one.

Isn't this fairly standard?

I for one barely know my way around the psychological tricks of Magic, despite having played for nigh on eight years. This was actually some much-needed help for me... I make a lot of misplays and simple little errors that always end up costing me the game. =/

vxicepickxv:
I'm guessing then that your friends had a pretty good tendency to play a wide variety of games then.

not really, no.

I think we tried Rage when it came out, and there was Netrunner or whatever it was called much later. Oh, and like a decade later one of my friends picked up "Yu-Gi-Oh."

But seriously? Even without the newer stuff like Flash, is this hard to pick up? It's kind of...Strategy. Isn't that what M:tG is about? I'm not trying to be rude, but hot damn, this just seems inconceivable to me.

Evil Alpaca:
To be honest, when I first read the title, I thought this article would be about players withholding information by being jerks about it. An example that springs to mind is from a draft night at a local hobby shop, one of the regulars refused to tell his opponent who was starting out what some of the basic abilities of cards did (what is first strike, deathtouch, etc...) to win a draft match easily.

As for the topic, this is why I almost never empty my hand. Even if I draw a land card, I usually hold onto it just because, if you play it, you tell your opponent that you are not an unknown threat during their turn. I especially loved the phyrexian mana cost of some cards, because it meant a player that was tapped out was still able to cast spells.

Yeah, that's just poor sportsmanship. I certainly don't condone that kind of behavior in Magic or anything. Also, I love Phyrexian mana for just that reason. Surprise! Mutagenic Growth :D

Draconalis:
Not a whole lotta ramp... one deck was kinda morbid themed, so it ran dawntreaders, but I tend to go more for creature ramp than land ramp anyway.

It just always happens...

It sounds like you suffer with Trujkin on this, with the same style of deck even. I've rarely seen a game with his BG Ramp where he didn't flood on lands, and I helped him revise it a couple of times, so I'm confident the land balance is correct. Nothing like a late-game glut of land to just ruin your day.

I feel this article was for me. Since Encaen is my teacher and I STILL do bonehead moves.

Encaen:

It sounds like you suffer with Trujkin on this, with the same style of deck even. I've rarely seen a game with his BG Ramp where he didn't flood on lands, and I helped him revise it a couple of times, so I'm confident the land balance is correct. Nothing like a late-game glut of land to just ruin your day.

Or early game... or mid game... and especially all game.

Both of my G/B decks were played against each other for a match... same result. We both had 10+ lands.

Myan:
I feel this article was for me. Since Encaen is my teacher and I STILL do bonehead moves.

It took months before my cousin finally stopped trying to block the same flier {Vault Skirge) with grounders.

Just takes time.

I kinda expected to see a comment about when I Summoning Trapped Emrakul, the Aeons Torn in to block Encaen's something or another. I think it was a Strangleroot Geist. Good times :D

We still up for some play tomorrow Encaen?

Zachary Amaranth:
The phrase "duh" immediately sprung to mind on this one.

Isn't this fairly standard?

I kind of know how you feel. Subjects that I feel like I can easily grasp is something way harder on other people. Sometimes, 'basics' just don't get in. It's different for everyone. Maybe you were playing with smarter people all the time.

Even I can say that I play like that a lot, even though it's not a good idea.

As I always say, the only life point that matters is your last.

I used to make those mistakes all the time. I still do occasionally. Drawing a land and immediately playing it is a bad habit.

Draconalis:

vxicepickxv:
Unless it does work. I'm working on a black/green deck just so I can try to get wolfhunter's quiver equipped onto a Dread Slaver so I can steal creatures. I'd also need a Nightshade peddler for some deathtouch.

I've had two green/black decks in my time... and I'll tell you exactly what they do. They give you land after land after land. You'll end the game, win or lose with 11 land minimum.

It shocks me how often it happens to my G/B decks...

That being said, have you considered a good ol Royal Assassin so you can kill creatures repeatedly?

The assassins are only for creatures I don't want to steal.

vxicepickxv:
How many people have you tried to teach this to?

It is applicable in almost any situation in real life, thus this is something you should already understand by the time you are old enough to drive out to the MtG meet or whatever.

Evil Alpaca:
To be honest, when I first read the title, I thought this article would be about players withholding information by being jerks about it. An example that springs to mind is from a draft night at a local hobby shop, one of the regulars refused to tell his opponent who was starting out what some of the basic abilities of cards did (what is first strike, deathtouch, etc...) to win a draft match easily.

As for the topic, this is why I almost never empty my hand. Even if I draw a land card, I usually hold onto it just because, if you play it, you tell your opponent that you are not an unknown threat during their turn. I especially loved the phyrexian mana cost of some cards, because it meant a player that was tapped out was still able to cast spells.

Oh wow. What an asshole. Why even play if you're going to be like that? Where's the fun? Not cool.

vxicepickxv:
The assassins are only for creatures I don't want to steal.

I don't think you understand. If you tap to deal damage to a creature, then tap the assassin to kill it, you still gain control of it. So why would you not want to take advantage of that?

 

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