Hitman: Plan B

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Poor Agent 47, even on his Birthday, someone's trying to kill him.

Least he can grope the corpse afterwords.

So it's misogynistic to kill women but mowing down legions of men in every game is ok? Fuck that person from IGN.

Good comic as usual.

I understand that the trailer misrepresents the nature of the Hitman franchise but seriously...

This trailer panders to violence-worship and misogynistic desires that have nothing to do with the game, and that surely don't exist in the minds of Hitman fans.

Ms MacDonald, I'd like to introduce you a fascinating creature called the human male.

Qitz:
Poor Agent 47, even on his Birthday, someone's trying to kill him.

Least he can grope the corpse afterwords.

Are you kidding? That was his best birthday ever!

Matthew94:
So it's misogynistic to kill women but mowing down legions of men in every game is ok? Fuck that person from IGN.

Good comic as usual.

Well it kinda is when they're dressed in lengire.

Grey Carter:
A bad habit.

We'll be having nun of that today Mr. Carter

Considering that the entire basis of this game is to skillfully murder people, I'd stay that person at IGN has their wires crossed.

Also, considering that some of Agent 47's previous missions have involved obese butchers at fetish parties, porn barons at christmas shindigs, and anarchists in bird costumes, this isn't even the oddest thing I've seen in a Hitman game.

While it's not quite the attack against women some have seen it as, it certainly is dumb and, assuming the shock value was intentional (why wouldn't it be?) really quite pathetic. Is this how videogame advertising is always going to be? Are we going to see 47 strangling a baby in the next trailer to rile up the controversey machine?

Secret world leader (shhh):
While it's not quite the attack against women some have seen it as, it certainly is dumb and, assuming the shock value was intentional (why wouldn't it be?) really quite pathetic. Is this how videogame advertising is always going to be? Are we going to see 47 strangling a baby in the next trailer to rile up the controversey machine?

Controversy sells apparently. At least that's what the marketing team takes away from the likes of Modern Warfare. First the nuke, then the airport terrorism, then the...whatever it was in #3. Chemical bombs in London? Yeah, that. Then Treyarch went and got a war criminal to advertise Black Ops 2, which I think was the most preordered game in history?

It's hard to argue with numbers like those. I don't like it any better than you, but the numbers game is not in our favour.

Kill a man: regular day at work.
Kill a women: WHAT THE FUCK IS GOING ON?! WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE?!?!?!?!

Why is this still a thing? =|

Also, great comic. I would love to play a game where mostly naked women with nipple tassels wielding uzis jump out of cakes and try to kill me.

Amnestic:

Secret world leader (shhh):
While it's not quite the attack against women some have seen it as, it certainly is dumb and, assuming the shock value was intentional (why wouldn't it be?) really quite pathetic. Is this how videogame advertising is always going to be? Are we going to see 47 strangling a baby in the next trailer to rile up the controversey machine?

Controversy sells apparently. At least that's what the marketing team takes away from the likes of Modern Warfare. First the nuke, then the airport terrorism, then the...whatever it was in #3. Chemical bombs in London? Yeah, that. Then Treyarch went and got a war criminal to advertise Black Ops 2, which I think was the most preordered game in history?

It's hard to argue with numbers like those. I don't like it any better than you, but the numbers game is not in our favour.

I'm not sure if I would say, "controversy sells" but it certainly doesn't hurt.
If you get a lot of people talking about something, then that is positive marketing. It doesn't matter if they are talking about how bad it is or how good it is, it is a good thing for a lot of people to be talking about your product. Obviously you want people to say good things about your product, but I'd rather 10,000 people talking shit about my product, than 10 people talking about how good it is.

Its like how a lot of the big threads I have seen (big meaning: a shit-ton of posts) have been about controversial topics.
Or its like the difference between saying "I really like Metroid Prime" and "Metroid: Other M is the best Metroid game ever".
The internet Humans have always been weird in the regard that there will always be more people willing to disagree with you and tell you how wrong you are, compared to the amount of people agreeing with you and telling you how right you are.

What gets me is there is only logical reason why there would be rubber nuns attacking. They must have just come from the escapist 4th July party and been listening to Yahtzee and decided to take out various game characters. I can believe that, after I saw that photo of guy in welsh dragon costume doing something eye watering to a person dressed as Nathan Fillion at last years party.

OH God What happened to that strippers spine? Does she have scoliosis?

Torrasque:
Kill a man: regular day at work.
Kill a women: WHAT THE FUCK IS GOING ON?! WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE?!?!?!?!

Why is this still a thing? =|

Also, great comic. I would love to play a game where mostly naked women with nipple tassels wielding uzis jump out of cakes and try to kill me.

Its a matter of context and empowerment/dis-empowerment really. A woman portrayed as a vicious gangland boss who has people killed on a whim? I don't think people will bat an eyelid at her being assassinated. And I don't have a problem fighting female enemies portrayed as capable fighters.

Fighting women who's defining characteristic is fetish gear? Thats a little uncomfortable. Why couldn't they be dressed in, say, mafia-esque black suits and shades? And that poster linked in the blurb, of the beautiful woman in a sexy outfit, and a 'pretty little headshot' combined with the subtitle of the advert is really not good.

Huh, evidently the message needs to be more overt.

IT IS NOT THAT WOMEN DIED IN THE AD, IT'S BECAUSE THEY FELT THE NEED TO SEXUALIZE THE WOMEN DYING THAT IS THE CAUSE OF CONTROVERSY!!

Can we stop with the fucking 'if it were men you wouldn't be angry' bullshit now? Because if it were men, then they wouldn't be being sexualized!! Which is the reason that there was a controversy!

My god I can't believe so many people can read the woman's article and completely miss the point that she made over and over again and instead make up an argument born of their own imagination and diminish it.
Can you say 'Straw man in pathetic attempt to portray wounded puppy routine'?

I've already made a massive post on this so I'll leave the link for it:
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.376929-My-views-on-the-controversy-over-the-new-Hitman-trailer?page=2#14702444

No offence Grey, but I'd hoped you of all people would have a better understanding of what the issue was. I like your work, it's pretty smart and well done for the most part and I like the character Erin Stout that you created, I just don't like it when people add to the fire rather than put it out.

EDIT: Oh never mind, just saw that you quote mined one out-of-context section of her argument and didn't leave a link to the article for people check. I'm just going to leave a link and leave a quote from her article:

"Let's be clear here: the problem is not that Agent 47 is graphically murdering a group of women, though that's pretty nasty. It's that it fetishizes the violence and sexualises the women, drawing a clear line between sex and graphic violence that makes the trailer really distressing to watch, and leaves you questioning who the hell it's designed to appeal to."

Source:http://au.ign.com/articles/2012/05/30/opinion-what-the-hell-is-with-that-hitman-trailer

EDIT: Also she doesn't project an ideology onto the ad, that bit about them 'deserving it' was just a passing reference.

TO be fair, 47 does seem to attract alot of scantily clad female assassins that want to kill him.

The butt cheek tattoo assassin at the Playboy Christmas party.

The Crazy Crow Lady of New Orleans

And the Angle of High End Las Vegas Parties Who Cannot Sing for Digity.

It therefore does not surprise me to see this in the trailer. Would it really be better for 47 to be accosted by the Normal Suit Wearing Assassins Guild of Bland Stereotypes?

What I can see people being justifiably angry about is the lack of the Hitman feel, although I do think that showing such a thing like that off in a trailer would be rather dull.

OniaPL:

Torrasque:
Kill a man: regular day at work.
Kill a women: WHAT THE FUCK IS GOING ON?! WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE?!?!?!?!

Why is this still a thing? =|

Also, great comic. I would love to play a game where mostly naked women with nipple tassels wielding uzis jump out of cakes and try to kill me.

Oh my god, the stupidity...

Attitudes like this are what are hindering gender equality. If chauvinistic individuals such as yourself don't stop trying to bring women down to the same level as men and treat them the same, equality between the genders will never be attained.

I had to read this a few times to understand what you were saying, but I don't think it is your fault. I kind of haven't slept in 24 hours and am only awake because of cool jazz and Monster :D

You realize I am kidding right? I am making fun of the people who consider the gender of the person being killed (or doing the killing) an important factor. I really don't see the difference between a woman trying to kill someone and a man trying to kill someone.
Sure I may consider the woman in tight leather pants, sexier than the man in tight leather pants, but that is a different thing, lol.

Windknight:
Its a matter of context and empowerment/dis-empowerment really. A woman portrayed as a vicious gangland boss who has people killed on a whim? I don't think people will bat an eyelid at her being assassinated. And I don't have a problem fighting female enemies portrayed as capable fighters.

Fighting women who's defining characteristic is fetish gear? Thats a little uncomfortable. Why couldn't they be dressed in, say, mafia-esque black suits and shades? And that poster linked in the blurb, of the beautiful woman in a sexy outfit, and a 'pretty little headshot' combined with the subtitle of the advert us really not good.

You know what would be a really amusing game to play?
A game where the clothing of the male enemies and female enemies were all swapped. So you get a normal game made by Ubisoft or something, any game where the women all have 10cm of clothing and the men have enough clothing for 3 guys, and then you swap them.

So all the women are in suits or look really gruff, and the men are in tight revealing clothing and make-up.
I think it would be hilarious and very enlightening. It would have to be made by Suda 51 though, I think he's the only guy who would be able to pull it off and keep the tone in check.

Torrasque:

So all the women are in suits or look really gruff, and the men are in tight revealing clothing and make-up.
I think it would be hilarious and very enlightening. It would have to be made by Suda 51 though, I think he's the only guy who would be able to pull it off and keep the tone in check.

I've said before that I'd really like to see a developer have the guts to do something like that. If only to see the gaming communities reaction to it.

But of course that will never happen, which is the central thesis in my argument as to why the 'if this same situation happened but with men you wouldn't be angry' is fundamentally flawed.

Vrex360:
*snip*

I got used to women being sexualized in gaming a very long time ago, so my mind kind of glazed over that.
I'm sorry? /shrug

Torrasque:

Vrex360:
*snip*

I got used to women being sexualized in gaming a very long time ago, so my mind kind of glazed over that.
I'm sorry? /shrug

No no, nothing against you. I was actually agreeing with you, I would like to see someone have the guts to completely reverse the gender roles. I just know that will never happen.

Read my post above that I linked, I explain what I mean with this issue a bit better.

The problem is that it looks more like a Saints Row trailer (Hell the Assassin's are even called "The Saints") than a Hitman trailer. The problem is NOT that a woman gets her face smashed in, the problem is that she's in fetish gear as opposed to regular clothing.

Torrasque:

A game where the clothing of the male enemies and female enemies were all swapped. So you get a normal game made by Ubisoft or something, any game where the women all have 10cm of clothing and the men have enough clothing for 3 guys, and then you swap them.

So all the women are in suits or look really gruff, and the men are in tight revealing clothing and make-up.
I think it would be hilarious and very enlightening. It would have to be made by Suda 51 though, I think he's the only guy who would be able to pull it off and keep the tone in check.

Every time I've seen fanart do that - put male characters/superheroes in female costumes and poses, a lot of male posters have reacted akin to having had bleach poured into their eyes and acting like the whole thing is an evil affront that should never have been done.

And many of these same people will act like people complaining about said outfits on women are just being oversensitive.

Matthew94:
So it's misogynistic to kill women but mowing down legions of men in every game is ok? Fuck that person from IGN.

Please read my first post on this thread (big blue letters). The actual argument that the woman from IGN made was nothing like that.

It wasn't 'women shouldn't be killed' it was 'we shouldn't sexualize the death of women'.

Vrex360:

Torrasque:

Vrex360:
*snip*

I got used to women being sexualized in gaming a very long time ago, so my mind kind of glazed over that.
I'm sorry? /shrug

No no, nothing against you. I was actually agreeing with you, I would like to see someone have the guts to completely reverse the gender roles. I just know that will never happen.

Read my post above that I linked, I explain what I mean with this issue a bit better.

I was quoting your first post with the giant bold "YOU ARE ALL MISSING THE POINT!" at the top. I would have quoted you without the snippage, but I don't like quoting big giant posts because I think it looks ugly.

Lets see this post of yours... Omg it is so lonnnnng =|
Ehhh, I guess I'll read it, but this will take a while, lol.

Windknight:

Torrasque:

A game where the clothing of the male enemies and female enemies were all swapped. So you get a normal game made by Ubisoft or something, any game where the women all have 10cm of clothing and the men have enough clothing for 3 guys, and then you swap them.

So all the women are in suits or look really gruff, and the men are in tight revealing clothing and make-up.
I think it would be hilarious and very enlightening. It would have to be made by Suda 51 though, I think he's the only guy who would be able to pull it off and keep the tone in check.

Every time I've seen fanart do that - put male characters/superheroes in female costumes and poses, a lot of male posters have reacted akin to having had bleach poured into their eyes and acting like the whole thing is an evil affront that should never have been done.

And many of these same people will act like people complaining about said outfits on women are just being oversensitive.

I've always been bothered by people that do that.

These guys--I don't like to generalize, but it really is guys that do this more than girls--will say "oh, well there is nothing wrong with women wearing a bikini and fighting guys in full plate mail" (see any Soul Calibur game ever), but then be "WHAT THE HELL. WHY DOES THIS GUY HAVE SO LITTLE CLOTHING ON. I DON'T WANT TO SEE THIS SHIT!".

Its like they are expecting or even demanding that the characters wear clothing that they like. Ivy gets less and less clothing in each Soul Calibur game = just as expected. Mitsurugi goes from full Samurai armor to a SLIGHTLY revealing Kimono = RRRRAAAAAAAGGGGGGEEEEEEEE.

You know what would have made a better trailer.

If the actual mothafuking Third Street Saints served as the antagonists.

While it isn't "the worst thing to happen to women" in a game, I do think it does bring up a bit of an issue in games. Namely the whole; if we're going to have them kill women we might as well let them see their underwear first.

That's not completely bad on its own, but I doubt the guys 47 is going to kill are going to strip before they die.

Anyway I think Carter brought up a bit less questionable problem with the whole this doesn't really look like Hitman action.
You would think they would use an assassination to show off the game, but no; "Lets go with the crazy action bit that looks like it got rejected from the Kill Bill movies for being over the top", they said. Again, not to bad on its own, but I don't think that's what Hitman is suppose to be about, and like Carter said that by itself is bad advertising. Unless that is what the game is like, then it's just truthful advertising.

Vrex360:
*snipped because I am just quoting you to let you know I read your big long post*

Everything you said made perfect sense.

Thinking back to this trailer, I can honestly say that they are going for every kind of controversy they can get their hands on.
A group of women, dressed as nuns, take off their clothes, but are actually wearing very obviously sexual clothing rather than tactical gear, are brutally killed by a man, who casually kills them, even over-powering a few and taking no damage from their attacks.

7 issues! That is an issuemanjaro!

This really is a fucked up trailer...

Torrasque:

Vrex360:
*snipped because I am just quoting you to let you know I read your big long post*

Everything you said made perfect sense.

Thinking back to this trailer, I can honestly say that they are going for every kind of controversy they can get their hands on.
A group of women, dressed as nuns, take off their clothes, but are actually wearing very obviously sexual clothing rather than tactical gear, are brutally killed by a man, who casually kills them, even over-powering a few and taking no damage from their attacks.

7 issues! That is an issuemanjaro!

This really is a fucked up trailer...

He gets slashed up quite a bit by the last two battle nuns.

Is this really a big deal it's just a random stupid trailer made to drum up some quick publicity, no real harm done and everyone will forget about it by the time a new trailer pops up like always.

JohnDoey:

Torrasque:

Vrex360:
*snipped because I am just quoting you to let you know I read your big long post*

Everything you said made perfect sense.

Thinking back to this trailer, I can honestly say that they are going for every kind of controversy they can get their hands on.
A group of women, dressed as nuns, take off their clothes, but are actually wearing very obviously sexual clothing rather than tactical gear, are brutally killed by a man, who casually kills them, even over-powering a few and taking no damage from their attacks.

7 issues! That is an issuemanjaro!

This really is a fucked up trailer...

He gets slashed up quite a bit by the last two battle nuns.

It is more of a *poke* "ow that kind of hurt" *BRUTALIZES NUN THAT SLASHED HIM*, than any real harm.
Yes he is the heroin, but I'm pretty sure a trained assassin with a pair of daggers that has your back exposed, is smart enough to plant them in your exposed kidneys.

Maybe if they were bread knives she would have done more dps? HEYOOOO~!!!

Torrasque:

OniaPL:

Torrasque:
Kill a man: regular day at work.
Kill a women: WHAT THE FUCK IS GOING ON?! WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE?!?!?!?!

Why is this still a thing? =|

Also, great comic. I would love to play a game where mostly naked women with nipple tassels wielding uzis jump out of cakes and try to kill me.

Oh my god, the stupidity...

Attitudes like this are what are hindering gender equality. If chauvinistic individuals such as yourself don't stop trying to bring women down to the same level as men and treat them the same, equality between the genders will never be attained.

I had to read this a few times to understand what you were saying, but I don't think it is your fault. I kind of haven't slept in 24 hours and am only awake because of cool jazz and Monster :D

You realize I am kidding right? I am making fun of the people who consider the gender of the person being killed (or doing the killing) an important factor. I really don't see the difference between a woman trying to kill someone and a man trying to kill someone.
Sure I may consider the woman in tight leather pants, sexier than the man in tight leather pants, but that is a different thing, lol.

I know you were kidding, obviously I was making a comment on what the woman from IGN said. I find it ridiculous that sometimes the people who want to be treated the same as the other sex want to be treated differently.

Torrasque:

JohnDoey:

Torrasque:
Everything you said made perfect sense.

Thinking back to this trailer, I can honestly say that they are going for every kind of controversy they can get their hands on.
A group of women, dressed as nuns, take off their clothes, but are actually wearing very obviously sexual clothing rather than tactical gear, are brutally killed by a man, who casually kills them, even over-powering a few and taking no damage from their attacks.

7 issues! That is an issuemanjaro!

This really is a fucked up trailer...

He gets slashed up quite a bit by the last two battle nuns.

It is more of a *poke* "ow that kind of hurt" *BRUTALIZES NUN THAT SLASHED HIM*, than any real harm.
Yes he is the heroin, but I'm pretty sure a trained assassin with a pair of daggers that has your back exposed, is smart enough to plant them in your exposed kidneys.

Maybe if they were bread knives she would have done more dps? HEYOOOO~!!!

Honestly I like the trailer because I hold hope that at some point in the game 47 joins forces with the battle nuns and becomes a battle priest and together they form the roving battle church officials gang, going on wicked church based adventures. Also from the bread knives comment, I want a mission were the only weapon you have is a stale bagel and the packet of jelly.

OniaPL:

Torrasque:

OniaPL:

Oh my god, the stupidity...

Attitudes like this are what are hindering gender equality. If chauvinistic individuals such as yourself don't stop trying to bring women down to the same level as men and treat them the same, equality between the genders will never be attained.

I had to read this a few times to understand what you were saying, but I don't think it is your fault. I kind of haven't slept in 24 hours and am only awake because of cool jazz and Monster :D

You realize I am kidding right? I am making fun of the people who consider the gender of the person being killed (or doing the killing) an important factor. I really don't see the difference between a woman trying to kill someone and a man trying to kill someone.
Sure I may consider the woman in tight leather pants, sexier than the man in tight leather pants, but that is a different thing, lol.

I know you were kidding, obviously I was making a comment on what the woman from IGN said. I find it ridiculous that sometimes the people who want to be treated the same as the other sex want to be treated differently.

Oh ok, I'm sorry for the misunderstanding.
Just a few more hours and I can get some sleep...

The saddest thing is all the men who try to rationalize shit like this, who claim that explicitly sexualised violence against women is the same as violence against men, and generally drape themselves in false shroud of victimhood. Sigh, I need a beer...

I do wish him a lot of luck trying to strangle someone like shown in the cartoon. That'll take forever.

But it's a great satire regardless. The more stuff like this I see of Absolution, the more I think they're really going to help the Hitman series to shit with that stuff.

MatsVS:
who claim that explicitly sexualised violence against women is the same as violence against men

But it is, it really is. Punch a woman or punch a man; in both cases it's not so nice to do, and it hurts.

Torrasque:
It is more of a *poke* "ow that kind of hurt" *BRUTALIZES NUN THAT SLASHED HIM*, than any real harm.
Yes he is the heroin, but I'm pretty sure a trained assassin with a pair of daggers that has your back exposed, is smart enough to plant them in your exposed kidneys.

Maybe if they were bread knives she would have done more dps? HEYOOOO~!!!

Stab proof vest? Be a fairly clever investment in has line of work. Also he is the hero, not a brand of opiate painkiller.

OT: Yeah, if this had been a guy dispatching a band of female mercs in tac gear then it would have felt a bit odd but sticking them in sexy nun fancy dress is a bit of an eyebrow raiser. I mean, did you see the shoes at the start? Walking in something like that must be a mare, let alone engaging in hand to hand combat, sneaking around quietly or maintaining your balance while firing a weapon.

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