Hitman: Plan B

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I don't see why people hate the latest Hitman trailer. It is completely consistent with weirdness that had always surrounded Hitman world. The atmosphere is very Hitman-ish, nuns are as well. Just remember all the weird shit from previous Hitman games: meat king and those crazy people at the party, assassin's dressed as birds, albino assassin, evil guy in a wheelchair with a facial scar, insane costumes in "A Dance with The Devil" mission in Blood Money. The trailer is as Hitman as you can get.

Buretsu:

itsthesheppy:
They wore those outfits to titillate *you*.

If they only wanted to titillate, they wouldn't have had them brutally killed afterwards.

You've obviously not heard of the old schlock rule of have them get their tits out before killing them, so the audience doesn't see a sexy wimmins 'wasted'.

And thats without getting into misogynistic territory like Species II where the women are only there to get naked and die as horribly as possible.

Windknight:

Buretsu:

itsthesheppy:
They wore those outfits to titillate *you*.

If they only wanted to titillate, they wouldn't have had them brutally killed afterwards.

You've obviously not heard of the old schlock rule of have them get their tits out before killing them, so the audience doesn't see a sexy wimmins 'wasted'.

And thats without getting into misogynistic territory like Species II where the women are only there to get naked and die as horribly as possible.

A sexy woman killed is already a sexy woman wasted.

And that's not getting into horror movies, the point of which is to shock the audience with the painful and gruesome deaths of all genders involved.

Matthew94:
So it's misogynistic to kill women but mowing down legions of men in every game is ok? Fuck that person from IGN.

Good comic as usual.

Exactly my thoughts.

I actually always thought it was good that Hitman can mow down men and women alike.
Making no difference is the one step towards equal rights.

Buretsu:

Windknight:

Buretsu:

If they only wanted to titillate, they wouldn't have had them brutally killed afterwards.

You've obviously not heard of the old schlock rule of have them get their tits out before killing them, so the audience doesn't see a sexy wimmins 'wasted'.

And thats without getting into misogynistic territory like Species II where the women are only there to get naked and die as horribly as possible.

A sexy woman killed is already a sexy woman wasted.

And that's not getting into horror movies, the point of which is to shock the audience with the painful and gruesome deaths of all genders involved.

A lot of schlock stuff treats women as a pair of boobs to die once their use is over. take the infamous 'Death Wish' films, where the hero sets out to avenge the rape and murder of his wife/daughter/girlfriend of week, where the crime each time was shot in a manner to titillate the male audience as much as possible, including one of the victims giving us a lovely close up full-frontal nude pose before being fatally shot, simply so the lads could ogle her naked body before she died.

People get upset about this sort of thing because it is wrong, and it keeps happening when it shouldn't.

This comic is so accurate lol. It was basically what I was thinking.

Buretsu:

itsthesheppy:
They wore those outfits to titillate *you*.

If they only wanted to titillate, they wouldn't have had them brutally killed afterwards.

They didn't *only* want to. they felt like that had to try, otherwise you wouldn't care.

Well, duh. It was indeed a pretty stupid trailer, but wasn't Blood Money advertised with 47 about to electrocute some poor lady taking a bath with a toaster (which was not in the game in any shape or form, by the way)? That was pretty fucked up, too. And the Hitman games were always pretty damn fucked up, well beyond the simple fact that you're an assassin whose job it is to kill without discrimination and with disturbing amounts of forethought.

captcha: smoking guns
Indeed.
image

I just realised my comment had no conclusion or argument whatsoever.
Fuck.

Susan Arendt:
My biggest issue with the trailer is the damn clothes. Not because they're sexualize, per se, but because they make no goddamn sense.

I completely agree. In fact, I just made the exact same point about the shoes on the forum linked to the trailer. I mean, I'm OK with the fact that it's sacrilegious because, you know, they're the bad guys and what do they care? But I'm pretty sure that they do care about the effectiveness of their assassinations.
By the way, I do have one question and I wouldn't know this, because I'm not a woman; I get why high heels wouldn't work, but how exactly would fishnet stockings impede your fighting ability?

itsthesheppy:

Buretsu:

itsthesheppy:
They wore those outfits to titillate *you*.

If they only wanted to titillate, they wouldn't have had them brutally killed afterwards.

They didn't *only* want to. they felt like that had to try, otherwise you wouldn't care.

It's a trailer, designed to shock to bring attention to the game. The shocks of stripping down from nuns into sexy clothes, and the shocks of people getting easily and brutally killed sure have done their job.

I.. kinda.. got why they dressed as nuns? I mean they are employed as by the agency and seeming as there up against a guy who shows little to no human emotion and dresses like a stock broker, It would make sense for stylish and over the top violence at this point. I do find it odd that the media exploded the way it did, and yes, Carter did a good job parodying it. I honestly can see killer strippers. They did it without controversy in Saints, can't see why they wouldn't be able to do it in here.

I was thinking about where the Hitman series seems to stand when it comes to violence. And I've come to this conclusion. While most series attempt to trivialize violence and murder as an everyday thing, the Hitman series is all about assassination. By the very nature of the profession portrayed, it's about, like they said, a ritualized act that requires planning, precision, and perfect timing to allow the player to not only off their target, but to do it without arousing suspicion. Because at the core, the highest ideal one can shoot for in those games is to get in, perform whatever needs to be done to get to the target, do the deed, and then escape without anyone being the wiser. Preferably if the death looks like an accident.

To illustrate the point, imagine a regular game of violence as a mass murderer. Unsubtle, gratuitous, and taking the sweetest enjoyment from every nameless victim they cut down. Now contrast with Hitman, which is more like a psychotic serial killer. This may not seem to be different, but with the latter, the act of murder is often ritualized, formulaic, and against single individuals. And the serial killer may not enjoy themselves while doing it. They do it because they feel they have to by some compulsion beyond even their understanding. And when it gets done, the best the serial killer can hope for is to get away with the crime to kill again. Or maybe, to be over and done with it so they can return to their regular lives before the need to kill rises again.

Crimson_Dragoon:
Depends on how much you like hentai.

All kidding aside, I just don't see it. Yes, Penny Arcade has made jokes about rape before. But all that says is that they don't see the subject as some sort of imaginary line they shouldn't cross. Is it tasteless or unfunny? I guess that depends on who's viewing it. But making a joke about something and actually supporting that thing are not two and the same.

Besides, the guys at Penny Arcade usually take a "live and let live" attitude to everything. As in "if you like it, have at it; if you don't, pass it by."

Had it been something as innocuous as 'live and let live' I wouldn't have minded as much. But they keep saying these idiot things, so it seems more and more like 'let me live and shut up'. It's incredibly easy to just pass it by if it doesn't affect you at all. AND, and this is the most frustrating part, they angle it as a censorship issue, which is just so incredibly disingenuous. It's not like anyone is suggesting legislation!

Why can't it just be that 47 attacks the nuns because they open fire on him? Why must it be that he's attacking them because they're women?
Women are people too, just like if a man opens fire on you, you're completely entitled to kill him, the same goes for women. Equality goes both ways.
Enough of the femenazi victimization tactics please.

I have no problem with 47 killing women in this trailer. The problem I have with it is how it's not the Hitman I remember or want. It's not meticulous planning and executing. It's like splinter cell or any of these other pointless games I don't like.
I'm hoping they're just pandering to the ADHD generation. Because if the game is anything like this, I'm not buying it.

Buretsu:

Then, to cement this shock, they commit an act of violence. We don't know why they're doing it, but we can tell that they're no stranger to these sorts of acts. These are not innocent nuns with a secret leather fetish. These are trained and most likely hired killers. Their outfits are as much a weapon as the guns and rocket launchers they carry. Impractical, sure, but well-served for distraction, a distraction that would cost their victim their lives. Because these women aren't soldiers. They're not fighting on the front lines dressed like this, they're assassins.

NO NO NO
Wow, seriously? no trained female in her right mind will go to fight in uncomfortable clothing AND 15cm heels. As a woman i love martial arts, im going on my way to get my black belt in korean sword (haidong gumdo) and the first thing the sabonim asks everybody : (male and female) is to be bare feet. Hell even running sneakers are a bit uncomfortable to fight. Same goes for Taekwondo

I mean, i love 15cm heels, but heck they take a lot to control, i have twisted my ankle several times in lil street cracks. And you cant be stranding more than 1hr, because u can barely walk! let alone fight!

Those holy-hookers cant even be taken seriously...the second they show lingerie and heels. Its not to express the situation of holy-sin and 47 absolution (death) but simple and plain boy-fanservice.

its not even a distraction for men, if the skimpy outfit in an open fight takes you full 5 seconds more to make a move!
Skimpy outfit and assassination in a bedroom? excellent choice!
Skimpy outfit and open combat? Retardness.

I really dont care about the killing. Its fine.
But damn, if male gamers whine that girl (dumb) gamers say "im a girl and i play" you should give every girl a goddamn medal no matter if she is an att seeker or not; to simply have to make conscious efforts to ignore all the goddamn boy-fanservice. And try to have a good gaming
exp.

Edited some parts: after re reading ur post.

kinapuffar:
Why can't it just be that 47 attacks the nuns because they open fire on him? Why must it be that he's attacking them because they're women?
Women are people too, just like if a man opens fire on you, you're completely entitled to kill him, the same goes for women. Equality goes both ways.
Enough of the femenazi victimization tactics please.

I have no problem with 47 killing women in this trailer. The problem I have with it is how it's not the Hitman I remember or want. It's not meticulous planning and executing. It's like splinter cell or any of these other pointless games I don't like.
I'm hoping they're just pandering to the ADHD generation. Because if the game is anything like this, I'm not buying it.

Again, the problem is the women are SEXUALISED. Show me a sequences where agent 47 brutalises and kills guys wearing posing pouches and thongs, with oiled muscles and chiseled, handsome features.

i will just quote what i said in thread of the trailer

Reincarnatedwolfgod:
why were they wearing those fetish outfits and dressed as nuns?
they gave no context for this
i see why there is a controversy. it's because they gave no context and people made up there own. i am not even sure it is possible to give a logical context to it

over all i don't see any controversy but this trailer left me confused me and thinking the creator of the trailer are just stupid or it was made for shock value

Violence porn is already a thing. Sexualising and fetishising violence is already a thing. As Grey said, the trailer is dumb. It's more a symptom of the overall media rather than any actual advancement or endorsement of any sort. They basically went for boobies and violence because boobies and violence sell.

I don't think there's anything more sinister at work than "tits and violence sell, so let's have tits WITH violence!"

But hey, if Bayonetta can be considered feminist empowerment, I suppose someone could argue this, too.

Farther than stars:

Susan Arendt:
My biggest issue with the trailer is the damn clothes. Not because they're sexualize, per se, but because they make no goddamn sense.

I completely agree. In fact, I just made the exact same point about the shoes on the forum linked to the trailer. I mean, I'm OK with the fact that it's sacrilegious because, you know, they're the bad guys and what do they care? But I'm pretty sure that they do care about the effectiveness of their assassinations.
By the way, I do have one question and I wouldn't know this, because I'm not a woman; I get why high heels wouldn't work, but how exactly would fishnet stockings impede your fighting ability?

For starters, they can get caught on things - your enemy could use them as a handhold. You're literally wearing nets, plenty of grab spots. Plus, there is simply no reason to wear them. There is no benefit. Eh don't provide warmth, or make you more slippery, or anything practical.

This is an AWESOME piece of exploitative action, something that the B-movie industry has been doing for ages (and has gotten very good at if I may add). All this holier than thou (see what I did there?) bullshit about 'sexualizing women' really... I'd like to hear the men complain about sexualized men stereotypes. I am just as incapable of living up to the hero warrior stereotype with a chest the size of a closet as most women are to living up to the thin/huge boobs ideal.

I for one do not want men looking like myself in a videogame with a lot of swords, guns or other implements more hazardous than a hairbrush, it wouldn't work! I for one would die in the first wave of the first zombie attack (lack of cardio man)

And it doesn't matter, really, because it's entertainment and make belief and almost everyone knows that.

And... be honest with yourself THAT was the problem? seriously, not the killing? Or was it maybe the nun costumes that really did it for you if you were so appalled? Are you maybe, just maybe, feeling the tinge of religious guilt about actually thinking it's kind of awesome before you realize that you shouldn't? God knows what you think! better stop thinking it! ;)

I approve of this comic though, it is fine to point out that it is exploitative and silly because it is, and if you don't like such things then don't watch them. The art film industry didn't die because of exploitation flicks and the game industry won't die due to some exploitative games (I think we actually have too few of the balls to the wall crazy exploitative shit like this, I for one enjoy it)

It's all about a healthy mix of different types of games, I got quite moved playing journey something that his game probably won't do and that is fine, it doesn't try to. Maybe it can teach us a little about ourselves?

TMM:
This is an AWESOME piece of exploitative action, something that the B-movie industry has been doing for ages (and has gotten very good at if I may add). All this holier than thou (see what I did there?) bullshit about 'sexualizing women' really... I'd like to hear the men complain about sexualized men stereotypes. I am just as incapable of living up to the hero warrior stereotype with a chest the size of a closet as most women are to living up to the thin/huge boobs ideal.

do you really need the concepts of a 'male power fantasy' and a 'male sexual fantasy' explained to you again, and why your argumaet really holds no water?

Windknight:

TMM:
This is an AWESOME piece of exploitative action, something that the B-movie industry has been doing for ages (and has gotten very good at if I may add). All this holier than thou (see what I did there?) bullshit about 'sexualizing women' really... I'd like to hear the men complain about sexualized men stereotypes. I am just as incapable of living up to the hero warrior stereotype with a chest the size of a closet as most women are to living up to the thin/huge boobs ideal.

do you really need the concepts of a 'male power fantasy' and a 'male sexual fantasy' explained to you again, and why your argumaet really holds no water?

'fantasy' being the operative word here. That was kind of my point. It's a fantasy, I don't really know what a woman fantasy looks like on account of not being woman and I wouldn't dare speculate. But the notion that men are somehow less capable of separating fiction from fact than women are is somewhat insulting to me.

Surely the white knight of the dollar novels in the supermarket lead to unreasonable expectations from women on men?

TMM:

Windknight:

TMM:
This is an AWESOME piece of exploitative action, something that the B-movie industry has been doing for ages (and has gotten very good at if I may add). All this holier than thou (see what I did there?) bullshit about 'sexualizing women' really... I'd like to hear the men complain about sexualized men stereotypes. I am just as incapable of living up to the hero warrior stereotype with a chest the size of a closet as most women are to living up to the thin/huge boobs ideal.

do you really need the concepts of a 'male power fantasy' and a 'male sexual fantasy' explained to you again, and why your argumaet really holds no water?

'fantasy' being the operative word here. That was kind of my point. It's a fantasy, I don't really know what a woman fantasy looks like on account of not being woman and I wouldn't dare speculate. But the notion that men are somehow less capable of separating fiction from fact than women are is somewhat insulting to me.

Surely the white knight of the dollar novels in the supermarket lead to unreasonable expectations from women on men?

The point is, the 'buff guys' are meant to empower the players/reader. you are the beefy powerful killing dude. You are awesome guy. Its ego buffing.

The sexy chicks are for you too. They're for you to ogle, to have their ass and boobs stared at by you. They are not in any way female empowerment. this is why your argument comparing the two is fallacious and doesn't hold water.

TMM:

Windknight:

TMM:
This is an AWESOME piece of exploitative action, something that the B-movie industry has been doing for ages (and has gotten very good at if I may add). All this holier than thou (see what I did there?) bullshit about 'sexualizing women' really... I'd like to hear the men complain about sexualized men stereotypes. I am just as incapable of living up to the hero warrior stereotype with a chest the size of a closet as most women are to living up to the thin/huge boobs ideal.

do you really need the concepts of a 'male power fantasy' and a 'male sexual fantasy' explained to you again, and why your argumaet really holds no water?

'fantasy' being the operative word here. That was kind of my point. It's a fantasy, I don't really know what a woman fantasy looks like on account of not being woman and I wouldn't dare speculate. But the notion that men are somehow less capable of separating fiction from fact than women are is somewhat insulting to me.

Surely the white knight of the dollar novels in the supermarket lead to unreasonable expectations from women on men?

If the popularity of "50 Shades of Grey" tells me anything, it's that fantasy for women involve being a naive college girl and becoming the submissive partner in a BDSM relationship with a rich, older man...

Windknight:

The point is, the 'buff guys' are meant to empower the players/reader. you are the beefy powerful killing dude. You are awesome guy. Its ego buffing.

The sexy chicks are for you too. They're for you to ogle, to have their ass and boobs stared at by you. They are not in any way female empowerment. this is why your argument comparing the two is fallacious and doesn't hold water.

You are entirely correct, this trailer does not 'empower women' I do not believe it tries to either, what I believe it's trying to do is entertain a certain demographic and if I'm any indication they have succeeded. I thought it was awesome and I watched it again. If enjoying that makes me somehow a bad person in your eyes, then so be it.

I also like how you seem to suggest that being presented with a buff guy who can kick ass, who is very different from the player is ego buffing, if anything you're constantly reminded how not-awesome you are in real life. I personally don't think that way since I, like almost all of the world, knows that gears of war is a game which is not real.

Buretsu:

If the popularity of "50 Shades of Grey" tells me anything, it's that fantasy for women involve being a naive college girl and becoming the submissive partner in a BDSM relationship with a rich, older man...

I had no idea, if that is truly the theme of the book and it is indeed very popular that would be a very interesting aspect of debates like this. :)

Secret world leader (shhh):
Are we going to see 47 strangling a baby in the next trailer to rile up the controversey machine?

I would buy a game advertising itself as that sooner than one with a trailer like this. At least they'd be straightforward about going for shock.

Windknight:
You turn a corner, and see a guy in full body armour. he;s obviously well trained, and is armed. in fact he's drawing a bead on you right now, you shoot him, and kill him.
You turn a corner, and see a woman in lacy underwear. She obviously a civilian and is unarmed. in fact her eyes are widening in fear as she's seeing an armed man advancing on her. You shoot her, and kill her.

Awfull decision that, hope it was game over. The obvious move in that case is to do her of course.

Windknight:
I actually watched a gameplay vid of the 'doorstop' situation alluded to in a previous critical miss. Ignoring the bits where you kill monsters, you essentially have a burly, powerful man pushing and dragging a weak, frightened, near naked woman (some censor blurs added by the video itself showing she's at least topless, so the male viewers can ogle her tits) before literally using her in a manner that kills her.

I also think it's really unfair to impose such expectations for working out like mad, doing steroids and ravaging everyone who happens to not be wearing clothes. It's really degrading men and putting pressure on them to conform to an unfair ideal image.

Buretsu:
f the popularity of "50 Shades of Grey" tells me anything, it's that fantasy for women involve being a naive college girl and becoming the submissive partner in a BDSM relationship with a rich, older man...

And in the meantime, half of the actual bdsm world is on fire with rage about the cheap plagiarised books because it's yet another "Oh, he was abused as a kid, obviously he's going to be into bdsm later in life".

'Our bald protagonist has murdered people in strip clubs, brothels and parties filled with gimps, the series has always been sexually charged.'

The difference being, of course, that those were in strip clubs, brothels, and parties thrown by Hugh Hefner gone wrong (although that's not to say Hugh Hefner clearly hasn't gone wrong somewhere), not outside a motel in the pissing rain for no reason.

I've said before that the Absolution trailer seems to have come from someone who's seen those sexualised elements in Blood Money and missed the point. They're in there to be vulgar and twisted, to reflect 47's take on the world as well as to make playing a (literally) natural-born killer more palatable.

Blood Money did it for reasons (genuinely intelligent ones) other than trying to provide a 13-year-old with a wet-dream.

Anyway, good work on the strip - made me snort.

Matthew94:
So it's misogynistic to kill women but mowing down legions of men in every game is ok? Fuck that person from IGN.

Wait someone actually said that?

That sounds like something from one of those people who flip their shit at GTA for being a hooker killing simulation or whatever.

Be right back, checking to see if I stumbled into the 00's by mistake.

Yeah the whole thing with the nuns is kind of stupid, but holy crap look at 47! Those are some of the best graphics I've seen sine ... ever.

I'd just like to share a woman's perspective (my girlfriends) Got permission to post this, of course :)

(01:10:37 AM) ok, I'm a little turned on by the nuns.
(01:10:42 AM) I mean a lot turned on.

<discussion about this discussion>

(02:01:33 AM) now, mind you, the fact that they're not just women but women dressed up as sexy s&m nuns does sort of make it slightly exploitative, but why the fuck not. I just watched Thor, and that was two straight hours of me objectifying men.
(02:01:44 AM) because damn, yum

(02:04:01 AM) I still think "BEEFCAKE OMG!" every time I see the guy who played thor.
(02:04:27 AM) but yeah, there were copious amounts of drool and me objectifying men during that movie.
(02:04:40 AM) I'd watch the avengers even if it was crap, just for the eyecandy.
(02:05:42 AM) so yeah, it's not like it doesn't go both ways. it's just that when it's done to please men it carries all sorts of uncomfortable historical nastyness with it, so we're sensitive.

Matthew94:
So it's misogynistic to kill women but mowing down legions of men in every game is ok? Fuck that person from IGN.

It's quite apparent that's not what's being said, even from the one paragraph quote Grey picked out - which you can't have missed if you were responding to there being an IGN article.

Wait. Is IGN saying that hitting women in any circumstance is wrong or that violence with no meaning behind it is wrong? Either way, the guy must of hated Mortal Kombat.

Imp Emissary:
While it isn't "the worst thing to happen to women" in a game, I do think it does bring up a bit of an issue in games. Namely the whole; if we're going to have them kill women we might as well let them see their underwear first.

That's not completely bad on its own, but I doubt the guys 47 is going to kill are going to strip before they die.

Possibly not, but they're certainly going to strip afterwards if this is anything like any other Hitman game.

I don't know, the dude's killed enough people, male and female, that weren't in practical combat gear before now that I just can't see the outfits themselves as the issue they would be in the context of another game.

*sigh*
*swig*
squaring "profits" would actually decrease the actual profits. If you change the equation so (cheesecake+murder)=profits, the profits would be much greater than the cheesecake and murder put into the equation, which is what I think you meant.

Unless you didn't mean that, in which case that is A LOT of cake and killing, especially for a game this size.

OtherSideofSky:

Imp Emissary:
While it isn't "the worst thing to happen to women" in a game, I do think it does bring up a bit of an issue in games. Namely the whole; if we're going to have them kill women we might as well let them see their underwear first.

That's not completely bad on its own, but I doubt the guys 47 is going to kill are going to strip before they die.

Possibly not, but they're certainly going to strip afterwards if this is anything like any other Hitman game.

I don't know, the dude's killed enough people, male and female, that weren't in practical combat gear before now that I just can't see the outfits themselves as the issue they would be in the context of another game.

That may be why I don't "get it". I haven't had the pleasure to play the Hitman games myself, so I am probably more "sensitive" to the wired stuff, but can even a veteran Hitman player explain the reasons for all that?

What I mean is; 1.The ladies are assassins, why draw attention to yourself especially when your target knows (or at least believes) you're coming after him? I don't just mean the "sexy" outfits either. I mean, when was the last time you saw even just 4 young nuns all in habits?

2.From what I can tell their plan was to just blow him up before they were even seen by him, so who was the show for? What would they have done if he did die, or just ran off insted of killing them? They would just look silly.

All that said, Hitman isn't the most serious game, and yes I know this is all just for good (albeit not very clean) fun.

Captcha: baked in a pie

....Plan C?

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