Jimquisition: The Positive Side to Punching Nuns

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The Positive Side to Punching Nuns

Hitman: Absolution released a new trailer in which bawdily dressed assassin nuns are punched and headbutted in the face. Naturally, some viewers were offended to the point where it's still a big deal right now.

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The Cranky Kong images fit perfectly. It is nice that people will actually start wanting something different from ads other than T&A and those stupid ass Ads like "Your mom will hate Dead Space 2!"

Hopefully they'll actually put some sense of thought into things now.

ok I totally get the crux of the video, that's not my point, but I honestly don't see the problem with the Hitman trailer?

Is it me?

Jim's half-assed is still more assed than mine!
I don't mind scantily clad women in games, but you don't buy a Hitman game to play Street Fighter/Mortal Kombat with guns.

lead sharp:
ok I totally get the crux of the video, that's not my point, but I honestly don't see the problem with the Hitman trailer?

Is it me?

Ever played a Hitman game?

lead sharp:
ok I totally get the crux of the video, that's not my point, but I honestly don't see the problem with the Hitman trailer?

Is it me?

I also don't see the problem, I rather enjoyed it actually.

If those woman didn't want to get hit they shouldn't be murderous assassins. no one seems to care they were about to kill somebody right?

Certain debates, like this one are founded in an antiquated double-standard. Violence against women regardless of context automatically means it's wrong. If this "outrage" is allowed to go unchallenged, then we're going to see an even more focused grouped, politically correct, and watered down corporate gaming experience than we have already. Jim's right this wasn't talked about years ago, because years ago, gamers knew that a woman in fighting game was just as deadly as a man in a fighting game, and just as shirtless.

Young gamers today seem to be much more conservative, over-sensitive, and dare I say "wimpy" compared to the days when we had to defend games like Doom from the soccer moms and politicians who were talking like gamers are now!

As for "objecitfication" do I really need to bring up the Twlight double-standards again where young teenage boys were sexualized and minimally dressed to tingle the vaginas of a female audience? If there was a story targeted at teens about a high schooler being fought over by sexy supernatural women for his affections, the fans would be considered immature, boyish, and accussed of objectifying women for their pathetic fantasies there as well.

People just love to be outraged and having others hear just how outraged they are

Color me ambivalent.

I get it that there have been and will be video game controversies that really warrant the "community"'s attention.

I also don't really think this is one of them. Yes, women in video games are often portrayed in ways that could be described as over-sexualized. Complaining that these same women are subject to violence, free of all context, just strikes me as silly. The women in this particular video are clearly a lethal, dangerous threat, and to what extent their sexual attractiveness isn't part of what makes them dangerous, it's so over-the-top as to be difficult to take seriously. I mean, c'mon, nuns?

I've said before that I'm extremely leery of anyone suggesting that their personal outrage gives them the right to censor things for everyone. But I also understand that while it's tempting to claim sole ownership of the right to deem things worthy of condemnation or conversation, it really doesn't work that way. And I know my personal barometer of taste isn't an effective gauge of whether others genuinely feel threatened or lessened by a particular kind of imagery.

From where I stand, I'd much prefer that if we had to have this conversation, it was about being sold sex and violence as a package the creators deemed certain to get us rats hitting the food pellet button than the idea that you're not supposed to hit girls.

Your Mileage, as ever, May Vary.

Movies and comic book have always overly sexualized women, I don't see what makes Video Games so different, I mean no one screamed at the makers of the Sucker Punch movie for sexualizing their women. Ana they were REAL women and not ones made by ones and zeroes.

People are going bananas over this? You should see Lady Gaga's Nun outfit.

The nuns are hot and the violence is sexy.

I approve of the trailer.

image

I care that they are dressed up as nuns, mostly because it offends me and what I believe in. Never saw the video before this, but I was appalled and sickened by it, personally.

Just my two-cents.

Xan Krieger:

lead sharp:
ok I totally get the crux of the video, that's not my point, but I honestly don't see the problem with the Hitman trailer?

Is it me?

I also don't see the problem, I rather enjoyed it actually.

Bear in mind I'm on the fence with it but the problem a lot o people have is

Those ladies are wearing grossly impratical outfits, the type of clothes you would wear in a bedroom. They are then being whupped, and the way it is shot is almost lovingly. It feels to some people that it is meant to be violent erotica, women get physically dominated by the player surrogate.

Great video Jim. Diversity will make things more interestin and compelling.

Personally I don't understand why the controversy has arisen over this specific video, because there are worse. Much worse.
In fact a lot of the controversy doesn't seem entirely sincere to me.

Concerning what Jim is glad about in this video, I agree. More dialogue is good. I just find it strange that it's precisely this video that made it happen so much. Mind... it has to be one.
I'm surprised it's taken this long to be honest and I don't actually agree that it has. People have had issues in the past. It's just that now with the advent with Twitter and Facebook. More people get to speak out.

Also it does sort of make sense. They use the nun disguise to get close to the target and then take it off because it'd be in the way.

It's strange that at the start of the video Jim acknowledges that they are in disguise, yet to sort of hammer his point home towards the end he uses what most tabloid press has been using "sexy nun-punching trailer". Seems a bit cheap to me.
They aren't nuns. We can all see that. They are assassins in disguise.

I do actually have a "problem" with the trailer, but it's nothing to do with ambiguous morals and double standards.
My problem with it is that it seems very grind house-esque, when the other trailers we've seen up till now and the Hitman world in general, seem based a lot more in modern reality. It just doesn't seem to fit that well.

lead sharp:
ok I totally get the crux of the video, that's not my point, but I honestly don't see the problem with the Hitman trailer?

Is it me?

I think it might be two things: One is the people being assaulted is women, and the hypersexualization of women. Minority figures of any gender or orientation tend to get more defensive about their ethnic, gender, or racial differences because they may have been grown up like that; such as a homosexual person might be hesitant to "come out of the closet" due to the cultural view at their school that homosexuality is wrong. Sure the women here come out with heavy artillery--but they are still women being beaten to death by a scary, white bald man.

Honestly the first part of them being women doesn't bother me, but I can see that the over-sexualized women in this trailer is 4th wall breaking. It does seem weird that they would suddenly disrobe to sexy latex/nun-parody outfits before they even get to their target, and line up in a position so the audience could get a good view of every women's snug butt. I'll accept that they are assassins that can somehow hide an RPG in their clothes, but there seems to be some valid points that this is just objectifying women as sexual entertainment.

i just hope they will learn something from it.
someone mentioned dead space 2, i think its a valid comparison,
some ads HURT YOUR GAME SALES. some ads INSULT a part of your client base.
i for one do get a bit insulted when i realize that a game is trying to sell itself though nudity. especially seeing as im more or less "prime target" for such ads (being 19 year old male)

there is always this "this kind of ads are insulting and objectifying towards women." debate.
you know what? they are insulting and objectifying to men as well....
they are insulting toward EVERYONE.
the idea that someone, somewhere thought "well, those idiots will buy everything with tits on it" IS kinda insulting.

thing is, it wont change. because there always will be people which will prove that statement to be true. you just have to ignore it and move on.

i do so for quite some time, i think im happier for it.

I think the killer nuns thing is awesome, personally it's a character I enjoy playing in certain RPG's I've been involved with =3. I'm not shaking my head in disgust at this trailer for it's costumes though, I shake my head because it's all so silly! The skimpy latex costumes are so desperately out of place. I totally see the appeal of such wear in the bedroom though Oo.

If these nuns threw off their robes to reveal bullet-proof vests and what goes along with that, this trailer would be totally badass. I would be sitting here thinking "fuck yeah, sign me up for THAT sisterhood!", but somehow I feel let down insead =P.

lead sharp:
ok I totally get the crux of the video, that's not my point, but I honestly don't see the problem with the Hitman trailer?

Is it me?

Well, it's just that it doesn't fit with Hitman at all. Yes, Hitman has never been completely serious. I mean you can disguise as a clown and kill people. Put ether on panties to KO a guard, shit like that.

But this trailer was just some generic action sequence. And that's not what Hitman is about. Hitman is about the coldly calculated kill and trying to leave the scene completely unnoticed. It's not about explosions and epic gun battles and martial arts moves, not at all. That's why I dislike this trailer.

As for hitting assassin nuns. *shrug* If I can hit assassin males, I can hit assassin females. Yeah it's quite juvenile to dress them like that, but at least they're females who kick ass. Agent 47 doesn't have it easy with them.

Killer Nuns = Approved. The Hitman games dwelt into religion in the past with some great church levels, but what I bloody hate here is how unpractical they were.
I hope that this trailer was simply eye candy and that the real enemies wouldn't wear that type of clothes, unless they were trying to bed 47. The trailer was fantastic eye candy.

I think context is important here. This trailer probably isn't being savaged just because it has sexy nuns, or because it shows violence against women. Maybe by a tiny minority, but everything is hated by someone. It's because everything in this trailer goes against the serious and dramatic tone of the Hitman franchise.

If this were a trailer for a Saints Row game, and played up for camp, I'll bet most viewers would have loved it. But in a serious franchise known for its realism and emphasis on stealth and infiltration, we have an all-female mercenary squad of supermodels, wearing a combination of Victoria's Secret and Sexy Nun Halloween costumes, in high heels and makeup, and posing as if on a runway with assault weaponry. Then 47 dives into the middle of them and shoots them all, a move that would probably get him killed in previous Hitman games.

It would be like advertising the next Super Mario game as a bloody and violent first-person shooter--unless it's clearly a parody, you're going to piss off a whole lot of people.

Shameless:
Movies and comic book have always overly sexualized women, I don't see what makes Video Games so different, I mean no one screamed at the makers of the Sucker Punch movie for sexualizing their women. Ana they were REAL women and not ones made by ones and zeroes.

You aren't paying attention then.

370999:

Bear in mind I'm on the fence with it but the problem a lot o people have is

Those ladies are wearing grossly impratical outfits, the type of clothes you would wear in a bedroom. They are then being whupped, and the way it is shot is almost lovingly. It feels to some people that it is meant to be violent erotica, women get physically dominated by the player surrogate.

Great video Jim. Diversity will make things more interestin and compelling.

So, people are angry at this trailer because it's violent erotica.

Just another example of the prudishness gamers feel they need to adopt so as to gain more mainstream acceptance.

Vampire cat:
If these nuns threw off their robes to reveal bullet-proof vests and what goes along with that, this trailer would be totally badass. I would be sitting here thinking "fuck yeah, sign me up for THAT sisterhood!", but somehow I feel let down insead =P.

I agree totally. The basic idea of mercs who disguise themselves as nuns is fine, but the sheer impracticality of their outfits is ridiculous.

Vampire cat:
I think the killer nuns thing is awesome, personally it's a character I enjoy playing in certain RPG's I've been involved with =3. I'm not shaking my head in disgust at this trailer for it's costumes though, I shake my head because it's all so silly! The skimpy latex costumes are so desperately out of place. I totally see the appeal of such wear in the bedroom though Oo.

If these nuns threw off their robes to reveal bullet-proof vests and what goes along with that, this trailer would be totally badass. I would be sitting here thinking "fuck yeah, sign me up for THAT sisterhood!", but somehow I feel let down insead =P.

Your comment is hot on so many levels. Just letting you know.

Ego boost +1 to you.

Falseprophet:

If this were a trailer for a Saints Row game, and played up for camp, I'll bet most viewers would have loved it.

A sexy nun gang would have been way cooler than the Luchadores.

370999:

Xan Krieger:

lead sharp:
ok I totally get the crux of the video, that's not my point, but I honestly don't see the problem with the Hitman trailer?

Is it me?

I also don't see the problem, I rather enjoyed it actually.

Bear in mind I'm on the fence with it but the problem a lot o people have is

Those ladies are wearing grossly impratical outfits, the type of clothes you would wear in a bedroom. They are then being whupped, and the way it is shot is almost lovingly. It feels to some people that it is meant to be violent erotica, women get physically dominated by the player surrogate.

I hate this argument. No one complains when it's men being beaten violently, but when it's women. Well that's just too far. As for the inappropriate dress thing, the Hitman series has always been about cheese and camp. This looks more like a nod to Kill Bill than anything else.

People just make mountains out of nothing.

Also they didn't get whupped. They actually handled 47 winning quite realistically, he got whacked himself a good few times. He beat them, but that's kind of the point. He is the games protagonist.

Iron Lightning:

370999:

Bear in mind I'm on the fence with it but the problem a lot o people have is

Those ladies are wearing grossly impratical outfits, the type of clothes you would wear in a bedroom. They are then being whupped, and the way it is shot is almost lovingly. It feels to some people that it is meant to be violent erotica, women get physically dominated by the player surrogate.

Great video Jim. Diversity will make things more interestin and compelling.

So, people are angry at this trailer because it's violent erotica.

Just another example of the prudishness gamers feel they need to adopt so as to gain more mainstream acceptance.

I dunno, if I was a girl I might feel this is another thing that is excluding me from something I enjoy.

I'm not saying either you or they are wrong or right but I don't think it's just hollow prudishness that motivates opposition to it.

Abandon4093:

370999:

Xan Krieger:
I also don't see the problem, I rather enjoyed it actually.

Bear in mind I'm on the fence with it but the problem a lot o people have is

Those ladies are wearing grossly impratical outfits, the type of clothes you would wear in a bedroom. They are then being whupped, and the way it is shot is almost lovingly. It feels to some people that it is meant to be violent erotica, women get physically dominated by the player surrogate.

I hate this argument. No one complains when it's men being beaten violently, but when it's women. Well that's just too far. As for the inappropriate dress thing, the Hitman series has always been about cheese and camp. This looks more like a nod to Kill Bill than anything else.

People just make mountains out of nothing.

Also they didn't get whupped. They actually handled 47 winning quite realistically, he got whacked himself a good few times. He beat them, but that's kind of the point. He is the games protagonist.

I've never played Hitman and this isn't a position I fully support

Part of the problem is the manner of dress. Saying it's like men being beaten misses the point. It would be like men who were designed to be appealing to women as much as possible bein beaten or it to be equivalent.

However there is quite possible that there is another dimension to this which thinks it's fine to see men being beaten but is uncomfortable to see women being hurt.

And that is the last I will say on this, I don't want to have to be forced to argue for something I don't support.

*Saw a facbeook comment about violence against women being bad, then facepalmed*

It looked silly, but looks like fun.
Too bad for Hitman fans who find it too out of place though.

Spend entire series brutally murdering people. - No problem.
Dress up the targets as leather S&M nuns. - Moral outrage.

Failure in priorities. This is a SEXUAL outrage and no one is even getting laid. That's just pathetic.

Abandon4093:

370999:

Xan Krieger:
I also don't see the problem, I rather enjoyed it actually.

Bear in mind I'm on the fence with it but the problem a lot o people have is

Those ladies are wearing grossly impratical outfits, the type of clothes you would wear in a bedroom. They are then being whupped, and the way it is shot is almost lovingly. It feels to some people that it is meant to be violent erotica, women get physically dominated by the player surrogate.

I hate this argument. No one complains when it's men being beaten violently, but when it's women. Well that's just too far. As for the inappropriate dress thing, the Hitman series has always been about cheese and camp. This looks more like a nod to Kill Bill than anything else.

People just make mountains out of nothing.

Also they didn't get whupped. They actually handled 47 winning quite realistically, he got whacked himself a good few times. He beat them, but that's kind of the point. He is the games protagonist.

I keep meaning to see Kill Bill but never get around to it... If it's anything like the trailer, I guess I need to get a move on and watch it!

370999:

Iron Lightning:

370999:

Bear in mind I'm on the fence with it but the problem a lot o people have is

Those ladies are wearing grossly impratical outfits, the type of clothes you would wear in a bedroom. They are then being whupped, and the way it is shot is almost lovingly. It feels to some people that it is meant to be violent erotica, women get physically dominated by the player surrogate.

Great video Jim. Diversity will make things more interestin and compelling.

So, people are angry at this trailer because it's violent erotica.

Just another example of the prudishness gamers feel they need to adopt so as to gain more mainstream acceptance.

I dunno, if I was a girl I might feel this is another thing that is excluding me from something I enjoy.

I'm not saying either you or they are wrong or right but I don't think it's just hollow prudishness that motivates opposition to it.

I consider myself somewhat female and the trailer is fucking awesome, lol. It'd be just as awesome if it was a lone girl against a group of men in sexy outfits.

For whatever my opinion is worth.

This is a contradiction.
People want that all are equal,
if all are equal then it doesn't matter.
Why can men be killed in the thousand but when women die its wrong?

The people who are going apeshit over this trailer go crazy cause
women are killed? They should get anfry bacause "anyone" not just woman die.

They should hate all violance, not this.
Actually what they do is racism in another way.

Just think of the movie "300".
How those warriors get killed. And how graphic they showed this.
Where is the difference?

This reminds of the southpark episode with the flag.
The children don't get the problem cause they do not know
what racism means.

Shameless:
Movies and comic book have always overly sexualized women, I don't see what makes Video Games so different, I mean no one screamed at the makers of the Sucker Punch movie for sexualizing their women. Ana they were REAL women and not ones made by ones and zeroes.

Actually, yes. Quite a few critics (and myself) thought that the oversexualisation of Sucker Punchs maincharacters was undermining the point the movie was trying to make.

I want to say another thing here.

Well, a couple, really.

1. People have objected to this sort of thing for year. It's just that they were met with the ever reasonable gamer boilerplates of "shut the fuck up, faggot" or "it doesn't bother me, so fuck off."

2. I think one of the more telling issues is how people can look at this trailer and still not get why "girls" are put off from gaming. It's not really the sexy outfits or the violence against women, but a weird sort of gestalt. This kind of sums of gaming attitudes towards the fairer sex in less than a couple of minutes. And that people will bend over backwards in an effort to defend the trailer is indicative that people don't seem to get it at all.

At the same time people strive to find a place among more respected media as "art," our collective reaction to complaints by the larger community is still a rather juvenile "STFU faggot." The response that the trailer has garnered defending it isn't much different, if at all, from the recent argument that sexual harassment is part of the fighting game culture (so what that guy did was totally okay), applied to a broader market.

Zachary Amaranth:

Falseprophet:

If this were a trailer for a Saints Row game, and played up for camp, I'll bet most viewers would have loved it.

A sexy nun gang would have been way cooler than the Luchadores.

Aw, what. I totally wish that was in SRTT now! You've ruined the game for me </3

Grey Day for Elcia:

I consider myself somewhat female and the trailer is fucking awesome, lol. It'd be just as awesome if it was a lone girl against a group of men in sexy outfits.

For whatever my opinion is worth.

I'm not suggesting all girls are going to be against it automatically or that it's wrong to find it cool. I really like 300 and a lot of people view that as a modern fascist film.

Just that I don't think opposition to it should be brushed off. As Jim said at the very least it can help make people more aware to other people's feelings.

Good video, Jim! It is nice to know that there's a bright side to all this controversy. It's nice to know that even though the debates can be furious and full of disagreements, some good can come of them. That improved my day. Thanks.

Concerning the "violence against women" side of this debate; how long have women been present in the (American) army now? I can't for the life of me remember if I've ever seen a women portrayed as a regular (not important for the plot) soldier in either MW2, BF3 (only modern titles of CoD and BF I've played) or any other FPS. If you argue against violence towards women in war, stealth, whatever games, you should re-evaluate your standpoint, and simply argue against violence in general. Seeing as how that's never going to happen, how about giving both sexes (and all the genders) a fair trial?

Disclaimer:...you know what? I'm pretty sure everyone's mature enough not to assume I'm pro domestic violence.

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