Jimquisition: The Positive Side to Punching Nuns

 Pages PREV 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 NEXT
 

SonOfVoorhees:
There is sexism, but its not in that trailer. One man fights a group of highly trained, heavily armed and very capable hit woman. Yeah they are dressing in a certain way but no different to woman in music videos, or even female singers. Men always see woman as the fairer sex, not as strong and need protecting when this is not the case. This is something we men are told since birth, you cant hit girls etc etc Yes there may be issues with clothing, especially with beat em ups, but i think people take issue with a man beating woman than the fact that these woman are sexualised killing machines out looking for the Hitman in the first place.

Well, the issue is the combination of sex and violence. (I don't think it's much of an issue, it's what other people are saying.)

But anyhow. If he had been beating up men while protecting a woman, people would have complained about sexism. It doesn't matter what a game does nowadays - someone WILL find something "sexist" about it and flip their shit.

Personally, I don't really care, I just hope game developers aren't impressed by this bullshit.

That is a pretty bad trailer, I mean its just stupid, I thought hitman was a series more about planning and execution, not bad action and silly outfits.

ex275w:

Phasmal:

Robert Ewing:
Oh please, men are as overly sexualized as women.

I'm not interested into going into a massive back-and-forth, so I'll just agree to disagree with you on that point.

I also have to disagree, women like different types of men, saying they like only cute bishies ignores that Fabio or Thor are (or were) popular with women (in part) due to their muscular physique. Other women find nerdy guys like Stephen Merchant to be very attractive.

I think you misunderstand. I'm not saying some women can't find such types attractive (I for one, have a huge thing for nerds), I'm saying the macho types in games and such were not designed for their sexual appeal to the opposite gender. They are designed with dudes in mind.

Nurb:
If those woman didn't want to get hit they shouldn't be murderous assassins. no one seems to care they were about to kill somebody right?

Certain debates, like this one are founded in an antiquated double-standard. Violence against women regardless of context automatically means it's wrong. If this "outrage" is allowed to go unchallenged, then we're going to see an even more focused grouped, politically correct, and watered down corporate gaming experience than we have already. Jim's right this wasn't talked about years ago, because years ago, gamers knew that a woman in fighting game was just as deadly as a man in a fighting game, and just as shirtless.

Young gamers today seem to be much more conservative, over-sensitive, and dare I say "wimpy" compared to the days when we had to defend games like Doom from the soccer moms and politicians who were talking like gamers are now!

As for "objecitfication" do I really need to bring up the Twlight double-standards again where young teenage boys were sexualized and minimally dressed to tingle the vaginas of a female audience? If there was a story targeted at teens about a high schooler being fought over by sexy supernatural women for his affections, the fans would be considered immature, boyish, and accussed of objectifying women for their pathetic fantasies there as well.

People just love to be outraged and having others hear just how outraged they are

I like how no one bothered replying to this, Probably because they realized it destroyed any argument they would have had.

+100 to you, sir.

targren:

Wow. You must be new here. ;)

Assuming maturity from an internet forum -- a gaming forum, no less -- is like assuming honesty from a closed session of Congress.

No, I'm not really new here. Just trying to get a point across, and if there's rotten individuals that will nitpick everything, so be it. At least I'm trying to further the discussion. (This is not directed at you, targren, btw)

mercifulwrath:

I know there have been regular female soldiers in most of the Halo games and the extended universe.

I honestly haven't played the Halo series, but are those women just grunts? Like all the other male cannon fodder?

uncanny474:
Just throwing in my two cents on T&A in advertising.

I don't get why ANYTHING uses T&A in advertising anymore. We live in an age where high sexuality is a common, mostly-accepted thing. Honest-to-god pornography is EASILY obtainable. In fact, it's PERVASIVE. The Internet, as everyone knows, is mostly porn.

Titillation is pointless when we can get the real thing without any extra effort. If I wanted boobs, I'd go look up boobs. And the boobs I look up wouldn't even be covered. Hell, (at the risk of being yelled at for objectifying women) if I put in a bit of effort, I could get the real thing.

In an age where anyone who WANTS porn or sex can have it and anyone who DON'T is disgusted by it, when we are polarized to the point where those who would have wanted T&A are bored by it, and those who don't want it are willing to boycott games because of it, WHY WOULD ANYONE MARKET A GAME WITH T&A??

This. In the advent of the Internet, I have no clue why people still use sex appeal as an incentive in marketing. >.>

Phasmal:

ex275w:

Phasmal:

I'm not interested into going into a massive back-and-forth, so I'll just agree to disagree with you on that point.

I also have to disagree, women like different types of men, saying they like only cute bishies ignores that Fabio or Thor are (or were) popular with women (in part) due to their muscular physique. Other women find nerdy guys like Stephen Merchant to be very attractive.

I think you misunderstand. I'm not saying some women can't find such types attractive (I for one, have a huge thing for nerds), I'm saying the macho types in games and such were not designed for their sexual appeal to the opposite gender. They are designed with dudes in mind.

I would agree that Kratos, the Gears of War dudes, and Chris in Resident Evil 5 were made to fulfill male power fantasies. Yet I still think that most of the time characters designers just end up saying, "Oh we want a tough man in the crew", so they end up making characters liek Sten or Oghren who are most likely to appeal to the male gender.

I still find it funny that no one complains when a character is explicitly made for a female audience, (Thane, Aladdin and My little ponies) men like them more than women.

Still designing characters for one gender I think is dumb, I prefer characters like Dante (DMC) who appeal to power fantasies instead of exclusively female or male power fantasies.

THE FACT THAT THEY'RE WOMEN IS NOT THE POINT

The point is said women are supposedly assassins but instead of wearing practical clothing, wear fetish outfits that serve no purpose other than to titillate an imaginary male audience, who presumably gets a boner from seeing scantily-clad dis-empowered women show off their butts and then get brutally murdered. That is a bad thing.

There is no other reason for them to suddenly tear off their nun habits to reveal clothing like that. That's ludicrous.

If they were men wearing equally fetishistic clothing, then I would have a problem with that too.

Robert Ewing:
Oh please, men are as overly sexualized as women. But as men are infact men, they lack the apparatus that women have that make them seem over sexual. I.e Tits, ass, curvy body.

No. They are not. Being physically attractive by itself is not objectification. Having a women be physically attractive by itself is not objectification.

If there was equal objectification, more male video game characters would look like this:

and less like this:

As mentioned above, some of your examples are equally for the male self-insert fantasy as they are for the female eye candy fantasy. The "gets the girl" example? That is entirely for the pleasure of the male audience.

Roid raging, macho, overly aggressive, murderous, testosterone poisoned guys like Kratos and Marcus Fenix? Those are not attractive traits to have, sorry to say.

Things weirdly to note.
Firstly the actions in the trailer shouldn't be seen as sexist.
A group of women try to kill 47 who responds in kind this truly is equal rights the women are being treated just as though it were a group of men trying to kill him. The only issue is the sexualisation which if you look at it from the name they are called the saints.
Can someone else name an OTT game with characters called "the Saints". At a guess this was some clever dig / reference to Saints row.
Though the rather prominent illuminati esc pyramid with an eye tattoo does bring up some questions.

Something tells me it's mostly the stereotypical "femenist" that hates this trailer. Now, I'm as against abusing women as one can get, but what happened to that "equal rights" thing? Women have just as much right to form a group of highly-trained assassins with some sort of distinct gimic, get hired to take out the world's most feared assassin, and while putting up a good fight, ultimately get their asses handed to them as anyone else.

He fights them just like if they were men, they don't show any bouncing tits or exposed ass, and most of all, they're portrayed in a role most often taken by men. If anything, people should be overjoyed by that fact. If you want us all to be equal, you can at least deal with women losing a battle THEY started in a video game trailer, and respect their right to do so as much as yours or mine.

freaper:
Concerning the "violence against women" side of this debate; how long have women been present in the (American) army now? I can't for the life of me remember if I've ever seen a women portrayed as a regular (not important for the plot) soldier in either MW2, BF3 (only modern titles of CoD and BF I've played) or any other FPS. If you argue against violence towards women in war, stealth, whatever games, you should re-evaluate your standpoint, and simply argue against violence in general. Seeing as how that's never going to happen, how about giving both sexes (and all the genders) a fair trial?

Disclaimer:...you know what? I'm pretty sure everyone's mature enough not to assume I'm pro domestic violence.

Women are barred from serving in combat roles.

Taunta:
THE FACT THAT THEY'RE WOMEN IS NOT THE POINT

The point is said women are supposedly assassins but instead of wearing practical clothing, wear fetish outfits that serve no purpose other than to titillate an imaginary male audience, who presumably gets a boner from seeing scantily-clad dis-empowered women show off their butts and then get brutally murdered. That is a bad thing.

There is no other reason for them to suddenly tear off their nun habits to reveal clothing like that. That's ludicrous.

If they were men wearing equally fetishistic clothing, then I would have a problem with that too.

Robert Ewing:
Oh please, men are as overly sexualized as women. But as men are infact men, they lack the apparatus that women have that make them seem over sexual. I.e Tits, ass, curvy body.

No. They are not. Being physically attractive by itself is not objectification. Having a women be physically attractive by itself is not objectification.

If there was equal objectification, more male video game characters would look like this:

and less like this:

As mentioned above, some of your examples are equally for the male self-insert fantasy as they are for the female eye candy fantasy. The "gets the girl" example? That is entirely for the pleasure of the male audience.

Roid raging, macho, overly aggressive, murderous, testosterone poisoned guys like Kratos and Marcus Fenix? Those are not attractive traits to have, sorry to say.

If I was wearing a pretty unrevealing body-clinging leather suit, and had the choice to shed the impeding to movement garb for the flexible leather suit, or trip over the nun suit 50 times, when trying to take out a highly dangerous assassin, I'd pick the suit. Especially if I'm the one picking the fight.

ex275w:

Imperator_DK:
Well, considering that the next step from "controversy" is usually tiptoeing. or even outright censorship, I really don't think it'll add much to gaming overall.

If you dislike the Hitman trailer, simply don't watch it, and don't buy the product it advertises. But to demand that others who might like it are denied availability of it is the exact opposite of "tolerance". Funnily enough, "live and let live" includes actually letting other people watch/play stuff that offends you to no end.

Nobody is saying that the game should be banned or that the people who liked it are wife beater misogynists. You are making this argument up, enjoy the game and the trailer if you like it. People should speak about their displeasure for the trailer. I, for example, think its incredibly idiotic.

People are arguing that those who made the trailer and anyone who doesn't immediately decry it are "supporting a culture of rape."

Basically, you can either "White Knight" and be told to fuck off by a certain segment of the population, or you can say that "Art is Art, watch it or don't" and be told to fuck off by a certain segment of the population.

shogunblade:

Palademon:

Too bad for Hitman fans who find it too out of place though.

I don't get it, honestly. If Max Payne 3 looks like its set in the Streets of Rio De Janiero, away from its Noirish roots, why can't Hitman feel like an action movie for one game? They did make a movie that was technically the same thing, was it not?

OT: I think this whole conflict is interesting, but it feels to me, incredibly silly. I think women being hit in the face and whatnot is considerably different to women being abused. If Agent 47 was torturing one of these ladies akin to how Hugo Strange did in his Arkham City trailer, I'd be a little more uncomfortable and this argument would be decided for me a little better.

However, if these women can wield guns, knives and amazing fighting abilities, I don't see how they should be treated any differently towards being taken apart one by one by an assassin.

If the whole religious aspect (Nun outfits) bothers people, Take a good solid look at the films of the 1970s, where exploitation films did much worse with nuns and women seperately than this does. This is pretty tame (which is to say, extremely violent and nose-shatteringly brutal) compared to an entire decade of film.

Altogether, this is a conflict that is silly to be having only because I've seen worse to women in movies from decades before my time, and I can't see why a two minute trailer provokes this much vitriol from anybody.

I think people don't mind with Max Payne 3 because everyone knows it isn't even trying to pretend it's like the older ones.

And I don't see why abuse against women in a video game is a bad thing. What counts as abuse anyway? Sure, him beating up an innocent woman would be bad, but not because it's a woman, because it's an innocent person. Is it suddenly worse because the game industry's main demographic is male, and that most of its employees are too? Would we feel just as bad for 47 brutally interrogating some guy for some reason, as we would if they were a woman? Why is it suddenly worse and something to worry about? If Hugo strange abused a woman, so what? He's a villain, he does bad shit. We shouldn't feel bad if 47, someone who assassinates people, felt the need to do so to a woman.
The facepalm at the beginning of my post was gesturing to the stupid idea that violence is ok, but violence agaisnt women isn't. In video games, violence is a basic form of interaction and challenge that any person can innately understand. But some people were like "Oh shit! Won't someone think of the women?!", as if women need to be protected.

It is silly indeed.

Edit: I'm just going to state it here if it wasn't obvious in my first post that I don't mind any other criticism of the trailer, such as random unneeded sexuality. I thought that made it nicely silly, but other opinions are fine by me. I've only had problems with anyone saying it's bad because they're female.

ex275w:

Imperator_DK:
Well, considering that the next step from "controversy" is usually tiptoeing. or even outright censorship, I really don't think it'll add much to gaming overall.

If you dislike the Hitman trailer, simply don't watch it, and don't buy the product it advertises. But to demand that others who might like it are denied availability of it is the exact opposite of "tolerance". Funnily enough, "live and let live" includes actually letting other people watch/play stuff that offends you to no end.

Nobody is saying that the game should be banned or that the people who liked it are wife beater misogynists.

Not yet.

However, as has been the case with Rapelay or various games portraying gay relationships, I don't think that my notion that controversy can - and often will - quickly lead to calls for political action to be taken against them is unfounded. The US generally have a healthy respect for Freedom of Speech, but as such voices seem to grow ever stronger and more numerous, concern is in order.

You are making this argument up, enjoy the game and the trailer if you like it. People should speak about their displeasure for the trailer. I, for example, think its incredibly idiotic.

They certainly should, so long as they respect its right to be shown/broadcast. If we're all on that page, I don't really care what's said on it.

RvLeshrac:

ex275w:

Imperator_DK:
Well, considering that the next step from "controversy" is usually tiptoeing. or even outright censorship, I really don't think it'll add much to gaming overall.

If you dislike the Hitman trailer, simply don't watch it, and don't buy the product it advertises. But to demand that others who might like it are denied availability of it is the exact opposite of "tolerance". Funnily enough, "live and let live" includes actually letting other people watch/play stuff that offends you to no end.

Nobody is saying that the game should be banned or that the people who liked it are wife beater misogynists. You are making this argument up, enjoy the game and the trailer if you like it. People should speak about their displeasure for the trailer. I, for example, think its incredibly idiotic.

People are arguing that those who made the trailer and anyone who doesn't immediately decry it are "supporting a culture of rape."

Basically, you can either "White Knight" and be told to fuck off by a certain segment of the population, or you can say that "Art is Art, watch it or don't" and be told to fuck off by a certain segment of the population.

Didn't the "Rape culture" debate came up in this. At least here on The Escapist no one said, "If you like this you are a misogynistic pig." It doesn't make sense for the rape culture thing to be said, no one in the trailer got raped, blamed for getting raped, no one in the trailer said rape victims should get over it.

Agent 47 punching a woman in the trailer if you look it at most in a sexist manner it means men are better than women. It doesn't tell anyone about their opinions on rape.

It's just super low class. It's the Mom's hate Deadspace 2 all over again, it's not the subject matter that bothers me (though in this case it does more on that later) it's the lack of any thought involved. It's a terrible trailer, it's basically look at the pretty guns, look at the pretty fire, look at the pretty women and look at the pretty blood. I shows no gameplay (which makes for a bad trailer instantly) offers nothing to really make you interested but the "Hey look you to fight half clothed fetish nuns as cannon-fodder" thing. Naming it absolution and proceeding to show off hypersexualized nuns being brutally killed is super low, to the point of being crass.

But, on a personal level, I can't stand seeing women being brutalized without the brutalizer really struggling. Sure you can say there was a struggle but, the wounds delivered by the nuns were ineffectual whereas Hitman's wounds were all devastating, shown in slow motion. It showed this big strong man beating these scantily clad women to a pulp, sexualizing their every moment on screen INCLUDING their deaths. Bad girls dying can be done right, but sexualizing them that far and using them as glorified torture porn is not acceptable.

ex275w:

Phasmal:

ex275w:

I also have to disagree, women like different types of men, saying they like only cute bishies ignores that Fabio or Thor are (or were) popular with women (in part) due to their muscular physique. Other women find nerdy guys like Stephen Merchant to be very attractive.

I think you misunderstand. I'm not saying some women can't find such types attractive (I for one, have a huge thing for nerds), I'm saying the macho types in games and such were not designed for their sexual appeal to the opposite gender. They are designed with dudes in mind.

I would agree that Kratos, the Gears of War dudes, and Chris in Resident Evil 5 were made to fulfill male power fantasies. Yet I still think that most of the time characters designers just end up saying, "Oh we want a tough man in the crew", so they end up making characters liek Sten or Oghren who are most likely to appeal to the male gender.

I still find it funny that no one complains when a character is explicitly made for a female audience, (Thane, Aladdin and My little ponies) men like them more than women.

Still designing characters for one gender I think is dumb, I prefer characters like Dante (DMC) who appeal to power fantasies instead of exclusively female or male power fantasies.

Personally, I find the comic linked to be far more relevant to the Hitman-supporting side of the discussion. She's not drawn a "man," she's drawn a specific woman's ideal man.

Media displays idealised versions of Perfect People. Moreso for most game characters. Why? Because a game about average people fighting other average people for no particular reason is *actually* a "murder simulator." Instead, we have over-the-top enemies (PMC wearing skin-tight bodysuits underneath Nun disguises) and over-the-top protagonists (A bar-coded cloned super-assassin whose only moral and ethical centre is what the player gives him).

What's truly interesting, and germane to the discussion, is that the people who hold these opinions *DO* want to see images like this banned. They certainly don't (usually) come right out and say it, but that's the overtone - "I don't like this, and therefore no one should ever be allowed to create or display anything like this ever again."

That's exactly the same way the public was sold Prohibition, and the same way the public is sold Book-Banning. If you truly feel that this should be barred, then you have to side with people who want to see Harry Potter, Huckleberry Finn, Moby Dick, Romeo & Juliet, and countless other works banned. They have equally valid arguments, backed up by an equally non-existent body of evidence.

----------

Imperator_DK:

ex275w:

Imperator_DK:
Well, considering that the next step from "controversy" is usually tiptoeing. or even outright censorship, I really don't think it'll add much to gaming overall.

If you dislike the Hitman trailer, simply don't watch it, and don't buy the product it advertises. But to demand that others who might like it are denied availability of it is the exact opposite of "tolerance". Funnily enough, "live and let live" includes actually letting other people watch/play stuff that offends you to no end.

Nobody is saying that the game should be banned or that the people who liked it are wife beater misogynists.

Not yet.

However, as has been the case with Rapelay or various games portraying gay relationships, I don't think that my notion that controversy can - and often will - quickly lead to calls for political action to be taken against them is unfounded. The US generally have a healthy respect for Freedom of Speech, but as such voices seem to grow ever stronger and more numerous, concern is in order.

You are making this argument up, enjoy the game and the trailer if you like it. People should speak about their displeasure for the trailer. I, for example, think its incredibly idiotic.

They certainly should, so long as they respect its right to be shown/broadcast. If we're all on that page, I don't really care what's said on it.

It should also be noted that, unlike the US, many other countries already ban works they find "offensive." There is no difference whatsoever between banning a work like "Mein Kampf" in Germany and banning a work like "Huckleberry Finn" in Alabama. Banning works only ensures that they will have a *GREATER* impact on the future, not less, because it indicates that the established order has a problem with the ideas contained in those works.

Germany doesn't end up with Neo-Nazis because they read "Mein Kampf" or played a game with a swastika in. They end up with Neo-Nazis because they've whitewashed over their entire history. The art doesn't cause the criminal activity.

So my question about the game is. Are those women actually nuns (crazy assassin sect nun type people), or assassins that dress as nuns?

Because, to me, both answers are perfect game for Hitman's hairless wrath and fury.

RvLeshrac:

ex275w:

Phasmal:

I think you misunderstand. I'm not saying some women can't find such types attractive (I for one, have a huge thing for nerds), I'm saying the macho types in games and such were not designed for their sexual appeal to the opposite gender. They are designed with dudes in mind.

I would agree that Kratos, the Gears of War dudes, and Chris in Resident Evil 5 were made to fulfill male power fantasies. Yet I still think that most of the time characters designers just end up saying, "Oh we want a tough man in the crew", so they end up making characters liek Sten or Oghren who are most likely to appeal to the male gender.

I still find it funny that no one complains when a character is explicitly made for a female audience, (Thane, Aladdin and My little ponies) men like them more than women.

Still designing characters for one gender I think is dumb, I prefer characters like Dante (DMC) who appeal to power fantasies instead of exclusively female or male power fantasies.

Personally, I find the comic linked to be far more relevant to the Hitman-supporting side of the discussion. She's not drawn a "man," she's drawn a specific woman's ideal man.

Media displays idealised versions of Perfect People. Moreso for most game characters. Why? Because a game about average people fighting other average people for no particular reason is *actually* a "murder simulator." Instead, we have over-the-top enemies (PMC wearing skin-tight bodysuits underneath Nun disguises) and over-the-top protagonists (A bar-coded cloned super-assassin whose only moral and ethical centre is what the player gives him).

What's truly interesting, and germane to the discussion, is that the people who hold these opinions *DO* want to see images like this banned. They certainly don't (usually) come right out and say it, but that's the overtone - "I don't like this, and therefore no one should ever be allowed to create or display anything like this ever again."

That's exactly the same way the public was sold Prohibition, and the same way the public is sold Book-Banning. If you truly feel that this should be barred, then you have to side with people who want to see Harry Potter, Huckleberry Finn, Moby Dick, Romeo & Juliet, and countless other works banned. They have equally valid arguments, backed up by an equally non-existent body of evidence.

I think the only things that should be banned is media that intentionally glorify commiting illegal acts in real life, especially acts that deny a person's rights. So I would only count snuff films in my definition. (Mobster movies and stuff like I Spit on Your Grave are still allowed since they serve to show us how horrible some people are)

The only people that want to ban stuff are dogmatic people, we should regard their egocentric behavior as silly.

SycoMantis91:

Taunta:
THE FACT THAT THEY'RE WOMEN IS NOT THE POINT

The point is said women are supposedly assassins but instead of wearing practical clothing, wear fetish outfits that serve no purpose other than to titillate an imaginary male audience, who presumably gets a boner from seeing scantily-clad dis-empowered women show off their butts and then get brutally murdered. That is a bad thing.

There is no other reason for them to suddenly tear off their nun habits to reveal clothing like that. That's ludicrous.

If they were men wearing equally fetishistic clothing, then I would have a problem with that too.

If I was wearing a pretty unrevealing body-clinging leather suit, and had the choice to shed the impeding to movement garb, or the flexible leather suit, when trying to take out a highly dangerous assassin, I'd pick the suit.especially if I'm the one picking the fight.

If you're the one picking the fight, presumably you'd choose the uniform that's right for the job. Cover all your vital areas. If he has guns, wear bullet-proof armor.

Fishnet stockings serve no purpose other than to look sexy. They are too thin to provide any sort of leg warmth, and they can get caught or snagged on things.

High heels are painful to wear, period, even if you're just standing around for more than an hour, and they are not conducive to getting anywhere more quickly than a newborn giraffe. If I know I have to run, the first thing that happens is taking off the heels. Unless you're wearing a wedge heel (the women in the trailer weren't) the heels also sink into the ground if you have to walk across grass or mud. At any times when you're wearing heels, you also run a much greater risk of stepping off the heel, tripping and falling, and spraining or even breaking your ankles. Any woman who wears high heels fully knowing that she's going to do something physically demanding is an idiot. Full stop.

Earrings and necklaces. When seeing two girls about to get into a fight, have you ever heard one of them say "hold my earrings/heels"? I already talked about heels, but any long earrings, necklaces, or other accessories dangling from your body becomes an target for someone else to pull on. They can choke you with said necklace, or they can rip your earrings out. Even the slightest tug on someone's earrings is extremely painful, much more if they're straight-up trying to yank them out.

Women who are well-endowed in the bust area tend to wear push-up bras when they want people to think their breasts look nice, and sports bras when they need to do something physically demanding. Breasts, especially if you're pretty gifted in that area, are a hindrance. They have a tendency to bounce around, slow you down, and they might even get in your face in extreme cases, which is why sports bras were made to keep them down and out of your way. Bustiers are designed to push up, not keep down.

And finally, spandex like that is not made for mobility. It's not the greatest example, but


Black Widow's full-body suit looks like it's made out of a blend of fabric and real leather, as opposed to spandex, and looks quite a bit less shiny and more padded than the nun suits.

"Pretty unrevealing"?

The butt shots at the beginning, this boob shot

and I are going to have to disagree with you.

i really don't see the controversy but i can why why it exists
the fact is as jim said the trailer is illogical

they gave no logical context for assassin nuns wearing heels and i am not even sure it a possible to make one out of that situation.
this is the only real issue i have with the trailer

judging this game by the trailer alone it seems they kill all stealth aspects of the hitmen games and opted to be a over the top action game like no more heroes
in other words the trailer is a marketing fail

Griffolion:
So my question about the game is. Are those women actually nuns (crazy assassin sect nun type people), or assassins that dress as nuns?

Because, to me, both answers are perfect game for Hitman's hairless wrath and fury.

They are assassins, presumably a PMC, dressed as Nuns so they can walk through town without suspicion. I get the impression that 47 is south-of-the-border, either in Central or South America.

(ed: Oh, and the high-heels make absolutely no sense. At least that's one point on which we can agree unreservedly.)

RvLeshrac:

Griffolion:
So my question about the game is. Are those women actually nuns (crazy assassin sect nun type people), or assassins that dress as nuns?

Because, to me, both answers are perfect game for Hitman's hairless wrath and fury.

They are assassins, presumably a PMC, dressed as Nuns so they can walk through town without suspicion. I get the impression that 47 is south-of-the-border, either in Central or South America.

I see, then to me there's no problem really. If Hitman (is that his name?) was punching actual nuns then maybe I'd be like "why's he punching those women who are merely living in a convent, and not doing anything to him?".

Grey Day for Elcia:
Aw, what. I totally wish that was in SRTT now! You've ruined the game for me </3

I think I ruined it for me, too!

:(

freaper:
Concerning the "violence against women" side of this debate; how long have women been present in the (American) army now? I can't for the life of me remember if I've ever seen a women portrayed as a regular (not important for the plot) soldier in either MW2, BF3 (only modern titles of CoD and BF I've played) or any other FPS. If you argue against violence towards women in war, stealth, whatever games, you should re-evaluate your standpoint, and simply argue against violence in general. Seeing as how that's never going to happen, how about giving both sexes (and all the genders) a fair trial?

Disclaimer:...you know what? I'm pretty sure everyone's mature enough not to assume I'm pro domestic violence.

Women aren't portrayed as regular soldiers in part because actual combat roles allowed for women have been greatly limited in a lot of major militaries, and especially the US.

I'm not sure where you're going with the rest of what you said, though. that is, I follow your point, but I'm not sure how the rest of what you say actually leads up to it.

ex275w:

RvLeshrac:

ex275w:

*snip*

*snip*

I think the only things that should be banned is media that intentionally glorify commiting illegal acts in real life, especially acts that deny a person's rights. So I would only count snuff films in my definition. (Mobster movies and stuff like I Spit on Your Grave are still allowed since they serve to show us how horrible some people are)

The only people that want to ban stuff are dogmatic people, we should regard their egocentric behavior as silly.

So, then, "Romeo & Juliet" should be banned? Suicide is illegal, you know.

How about the "Dirty Harry" films?

"Kill Bill" which, while over-the-top, is ostensibly 'realism'?

Any of the Hong-Kong or Korean action films of the past 30 years? Yakuza films in Japan? All of those should be banned?

There are numerous works of classic literature which glorify illegal actions in the cause of "justice," for whatever the actor's definition of "justice" might be. "Julius Caesar" glorifies the murder of one's political leader should you disagree with them.

Griffolion:

RvLeshrac:

Griffolion:
So my question about the game is. Are those women actually nuns (crazy assassin sect nun type people), or assassins that dress as nuns?

Because, to me, both answers are perfect game for Hitman's hairless wrath and fury.

They are assassins, presumably a PMC, dressed as Nuns so they can walk through town without suspicion. I get the impression that 47 is south-of-the-border, either in Central or South America.

I see, then to me there's no problem really. If Hitman (is that his name?) was punching actual nuns then maybe I'd be like "why's he punching those women who are merely living in a convent, and not doing anything to him?".

Minor correction: Looks like... Hawaii?

RvLeshrac:

Griffolion:

RvLeshrac:

They are assassins, presumably a PMC, dressed as Nuns so they can walk through town without suspicion. I get the impression that 47 is south-of-the-border, either in Central or South America.

I see, then to me there's no problem really. If Hitman (is that his name?) was punching actual nuns then maybe I'd be like "why's he punching those women who are merely living in a convent, and not doing anything to him?".

Minor correction: Looks like... Hawaii?

I'm just gonna lay this out there. I honestly don't know. :/

Phasmal:

I think you misunderstand. I'm not saying some women can't find such types attractive (I for one, have a huge thing for nerds), I'm saying the macho types in games and such were not designed for their sexual appeal to the opposite gender. They are designed with dudes in mind.

It is.

Eri:

I like how no one bothered replying to this, Probably because they realized it destroyed any argument they would have had.

+100 to you, sir.

Or possibly trying to play this up as "violence against women" as the issue in itself is a strawman.

Which leads me to....

Taunta:
THE FACT THAT THEY'RE WOMEN IS NOT THE POINT

I'm betting 90% of the people arguing it are aware of that. It's simply more convenient to attack a strawman as opposed to actually addressing the topic at hand. Look at the context of the explanation below the last Critical Miss comment, and how people managed to get to "are you people saying there should never be any violence against women ever?"

...No, but I'm betting they knew that.

Sentient Captcha Attack: Last Straw.

RvLeshrac:

ex275w:

RvLeshrac:

*snip*

I think the only things that should be banned is media that intentionally glorify commiting illegal acts in real life, especially acts that deny a person's rights. So I would only count snuff films in my definition. (Mobster movies and stuff like I Spit on Your Grave are still allowed since they serve to show us how horrible some people are)

The only people that want to ban stuff are dogmatic people, we should regard their egocentric behavior as silly.

So, then, "Romeo & Juliet" should be banned? Suicide is illegal, you know.

How about the "Dirty Harry" films?

"Kill Bill" which, while over-the-top, is ostensibly 'realism'?

Any of the Hong-Kong or Korean action films of the past 30 years? Yakuza films in Japan? All of those should be banned?

There are numerous works of classic literature which glorify illegal actions in the cause of "justice," for whatever the actor's definition of "justice" might be. "Julius Caesar" glorifies the murder of one's political leader should you disagree with them.

OK I change my point a little, the only media that should be banned are snuff films, because they tend to feature "unwilling actors." My point is, snuff movies glorify murder, while many violent movies, while they have murder and violence and criminal behavior don't exactly motivate me to go on a shooting spree.
We are on the same side, why are you debating with me?

Shameless:
Movies and comic book have always overly sexualized women, I don't see what makes Video Games so different, I mean no one screamed at the makers of the Sucker Punch movie for sexualizing their women. Ana they were REAL women and not ones made by ones and zeroes.

People complain about it in comics too and movies as well, but they get the usual Dudebro reply that seems to be coming in response to the criticisms of the trailer too.

It would have been much more interesting to have the nuns use hitman's own stealth tatics against him by secretly setting up traps and then have 47 disable those traps and then silently kill them one by one like in the game, perhaps like the MardiGras assassin killing mission in Blood Money.

But I am not very angry at it because there is a female equal of sexualizing voilence. That is, Twilight and everything that has caught the Twilight bug and been ruined like Legend of Korra and Thundercats. Those things are female fantasies of men fighting over them and no one is as outraged about that.
Once people stop putting that in fiction, then I will be outraged at stuff like this.

ex275w:

I think the only things that should be banned is media that intentionally glorify commiting illegal acts in real life, especially acts that deny a person's rights. So I would only count snuff films in my definition. (Mobster movies and stuff like I Spit on Your Grave are still allowed since they serve to show us how horrible some people are)

What about those mobster movies that DON'T serve to show how horrible some people are?

Shameless:
Movies and comic book have always overly sexualized women, I don't see what makes Video Games so different, I mean no one screamed at the makers of the Sucker Punch movie for sexualizing their women. Ana they were REAL women and not ones made by ones and zeroes.

In fact, a lot of people screamed at the makers of Sucker Punch for sexualising their women.

 Pages PREV 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 NEXT

Reply to Thread

Your account does not have posting rights. If you feel this is in error, please contact an administrator. (ID# 59924)