Jimquisition: The Positive Side to Punching Nuns

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Yeah, there's something...icky about mixing material designed to arouse and graphic violence. If that's your thing, well, there are weirder fetishes out there, but this isn't a niche porn game, it's part of a well-known mainstream series. It's like "Aww yeah, you guys know you're into watching women in sexy little panties and nun habits get beaten up," and I'm going "Uh....what? Not really...is that a thing? No, you know what, don't tell me. I don't want to know."

I don't know if I'm outraged, just kind of creeped out.

...not seeing what people are bitching about in this game, looks awesome, hopefully the gameplay will be up to scratch, saw Dishonoured gameplay and felt underwhelmed.

godofslack:
He got stabbed in the neck! Something that would of instantly killed a Nun but he totally wasn't even injured. That's frankly silly. Look at it this way if you put a super powerful person in a game and had them beat up scantly clad women and have the game slow down to show every gory detail as you kill them I'd have a problem with that. The issue isn't who's killing them, rather the fact somebody is brutalizing them in a sexual manner without any consequence. And even still I'd be okay with that if it was for a reason other than just hurr durr look at this sexy violence.

You refuse to separate the two factors. There is sexy nuns, and then there is violence. I re-watched the trailer and there is you're not seeing anything special after the start fights.

Slow-mo. Usually slow mo is used to detail the protagonist, not the opposite.

Gory details. Yeah, a broken nose is severely gory.

Nobody was brutalized in a sexual manner. There is no choking with the thighs, no boobs slapping faces, etc...

Also, a slash is usually different from a stab. I know the difference between the two because both happened to me before. A slash might only cause a minor wound on the skin, and let's not forget that 47 has a lot of muscle on his neck that protect him.

Personally, I saw nothing wrong with the trailer, I'm not one to scream bloody murder at a little skin shown.

I wholeheartedly disagree Jim. Sexualization of men are just as prevelant as sexualization of women, look no futher than Twilight. If were going to have this debate, it's going to be on equal terms, not another "save the women, damn the men" diatribe.

LadyRhian:

If the men sent to kill 47 dressed as monks, and stripped off their monk robes to reveal them wearing assless leather chaps (or pleather), vinyl banana hammocks, studded dog collars and/or other sexy fetishwear, you might have a point. As it is, they are dressed that way to titilate men, and presumably the viewer.

I didn't realise there were fetish wear monks in Saints Row ......... did I miss that part or something ?

FallenMessiah88:
I wholeheartedly disagree Jim. Sexualization of men are just as prevelant as sexualization of women, look no futher than Twilight.

I think this is the third instance in this topic of the accusation of male sexualization being just as rampant as women sexualization, and all anyone has been able to come up with as an example is Twilight.

The hypersexualization of males happens. Yes, Twilight is an example. It is nowhere near as big a problem as the hypersexualization of females. Comparitively speaking, it's not a problem at all. Women have a history of being abused and diminished by being objectified and hypersexualized and have had to fight and win legal battles to have power over their own sexuality. Saying that men carry the same burden is just flat out untrue.

I think the problem is not the violence, but the nun outfits. I think actually that some people would be gratified if there was a female character in these games who wasn't there simply to look pretty and be useless. Maybe that's just me.

I'm not the demographic that gets put off by the trailer, but I think the whole point of the video is that some people will be bothered or outright angry and we should understand that.

The whole defense that in comparison to [insert something horrible you watched you sick fuck] it's not that bad doesn't hold water, neither that it does the same things as in other medium. It's not something to be proud off. Something that happens regularly is not necessarily alright.

That and the fact that it's nothing like a hitman game.

FallenMessiah88:
I wholeheartedly disagree Jim. Sexualization of men are just as prevelant as sexualization of women, look no futher than Twilight. If were going to have this debate, it's going to be on equal terms, not another "save the women, damn the men" diatribe.

But here's the thing, Twilight is BAD. REEAAAALLLY BAD. It deserves being kicked in the stomach. Repeatedly.

I don't think that Twilight excuses the outrage or what happened to this video. It's an incredibly weak excuse to say since there's Twilight everything is now allowed.

I also contest the point about female sexualization being as prominent as male sexualization. Is there an equivalent of a male monk taking off his coat showing he's wearing only tight leather pants? When was the last time you saw this?
imagehttp://cdn.chud.com/c/c6/c6a3b841_tumblr_lzzb94A80i1r5m6cuo1_500.jpeg

I don't think the producers have thought that we would take the trailer seriously. They must have thought: "Well, it is a fictional world where people are super assassins. Why not having sexy nuns in functional (that should be unfunctional) combat gear just for fun?"

I haven't played the Hitman series. And I agree with people that are against it because it may take the characterization off the series.

But I will not allow myself to live in a world where I can't appreciate animated violence against sexy nuns just because it is sexist. If I am not allowed to enjoy fantasy because of that, yaoi and vampires should be banned too.

Alexnader:

As far as I'm aware most of the outrage isn't from the violence, nor is from the violence against women. It's the way the trailer sexualises said violence against women. You have to admit, slow motion shots of scantily clad women getting the shit kicked out of them does seem a lot like violent erotica.

Now people will read as far into this trailer as they want. Harmless violence or the brutal domination of women presented in a provocative manner? Probably a bit of both really.

Personally the trailer makes me uncomfortable, it just seems unnecessarily fetishistic to me. But I can see why others may have no issue with it or get riled up about it.

I'm aware that the main issue here is the sexualization of the women, and the violence. Nonetheless, I saw plenty a post condemn the violence against women in videogames, which is completely ridiculous, seeing how those lady assassins are professionals, and don't take shit from anybody. My point is that most women are "special" enemies, not your average trooper or soldier. That implies that women can only be effective foes if they're named, or somehow enhanced. There's few games where women fight in the normal ranks; Guild Wars, Mass Effect (to a lesser degree) are the only ones I can name off the top of my head, but there are no doubt more of these.
I might be reading too much into this though.[/quote]

The lack of women in the lower ranks does seem to imply that their presence on the battlefield is something noteworthy and unusual. Half Life had this with the assassins. However I don't see how people could take offense to the often quite accurate idea that women aren't often in front-line roles.

I'd agree that decrying the trailer merely for depicting violence against women is pretty dumb. The sexualisation issue has far more meat to it in my opinion.

I thought people were mad because hitman was never about T&A?

The_Kodu:

LadyRhian:

If the men sent to kill 47 dressed as monks, and stripped off their monk robes to reveal them wearing assless leather chaps (or pleather), vinyl banana hammocks, studded dog collars and/or other sexy fetishwear, you might have a point. As it is, they are dressed that way to titilate men, and presumably the viewer.

I didn't realise there were fetish wear monks in Saints Row ......... did I miss that part or something ?

No, just pointing out that there is a difference between a bunch of men sent to kill 47 and what was depicted in this trailer. I am not even against the trailer- I just think that a bunch of men sent to kill 47 would not be depicted dressed as monks (Or priests, for that matter), then strip off the monk robes to reveal leather or pleather bondage gear. I am not even sure if there is a male version of the stiletto heels the nunsassins are wearing. But now I'd love to see the opposite male version depicted the same way. (Men dressed as priests/monks who turn into leather bondage guy assassins- that would be amusing.)

So the truth has finally come out from Jim Sterling, he is a relentless white knight leftist who thinks that HE cares and YOU don't, he cares about the poor slutty dressed killers and the rest of you that don't give a shit must hate women and bash them in your spare time.

Again with any kind of outrage like this lets reverse the roles, say it was male priests with massive bulges in their pants and huge muscles attacking a female hit man, well, not only would there be no controversy but the game would probably be held up as a game of empowerment for women and a stand against organized religion! Leftists would be shouting from the rooftops at how awesome and fun it is, and if anyone expressed an opposite view they would be told to "man up" and STFU.

Anyone with eyes can see the constant bashing of men in advertising, but where is the outcry for them? And the men bashed are usually everyday guys, fathers and regular blokes, not bazooka carrying assassins on their way to kill someone...

The fact that there is any outcry on this issue at all shows how degraded the gaming community has become and how the tentacles of political correctness and feminism has slowly started to rot away at one of the last places of freedom of expression for everyone but especially for men.

Yes the gaming world is changing, but for the worse. A few years ago no one would bat a surgically implanted transvestite eye lash if you called someone a retard for playing a game badly, now if you bitch about it hard enough you can get someone banned. Where will this end? When you'll get charged in real life for slapping a virtual secretary on their virtual ass at your virtual job? How far will this go?

Look, lucky for us gaming is still a free market and in the end your dollar does the talking. I personally gave the escapist a fair go but it's becoming more and more clear where things are going.

TizzytheTormentor:
Personally, I saw nothing wrong with the trailer, I'm not one to scream bloody murder at a little skin shown.

I agree but there is one thing that bothers me: Were did that nun keep the rocket launcher? It wasn't on her back when she was wearing a robe? O_o

Chromanin:

I think this is the third instance in this topic of the accusation of male sexualization being just as rampant as women sexualization, and all anyone has been able to come up with as an example is Twilight.

The hypersexualization of males happens. Yes, Twilight is an example. It is nowhere near as big a problem as the hypersexualization of females. Comparitively speaking, it's not a problem at all. Women have a history of being abused and diminished by being objectified and hypersexualized and have had to fight and win legal battles to have power over their own sexuality. Saying that men carry the same burden is just flat out untrue.

I honestly don't give a shit whether sexualization of males isn't as prevalent as sexualization of females, nor do I care about whether the oppression of women has a longer history. Saying that problem A is not as big a problem as problem B, is not an excuse to ignore problem A altogether. It may mean that you should pay a little more attention to problem B sure, but that's about it.

Frission:

But here's the thing, Twilight is BAD. REEAAAALLLY BAD. It deserves being kicked in the stomach. Repeatedly.

I don't think that Twilight excuses the outrage or what happened to this video. It's an incredibly weak excuse to say since there's Twilight everything is now allowed.

I also contest the point about female sexualization being as prominent as male sexualization. Is there an equivalent of a male monk taking off his coat showing he's wearing only tight leather pants? When was the last time you saw this?
imagehttp://cdn.chud.com/c/c6/c6a3b841_tumblr_lzzb94A80i1r5m6cuo1_500.jpeg

I never said that Twilight excused anything. I merely said that it happens on both sides, regardless of gender. The fact that male sexualization isn't as big a problem is, for me, a non point.

LadyRhian:

The_Kodu:

LadyRhian:

If the men sent to kill 47 dressed as monks, and stripped off their monk robes to reveal them wearing assless leather chaps (or pleather), vinyl banana hammocks, studded dog collars and/or other sexy fetishwear, you might have a point. As it is, they are dressed that way to titilate men, and presumably the viewer.

I didn't realise there were fetish wear monks in Saints Row ......... did I miss that part or something ?

No, just pointing out that there is a difference between a bunch of men sent to kill 47 and what was depicted in this trailer. I am not even against the trailer- I just think that a bunch of men sent to kill 47 would not be depicted dressed as monks (Or priests, for that matter), then strip off the monk robes to reveal leather or pleather bondage gear. I am not even sure if there is a male version of the stiletto heels the nunsassins are wearing. But now I'd love to see the opposite male version depicted the same way. (Men dressed as priests/monks who turn into leather bondage guy assassins- that would be amusing.)

How about this version:
A group of men, coming to kill 47.
Not dressed as monks, but as Orthodox Jews, with hats, coats, black pants, which are revealed to be tight leather upon closer inspection, and everything else needed, except the funny hair.
Upon arrivin, they throw their coats away, to reveal that they aren't wearing shirts, their upper bodies are only covered by ammunition belts and weapon hoslters, the rain giving their ripped abdomens and strong pectorals a lustering shine in the the dim light.
Each of them is wearing a Cross on a chain around his neck (turns out, they aren't really jewish).
And then ass-kicking ensues, with the assassins being beaten into a pulp by 47.

I don't give a damn about nuns being beaten up, whatever, they're people, they can be beaten up. It's the ridiculous sexualisation, it pisses me off. If it makes sense in game, fine, this doesn't. There's no point to having them do that except to make men drool and it's pathetic. Fuck off with that shit, I don't want fetishistic crap on my screen, porn exists for that, I want a game, I want insight into the gameplay or the story or the characters or the aesthetics, not "lol naked people getting beaten up". They treat you like children with that trailer and what's sad is that people rush to defend them.

Wow, a lot of people here are really missing the point of this controversy. As a few people have already said the problem is NOT the violence against women, it's how the violence is portrayed. There's a difference. I haven't seen anyone complaining about the violence and if they are they need to shut up and stop confusing the matter.
Some people are saying that this is silly because no one complains when a man is beat up in a game but put a women in there and all hell breaks loose. Again, this is missing the point. A more appropriate comparison would be one smartly dressed woman (like agent 47) taking out ton of men in sexy policemen outfits who barely fight back. Yes, in the trailer the women do fight back but not much and any damage done is shrugged off. If this were to happen people would complain, granted not as much as this trailer because people always kick up a fuss when 'violence' and 'woman' are in the same sentence.

You can probably tell this is really frustrating me because people aren't looking into this before complaining /rant

Chromanin:

FallenMessiah88:
I wholeheartedly disagree Jim. Sexualization of men are just as prevelant as sexualization of women, look no futher than Twilight.

I think this is the third instance in this topic of the accusation of male sexualization being just as rampant as women sexualization, and all anyone has been able to come up with as an example is Twilight.

The hypersexualization of males happens. Yes, Twilight is an example. It is nowhere near as big a problem as the hypersexualization of females. Comparitively speaking, it's not a problem at all. Women have a history of being abused and diminished by being objectified and hypersexualized and have had to fight and win legal battles to have power over their own sexuality. Saying that men carry the same burden is just flat out untrue.

Males are usually hyper idiotilized and made to look like animals that only think with their dick and are capable of little else. For a good run down of how men are treated in the media check out these videos and very are many MANY more like it out there: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GuZLAdacM1M

They are sexulized also, plenty

FallenMessiah88:

Chromanin:

I think this is the third instance in this topic of the accusation of male sexualization being just as rampant as women sexualization, and all anyone has been able to come up with as an example is Twilight.

The hypersexualization of males happens. Yes, Twilight is an example. It is nowhere near as big a problem as the hypersexualization of females. Comparitively speaking, it's not a problem at all. Women have a history of being abused and diminished by being objectified and hypersexualized and have had to fight and win legal battles to have power over their own sexuality. Saying that men carry the same burden is just flat out untrue.

I honestly don't give a shit whether sexualization of males isn't as prevalent as sexualization of females, nor do I care about whether the oppression of women has a longer history. Saying that problem A is not as big a problem as problem B, is not an excuse to ignore problem A altogether. It may mean that you should pay a little more attention to problem B sure, but that's about it.

As I said, the rate at which it happens isn't what makes it a problem. It isn't a problem for men because, no matter how often men get hypersexualized in media, they will never be viewed exclusively as sex objects. They never have. Women, however, have been burdened by this stigma for a long time and are still trying to shake it off today.

Chromanin:
As I said, the rate at which it happens isn't what makes it a problem. It isn't a problem for men because, no matter how often men get hypersexualized in media, they will never be viewed exclusively as sex objects. They never have. Women, however, have been burdened by this stigma for a long time and are still trying to shake it off today.

Are you 100% sure of that?

play that game, spot complaining when video games try to be different with their sequels, you don't make them. wait for it to release, read the reviews and play a demo then. it might be good.

soulfire130:

TizzytheTormentor:
Personally, I saw nothing wrong with the trailer, I'm not one to scream bloody murder at a little skin shown.

I agree but there is one thing that bothers me: Were did that nun keep the rocket launcher? It wasn't on her back when she was wearing a robe? O_o

From her pocket? Seriously, in any RPG (lol) where do they keep the weapons? In Fallout, they pull giant nuke launching cannons out of their asses...just a game thing I guess.

ex275w:
Most human beings that see a movie that depicts a "profession" were you are likely to get shot or get arrested isn't exactly a good motivator to becoming a mobster, even if the movie tells you it's the most fun job in the world.

I think that's way off base, and likely a complete asspull.

Besides, you have plenty of movies that are the equivalent of Saints Row. Crime not only pays, but if you're a sociopathic mobster, you will be famous for it. See also: Rap.

mjc0961:
And the Deckers. And the Morningstar. ...God damn Saints Row The Third's campaign was disappointing. If it didn't have the awesome free roam bits I would probably hate that game.

Agreed on all counts. I just thought the Luchadores were the most disappointing, so...

I mean, you're a bunch of masked wrestlers and your specialist is a grenadier? WTF?

Deckers were fun, at least.

FallenMessiah88:

Chromanin:
As I said, the rate at which it happens isn't what makes it a problem. It isn't a problem for men because, no matter how often men get hypersexualized in media, they will never be viewed exclusively as sex objects. They never have. Women, however, have been burdened by this stigma for a long time and are still trying to shake it off today.

Are you 100% sure of that?

I can't speak for the poster, but the answer is yes. Yes, it's a problem. What did you mean by "are you 100% sure of that?" Do you have anything to add?

Frission:

FallenMessiah88:

Chromanin:
As I said, the rate at which it happens isn't what makes it a problem. It isn't a problem for men because, no matter how often men get hypersexualized in media, they will never be viewed exclusively as sex objects. They never have. Women, however, have been burdened by this stigma for a long time and are still trying to shake it off today.

Are you 100% sure of that?

I can't speak for the poster, but the answer is yes. Yes, it's a problem. What did you mean by "are you 100% sure of that?" Do you have anything to add?

I never said it wasn't. In fact, I've been saying that it is a problem for both genders (but more so for women).

I was asking the poster whether he or she was a 100% sure that there has never been any incident in history where a man has been viewed exclusively as a sex object.

Ok I completely don't get your "Women in fighting games" example. They are sexualized, sure, but that's as far as it goes. Whether they kick ass or get their ass kicked is entirely dependent on the players playing as them. And from what I've seen, a character being less effective (aka low tier, or really anyway unbalanced) is taken as a bad thing by the community no matter the gender.

In my opinion, while sexualization is a problem video games have, being a valid threat no matter the gender is something video games have done very well.

-don't see the problem with the nuns:

our hero is hurt nuns(the good guys) walk up to his place where they reveal their leathery goodness(the bad guys)

it displays a wolf in sheep's clothing

i don't know much about the hitman series but it wouldn't surprise me if 47 discovers some not so nice things about the people he worked for

-this also makes the clothing more forgiving though i agree it was unnecessary

-and why would punching female goons be worse than punching male ones, that's the real sexism

also most gamers are a lot less affected by trailers than teenage boys, who this trailer was made for

Yet another "sexism is wrong" diatribe that ironically, but unsupririsingly, operates based on the major unstated premise that sexism is only a problem if it's negatively affecting women.

does anybody get the feeling that the marketing department used this ad specifically to get people to talk about the game regardless of the resulting context

because that would mean that everybody fell for it again

I agree the discussion is good, but it doesn't make it any less silly.

I don't get the violence against women angle.

It's hitman. You murder (sometimes brutally) people of both genders as part of your job.

I hope that people aren't suggesting that we make sure not to have women victims in games, that would be stupid. Especially in games where you play a criminal.

You know what's sad.

That trailer has the most realistic looking graphics on humans I've ever seen. I mean just look at 47's back *drool*.

All that is being overshadowed by the nuns.

I don't blame the people complaining I blame IO, because it was a stupid idea.

I play Hitman for the stealth, the skill you need in not being noticed, in taking out as little people as you can. The subtleties really add to it.

And now this trailer.

If I hadn't seen the gameplay, I'd have dismissed the Hitman game as abandoning stealth and then not buy it.

Oh yeah I'm not going to boycott, I think boycotting them over this is stupid, that and I loved Blood Money a lot.

Edit: One more thing. Game makers, we have access to the internet and all the free hardcore porn that comes with it. Please think about that before trying to appeal to us with people in skimpy outfits. That is all.

Mylinkay Asdara:

Or! They ARE killer assassin types, but apparently they let their pimp dress them that morning and thus the visuals convey a message of yes, women can be killers, but only in a hyper-sexualized context,

This is why people roll their eyes at these types of complaints.

This trailer is not making any kind of statement about women. Just because all women in a movie or whatever do X doesn't mean it's trying to say 'All women do X'.

Especially when it's a 2-odd minute trailer that's not meant to give away too much.

You are essentially crafting straw men.

Father Time:

Mylinkay Asdara:

Or! They ARE killer assassin types, but apparently they let their pimp dress them that morning and thus the visuals convey a message of yes, women can be killers, but only in a hyper-sexualized context,

This is why people roll their eyes at these types of complaints.

This trailer is not making any kind of statement about women. Just because all women in a movie or whatever do X doesn't mean it's trying to say 'All women do X'.

Especially when it's a 2-odd minute trailer that's not meant to give away too much.

You are essentially crafting straw men.

Nice selective quotation from several pages back there. Did you even read the part where I mentioned that I am not complaining and don't, in fact, care all that much about it? Just curious.

Edit: While I am here...

Father Time:
One more thing. Game makers, we have access to the internet and all the free hardcore porn that comes with it. Please think about that before trying to appeal to us with people in skimpy outfits. That is all.

That's a brilliant observation. Plenty of porn to go around now-a-days and therefore little need for video games to seek to provide the 'fan service' to young male players.

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