Zero Punctuation: Max Payne 3

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To me, this seems like Max Payne with a Rockstar coat of paint and I mean both in terms of style, story and gameplay.

really like this game, but I absolutely SUCK AT IT

Seriously; trying to be a badass, but spending more time getting bullet holes in my chest..Bullet time DOES NOTHING FOR ME

PoweD:
[ snip

Okay firstly I was using New York as an example of generic big city and secondly I already mentioned the importance of lighting; you know when I said thats where the name for the genre comes from. Also the random location change is quite common place in Noir though usually its just office-bar-alley-rooftop with sometimes a casion, mansion or dockyards to break it up.

I have the same problem with the Spiderman movies; he spends half the movies shuffling around moaning how he doesn't want to be spiderman.

I haven't laughed this hard at a ZP ep in a long time!

Predicting the Carmageddon joke in the credits made me feel good.

Oh man, at the beginning I actually thought he was gonna be serious about the "shooters can't get better than this"...until it turned into a joke about using the same guns in cutscene as in gameplay. Seriously though, HE ACTUALLY LIKED IT! HUZZAH!

NuclearShadow:
I think those who dislike Max's character simply do not like a humanized character. Not every hero has to be a macho brute with no emotions but anger. Max was a common man who was deeply emotionally scarred because of the events that took place, he became a addict and shows true humanity in him. He is flawed and that is his appeal.

The game-play criticism is fair enough but I think Yahtzee was just looking for something to complain about beyond that and targeted the character. He also seems to fail to realize that we are suppose to judge Max in our own way. So whether you find Max to be a tragic character that you sympathize with or one that you think is over emotional and looked down upon, the character worked perfectly as intended. It's a shame to see him express his dislike against the stereotypical macho characters in the past and then position himself against the very opposite of that here.

So in closing, either Yahtzee just needed another complaint and attacked the well developed character or Yahtzee really just doesn't understand the arts.

No, the criticism is not in him being flawed or tormented, as he was all that for the first two games. It's in how he became a one key note. They hammer out his broodiness that they actually fall into the Gears of war kind of trap of 2 dimensionalizing the characters. Kind of like Kratos.

Which is weird, because characters with a bruised past are kind of rockstar's thing. CJ and Niko in San Andreas, John Marsten in Red Dead Redemption, hell, even Max on the previous two games they all felt all the more alive than by just being vessels of constant misery. So this decision by Rockstar is actually a bit substandard to their storytelling.

Eldritch Warlord:
Halo 2 had the player character holding the same weapon in cutscenes as he was in the preceding gameplay.
Just saying.

Thanks. I was hoping someone would say this before me. :)

The reason for the relentless misery is that Max is an addict, and this is pretty accurate for how addicts tend to look at their life.

The juxtaposition between a mind-blowingly awesome action stunt and the killjoy reaction that vacuums all the fun out of the room, is most likely deliberate.

grimner:
They hammer out his broodiness that they actually fall into the Gears of war kind of trap of 2 dimensionalizing the characters. Kind of like Kratos.

Oh, come on. He offers more than Kratos and the gears crew. Quality brooding!
Being drunk an down people are sounding like this. I thougt his dialogue was very fitting for a alcoholic, pill popping ex-cop with a shot family and a bodycount in the thousand.
Besides he still has good lines, not as much as in the former games, but it`s still there. It`s just not in your face and more for little smirks.

There is more to his character and he makes decisions and changes(i`m not talking about his shaved head) within the game and the tone of his inner monologue changes too.

Ah, sorry, i try to stop the jumping from now on. I love the whole franchise and i´m kind of blind when it comes to MP3. Other opinions than mine are just sooooo wrong ;P

I laughed pretty hard when he spent half the video teasing Max for failed slo-mo dives xD because that was more or less half my experience with this game
but when done successfully the action really is a thrill :]

even I was thinking that the story was so serious I couldn't take it seriously

This video has made my day.Thank you yet again Yahtzee.

Also regarding the game,I bought it as well and found it quite enjoyable,especially it's chaotic multiplayer component.

Call me a dribbling fanboy, but I'm really sour about Max Payne 3, cuz the original writer of the old games (Sam Lake, also attributed to the Alan Wake games) pretty much washed his hands of the whole thing. Even had a whole opening of a chapter in Alan Wake devoted to how Lake considered the Payne series dead. It's sorta a Terminator situation: if the original creator considers the series dead, they should just leave well enough alone.

Kevin Bennett:
While I agree with most of Yahtzee's vids, and even when i don't still LOL, as someone who recently bought Max 1&2 on Steam to get myself in the mood for Max 3 i have to say if you remember Max 1 he has a VERY good reason for being messed up, he was literally about 10 seconds too late to save his wife and newborn baby, actually hearing the shots that killed them as he ran up the stairs.

Whether or not you think someone could get over that without years of therapy is one thing, accepting that would seriously mess someone up is quite another. I had forgotten how truly cold and vicious the backstory in Max 1 was until I played it again but knowing that just five minutes would have changed your life HAS to mess you up. I know Waylon Jennings ended up in a mental hospital because he flipped a quarter with Buddy holly for a seat on the plane and the thought that if it would have landed tails he'd be dead drove him bonkers, but to have something as trivial as "if you ran that last stop sign your family wouldn't be dead" would have to seriously mess up your mind.

The problem with this is, well... That was the beginning of the first game. That's a fucked up place to start out, yeah, but spoiler alert: he got over it! By the end of the second game he had completely moved on not only from his wifes death, but the death of his new lover and probably closest thing he has to a friend (never mind the fact I busted my ass playing that game on the hardest difficulty to make sure she lived, cuz apparently now it's not canon. Thanks Rockstar.)

NuclearShadow:
I think those who dislike Max's character simply do not like a humanized character. Not every hero has to be a macho brute with no emotions but anger. Max was a common man who was deeply emotionally scarred because of the events that took place, he became a addict and shows true humanity in him. He is flawed and that is his appeal.

The game-play criticism is fair enough but I think Yahtzee was just looking for something to complain about beyond that and targeted the character. He also seems to fail to realize that we are suppose to judge Max in our own way. So whether you find Max to be a tragic character that you sympathize with or one that you think is over emotional and looked down upon, the character worked perfectly as intended. It's a shame to see him express his dislike against the stereotypical macho characters in the past and then position himself against the very opposite of that here.

So in closing, either Yahtzee just needed another complaint and attacked the well developed character or Yahtzee really just doesn't understand the arts.

Let me guess, you liked Metroid Other M too?

Bad character is not better then no character... especually when Max Payne already HAD a character, and this game shat all over it! Max Payne was humanized, he was a three dimensional- ok maybe not three dimensional, but fully actualized character. The closing line at the end of the second game still gives me shivers: "I had a dream of my wife. She was dead. But it was all right."

Supporting a huge step BACKWARDS for a character and justifying it by calling it "humanization" isn't just not understanding the arts, it's not understanding human beings.

nor finished yet since the pc version came out a bit later. but so far the shooting is fun, story is so far interesting and graphically it looks amazing as well. but damn, 35gb HDD on 4 dvd..amazing.

it certainly is note the best MP. i miss the "carry all the weapons you want" and the comic parts.
im surprised he dint say anything about the blurry cut scenes. even when i arrived in chapter 10, i still hate this stuff they have done with the cut scenes.

alrekr:

Anoni Mus:

MP2 was noir, this isn't, this is normal story with violence and an emo as main character.

Kinda of incorrect as you don't need New York for noir. In fact one of the most notable noir films is Brazil (though is kinda bit sci-fi).

Character wise MP3 is very noir and the noir was first coined to refer to use of lighting in 1920s arthouse films. Also you didn't mention MP1 does that mean you consider MP2 the only noir one of the triology?

I didn't say MP2 was noir because of the location, it's because of the feeling, MP3 doesn't give me noir feeling.

Didn't mention MP1 because I've never finished, played it after the 2nd one so I tought it was a bit weaker.

Anoni Mus:

alrekr:

Anoni Mus:

MP2 was noir, this isn't, this is normal story with violence and an emo as main character.

Kinda of incorrect as you don't need New York for noir. In fact one of the most notable noir films is Brazil (though is kinda bit sci-fi).

Character wise MP3 is very noir and the noir was first coined to refer to use of lighting in 1920s arthouse films. Also you didn't mention MP1 does that mean you consider MP2 the only noir one of the triology?

I didn't say MP2 was noir because of the location, it's because of the feeling, MP3 doesn't give me noir feeling.

I agree. It doesn't have a noir feeling at all. Not even New York levels. Writing is pretty shit if you ask me. Max isn't behaving like Max should behave. He's a completely different character. One you just can't relate to or care about.

I actually preferred MP3's story to the previous games. The first game's plot would have been stronger if it didn't have the horrific habit of introducing characters and then having them die as soon as they speak about three lines, and the second game's story was sort of skewed by its constant pointless timeskipping.

I also wish people would take off their nostalgia goggles when speaking about the first game. The first Max Payne was nowhere near the masterpiece people proclaim it to be, thanks to the frequently-shitty level design, non-existent difficulty curve and the worst boss fights I've seen in a long time. That, and the fact that you would need to be some sort of fucking inhuman machine to avoid wanting to punch the people in Remedy square in the jaw for making the shotgun enemies kill you instantly from just about any range. The first game fell short of being great, and the second felt disjointed, even if it did tighten up the gameplay.

Lotta 13-year-olds trying to argue that 1-dimensional grumpy rage is totally great characterization. Let me know how that works out for you, lads.

So gameplay good/great, story boring?

Eh good enough, I'll buy it.

trollpwner:
Lotta 13-year-olds trying to argue that 1-dimensional grumpy rage is totally great characterization. Let me know how that works out for you, lads.

It doesn't make you seem any wiser than the people you are attempting to put down, if you do so with generic generalizations and an air of condescension.

Roman Monaghan:
Call me a dribbling fanboy, but I'm really sour about Max Payne 3, cuz the original writer of the old games (Sam Lake, also attributed to the Alan Wake games) pretty much washed his hands of the whole thing. Even had a whole opening of a chapter in Alan Wake devoted to how Lake considered the Payne series dead. It's sorta a Terminator situation: if the original creator considers the series dead, they should just leave well enough alone.

Sami Järvi did not "wash his hands." He was involved in making of MP3. He wrote with Dan Houser the Max Payne 3 comics that ties-in previous MP games to MP3. He also gave design pointers with the rest of the Remedy team to Rockstar.

canadamus_prime:

Bloodstain:

canadamus_prime:

Huh? What spoiler? I haven't even played the game. I was just guessing based on Yahtzee's description of the plot.

Ah. I thought you just spoilered that your employer is also your secret twist-revealed end boss. I didn't listen to the part when Yahtzee said "Okay, this now may be considered a spoiler", so I thought that "employer is enemy" thing you told was exactly the spoiler Yahtzee was about to say.
If that isn't the case: I apologise.

Nope, I pretty much just reiterated what Yahtzee said.

And Yahtzee was wrong.

36+ hours from buying the game to being able to play. 36+ hours in which I got to the point where - regardless of the game not running - I was pretty damn sure that I've flushed €50,- down the drain.
Now I've felt like stopping the video at 3:07. Go figure.

Clearing the Eye:

trollpwner:
Lotta 13-year-olds trying to argue that 1-dimensional grumpy rage is totally great characterization. Let me know how that works out for you, lads.

It doesn't make you seem any wiser than the people you are attempting to put down, if you do so with generic generalizations and an air of condescension.

Attacking a comment aimed specifically at 13-year-old idiots? That reflects well on you.

Rob Moir:
"Where was QTE? Like at all?"

- In some of the cut scenes, on the PC version at least.
Press RMB to block some guy with a big knife. Press LMB to take the knife off them. Now press F to kick them to the kerb and finally, Left Ctrl to give them their knife back (if you know what I mean).

Holy fucking christ could you use the quote feature so that the person you meant to understands you, reads you and then replies. Alright, look, it isn't that hard, you see where my comment is? Well click the Quote feature to respond to this and now you have completed the tutorial.

Actually, I looked, they weren't really QTE's as you were playing the game regularly during it. However you just had to do a sequence of button presses to get through, not to keep watching a cut-scene.

trollpwner:

Clearing the Eye:

trollpwner:
Lotta 13-year-olds trying to argue that 1-dimensional grumpy rage is totally great characterization. Let me know how that works out for you, lads.

It doesn't make you seem any wiser than the people you are attempting to put down, if you do so with generic generalizations and an air of condescension.

Attacking a comment aimed specifically at 13-year-old idiots? That reflects well on you.

None of this reflects well on either of you, so there.

-----------------------

Its Max Payne, it is so much of a Payne to run but its still good in the end.

JokerboyJordan:
Totally agree with the lack of a likeable character in Max, I honestly didn't understand his appeal in the previous games. He's such an emo wanker.

In at least the first one, his half-smirk seems to rebate your opinion. He was more self-aware and humorous in the first one. It certainly added to the noir feel, and it didn't substract from the character.

Come on Yahtzee, the same Pink Floyd reference? Someone's getting lazy.

Lykosia:

canadamus_prime:

Bloodstain:

Ah. I thought you just spoilered that your employer is also your secret twist-revealed end boss. I didn't listen to the part when Yahtzee said "Okay, this now may be considered a spoiler", so I thought that "employer is enemy" thing you told was exactly the spoiler Yahtzee was about to say.
If that isn't the case: I apologise.

Nope, I pretty much just reiterated what Yahtzee said.

And Yahtzee was wrong.

If you say so. *shrug*

antipunt:
really like this game, but I absolutely SUCK AT IT

Seriously; trying to be a badass, but spending more time getting bullet holes in my chest..Bullet time DOES NOTHING FOR ME

Maybe you don't suck, maybe it's just a bad game that you might have been fooled into thinking that it's good.

Max Payne 3 taught me that criticism is dead.

As a person who keeps wishing there were actual writting in video games and not liking when they actually do it, you contradict yourself. Good deal you got here for yourself.
Max payne wasnt fun because of its shooting, it was fun because of its story.

Always has been; just used to be a lot funnier too.

I haven't laughed this hard at a Zero Punctuation all year. Your descriptions of how you could mess up the bullet time was priceless. Well done. :)

I just bought MP3 today and so far I have really much fun with it!
It's interesting, how everyone says how "dark" MP3 is... actually I think MP2 was much darker and sinister than this! This quite basic and straight forward. Thanks Yahzee for the spoiler heads up, but I'm not at this point yet but had this "idea" like 15min into the game :P
I bullet-time-jumped in to many corners and water to count so I give you that :) but I wouldn't have liked the game to be totally easy! And if it is hard because of me and a tricky jumping... so be it!
Yahzee mentioned all the current standard FPS games... well MP3 is much better than most of them! Maybe a mopey main character is a little bit "dumb" or you don't like it that much ... but it is more, then CoD, Battlefield, ... ever did!

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