The Big Picture: Junk Drawer Rises

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Wargamer:

In this list we have everything from the nifty but near useless to the outright insane. Does any weapon in 90% of modern shooters deserve to be anywhere near this list? Honestly, the only gun I can think of in FPS land that feels half as fun as this is... not in an FPS. It's the Patriot from MGS4 - an infinite-ammo SMG that plays the Snake Eater song when you shoot with it. Even then, however, it's just a less ludicrous (and thus less hillarious) version of the RYNO-V.

Why must the FPS genre be so damn boring now? No wonder I've played 100+ hours of Dragon Age (and its DLC / sequels) consecutively as of late...

To be fair, Metal Gear Solid is about as far removed from reality as a "realistic" game can possibly make itself.

OT: Oh boy, this is going to rustle up a bunch of feathers.

I agree about the whole Zangief thing. Especially because not only is it a Capcom franchise, but it's a series of fighting games. That have, multiple times, crossed over with the universes of other fighting games. Canon doesn't exactly seem all that important to me.

Not touching the Mario subject with a ten-foot pole though, because that's just a smoldering flame war begging to be lit.

Wreck-it Ralph: Zangief is in a Disney movie. Fuck, Nintendo has put one of their biggest icons in Disney movie. Let's think about that for a second.

Mario: All that Mario needs is perfect level design, which Nintendo always brings. You don't fix something that isn't broken and indeed you don't arbitrarily "improve" something that got it right the first time. There will NEVER be enough Mario. The face of gaming needs no breaks.

Django: It's awesome how Franco Nero from the original Django gets a cameo.

DC: I could care less; I actually think DC's character works fine in comics and cartoons, but not so well in film.

Batman: No, there is NEVER enough Batman. Dark Knight Rises is going to blow everything out of the water.

LostintheWick:
I bet Mario shows up in Wreck-it Ralph :)

He damn well better. I know there was official artwork of Ralph in a Mario color scheme.

I'm not really sure how Mario innovating for 20 years and having a higher record of innovation than COD or Madden is a good justification for it stagnating now.

This might be because I live in a country that isn't America.. But when I saw the Django Unchained trailer, all I thought was: "Quentin Tarantino doing revenge movie... AWESOME!" I didn't think of the reverse-racisme (for lack of a better word).

So now I'm looking forward to see wether it is "just" gonna be a revenge/grindhouse cowboy movie with the slave ownership as a framing device, or if there are gonna be some hints towards modernday social relationships between black people and white people.
With Tarantine bouth could happened :)

It must be sad to not have a heart, but there's certainly no other explanation for not being able to enjoy a Mario game.

Nate Corran:
I am a great lover of Batman, but I do feel he gets WAY over used (and over crapped) because he is the ONLY FUCKING DC character who is both interesting and not a Red and Blue flying deus ex machina. So I agree with that point to an extent.

You do realize that Batman is also a Deus Ex Machina character?

Sis:
Haven't we reached the point where maybe, just maybe, we've seen enough Mario for a while?

NO! THERE CAN NEVER BE ENOUGH MARIO!!!!!!!!

Bigwig:
Up until Galaxy each new Mario game was different enough from the last for the series to remain fresh. But look at the series now: New Super Mario Bros, New Super Mario Bros 2, New Super Mario Bros Wii, New Super Mario Bros Wii U...all these games look, sound, and play essentially the same. Why should Mario get a free pass to stagnate just because it innovated in the past? There have been 5 modern CoD games, and with 4 NSMBs Mario is quickly catching up.

True, but, you are forgetting Super Mario 3D Land, which came after Super Mario Galaxy 2. There is still a ton of creation and innovation going on in Mario, but I will admit, New Super Mario Bros. 2 and Wii U Feel like Quick Buck titles. And Unlike COD, which basically releases 1 every year, Mario still takes a couple of years to make games for (The Main Series), although I am getting a little worried Nintendo is releasing Main Mario games with an increased rate. Hopefully that'll be a phase.

Wargamer:

NinjaDeathSlap:
Well perhaps there are people out there who would consider "A triple-barrel gatling gun where each barrel is a six-barrel minigun" for example, to be the ludicrous, over designed bastard child of a frustrated and immature developer with a compensation complex, rather than entertaining. Just sayin'.

Let's just assume for a moment that I don't really care about modern guns (which I don't). Most FPS games have such boring, boring, BORING weapons. Not just in terms of what they do, but in terms of how they look. Watching modern shooter videos it gets hard to tell what game you're watching, let alone what everyone is armed with.

Can you honestly tell me that you're going to confuse and triple-linked minigun with any other weapon on the battlefield? No you are not! You are going to see that weapon and think "Oh shit he's got a Minigun On Steroids!"

Even from the player's perspective, that kind of design is welcome. Yes, it might function mechanically much like the M3&3/4 assault rifle, but visually you have a very distinct firing firing animation as all three sets of barrels rotate on their own axis, and then rotate around each other as well.

and this relates to what I was saying... how?

So a lot of shooters are samey these days. I won't argue with you there. All I'm saying is opinions on what does and doesn't look nice are opinions. So throwing around the words 'BORING BORING BORING' in caps doesn't really constitute a point. Where as some might think 'A minigun on steroids fucking sweet!', others might just go 'Really? Really now?'

omegawyrm:
It must be sad to not have a heart, but there's certainly no other explanation for not being able to enjoy a Mario game.

Wow, that is the most succinct explanation for hipster-hate of Mario EVER.

Zangief was a bad guy in the 1994 movie. Not that that is saying anything. At all. Oh, and it's funny when the "Game Overthinker" tells people they're overanalyzing a trailer. Especially considering the fact that one of your last GO episodes was ten minutes devoted to how irksome you found it that one of the talking heads in the Call of Duty commcercial was Oliver North.

Huh, I never thought about the dissonance between you loving old-school and hating Madden and FPS games. No, I don't really see the difference. You're paying for more levels of basically Super Mario 3, and CoD fans are paying to keep up with the online metagame. I'm with you on sports games, though; not like they can change the rules between installments.

You really couldn't make an entire episode about Tarantino's usage of black characters and the N-word? Couldn't talk about how Spike Lee pretty much told the press Tarantino wasn't allowed to use that word? I guess it would be stepping on the "Black Heimdall" episode's toes.

Yes, Bob, you know the big words to describe the literary analysis of the Brave trailer. It sounds like the noise of you trying to impress yourself. I'm kinda disappointed that the first Pixar movie with a female protagonist centers around a... princess. Just like she always is in animated movies. I sometimes get the feeling that if I were a girl who'd grown up with Disney movies, I'd feel like the lowest rung of the Indian caste system since I wasn't born into nobility.

It was interesting that you said "Arrow" looked terrible, then pointed to the possibility of Deathstroke, and then acted like that wasn't interesting either. Some sort of weird double misdirect.

As a Marvel zombie, it tickles me to know end that DC sucks so bad at adapting their work. Why is Batman their only marketable character? I bet it's because there are a lot of guys like me who think he's the only character they have who is interesting (though I will say that what I read of Geoff John's Green Lantern work would be really intersting to see in a series of animated movies).

Hey Bob, when will we have another episode in your Boston accent?

OT: I'm looking forward to both Brave and Wreck it Ralph now.

Can't wait to see "Wreck it Ralph".
looks awesome.

Sis:
Haven't we reached the point where maybe, just maybe, we've seen enough Mario for a while?

Frostbite3789:

Sis:
Haven't we reached the point where maybe, just maybe, we've seen enough Mario for a while?

Pretty much this.

And as a fan of the EA Sports NHL franchise, I think it's asinine to talk about how much Mario has innovated and then say those games haven't innovated at all. It just comes off as super pretentious.

"Yeah. I grew up with the NES. My franchise of choice is better than YOUR franchise of choice."

I grew up with an NES too. I'm just not a pretentious ass about it.

I agree completely with both points made. I am not a Mario fan, nor a Call of Duty fan, nor a NHL/NBA/Fifa fan. I own 2 Mario for the Nintendo DS, and I have 2 Call of Duty games for the X-Box 360, but no sports games, because sports games don't interest me. However, Moviebob does his usual worst when it comes to his opinion. Making it appear as fact, instead of just opinion.

I like to keep up on gaming literature, and thus, I read a lot of reviews. What I see every time I read a review of a new Fifa is that they did include new things, and they have improved on old things that were not functioning properly.
Seriously, you can't expect Fifa to go from 2D, to 3D, then back to 2D and then once more in a 2D/3D kinda style. It works for Mario, not for a sports game. Mario is a fantasy game, so they can do whatever the hell they want with it, create whatever world/area and fill it up with all sorts of weird creatures.
Fifa is Fifa, football is football and there are only so many ways you innovate with it.

Hoo boy. When will the Internet ever learn not to deride things until after they are shown? All this preemptive "it looks terrible" talk serves no purpose.

Yes, Beware the Batman is year one with the lesser known villains, but so what? Wait until you see a few episodes before you piss all over it.

Isn't Zangief's non-villainy sort of the point of what he's saying? He's an opponent, an obstacle for the player, but he's not necessarily a villain. A "bad guy" but not a bad guy.

I did laugh when you mentioned watching the wreck it ralph trailer a few dozen times because...well...I have. I actually have the tab pulled up for it right now.

I admit I haven't bought a Mario game in a while, and while I do love 2D platforms, I'm gonna pass on this one.

However, I am a huge fan of the Paper Mario series (except Super...) and I'll certainly be picking that one up.

I'm really excited for Brave, but as crazy as this sounds, I will not be watching it. One of my best friends and I were going to watch it together, but she suddenly had to move to California. So we're both going to buy it when it comes out on DVD and watch it then.

I'm going to give Arrow an honest shot. I admit I probably won't like it, but I'm open to the idea.

And if you haven't already...you're gonna get a lot of flak for bashing COD here >_>

I personally don't care seeing as how most of this show, particularly the junk drawer episodes are...yeah, opinion shows.

Not gonna go for the FPS vs Retro button Bob likes to bash, just point out something interesting

In that Wreck-It Ralph trailer, in the group therapy there seems to be Mortal Kombat characters (Namely Kano and I think smoke) while this would immediately have a knee jerk reaction "Violent characters into a disney movie?!" on second thought, consider they starred alongside DC characters, so many WB still has the license to use them?

Also, Batman is the only interesting DC character, the rest are Demi-gods walking amongst mere mortals, Over-powered fantasy characters that even the Bat himself falls prey too in "Being able to plan for everything" trap.

Yes, I prefer Marvel characters, they have tend to have a Set power, and stick to it.

(note, I'm not massively into comics so I don't have a ton of lore, just working off what I've seen)

MB202:
The thing with the Mario side-scrollers and all the "mainstream" Mario games are all pretty much made in-house by Nintendo EAD, Nintendo EAD Tokyo, etc., while the Mario spin-offs are made by different divisions of Nintendo or by straight-up third party developers. Is it really that much of a stretch to ask Nintendo maybe, just made, to add a bit more variety to their own games that they, themselves, make? Like another Super Mario Bros. 2-style game? That would be sweet...

Also, who's the Beholder?

I guess with SMB2 style you mean more playabe characters?
But then, we can see the ill-fated road the Sonic franchise has taken with completely asinine and unlikable character that got their own major playmodes in games and we saw how THAT turned out. Frankly, seeing how Waluigi hasn't still be euthanized, I'm happy that Nintendo is focusing their core Mario games on just Luigi and the other one.

We get several Mario games but we get several Batman Comics, Movies, Shows and Games

*sigh* So you admit that Zangief is not really a villain outside of "Hey, he's the Russian Guy!" and go on to list many other characters in the scene with him that are notable villains in their games but don't see why giving Zangief possibly the main speaking role in that scene is stupid? Sorry, Bob, that's not nit picking. That's just not being blinded by "Durrr, videogame characters in a movie!"

stueymon:
Also, Batman is the only interesting DC character, the rest are Demi-gods walking amongst mere mortals, Over-powered fantasy characters that even the Bat himself falls prey too in "Being able to plan for everything" trap.

Yes, I prefer Marvel characters, they have tend to have a Set power, and stick to it.

(note, I'm not massively into comics so I don't have a ton of lore, just working off what I've seen)

Uh, I could be wrong here, but I'm pretty sure DC has a TON of non-powered characters. Wildcat, Green Arrow, Huntress, the entire bat-family, Shining Knight, and Manhunter just off the top of my head. And that's not even counting "suit" characters.

Wasn't Zangief actually protrayed as a bad guy in much of the alternative media? I could be wrong, but...It doesn't seem that far off.

As for Mario...lolinnovation. That's all that really needs to be said.

Green Arrow series? Is it really looking bad?

Also, we reached "enough Batman" years ago. However, Chris Nolan and the Arkham series may continue.

I'm one of the biggest fans of Rocksteady's Batman games ever (gold on all challenges, campaigns 100% many times over etc) and even I would hate to see them do another. I really hope that Ninja Turtles game rumor going around a while ago turns out to be true because if anyone can make a good Turtles game its them.

Likewise I'm not really excited for DKR, I'll go see it sure but eh I'm expecting another decent batman movie, nothing amazing. No more no less.

Wreck-it Ralph: How have I not heard of this before? Seriously I keep an eye out for this kind of stuff and this is the first I'm hearing about it. I'm definitely going to see that on release. Zangief is close enough to a "bad" guy (in that he opposed the primary protagonist) that I don't see the problem with the scene. Also even if it was the most horrible characterization of a character ever (it is not) it would still only be a drop of piss in a ocean of awesome.

Mario: I'm not even a fan of the Mario franchise (I enjoy socializing with friends while playing Mario Kart and that is about it) and I have to agree. Call of Duty is quite simply a one trick pony in it has no place to go except graphical updates/new stories. It has very little room to make leaps/iterations on game-play like Mario does and has. However people seem to like it enough to warrant spending money repeatedly on it which is fine. I'm just not somebody who is willing to spend money on either franchise.

Django: Yea thats going to be a bit controversial, but I don't see it making much impact on the news. Let it have its 15 minutes of fame and it will be out of everyone's mind almost immediately.

DC: That would be wonderful, but I don't think we'll see anything within the next few years. I'm hoping within the next decade they can effectively reproduce/adapt what Marvel is doing and make a working movieverse. What they have to do is not focus so much on the Superman/Batman powerhouse characters and bring to light some of the popular characters in the comics that the average person knows little about . Everyone knows the general information and background about Superman/Batman, but the average person will have little to no exposure to the likes of Martian Man-hunter, Zatanna, Captain Marvel, and so forth. Of course the most important thing is to simply make a good movie which they seem to need to work on.

Batman: Batman is currently the most easily adaptable figure in the DC franchise. He is as established as Superman, but allows for a more fluid/diverse portrayal. For example in games most characters (including Superman) have X abilities. Batman can have whatever the hell you want him to with his gadgets while at the same time realistically limiting the abilities for balance. He also is the only one who has had successful recent movie exposure. Personally I'm tired of Batman as well, but it is better than nothing.

Green Arrow/Arrow series: No comment

Speaking as a Nintendo guy, I only have one thing to say:

We can argue about how it's okay for Nintendo to make not one, but two more sidescrolling Mario games due to what they released prior to it (Mario 3D Land, Galaxy 2), how it's supposed to be a retro revival, or what have you, but let's look at the big picture (no pun intended), since it seems Bob is too fixated on Mario to care:

When it comes to trying to sell a console that's meant to compete with the 360 and PS3 hardware-wise and a handheld that promotes glasses-free 3D, you can't undermine your own efforts more than making another New Super Mario Bros. game. Seriously: at a glance, neither title looks like they couldn't have been done on any of Nintendo's previous consoles or handhelds. They use the same visual style, gameplay engine, and even the same assets and music.

In the end, New Super Mario Bros. U and New Super Mario Bros 2. (talk about being chronologically confused, shouldn't it be 4?) are only going to appeal to hardcore Mario fans and casual gamers (in other words, the same audience Nintendo was stuck with with the Wii). I bet there wasn't a single skeptical gamer that was convinced the Wii U was worth a buy when they saw New Super Mario Bros. U.

The prevalence of Batman wouldn't be so obvious if they could do anything with the other heros.

Wreck-It Ralph: If this was anyone besides Disney, I'd be a lot less confident this would work. Hell, even a couple years ago, I wouldn't be as confident.

Mario: Personally, I'm not the biggest fan of the "New Super Mario Bros" series. Don't get me wrong, they're great games and I'm getting the next two. The problem is it's like Nintendo is handing the people who bitch about them ammunition.

That being said, let's put this in a business perspective and consider the following:
1: You are now the executive at Nintendo.
2: Your company has posted it's first annual loss. EVER.
3: The 3DS had a very slow start at launch.
4: Sales of the 3DS skyrocketed when the new Mario games came out.
5: You are trying to avoid the bad launch the 3DS had, so you need a killer app right out the gate.
6: Mario games tend to be big sellers in Japan MONTHS after they've come out, and sell well in the US for a while as well.

It makes sense for Nintendo to have a sure-fire moneymaker with the new console. It might not be the game that moves the WiiU, but it's a nice thing to bolster up the "things WiiU has other systems don't" list along with Rayman Legends and Lego City.

Bob's fanaticism regarding a racist italian stereotype from the eighties went from being amusing to tedious to slightly creepy to pathetic. Overthinker indeed.

Yeah, this whole thing seems predicated on nostalgia for arcade games. And I fucking hated arcade games.

Sooo... yeah, thanks but no thanks Disney.

Batman talking to Martian Manhunter:
"Something tells me that you are not a threat, but remember this: I've got a 50 000 dollar chunk of a meteorite in case the red-blue boy from Metropolis acts up. For you I'll need a penny to buy a box of matches"

There might be a time, when there is enough Batman, but there will never be enough GOOD Batman.

Django Unchained: I personally can't wait to see what Fox News has to say about it. Considering they tried to convince everyone the Muppets was socialist propaganda, when they have something that can actually be controversial, who knows how insane they'll be?

Brave: I keep forgetting just how close to release this movie is. It just showed up out of nowhere for me, even if I knew about it for a while.

Batman: It really wouldn't be a problem... but these days Batman is the only DC hero who is getting any love at all. If you aren't Batman, you aren't being handled by people who give a shit.

Far as Batman goes. It all depends on how fresh and original the new movie will do at keeping the franchise relevant and still entertaining. If all goes well with Batman Rises then no people won't have had enough for at least another year or more.

Also I heard that even though the Green lantern movie bombed at the box office and could be considered a war crime if shown to prisoners, it made a lot of money on merchandise sales so how does that effect the possibilities of another movie?

Additionally. After seeing the mind blowing awesome IronMan movies where an innovative billionaire combines Lasers, Jet engines, Tank armor, Advanced A.I., and a lovably snarky wit into one sweet looking suit of armor the concept of a guy with a bow and arrow seems dated and impractical. Unless all the criminals only carry knifes and brass knuckles. I know the imagery of a bow is kinda sexy and romantic but it just isn't a very good weapon against guns and body armor.

Hold it right there bub, I mean Bob. What the Mario franchise has been doing isn't really innovation as much as it is polishing. Adding a world map screen here, some new powerups there, that sort of thing. But you know what? That's fine, Mario as a series is staying true to its core engagement: A 2D platformer in a whimsical world called the Mushroom Kingdom with power ups and possibly Yoshi.

When the Mario series has radically changed its formula in recent years --say with 4 player co-op or 3d gameplay, that water gun from Sunshine or all those stupid sports games with the Mario brand stapled to them- it gets in the way of what's actually fun about the series.

The Call of Duty and various EA sports franchises have likewise stayed true to their core engagements, namely shooting people in different colored uniforms or tackling people in different colored uniforms. While that particular engagement may not appeal to you, its churlish to dismiss those games for staying true to their core engagement, whether or not that engagement appeals to you.

Neither Mario, nor Call of Duty, nor Madden is moving the industry forward these days, those games can have every right to exist, and may well be fun to play; but let be honest, none of them are likely to move the medium forward.

I guess what I'm saying is curb your enthusiasm.

Re. Batman: Have I had enough? I'll tell you when I've had enough

Oh but there will be more Batman... Arkham City left countless spoilers to there next game like they did in Asylum.

Non-fans will always feel that the series that they don't care about to begin with, is "always all the same". As long as you are not enthusiastic about the theme, you can downplay any fresh content as "just new levels" or "just a texture-swap", or "yet another [genre name], but this time it takes place in..."

And that's OK. No franchise should be expected to be so innovative that even non-fans can appreciate it from a distance, as Mario did with all the different genres. If Mario fans think that it should stick to 2D platforming, it's OK. 2D platforming is not a "formula", it's a legitimate genre, and it's OK for a franchise to only innovate inside the limits of this genre, with new level designs, power-ups, features, etc.

And COD shouldn't be expected to be anything more than a military FPS with the occasional tweaks or setting changes, either.

The question is whether established franchises are too prominent compared to new ones, and whether it's ok that they are so popular that they represent all of gaming. Maybe it would be healthier for gaming if COD and Mario would both become niches, but there, it's in their nature to stick to their basic genres, and there is nothing wrong with that.

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