Finer Points Part Three

Finer Points Part Three

Reviewing the concept of Layers for the interaction of continuous effects.

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all this clarification is making my head spin.... or maybe it's the Bourbon

Most confusing, let's see here...
Humility and Opalescence with a second Opalescense. Of course, that was before layers were in effect.

Encaen:
OP

I'm not sure if it's just the fact that I'm currently using Internet Explorer (school computer! Don't shoot me!), but it appears that you aren't using the mouseover text the Escapist totally added. If it's just my browser, then just ignore me while I place my pants on my head.

Anyways, thank you for the clarification! I still don't totally understand it though (I hear these things are complicated), and will have to continue to defer to my judge friends when playing EDH.

unless I'm wrong here, you wouldn't be able to cast Turn to Frog on Dungrove Elder because of the hexproof... right?

zeekyle:
unless I'm wrong here, you wouldn't be able to cast Turn to Frog on Dungrove Elder because of the hexproof... right?

Touche! Let's say you cast Turn to Frog on their creature and they Redirect it instead. :D Good catch!

Zen Toombs:

Encaen:
OP

I'm not sure if it's just the fact that I'm currently using Internet Explorer (school computer! Don't shoot me!), but it appears that you aren't using the mouseover text the Escapist totally added. If it's just my browser, then just ignore me while I place my pants on my head.

Anyways, thank you for the clarification! I still don't totally understand it though (I hear these things are complicated), and will have to continue to defer to my judge friends when playing EDH.

That's weird, it's working for me in both IE and FF. I suspect I'd have an angry tech team on my hands if I didn't utilize the mouseover images after they put in all the work to implement them!

Encaen:
That's weird, it's working for me in both IE and FF. I suspect I'd have an angry tech team on my hands if I didn't utilize the mouseover images after they put in all the work to implement them!

*places pants on head*

Anyways, thank the tech team for the mouseover text! Even though it doesn't seem to be working for me at the moment, it was a great addition to the site. ^_^

Have you been keeping up with the M13 spoilers?

Hexellent!

Edit: Sorry for the low content post, folks. Sometimes even the staff forgets ... :-D

Draconalis:
Have you been keeping up with the M13 spoilers?

Yessir. I keep an eye on the MTG Salvation Spoiler feed once things start getting revealed. I'm really liking the Blue Legend, and the whole cycle of mono-colored legends for that matter. Really excited to see Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker in Standard, too!

Also, Exalted is back which makes me happy. I played a Bant Exalted deck for a while with Alara and it was a ton of fun. They've put it into Black now, though, which seems weird.

What about yourself? Anything catch your eye?

Mike Kayatta:
Hexellent!

Oi! No hypocrisy! Give yourself a warning!

Encaen:
What about yourself? Anything catch your eye?

Sublime Archangel. That bitch is NUTS! She's a "Gives everything exalted" lord that has exhaled... so by herself she's a 4/3 flyer that attacks for 5 for 4 mana.

I want to make a white beat down that goes like this.

Turn 1 champion of perish
turn 2 shrine of loyal legions
Turn 3 gather the towns folk, insert white one drop here
turn 4 Sublime Archangel
turn 5 gather the towns folk, pop the shrine attacks with the angel for 16 in the air.

If they make a white 1 drop exalted, that's what I would replace champion with... because then she can hit for 17 or 18 if I can get the other one drop to be him too.

I have a question about Turn to Frog... I've always been confused by it. Does the target creature lose all abilities permanently, as indicated by taking a literal approach to the rules text? If not, it should read, "Until end of turn, target creature loses all abilities and becomes a 1/1 blue Frog". The wording makes all the difference, at least to me... =/

zeekyle:
unless I'm wrong here, you wouldn't be able to cast Turn to Frog on Dungrove Elder because of the hexproof... right?

You can cast it on your own Dungrove Elder because hexproof only applies to spells and abilities that your opponents control. If Turn to Frog is a spell you cast yourself, the Elder will be affected normally.

CounterAttack:
I have a question about Turn to Frog... I've always been confused by it. Does the target creature lose all abilities permanently, as indicated by taking a literal approach to the rules text? If not, it should read, "Until end of turn, target creature loses all abilities and becomes a 1/1 blue Frog". The wording makes all the difference, at least to me... =/

zeekyle:
unless I'm wrong here, you wouldn't be able to cast Turn to Frog on Dungrove Elder because of the hexproof... right?

You can cast it on your own Dungrove Elder because hexproof only applies to spells and abilities that your opponents control. If Turn to Frog is a spell you cast yourself, the Elder will be affected normally.

As to the Dungrove, I edited that after zeekyle pointed out the error. :) The original had the Opponent targeting the Dungrove, which is bad.

As to Turn to Frog, the entire effect lasts until End of Turn. Grammatically speaking, you may be correct but the intent certainly seems to be simply applying the whole of the spell's effect until EOT.

Draconalis:
Sublime Archangel. That bitch is NUTS! She's a "Gives everything exalted" lord that has exhaled... so by herself she's a 4/3 flyer that attacks for 5 for 4 mana.

I want to make a white beat down that goes like this.

Turn 1 champion of perish
turn 2 shrine of loyal legions
Turn 3 gather the towns folk, insert white one drop here
turn 4 Sublime Archangel
turn 5 gather the towns folk, pop the shrine attacks with the angel for 16 in the air.

If they make a white 1 drop exalted, that's what I would replace champion with... because then she can hit for 17 or 18 if I can get the other one drop to be him too.

Yes! I'd love to see an Exalted 1-drop for this set, maybe they'll reprint Akrasan Squire! A token strategy with Sublime Archangel definitely seems like the way to go. Increasing Devotion on turn 5 seems pretty good here as well.

Encaen:

Yes! I'd love to see an Exalted 1-drop for this set, maybe they'll reprint Akrasan Squire! A token strategy with Sublime Archangel definitely seems like the way to go. Increasing Devotion on turn 5 seems pretty good here as well.

You wouldn't have the mana to pop the shrine, which by that point would have 6 charge counters on it making 6 Myrs. For max bang for your buck, the shrine is the way to go. Increasing Devotion might be a decent mid game plan though for instant buffs later, or an alternative when Scars drops.

Encaen:
Snip

So...

Know what helps out my white beatdown deck idea?

I always (well mostly) enjoy reading these articles, but every time they make me want to play magic again less. Either we never bothered with rules back in '97, or things were much simpler.

Draconalis:
snip

She isn't legendary either, so you drop another and your power doubles.

Odric, Master Tactician is also looking really good for my white deck.

Just when I think I'm coming to terms with the rules of Magic, I learn about something like this and that notion flies right out the window.

Excuse me while I go try and work this out. *insert brain pain here*

Actually, that's not true; you explain the concept VERY well, I just don't know HOW I'm going to remember this come game time. Anyone found an easy mnemonic or something?

Ring of Kalonia is close to a reprint of rancor/loxodon warhammer. Of all the rings, probably most worth running outside its color. Hello Exalted.

Speaking of which. Exalted in black. I believe that's a new one.

Slycne:
She isn't legendary either, so you drop another and your power doubles.

Odric, Master Tactician is also looking really good for my white deck.

Oh believe me... that little fact did not elude me :D

I like Odric... but he seems better for white and green decks that can be more tricksie

Case in point, you can get deathtouch in green.

Draconalis:

Slycne:
She isn't legendary either, so you drop another and your power doubles.

Odric, Master Tactician is also looking really good for my white deck.

Oh believe me... that little fact did not elude me :D

I like Odric... but he seems better for white and green decks that can be more tricksie

Case in point, you can get deathtouch in green.

True, though the bane of most white weanie decks is the game dragging out and big blockers hitting the board. Odric is essentially free unblockable every turn for any kind of token generation or flood of small creatures decks.

Slycne:
True, though the bane of most white weanie decks is the game dragging out and big blockers hitting the board. Odric is essentially free unblockable every turn for any kind of token generation or flood of small creatures decks.

Ah, true. I hadn't thought about "You control the blocks" in terms of "No one should block this turn"

Pretty good... I'll have to keep that in mind.

The real limit on Odric is the three other attacking creatures thing. Other than that its basically "creatures you control are unblockable and have provoke". Not actually provoke, but pretty close.

Odric does go against the grain of exalted, but when most of your exalted is tied to Sublime Archangel, that probably won't hinder you much. Flood weenies, win with Odric or Sublime.

Also, supposedly they are straight up reprinting rancor. XD

Encaen:
Quoting for attention grabbing PMs

Slycne:
Same as above

The new Lillina.... Buh...?

image

Her ultimate.... but the time you can get it off... you have 7 land already... why do you need 28 mana in standard black?!

I just... don't understand.

Draconalis:

Encaen:
Quoting for attention grabbing PMs

Slycne:
Same as above

The new Lillina.... Buh...?

image

Her ultimate.... but the time you can get it off... you have 7 land already... why do you need 28 mana in standard black?!

I just... don't understand.

I have to assume they're going to give us some variety of mana sink for this. Liliana's Shade is a good start, though not terribly exciting. Maybe they're reprinting Drain Life or something and we're just going to be able to win on the spot?

Also of note, Rancor is apparently confirmed!

Draconalis:
snip

Well disregarding deck restrictions, you can cast everyone's favorite (and being reprinted) "I'm an ultra efficient CMC vampire" seven times. Vampire Nighthawk

Encaen:

I have to assume they're going to give us some variety of mana sink for this. Liliana's Shade is a good start, though not terribly exciting. Maybe they're reprinting Drain Life or something and we're just going to be able to win on the spot?

Also of note, Rancor is apparently confirmed!

Of note... she pulls a swamp, not a basic swamp... so in theory you can pull any of your land types that share swamp. splash in a little red and you can fireball to the face for 24!

We'll just have to wait and see... but her ultimate just feels.... off.

Slycne:

Draconalis:
snip

Well disregarding deck restrictions, you can cast everyone's favorite (and being reprinted) "I'm an ultra efficient CMC vampire" seven times. Vampire Nighthawk

I hate vampires... like REALLY hate vampires thanks to Anne Rice... anything vampire related simply earns my scorn...

And even I can't help but use the nighthawk....

NIGHTHAWK! WHY YOU SO GOOD!?

 

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