Escapist Podcast: Bonus: Game of Thrones-Cast - Season 2 Wrapup

Bonus: Game of Thrones-Cast - Season 2 Wrapup

Wherein we discuss all the plot changes from the book in the last two episodes.

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(Don't watch the show, but enjoy listening to you guys anyway...)

On killing characters early... two possible reasons: too many characters to service properly. Or... the actors were an issue and it was decided to write them out...

I was seriously annoyed about the lack of the reeds, but then I found out that they haven't been written out of the show. The plan is to introduce them into season 3, the reeds are my favourite characters, it was sad that they weren't in it

I want to touch on the last point, Martin has acknowledged in the past that he knows he is slow at writing and that he could possibly die before finishing the books. So it could be possible that he has an outline of where he wants the books to go and a plan for another author to come in and finish the books on his behalf. It won't be the same, but it also won't be left without an ending.

I don't know if I mentioned this, I have not read the books, I got the audio books, just because I seem to enjoy audio books because I can put them on my smart phone and just have them anywhere. Roy Dotrice who is the Wildfire Pyromancer in the TV series is the narrator(except book 4). He was originally cast to play Pycelle but got seriously ill before filming, that also why he didn't narrate book 4.

I didn't find Book 1 to overly confusing with the names and locations. I didn't have the luxury of going back like you can in the book and no glossary/index. The only thing I really looked up on the internet during that was a map. The map was helpful.

I loved the question regarding who should have won the blackwater battle, but in my mind, even when I read the book for the first time, there was no other possible outcome than victory for King's Landing because it's so very important for Tyrion as a character to win.

All of Tyrion's character is based on his wits, his intelligence and the Blackwater was the proving moment for him, he managed to defeat an experienced and proven battle commander (Stannis) without any previous experience in warfare, with very limited resources and with a rag-tag group of defenders (since it's stated that the gold cloaks were not really soldiers, just militias, and most of them green at that) by using his mind, by out-thinking Stannis and by coming up with very clever strategies. The Blackwater was not about the Lannisters winning, but about Tyrion winning.

Not winning the Blackwater would have completely destroyed Tyrion as a character, not to mention that Stannis' defeat actually reinforces his own characterization - the drama of being caught between his lawful right and duty to rule (and his incredible rigidity concerning law and duty) and his lack of resources to claim the throne that pushes him to adopt Mellisandra's Red God and unsavoury witchcraft.

At one point Martin said if he dies, the books go with him. And this will probably happen. He has shown very little interesting in actually writing his books.

But I hear HBO knows the ending... so perhaps we will have to settle for just the show?

Anyway...

Good podcast, I really enjoyed hearing the differing opinions concerning the show.

The whole Xaro thing kind of baffles me. In the book he tries to marry Dany because their culture has a custom where the bride and groom may ask a gift of the other, and he was planning on getting a dragon. Dany figures this out, says no, Xaro says scram, and they leave. And in the book he was clearly gay, which was meant to emphasised that his interest in Dany was purely for dragon gain.

Oh and of course I rooted for the Lannister's at the battle, at least I did when I was reading it. Tyrion kicks ass, I didn't want him to lose his head.

Ah well, time for another wait.

Oh and am I the only one who really didnt like how they made the Others?

Ramith:

Oh and am I the only one who really didnt like how they made the Others?

Nope. Really didn't like it either. They are portrayed as graceful, confident, almost beautiful in the book, with very strange shimmering, mercury-like armour that further emphasized their strangeness.

Now they look like Kain from the Legacy of Kain games. Oh well, very minor thing to be honest, don't care about it.

As a book reader whose favourite book series of all time is ASOIAF, I strongly feel that show watchers shouldn't read the books, and I only need one reason for that. There are thousands - literally thousands - of fantastic books. On the other hand, there are very, very few fantastic TV series.

The experience of reading the books for the first time, and having everything that happens come at you new and fresh - that's an uncommon experience, but it's not rare. Having that same experience with the TV show is extremely rare. Like, platinum enameled moon rock rare. There's really nothing like it.

Basically, if you read the books first, you are cheating yourself out of a truly unique experience, whereas if you watch the TV series first, you are cheating yourself out of an experience that - while fantastic - is essentially findable elsewhere.

IRBaboon:
I was seriously annoyed about the lack of the reeds, but then I found out that they haven't been written out of the show. The plan is to introduce them into season 3, the reeds are my favourite characters, it was sad that they weren't in it

I never understood the fuss people kicked up about this. The Reeds do practically nothing (at least up until AFFC, I haven't read ADWD yet), so unless they, I don't know, single-handedly slay a million white walkers or something (if they do, for the love of god don't tell me), I have no idea why so many people give a damn about them.

VladG:
I loved the question regarding who should have won the blackwater battle, but in my mind, even when I read the book for the first time, there was no other possible outcome than victory for King's Landing because it's so very important for Tyrion as a character to win.

I agree it was always going to be Tyrion, but I didn't put as much thought into it as you; I just figured that, considering how much of the books was dedicated to describing Tyrion's preparation, and how comparatively little was used to describe Stannis's, it would be very anticlimactic if Stannis won.

Ramith:
Oh and am I the only one who really didnt like how they made the Others?

I didn't either, but I get the feeling you didn't like how they looked, while I didn't like the fact that they were entirely CGI. It made for one hell of a season finale, but it's going to make any more scenes with them crazy expensive, and the show is costly enough as is.

Ramith:
At one point Martin said if he dies, the books go with him. And this will probably happen. He has shown very little interesting in actually writing his books.

But I hear HBO knows the ending... so perhaps we will have to settle for just the show?

Anyway...

No. That is just flat out wrong. Martin loves writing these books. Watch some interviews with him, he is really enthusiastic about this series. Yes if he dies they will with him, but he is currently writing the final two books in the series and he shows no sign of stopping. He is very interested in writing the series. In the worst possible case then yes the series could only end in the HBO series, the producers of which do know the ending of the series.

Also, I loved Feast for Crows and thought it was a great addition to the series. Yes, it may have been a whole book devoted to a bunch of new characters but it have the audience an entirely new viewpoint after the delightfully epic but admittedly exhausting Storm of Swords. Watching Cersei slowly spiral downward in her role as Queen Regent was quite cathartic to read after knowing how evil and conniving she was throughout the series. Also, the entirety of the Iron Islands series of chapters was increasingly fun to read, especially through the eyes of Asha and Aeron Damphair only to also be introduced to the frightening Euron Greyjoy and learning the implications of his return. The storyline I thought was most enlightening though was the Dorne story wherein the significance of the machinations of Prince Doran Martell and its ties to the overall machinations involving Dany and Viserys and thus the larger plot to mess with the succession of the Iron Throne was revealed. The Martells have a higher significance to the main story than first thought and we needed Feast for Crows to help us see that.

Overall, I enjoyed the podcast even if I disagree with a lot of what you guys were saying. I look forward to hearing more of these when we finally get into the epic Storm of Swords.

Susan.... If your favorite detail that was omitted was the chain....

<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3

Also... I was pissed about that too.

Does anyone else hear a strange reverb after the first break?

The escapist should read its own articles :P http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/117511-Game-of-Thrones-Season-3-Details-Surface Jojen and Meera Reed will turn up next season, I think to add them this season would've been crazy because they just had too many story arcs to deal with if you haven't read the books its a lot to take in. I imagine they'll turn up at the start of next season.

I've been waiting for ages for this podcast and now it comes on the same day I have my roleplay. Boo.
Still, something to look forward to tomorrow.

I really enjoyed the bonus podcasts, even if I found the show to be something of a let down this season.

A moment I really enjoyed in episode nine -- which was easily my favourite episode from this season -- that wasn't mentioned in the cast was the interaction between Bronn and the Hound. It's a scene that wasn't in the books, but felt perfect.

Ramith:
Oh and am I the only one who really didnt like how they made the Others?

I liked thier appearance hear better than in episode one of the first season, but they're nothing like the image of the Others that I have in my head.

Mr Thin:

IRBaboon:
I was seriously annoyed about the lack of the reeds, but then I found out that they haven't been written out of the show. The plan is to introduce them into season 3, the reeds are my favourite characters, it was sad that they weren't in it

I never understood the fuss people kicked up about this. The Reeds do practically nothing (at least up until AFFC, I haven't read ADWD yet), so unless they, I don't know, single-handedly slay a million white walkers or something (if they do, for the love of god don't tell me), I have no idea why so many people give a damn about them.

I've been rather annoyed regarding the missing Reeds, but I hadn't really considered why.

Part of it, I think, is that the Reeds are more or less genuinely good people, and A Clash of Kings was full of horrible bastards. It was nice to occasionally get a break from all the really unlikable jackholes and get to spend time with characters who are a bit more likeable. Also, Bran isn't really all that interesting on his own.

Evilproduct:

Ramith:
At one point Martin said if he dies, the books go with him. And this will probably happen. He has shown very little interesting in actually writing his books.

But I hear HBO knows the ending... so perhaps we will have to settle for just the show?

Anyway...

No. That is just flat out wrong. Martin loves writing these books. Watch some interviews with him, he is really enthusiastic about this series. Yes if he dies they will with him, but he is currently writing the final two books in the series and he shows no sign of stopping. He is very interested in writing the series. In the worst possible case then yes the series could only end in the HBO series, the producers of which do know the ending of the series.

Also, I loved Feast for Crows and thought it was a great addition to the series. Yes, it may have been a whole book devoted to a bunch of new characters but it have the audience an entirely new viewpoint after the delightfully epic but admittedly exhausting Storm of Swords. Watching Cersei slowly spiral downward in her role as Queen Regent was quite cathartic to read after knowing how evil and conniving she was throughout the series. Also, the entirety of the Iron Islands series of chapters was increasingly fun to read, especially through the eyes of Asha and Aeron Damphair only to also be introduced to the frightening Euron Greyjoy and learning the implications of his return. The storyline I thought was most enlightening though was the Dorne story wherein the significance of the machinations of Prince Doran Martell and its ties to the overall machinations involving Dany and Viserys and thus the larger plot to mess with the succession of the Iron Throne was revealed. The Martells have a higher significance to the main story than first thought and we needed Feast for Crows to help us see that.

Overall, I enjoyed the podcast even if I disagree with a lot of what you guys were saying. I look forward to hearing more of these when we finally get into the epic Storm of Swords.

Trust me when I say I really want to believe this.

But actions speak far louder than words. I don't deny he loves his series with a passion, but when it comes time to buckle down and write, well his performance has been rather lackluster.

But nothing would make me happier than being proven wrong.

For the record I didn't mind Feast. But I thought Dance was pretty bad.

I love this podcast! It's great listening. I really like the dynamic between the four of you. Please don't change that for next season's podcasts.

As per your advice, I think I will read all the books in the break. Sadly, I have already had some of the major events spoiled.

Personally, I love A Feast for Crows (Book 4). Those are the characters I care most about, and I didn't find it boring at all.

Still, nice podcast.

She just really believe and have faith in the red god.

So I recently got my girlfriend to read G.o.T. We have the 1st season on bluray, we don't have HBO, but we considered getting it just for G.o.T. I am half way through the 4th book. But anyhow, here is the point of my expositioning:

So my girlfriend is makes all sorts of crazy guess about how Arya is going to join the Nights Watch and getting smug when I don't answer, thinking she is correct. Of course I know better, and I don't want to give away the ending. But sometimes I get a cruel satisfaction by letting her thinks she is correct with her crazy guesses. Is that wrong of me?

bdcjacko:
So I recently got my girlfriend to read G.o.T. We have the 1st season on bluray, we don't have HBO, but we considered getting it just for G.o.T. I am half way through the 4th book. But anyhow, here is the point of my expositioning:

So my girlfriend is makes all sorts of crazy guess about how Arya is going to join the Nights Watch and getting smug when I don't answer, thinking she is correct. Of course I know better, and I don't want to give away the ending. But sometimes I get a cruel satisfaction by letting her thinks she is correct with her crazy guesses. Is that wrong of me?

She'll enjoy the journey more if she takes it on her own. Let her be proven wrong or right without interference from you - it'll be more meaningful to her in the long run. If you happen to get some particular satisfaction along the way, no harm done. Just don't be a jerk and rub it in her face when she learns the sad truth.

I still wish Tyrion would win at something already. He's had scattered minor victories, but it broke my heart to see him swung way back down at the finale. I do so hope he works his way back up.
(Feel free to message me if he does, no need for major details)

I read the first book like 12 years ago, and back then, I thought it was 'just alright' (but then, fantasy isn't my genre). But when i heard the buzz the show was getting i bought it on Blu-ray. I honestly couldn't remember anything that happened except for bran being flung out a window and Ned getting killed before the end of the book.

Watched the show, loved it, watched it four times in as many months. Sometimes I just think that its... too good. So I decided to give the books a try. Part of me almost wishes i hadn't.

I haven't seen any of the second season yet (live in the UK, and don't watch TV) but I feel less and less enthused about the show the more I hear about it, and based upon the books themselves.

I try not to be very puritan about it, I'm aware that a lot of the stuff they have to leave out, I understand that. Changes that have been made I am happy to accept if they're for budgetry reasons. There are notable examples of this in season one. The dothraki hoarde not being 100,000 strong, for example. But its the changes that they make which don't seem to make any sense, because it wouldn't impact the budget. Case in point, as is brought up in this (and the previous) podcast about Jon releasing Ygritte. Letting her go isn't going to make a huge budgetary difference from her escaping, so why put it in? Not only does it undermine his character, but it also has a knock on effect for the rest of his arc. As Susan mentioned in the cast (and what it means in Wildling culture) is Ygritte would not be interested in Jon if he's an emo loser. In the book he captures her, and lets her go, which in their culture means he's worthy of having her. And his time with the wildlings is a constant source of torment for him because he feels like he is betraying his vows.

Likewise with Danys arc, it sounds like in the series they're padding it out (because yes, not a lot happens with her in the book), but having her dragons stolen when it wouldn't make any real budgetary difference to have her make the choice to see the undying... Nah, i just cant grasp how they're going to stick even loosly with some of the story arcs from the book.

Then again, considering everything that happens in Sotrm of Swords 9and how grand it all gets) I cant see the series lasting the full run. It will make me sad, but I think it'll get cancelled, because unless they do some major scaling down of things (which wont please the fans of the books or just the show itself) then its going to get way too expensive to make.

Susan Arendt:

bdcjacko:
So I recently got my girlfriend to read G.o.T. We have the 1st season on bluray, we don't have HBO, but we considered getting it just for G.o.T. I am half way through the 4th book. But anyhow, here is the point of my expositioning:

So my girlfriend is makes all sorts of crazy guess about how Arya is going to join the Nights Watch and getting smug when I don't answer, thinking she is correct. Of course I know better, and I don't want to give away the ending. But sometimes I get a cruel satisfaction by letting her thinks she is correct with her crazy guesses. Is that wrong of me?

She'll enjoy the journey more if she takes it on her own. Let her be proven wrong or right without interference from you - it'll be more meaningful to her in the long run. If you happen to get some particular satisfaction along the way, no harm done. Just don't be a jerk and rub it in her face when she learns the sad truth.

It is more of just how cocky she is when she made the prediction and is just so off. I am going to let her find out by watching/reading.

Team Joffrey here, with Tyrion mostly running things.

Does anyone else notice the similarities between Jon Snow and the Arthur legend? I couldn't help seeing it after watching King Arthur, the Clive Owen movie. He's with a small group of men beyond the wall, has a local love interest, and a rather nice sword. I don't read the books but I can guess where it might go from here. And now Kit Harrington is going to play the lead in a new Arthur movie. Typecast much?

where can i get those remix versions of the g.o.t. theme?

To be honest, I'm kind of interested to see what HBO do in terms of differences. I liked the books, but I felt like they got weaker as they went on. If the series followed the books then (for me at least, though I imagine many others too) I'd expect the quality to drop. By doing something different they can potentially make things better.

I know the books arn't finished, so it could be argued that I'm not seeing the whole story yet but... I've finished A Dance with Dragons and I still think that there needs to be a lot more books to get everything reconnected. And with a tv series, the longer it goes on, the harder it could be to attract new viewers. I don't believe the tv series will be able to follow the books, because I doubt the viability of a project of that scale. Because of this, it might be for the best if they can rewrite things into a different conclusion, rather than having the series stop short when the funding becomes unviable.

Edit: Not to say the later books are bad. I still really enjoyed them. It's more the expectation built up from previous books isn't fulfilled in later ones.

 

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