The Big Picture: Tropes vs. MovieBob

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PercyBoleyn:

Matt_LRR:
Thank christ you are not grand arbiter of what qualifies as "knowlegable".

Hey! I've got an idea! Let's ignore everything she's done up until now and focus on her credentials, I'm sure the fact that she has shown herself on numerous occassions to be pretty much clueless shouldn't factor into that.

Matt_LRR:
There's one person who's dug themselves into an embarassing hole here, and it sure as hell isn't Ms. Sarkeersian.

You're right, you did dig yourself into a whole.

What's funny is Matt_LRR has a lot more demonstrated expertise in making videos on the internet then you seem to, but you still have the right to complain about it on a message board.

PhiMed:
And yes, class privilege was predominant early in our society. Nobody is saying that class, race, health, even beauty privilege don't exist, and they have existed for centuries.

It's still predominant. Class privilege has existed since the dawn of society.

PhiMed:
But as bad as it was to be a poor serf man living at the whim of his feudal lord, it was WORSE to be a poor serf woman

It was? How so? The serf had to do an excruciating ammount of work every day and then go die in whatever war his liege started.

PhiMed:
And just as it's bad to be a short, gay, poor black man with a limp today, a short, gay, poor black woman with a limp is even more disadvantaged. It's how it all intersects.

A short, gay, poor black woman with a limp would have been just as disadvantaged as a short, gay, poor black man with a limp.

PhiMed:
And nobody has made any videos about the masculine issues yet. I'm just saying, there is a right way to go about doing a set of videos that is a COMPLEMENT and not trying to silence Sarkeesian, and then there is the douchebag misogynist way.

So basically, they video makers either glorify her or they're misogynistic pigs. How does that work exactly?

PhiMed:
It's cute that you think that I feel guilty about anything. Somebody doesn't understand privilege.

Men are not priviledged. In fact, women are more priviledged than us in every single way. A white woman born to a middle class family has much more chances to succeed in life than a white male born in the same family. A white woman on the streets has more chances of surviving than a white male on the streets.

In the past it was fairly similar. Go back a hundred years and women generally spent their time taking care of kids and doing household work whilst men were forced to work agonizing hours under the scorching son for hours on end. Men fought for women, hell entire wars were started over them. Imagine how many men died just for that. A woman could advance her social position by marrying a lord, a male could not advance his social position by marrying a lady.

Both genders had it bad and both genders had it good in one way or another. Both genders were subjugated by gender roles and it's only recently that females have managed to break free of it whilst males have remained trapped. Saying that men had it worse than women is simply wrong.

jmarquiso:

What's funny is Matt_LRR has a lot more demonstrated expertise in making videos on the internet then you seem to, but you still have the right to complain about it on a message board.

Complain about what?

WitherVoice:

As for wanting "normal" women in games, that's... a bit of a pipe dream. Successful games seem to need some manner of conflict in them, and "normal" people do terrible in conflicts, and in the end make for lousy protagonists, no matter their gender. Extraordinary people last longer. There are no unflatteringly flabby, out-of-shape office-working male protagonists in fiction, either. The quality of portrayal in men and women is about the same, but a functional yet not very GOOD portrayal of a woman gets you CRUCIFIED, but nobody bats an eyelid about a cardboard-cutout male stereotype parade. Simply put, the standards for writing women are unreasonable; there are not enough truly good writers out there to write the amount of stories humanity wants to be told.

Actually fiction evolved into putting normal people in extreme circumstances. Early mythology is ripe with characters being "the most beautiful" or "the strongest", and later on that changed to "guys just like you and I". Even John McClane's appeal was that he was a normal guy (albeit trained cop) against an extreme circumstances. One of the themes was an everyday concept of saving his failed marriage.

Normal people make better and more relatable protagonists. The latest E3 has shown (see "The Last of Us") that more grounded and realistic characters are coming, and we're going to see less muscular space marines.

castlewise:
I've got nothing against the Tropes Vs. Women thing and its the kind of thing that needs to be around. My only beef is that their "fixed" female characters were dumb. Why use Peach in overalls and Zelda with Link's sword and shield when you could use *actual* good female characters? They are much more rare than they should be, but they do exist.

She's twisting recognizable iconography. Something far more recognizable than the few strong female leads out there (Lara Croft).

Sexual Harassment Panda:

5ilver:
Darn, Moviebob, here I was thinking my opinion of you couldn't drop any lower.
Probably the most painful part of the clip was "women won't get a job because they look mediocre but men will because who cares about what men look like". Idk how it's like in the good ol us of a, but here in the EU, it's pretty much identical.
You don't look as fit as an underwear model(either male or female)? Gratz, you just lost out on a TON of job opportunities.

The entire thing just stank of double standards and white knight nonsense to me and I'm not even anti-feminist :(

Don't know about the example, but I agree with the sentiment.

Male distaste for feminists isn't a videogame based phenomenon, men aren't annoyed because women are lobbying for Lara to have smaller breasts. Believe it or not...it goes deeper.

I haven't watched much Feminist frequency, because...she seems like a bit of a prat, by my reckoning. I will plug girlwriteswhat as someone who speaks about gender issues that is worth listening to.

http://www.youtube.com/user/girlwriteswhat

She is awesome.

Indeed.

I don't have a problem with adressing Woman issues, what I have a problem with is that anything regarding Men is consistently ignored to promote female issues of far less importance.

vxicepickxv:
I'm not really sure what to say other than this is a very professional way of dealing with the subject at hand.

The next question is what do we do about it?

I don't think there is anything that mature people can do anything about. I suppose we can all try to teach children that they shouldn't judge a person's worth purely by looks. But this is a near-impossibility as it is human nature to find someone physically desirable and ignore their personality - to some degree.

However, this isn't to say that it's not completely impossible. A good start in destroying sexism forever lies within good parenting. As for the rest of us, we should endevour to avoid buying sexist things - as doing so only tells the businessmen that this is what we want.

Personally, I don't really have a massive problem with sexism in gaming. Most of it comes from 13 year old children - who quite frankly haven't been taught by their parents that spouting sexism, misogyny and acting like a dick has no place in a civilised society. (If I were to talk sexist rubbish at that age, I'd have been feeling the back of mum's hand.)

However, with more and more women making games these days, sexism will slowly go the way of the dinosaur. But this can be expedited by adding an auto-mute to the next console generation killing sexism born of the G.I.F.T.

But on the other hand, parents have to monitor what their little darlings are saying on their consoles - and if they say something sexist - they should get punished appropriately. (Not going to happen seeing how said parents are silly or lazy enough to get their tweenage kids 18 rated games.)

Gunner 51:

vxicepickxv:
I'm not really sure what to say other than this is a very professional way of dealing with the subject at hand.

The next question is what do we do about it?

I don't think there is anything that mature people can do anything about. I suppose we can all try to teach children that they shouldn't judge a person's worth purely by looks. But this is a near-impossibility as it is human nature to find someone physically desirable and ignore their personality - to some degree.

However, this isn't to say that it's not completely impossible. A good start in destroying sexism forever lies within good parenting. As for the rest of us, we should endevour to avoid buying sexist things - as doing so only tells the businessmen that this is what we want.

Personally, I don't really have a massive problem with sexism in gaming. Most of it comes from 13 year old children - who quite frankly haven't been taught by their parents that spouting sexism, misogyny and acting like a dick has no place in a civilised society. (If I were to talk sexist rubbish at that age, I'd have been feeling the back of mum's hand.)

However, with more and more women making games these days, sexism will slowly go the way of the dinosaur. But this can be expedited by adding an auto-mute to the next console generation killing sexism born of the G.I.F.T.

But on the other hand, parents have to monitor what their little darlings are saying on their consoles - and if they say something sexist - they should get punished appropriately. (Not going to happen seeing how said parents are silly or lazy enough to get their tweenage kids 18 rated games.)

Agreed. Bad Parenting is a big contributor to the Cesspool that is Xbox Live. What ever happened to being spanked when you did something wrong. If my mom or dad caught me saying Sexist or Obscene things I'd be sent to bed without dinner and a red arse.

jmarquiso:
-snip- Even John McClane's appeal was that he was a normal guy (albeit trained cop) against an extreme circumstances. One of the themes was an everyday concept of saving his failed marriage.

Normal people make better and more relatable protagonists. The latest E3 has shown (see "The Last of Us") that more grounded and realistic characters are coming, and we're going to see less muscular space marines.

Methinks you need a better example; there is nothing normal about John McClane. The normal thing to do in Die Hard 1 would be to get taken hostage, and in the events that would have played out in that case, DIE. Or get shot more or less immediately during attempt to be a hero. Possibly shooting one bad guy, or two. Cop or no cop. John McClane has gone through that same thing four times, suffering injuries on each occasion that would kill or incapacitate ANY HUMAN BEING long before the story is through.

The reason John McClane makes an awesome hero is not because he's normal, it's because he's ridiculously abnormal. The failing marriage thing is a trope all on its own.

I agree that there needs to be more female characters in gaming that are more than just a sex symbol (Not that theres anything wrong with a little cheesecake). But what I don't want is for all of them to be the generic "GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRLLLL POWAH" Archetype you see a lot on tv nowadays. I want them to be actual characters, not just cardboard cutouts.

MrMan999:

Gunner 51:

vxicepickxv:
I'm not really sure what to say other than this is a very professional way of dealing with the subject at hand.

The next question is what do we do about it?

I don't think there is anything that mature people can do anything about. I suppose we can all try to teach children that they shouldn't judge a person's worth purely by looks. But this is a near-impossibility as it is human nature to find someone physically desirable and ignore their personality - to some degree.

However, this isn't to say that it's not completely impossible. A good start in destroying sexism forever lies within good parenting. As for the rest of us, we should endevour to avoid buying sexist things - as doing so only tells the businessmen that this is what we want.

Personally, I don't really have a massive problem with sexism in gaming. Most of it comes from 13 year old children - who quite frankly haven't been taught by their parents that spouting sexism, misogyny and acting like a dick has no place in a civilised society. (If I were to talk sexist rubbish at that age, I'd have been feeling the back of mum's hand.)

However, with more and more women making games these days, sexism will slowly go the way of the dinosaur. But this can be expedited by adding an auto-mute to the next console generation killing sexism born of the G.I.F.T.

But on the other hand, parents have to monitor what their little darlings are saying on their consoles - and if they say something sexist - they should get punished appropriately. (Not going to happen seeing how said parents are silly or lazy enough to get their tweenage kids 18 rated games.)

Agreed. Bad Parenting is a big contributor to the Cesspool that is Xbox Live. What ever happened to being spanked when you did something wrong. If my mom or dad caught me saying Sexist or Obscene things I'd be sent to bed without dinner and a red arse.

As much as I dislike corporal punishment - but if used sparingly and wisely, I think it can work. Mostly because of the fear and embarrassment behind it.

But if used lazily and at the drop of a hat - the fear of it is gone along with the power it had. There's also the dangerous and moot point of where discipline ends and outright abuse begins. But I guess that's another discussion.

Gunner 51:

MrMan999:

Gunner 51:

I don't think there is anything that mature people can do anything about. I suppose we can all try to teach children that they shouldn't judge a person's worth purely by looks. But this is a near-impossibility as it is human nature to find someone physically desirable and ignore their personality - to some degree.

However, this isn't to say that it's not completely impossible. A good start in destroying sexism forever lies within good parenting. As for the rest of us, we should endevour to avoid buying sexist things - as doing so only tells the businessmen that this is what we want.

Personally, I don't really have a massive problem with sexism in gaming. Most of it comes from 13 year old children - who quite frankly haven't been taught by their parents that spouting sexism, misogyny and acting like a dick has no place in a civilised society. (If I were to talk sexist rubbish at that age, I'd have been feeling the back of mum's hand.)

However, with more and more women making games these days, sexism will slowly go the way of the dinosaur. But this can be expedited by adding an auto-mute to the next console generation killing sexism born of the G.I.F.T.

But on the other hand, parents have to monitor what their little darlings are saying on their consoles - and if they say something sexist - they should get punished appropriately. (Not going to happen seeing how said parents are silly or lazy enough to get their tweenage kids 18 rated games.)

Agreed. Bad Parenting is a big contributor to the Cesspool that is Xbox Live. What ever happened to being spanked when you did something wrong. If my mom or dad caught me saying Sexist or Obscene things I'd be sent to bed without dinner and a red arse.

As much as I dislike corporal punishment - but if used sparingly and wisely, I think it can work. Mostly because of the fear and embarrassment behind it.

But if used lazily and at the drop of a hat - the fear of it is gone along with the power it had. There's also the dangerous and moot point of where discipline ends and outright abuse begins. But I guess that's another discussion.

I never said corporal punishment should be used frequently. My point was that parents should discipline their kids for saying stupid shit. Pardon my french.

Bob talks about how you can demonstrate that absurd physical ideals in video games can actually ripple out and make it more likely that you don't get a job if you're not pretty enough, but the truth is that the opposite is true. HR departments are staffed primarily BY WOMEN, and if women are responding to any stupid, petty emotions rather than the criterion they're actually being paid to evaluate (which, let's be honest, is what the average office drone is going to do 9/10 regardless of sex), they're going to make sure the pretty women don't get the job so that there's less competition for whatever guy they want to have an office fling with. Also, the male unemployment rate is higher than the female, graduation rates at almost every level are higher for females than for males, and the male life expectancy is significantly lower than that of the female. Not related to anything Bob said explicitly, but definitely related to his implied "women have everything so much harder" tract. That's a popular narrative, but it is demonstrably true that men have it significantly worse in at least a few important ways.

Also, regardless of the merit of the video series itself, the fact is that the person receiving the funds for this kickstarter is demonstrably capable of making (and, via the YouTube Partners program, profiting from) these sorts of videos already, which raises the question as to where this money is actually going, especially since her method of fundraising has been extremely dishonest so far. She keeps complaining about all the trolls and talking about how discouraged she is because it turns out that people on the internet are jerks sometimes, but if she was actually offended by any of the comments she could've just deleted them. She was always in control here, and pretending that she's being victimized is dishonest...Although evidently also profitable.

longboardfan:

Finally, as ForeverPanadering said: "This is nothing but self-congratulating crap. We will learn nothing new from this series, nor will we get anything deeply analytical out of it. Its a waste of time and money."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igXz_hXKUcE&feature=plcp
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9mZgTgublaY&feature=plcp
http://www.youtube.com/watch?src_vid=9mZgTgublaY&v=kxWwPZI_4RQ&feature=iv&annotation_id=annotation_677377

This is the real criticism. But instead you whine about the 4chaner's. Bravo Moviebob, bravo.

If that was the real criticism, then the ones that did troll and use sexist and anti-semetic comments did a piss poor job of communicating.

longboardfan:

00Side Note00
Hey bob, speaking of unrealistic expectations, you tried dating recently? Sure there's Mario, but no one wants to DATE him.

I married a rather attractive woman and I'm not the ideal male in any way shape or form. So, stop trying to date superficial women.

To those here that think Sarkeesian and Bob are raising a fuss over nothing, I urge you to use your imagination for just a second and imagine the following situation. I know this is challenging since the straight white man never has to step into the shoes of "the other", because society has unjustly pandered only to his whims, but please, for the sake of argument:

What if, hypothetically, every single mainstream video-game and facet of gamer culture was from the cultural perspective of gay males? Say, for example, the gay male version of Bayonetta would be a game with a dashing straight guy constantly forced into awkward homoerotic situations, that can only gain superpowers by kissing other men, and that needs to rip his shirt off, wear assless leather pants, and put on a ball gag just to use his special attacks. Imagine that there is no opposite to that - if you want a game from a straight male perspective, you're better of with neutered stylized casual games. This approach would not only be oppressive to straight males, by assuming that they exist only for the pleasure of gay men, but also to gay males, by assuming every single one in the audience is an exploitative, sex-crazed fetishist.

That is how females feel when playing 90% of modern mainstream games. They have every right to demand to be included and equally represented.

Look, I realize there is no chance in Hell anyone is actually going to do this. But I want it on record that talking about the anti-semitist and blatantly misogynistic morons crapping all over her Kickstarter is not actually productive at all, except in that she could've deleted their comments but didn't because pretending to be a helpless victim has proven exceptionally profitable, and we should all stop pretending that the opinions of the anti-semitist pricks is actually relevant to anything at all. Those people are idiot trolls, and nobody thinks otherwise except their own number, who are idiot trolls whose minds cannot be changed anyway.

ACman:
snip

So basically, a bunch of strawmans and jabs at my mental health. And I thought teh trawlz were the bad guys.

WitherVoice:

jmarquiso:
-snip- Even John McClane's appeal was that he was a normal guy (albeit trained cop) against an extreme circumstances. One of the themes was an everyday concept of saving his failed marriage.

Normal people make better and more relatable protagonists. The latest E3 has shown (see "The Last of Us") that more grounded and realistic characters are coming, and we're going to see less muscular space marines.

Methinks you need a better example; there is nothing normal about John McClane. The normal thing to do in Die Hard 1 would be to get taken hostage, and in the events that would have played out in that case, DIE. Or get shot more or less immediately during attempt to be a hero. Possibly shooting one bad guy, or two. Cop or no cop. John McClane has gone through that same thing four times, suffering injuries on each occasion that would kill or incapacitate ANY HUMAN BEING long before the story is through.

The reason John McClane makes an awesome hero is not because he's normal, it's because he's ridiculously abnormal. The failing marriage thing is a trope all on its own.

Agreed, especially in the last three movies. However, what made Die Hard 1 appealing was John McClane walking on barefoot over broken glass. His only superhuman quality is determination - which is what made a hero. In the same world of idealized masculine heroes - see Rambo and Arnold - Bruce Willis was the closest thing to a regular joe. He fits the trope of "Badass Normal," btw. As for the injuries - none of that was abnormal for an action movie in the 80's. However, it was also shown that he had to suffer rather than as an immortal being.

Now, Die Hard 2-4 he was turned to as an extraordinary man. In the first one he was ordinary caught in an extraordinary situation.

You kinda missed the whole, criticisms versus 4chan'ers. Moviebob is paying attention to the Reddit and /b/chan bombs on her video instead of the actual problems with her methods, her attitude, and why/how she's doing this entire series. That's my problem with him right now. He's too focused on the people that Orbital Ion Cannon random websites for fun. They're the morons. Instead of ignoring them, we got a 6 minute video whining about how trolls are trolls.

You are a minority in dating. I could date non-superficial women, if they existed. That's not fair, they do exist, they're in their 40's and 50's. I want to date someone that isn't on the far end of menopause. Women that can breed care about looks. But hey, if you want to continue this, take it to the off topic channel and join the many many threads about fat unemployed gamers that can't get laid. I was referring to his comments about fat ugly gamers and how just because there's Mario that we should be happy that there is ONE not buff male in AAA video games.

Sounds good to me. If there's one developer that's doing sexes right, it's Bioware. FemShep is unique but not inferior to ManShep, and vice versa, and neither one is cut out for appearance.

It's the kind of approach most videogame dev's should take now and I do think us gamers need to stop expecting 10/10 bodies on female characters portrayed in a sexual way. It doesn't have to go away (see: Lollipop Chainsaw) because sometimes they're the centre-piece to the game, the whole point of it, but it doesn't ahve to be in 95% of all games ever made.

- 550+ comments in 17 hours? Holy crap, it's the fastest growing thread I've ever seen. Not only that but it's now one of the biggest... It seems that every single person on this entire site (and more) have come by to drop a comment or thought on the situation.

ACman:

PercyBoleyn:
You people and your strawmans. The reason Anita's "project" garnered this much hate in the first place isn't because the gaming community is full of sexist misogynistic pigs, like Anita and certain gaming "journalists" would have you believe, but because she asked for six thousand fucking dollars to produce a six part video series of her standing in front of a camera and talking about shit she doesn't know jack about.

The magic word here is money. She doesn't need equipment, she isn't making a feature length documentary, she's not flying in random developer Y to interview and she has zero fucking knowledge on the subject of sexism in videogames as evidenced by her "Bayonetta" critique. She got 160k to stand in front of a camera and talk, something which numerous other YouTubers in the past have been able to do without resorting to scamming their fucking audience. But you guys keep white knighting for her, I'm sure she'll eventually show a tit or something.

"WAAAHHHHH, someone one whose opinions I don't like got money from people who agree with her opinions and I don't like that."

"Therefore I think it's totally legitimate that the internet spammed her with antisemitic, sexist taunts and threats of rape and changed the links in here wikipedia page to pornsites and the text to more antisemitic, sexist taunts."

"My poor Bayonetta recieved negative critism from her for it's portrayal of women. I disagree with her opinion because it's wrong because I say so."

"I have no idea how much it costs to produce video but if she was able to produce YouTube videos in front of her webcam before why would she need money to produce videos now? "

"I have never heard of video production costing money because I am retarded."

"Asking for $6000 to produce videos is obviously as scam because she was able to produce videos before."

"Tim Schafer was able to produce Brütal Legend 3 years ago and asked for $400,000 to produce games now. I have no problem with this and it is not a scam."

"I totally don't have a double standard. Did I mention that I'm retarded?"

"Scott Bromely from the Comedy Button who made several podcasts before the Comedy button asked for money to do another podcast via a kickstarter and got $40,000 but thats okay because I don't disagree with his opinions."

"Did I mention that I don't have a double standard and am completely retarded?"

"DUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUURRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

"Sorry my brain does that sometimes. Jesus you guys are so stupid for giving her money, and I'm not stupid at all, DUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUURRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! just completely retarded."

Thanks for that thought provoking contribution to this discussion.

jmarquiso:
Now, Die Hard 2-4 he was turned to as an extraordinary man. In the first one he was ordinary caught in an extraordinary situation.

No, as mentioned, "normal" would be dead. If determination is his only "special" trait then it is ABSOLUTELY MAGICAL. Also: "Badass Normal" is "normal" in name only, the "badass" portion overrules, cancels and shoots the "normal" into space.

PercyBoleyn:

ACman:
snip

So basically, a bunch of strawmans and jabs at my mental health. And I thought teh trawlz were the bad guys.

Parody is the only worthwhile to do with your opinions mate. Your type is not worth arguing with.

I'd vaguely like to know how you see any difference between a podcast kickstarter and Sarkeesian's kickstarter

What I can see your only salient point is that you disagree with her opinion. Plenty of people obviously disagree with you or are otherwise disgusted with the trolls that do and do this:

http://feministfrequency.com/archive/wikipedia_harassment1.png

People money is to do with as they wish and If you think that Sarkeesian's kickstarter is a scam then 90% of other kickstarters are also scams. You are merely manufacturing outrage because you disagree with her.

NOT VALID. Sorry.

So a podcast Kickstarter would also be a scam, and basically raw profit because the equipment required to make a podcast is typically already owned or else requires less than about $100 to acquire. So what?

ACman:
UR STUPID LAWL I VERRY SMURT

Ad hominem and strawman, two for one eh?

ACman:
ur so idioic u cant handle the truth silly ppl

Well...

ACman:
y u gotta disagre check u're privilege ciss raep enabler ppl don liek what u say you very not smart

Okay.

ACman:
hey ur very moron anita is beautiful lady and you just jealous man because u have pen0r handle it raep enabler

I'll get right on it.

MovieBob:
Tropes vs. MovieBob

Debunking a recurring argument.

Watch Video

The fact is that gender stereotypes cut both ways, saying it does, but then saying it doesn't negatively affect men because society doesn't actively use how men look against them(still laughing at that one), so we are just gonna concentrate on women's pain and completely ignore the other side is not only sexist in its self but also completely ignorant.

I Have no problems with her video series, I actually support the discussion. I do have a problem with the elated support she is getting just because she trolled for hateful YouTube comments to try and drum up publicity for her kickstarter and people like MovieBob bought it hook,line and sinker.

Maldeus:
So a podcast Kickstarter would also be a scam, and basically raw profit because the equipment required to make a podcast is typically already owned or else requires less than about $100 to acquire. So what?

So why don't you get onto 4chan and drum up an internet lynch mob for these guys?

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/988149443/the-comedy-button-podcast-from-the-makers-of-the-d

You better be quick they're already 32 episodes in those fucking scammers. How dare they rip people off like that? Oh what's that? You don't care because they don't disagree with your opinions?

Fair enough then.

You're a strawmanning idiot. Yes, that Kickstarter absolutely looks like a scam. I grant you, I can't be bothered to do a whole lot of research into that one specifically because no amount of screaming on the internet will change it. I can't see anything about their stated goals that would cost any actual money to produce (with possibly the exception of, like, $400 for some really nice mics and a max of about $1000 more for some editing software, all of which they should already have if they already made this in the past). They are asking for donations just to put money in their pocket, and that is explicitly not what Kickstarter is for.

EDIT: Although they do say they need props and costumes, which, over the course of 48 episodes, could actually amount to something. I seriously doubt they couldn't get the budget under $2000, but sketch comedy does actually have costs that sitting in front of a camera and talking about an opinion no one sane disagrees with does not.

Even after seeing the Video, I only see one true Problem: Trolls beeing immature Trolls on YouTube channels.

Honestly? The Sexism Works both ways. If a male sees a curvy women he thinks: Yeah! I'd hit that!

When a women sees the standart Muscle, sixpack and whatnot guy she doesn't think: That guy Probably is a very skilled and trustfull handycraftsman. >;P

Seriously? I know for hard fact that it works both ways Equally.

If the dumb boobie blond chick gets Promoted before the glassed suit wearing archiever type of lady, then it is prolly because that particular Boss needs a new matress, or it was a model job.

The true Problem is still the Internet trolls, blasting with full voloume on that Paar ladys channel.

And for sure Bob picking very one sidet for a change, wich kinda puts me off from this Episode.

WitherVoice:

jmarquiso:
Now, Die Hard 2-4 he was turned to as an extraordinary man. In the first one he was ordinary caught in an extraordinary situation.

No, as mentioned, "normal" would be dead. If determination is his only "special" trait then it is ABSOLUTELY MAGICAL. Also: "Badass Normal" is "normal" in name only, the "badass" portion overrules, cancels and shoots the "normal" into space.

Sure, I could have chosen a better example. I agree with you on that point.

And right, "True Normal" is boring, if we reduce normal to someone with no identifying flaws, quirks, positive or negative traits. Because that's not normal.

The hero of a story in general must overcome great odds, otherwise it isn't a story, it's a statistic.

Let's look at "Nick of Time". A movie sold specifically on the idea that Johnny Depp is a normal guy trying to save his daughter. It's just less well known.

I was trying to say that narrative has moved on from myths about pseudo gods that we seem to have in Video Games (Kratos being a literal example) to stories about vulnerable people. John McClane is far more vulnerable than John Rambo, and Die Hard became the more praised film. (First Blood made 47m, Die Hard made 87m and was a surprise hit - John Rambo's advertising showed him as a roided up determined marine, McClane showed fear). I was trying to demonstrate an evolution here.

If the best you could say about a character is that they're a roided up space marine or a princess needing rescuing, they're not compelling, and their immature narratively. Narrative heros and heroins tend to evolve into more everyday people. They still need to have some quirk or some flaw that makes them watchable and interesting, sure. They no longer have to be "the most beautiful" or "the strongest" as is the case of early mythology and narrative - and was the case with silent film.

*sigh* I checked out Tropes vs Women and some more of Sarkeesian's videos... what to say?

Her making videos? I have no problem with this. She sees something that needs comment, she comments. Good thing.

Her asking/getting money to do it more? Well, a man, or woman, has got to eat, right? Stuff costs money, time is money. If she wants money to do something, and people are willing to pay, capitalism is served and we should all be celebrating... I think.

I'll not be giving her money. I don't have too much money kicking around, and I'd prefer to spend it on entertainment. Sarkeesian does not entertain me.

Here's what I'll do about her: I suggest everyone vote with their wallet. You feel that what she brings to the table is worth five bucks to you, give her five bucks. Those who think she's some kind of scary/annoying/whatever horrible horribadness... don't give her any money.

As for her: vote with your wallet. Don't give money to people who make stuff that's male chauvinistic and misogynistic, shower money on that which you find "good". Make it successful. I've never before heard anyone lamenting that they have become powerless, now that they are a demographic worth marketing to... that's the greatest power most people HAVE in a society, seriously.

I'd like to stress a point about Anita that was made in a Bill The Man From Kentucky video: She didn't tell the whole truth about that PowerPuff Girls episode with Femme Fatale. Anita failed to mention that the issues brought up by Femme Fatale were dealt with. Granted, there may need to be more stronger solutions than just putting Susan B. Anthony on the Dollar Coin, but the issue was addressed by the show creators.

Another thing is that she accused Mattie Ross from True Grit of not being a feminist character for willing to resort to violence. I disagree: there are times in fiction, especially less realistic fiction, that a character should solve a problem with violence. If feminism is about equality between men and women, shouldn't there be times that male and female characters have to solve things with violence?

Would this mean she'd dislike entire video game genres for being violence based? But then again, she gave her donors stickers of Zelda with sword and board, two tools only good for violence. Confusing...

Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against pacifism in gaming. It's why I don't make fun of casual gaming, as it supplies gaming with a long-overdue boost in pacifist fun. I've even rolled on a World of Warcraft server just to play alongside Noor the Pacifist. I just feel squeamish that a web series about sexism in gaming is by someone who may not be asking for fighting game characters to be more feminist, but for fighting games themselves to stop existing. And this producer may bend truth to do her attacks.

Oh, yeah, while we're at it, her standards for what counts as a "good portrayal of women in gaming" appears to be totally non-existent. If there's a good example of a female character, she picks some random trait like "is violent" and uses that to condemn the character as being not good enough, even though being violent in bloody True Grit is not exactly a drawback.

There's a panel show in Australia (The Gruen Transfer) where they analyse ads.
The marketing people on the panel were discussing why sex sells. Something along the lines of:
It works on women because they think 'that couldn't be me' then the ad says 'But it could with THIS'
It works on men because they think 'that could be me'.

Hm, I probably missed something there, at some point there's meant to be insentive for the man to buy the product... but you get the idea! Muscle bound men can easily be there for the men to envisage themselves as, but apparently, for some reason or other, it doesn't generally work the same way for women.

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