The Big Picture: Tropes vs. MovieBob

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Rarhnor:

Xanthious:
I noticed Bob conveniently ignored that men are indeed objectified in much the same way as women in things like trashy romance novels, daytime soap operas, TV shows like Desperate Housewives and Gray's Anatomy, or even movies like Twilight and I could go on. Last I checked there aren't hordes of men getting in line to buy soap boxes to stand on while they get all indignant on the internet about that though.

It's because men generally accept their objectification. Don't really know why, though.

It's fiction designed to pander to people. They're not insulting men or anything so why should we give a crap?

Abandon4093:

Blade_125:

Fusioncode9:
I don't care that she's making these videos, I care that she asked money for them. Plenty of people have done these kind of videos for free, but she needed 6,000$ to do them. And thanks to the internet she now has over150,000$ to put in her pocket. Wonderful job guys, no I'm sure she'll spend every cent of that on the tropes videos.

It really irks me that you earn as much money as you do. I don't think you deserve that much, and even though that doesn't impact me in the slightest I am still going to complain about it.

LOL

.... Earn....... Priceless.

OT: You're incredibly naive if you don't think men aren't judged on their appearance in the workplace. We may not be expected to look like Kratos but the ideal body image for a male is just as unhealthy as it is for a female.

Man I should not be reading this at work. It's hard to to laugh at some of these arguments.

Taking one word out to try and ruin my satire. How horrible of you :)

And I must be incredibly naive then. I've looked at the men in my job and either managment has a thing for for the portly gentlemen, or management didn't care about their looks so long as the job is done. TO be fair there are some women here who I wouldn't say will win a beauty pagent, but there are also far fewer women then men who work here.

Strangely that description fits every business I have worked at.

Simple fact is that far more men than women hold upper management positions. These are the people who hire and fire. I even have an example of a woman keeping her job because of her looks (which is sad because she was quite capable of keeping her job based on her skill), but that doesn't matter because it is one example. Stats I keep seeing in the news show women earn on average around 75% of men (the exact figure fluctuates but they are all in that range). I have never seen anything to suggest that men are prevented from advancing because of their looks. I'm at best average looking and it hasn't stopped me from advancing in my career. Maybe you have some stats that prove me wrong.

And no I haven't pulled stats on my own. I am sure everyone on ehre is skillful enough with google to look stuff up if they want any verification.

Fusioncode9:

Blade_125:

Fusioncode9:
I don't care that she's making these videos, I care that she asked money for them. Plenty of people have done these kind of videos for free, but she needed 6,000$ to do them. And thanks to the internet she now has over150,000$ to put in her pocket. Wonderful job guys, no I'm sure she'll spend every cent of that on the tropes videos.

It really irks me that you earn as much money as you do. I don't think you deserve that much, and even though that doesn't impact me in the slightest I am still going to complain about it.

Thanks but at least I EARNED it. I didn't go begging on the internet to make a few internet videos which I could have easily done for free like so many others have.

Nobody does anything for free. You really think anyone with a large youtube audience makes videos for free?

I'm not saying the internet isn't full of idiots who would totally do this kind of thing... but I'm wondering how many of them are real. In the same way EA created it's own religious protest against Dante's inferno to generate publicity, it wouldn't be hard to create a bunch of sexists to rant against you on Youtube.

It's created a shit ton of publicity for her and even plays into her narrative. I'd never heard of her or her series before this and was unlikely to hear about it if this incident hadn't happened

It's awfully convenient is all I'm saying.

I was thinking that it was a marketing strategy while I was watching this video. The demographic is largely male. There would be more female orientated characters if more women played but that seems to be a way off at the moment. That said isn't that down to the overall idea/flow if the game, maybe it didn't fit with the story. Would the game benefit from forcing characters into it to fill quotas?
It's also important to remember that men are more visually reliant on sex appeal and if you want to see an example of 'girl porn' just look at the love interests in movies aimed at women.
Is the perfect guy image portrayed in media aimed at women any less damaging than the perfect woman image portrayed in media aimed at men? Is it damaging to remove 'unrealistic' images of women from media under the guise that it's damaging the confidence of women? Won't they just be realise this anyway as people are attracted to attractive people.

Zayle79:

Littaly:
I've actually used the "it's not a gender specific issue, everyone is made to look prettier in games" argument in the past. No...

The premise of her series isn't inherently flawed just because there's also a related issue that she hasn't mentioned.

I didn't say it was, because I don't think it is.

Not sure if that's what you thought I said, just wanna set the record straight in case it was ^^

corrosiveblood:

Tokokizora:
I think we maybe taking a turn for the better with the new tomb raider game

no we don't, because:
- In this game you get to rape lara if you won't help her! And they make her weak, so she can do it only with your dirty musculine help!
Somehow femitists don't like new lara either

Can't tell if trolling but "so she can do it only with your dirty musculine help!"

There is no video game character ever who can complete the game without the player's help. If it does we call it a movie.

Once again I find myself kind of torn, both sides seem to be JUST as loud and obnoxious as each other. Its like the way both sides of the Mass Effect ending just completely ignored or looked down on the other side while the few actually making a good bloody argument were overshadowed.

Some people are dicks, im not surprised some reacted like they did, their dicks, but why so many have a problem with a women who does this sort of media study just looking at tropes in games, WHICH ARE THERE, seems so pathetic. However, why she needs SOOOOOOOOOOOOO much bloody money dispite the resources she already has seems greedy, people do this sort of thing every day for free afterall...

Dastardly:
Nice boobs are great, but have no real bearing on combat ability.

This is completely and utterly untrue.

The bigger the breasts thee more hampered their ability to use a bow. Bigger decreases combat ability.

Reading through these comments, it's as if some people didn't even watch the video..

I can't watch the video but did Bob source the idea that ugly women don't get hired as much but not ugly men?

Fusioncode9:

Blade_125:

Fusioncode9:
I don't care that she's making these videos, I care that she asked money for them. Plenty of people have done these kind of videos for free, but she needed 6,000$ to do them. And thanks to the internet she now has over150,000$ to put in her pocket. Wonderful job guys, no I'm sure she'll spend every cent of that on the tropes videos.

It really irks me that you earn as much money as you do. I don't think you deserve that much, and even though that doesn't impact me in the slightest I am still going to complain about it.

Thanks but at least I EARNED it. I didn't go begging on the internet to make a few internet videos which I could have easily done for free like so many others have.

Yes I am sure you did earn it, or maybe you didn't. Either way what do I care. That is my point. Why does the fact that people gave her money to make this video mean a damn thing to you? If I want to burn my money and then inhale the fumes that's my business. If I want to donate to something else then that is fine too. I don't see your indignation over political contributions, or donations to churches, or to whatever other causes out there you may or may not agree with.

I am sure she could have shot the videos for free, but it is hard to do an accurate documentary without any research, and if it is how women are portrayed in games then she is going to need to play all those games. You don't think Yahtzee buys all the games he reviews with his own cash do you? That would not be possible. So she is trying to do something and asking if people want to donate, adn look enough people did to give $150k, so maybe this is a bigger issue than most of the people on this site think.

Good Video Bob.

MonkeyPunch:

I'm so tired of this subject and people trying to say that it's not OK for women to be objectified in games because it doesn't happen to men, which it clearly does. Why do people always try and use that same old argument, which doesn't even hold water?

Yeah, and I wished people would stop using the incredibly short-sighted and ignorant argument of "men are also objectified in video games" to try to validate the objectification of women. Have you even watched the video the whole way through? Men and women are equality being objectified in video games but the way they are portrayed is almost always male centric. Male and female-tropes that appeal to men. The evidence is there clear as day in most videogames produced today.

Why answer this fact with knee-jerk conservative statements such as the one in quoted? I don't get it. Videogames would not die if there were less big breasted, scantily women and men whose muscle masses blot out the sun. These tropes will never truly go away but we could do with less of them. Everyone would profit from the increased variety and accessibility, not to mention the artistic value of not only catering to fantasies of young males.

MovieBob, why you gotta keep picking on Mai Shiranui?

NinjaDeathSlap:
I think the problem with this specific case though is if she was actually as much of a champion of women's issues as she claims to be, why is she focusing on some imaginary woman with big boobs rather than the thousands of real woman who actually fall victim to outdated, sexist cultural ideals in certain parts of the globe every day. I don't see many people in our sheltered little existence being their champion right about now. So, actually, I'd say in relative terms this isn't an issue that really "needs" to be addressed like it's a matter of urgency, and it certainly doesn't require people to throw money at her which she will do nothing with.

The trouble is, while feminism is no doubt an admirable movement that, at it's heart, seeks a fairer society for all, the doesn't stop a lot of feminists from being idiots, in the same way that a lot of people period are idiots. However, in these enlightened times it seems you are unable to call someone who identifies themselves as feminist an idiot, without you being labeled a chauvinist pig, which is a large part what has led to the angry backlash against feminism in general. Does that make the comments on Youtube justified? Hell no, but who honestly cares about what Youtube trolls say anymore. If their opinions aren't worth noting then why are you acting like their petty insults are a big deal? They can spout all the unpleasant sexist comments they like and it will mean nothing because people know by now not to listen to Youtube.

Also, is it just me, or does her whining in her video's about how it's not fair that men get all the 'exciting' jobs in media and entertainment to be painfully immature. In the real world, these 'exciting' jobs, like fire-fighters and soldiers, get people killed, maimed for life and psychologically scarred. I'm not saying there shouldn't be more equality, quite the opposite, but she devolves the argument to 'we want to do all the cool shit too!' when, in the real world, the cool shit isn't cool at all, it's as messy as it comes. That argument, coming from a supposedly mature adult, really grates with me. I want equality, but on the basis of equality itself, not because it 'isn't fair' that more women don't get killed on battlefields or in burning buildings.

Oh jesus, here we go. Derailing 101: "There are ACTUALLY women being abused in (Country X)! Why aren't you going to help them instead of wasting time with this?"

#1 - how do you know she doesn't care about those women / hasn't donated money or done whatever to help?

#2 - That doesn't mean she shouldn't ALSO tackle the problems at home. And while it's true that these representations come from a problem in society, they also reinforce said problems. Tackling one and the other is the ideal method.

The problem with this topic is that the misogyny trolls have more staying power and free time than the sensible masses, so these threads end up reading like some bizarre, cultish chat room where everything sort of mimics the shape of rational political discourse but is predestined to wind up supporting a nonsensical ideology.

samus17:
Complaining that videogames cater to men is like complaining that the Oxygen channel caters to women; there's going to be pandering and NO ONE SHOULD CARE

One channel

vs

Entire industry

???

Blade_125:

Abandon4093:

Blade_125:

It really irks me that you earn as much money as you do. I don't think you deserve that much, and even though that doesn't impact me in the slightest I am still going to complain about it.

LOL

.... Earn....... Priceless.

OT: You're incredibly naive if you don't think men aren't judged on their appearance in the workplace. We may not be expected to look like Kratos but the ideal body image for a male is just as unhealthy as it is for a female.

Man I should not be reading this at work. It's hard to to laugh at some of these arguments.

Taking one word out to try and ruin my satire. How horrible of you :)

And I must be incredibly naive then. I've looked at the men in my job and either managment has a thing for for the portly gentlemen, or management didn't care about their looks so long as the job is done. TO be fair there are some women here who I wouldn't say will win a beauty pagent, but there are also far fewer women then men who work here.

Strangely that description fits every business I have worked at.

Simple fact is that far more men than women hold upper management positions. These are the people who hire and fire. I even have an example of a woman keeping her job because of her looks (which is sad because she was quite capable of keeping her job based on her skill), but that doesn't matter because it is one example. Stats I keep seeing in the news show women earn on average around 75% of men (the exact figure fluctuates but they are all in that range). I have never seen anything to suggest that men are prevented from advancing because of their looks. I'm at best average looking and it hasn't stopped me from advancing in my career. Maybe you have some stats that prove me wrong.

And no I haven't pulled stats on my own. I am sure everyone on ehre is skillful enough with google to look stuff up if they want any verification.

You need to look at the reason WHY are there more men than women in management. The big reason that is continually over looked is down to what the individual wants. There was a study in the UK that asked both men and women what they wanted from their future. Most men wanted advancement in their career whereas one third of women wanted a career, one third wanted a family and one third wanted both. This means that careers that require the most effort will not be suitable for two thirds of female applicants. For whatever reason (cough biology) men and women have different priorities.
People need to ask more questions rather than stamp their feet at situations they are unhappy with.

I wonder what the "Bob Chipman bump" cost?

Hopefully more than 31 pieces of silver.

misterprickly:
I wonder what the "Bob Chipman bump" cost?

Hopefully more than 31 pieces of silver.

Yes, because sticking your head in the sand and ignoring issues is how they get solved.

Father Time:

Can't tell if trolling but "so she can do it only with your dirty musculine help!"

There is no video game character ever who can complete the game without the player's help. If it does we call it a movie.

Actual quote from developer:
"They're more like 'I want to protect her.' There's this sort of dynamic of 'I'm going to this adventure with her and trying to protect her.'"

Actual butthurt from "female gamer"
"So lets see...let's remove Lara from being fully badass to weak 'Whedon-flavored female hero' bullshit because you know...that's exactly what I want to see in Lara. Not a confident badass fully aware of her sexuality. Nope, can't have that, might scare the boys are TARGET DEMO."

enjoy fully here
http://kotaku.com/5917400/youll-want-to-protect-the-new-less-curvy-lara-croft

I would like to bring up the issue of "agency in games", as in, "Who is the character the player controls, and what are his or her motivations?". Unless the gameplay itself does not require the player to assume a character role, like say for puzzle games or RTS, the game creators will make a series of assumptions on who they think will buy the game. First-person-shooter players are all expected to be white men, and time-management game players are all assumed to be white women (especially those with aspirations to open a café or bakery).

This is the kind of thing that bugs me when people make the argument, "Well, if you think the game is sexist, you don't have to buy it!" When I want to play an FPS, I want to play it for the gameplay (shooting things, shooting more things, running missions, cooperating with my friends to take down the opposing team, etc.). When in the course of my FPS-playing, I am greeted with numerous romantic advances from curvaceous women, or worse still, encounter no women at all, I keep getting the overarching message from the game, "What are you doing here? It never crossed our minds that a woman would buy this game, despite the fact that we know you have money. You don't belong." I wonder if a man gets a similar feeling if he tries to play something like Diner Dash or Cake Mania.

Sexist assumptions can make what is otherwise an enjoyable game-playing, comic-reading, or film-watching, entertainment into yet another reminder that, as a woman, I primarily exist to be a secondary character, and while I can be the protagonist, I must at all times be good-looking, or that because lots of other women like something (Twilight, Justin Bieber, etc.) I must like it too and that it accurately portrays what all women want.

P.S. For those who have been bringing up the "sex sells" counter-argument, I would like to say that yes, sexy men and women are used to sell things, but sexy women are used far more often and are often used to sell things not even related to sex. For example:
* The Price Is Right, the advertisement showcase/game show, has women showcasing the prizes. Men sometimes show off the prizes, but they are not a part of the regular cast and are usually on to promote something else, like a soap opera.
* Ads for women's shaving products feature almost always feature only women in the ads. Ads for men's shaving products feature men until the ending shot, where a woman appears, seemingly from nowhere, to stroke a man's face.
* Men in fast food ads not depicted in sexy clothing or eating food in a "sexy" way. Women are (although eating that is supposed to come across as "sexy" mostly just comes across as "I can't sit up straight at the table").
* Men in automobile ads are depicted in regular clothing or business attire. Women also appear in regular dress or business attire, but it is also not considered odd for them to be in skimpy clothes or bathing suits.
* TV ads for women's underwear either make the main selling point comfort or sexiness. Men's underwear ads only sell based on comfort.

Monxeroth:
"Society judges women based on their appearence rather than their ability"
A valid argument yes and realistic enough to be taken seriously, but there's always two sides to a coin.

If you really want to get to the root of the problem, ie, why women have their general value based on the exterior, is to ask the right question.

Is it ONLY because society and heterosexual white males judge them by their appearence
OR
could it be the fact that some women really don't help that problem at all by simply, oh i dunno
PRESENTING THEMSELVES AS IF THAT IS ALL THEY HAVE TO OFFER

seriously, i don't see this argument as valid if it comes from someone who only posts cleavage pictures of themselves on facebook and tweets about all the money they spend on cosmetic bullshit, then you are not entitled to have this argument with me.
If women would like to be judged by their abilities, then show it, make me believe you would actually want that rather than spending countless hours and resources on perfecting your appearence, thats not going to help at all, thats just making it worse for the kind of women who already have it bad and are actually suffering from this problem.

Too often do women expect to get handed everything and not be judged by their ability, because they think their appearence is enough.
So both parts imo have to do their parts in the sense that

Some women need to stop focusing on their appearence and using that as an excuse to
get what they want, and also stop presenting themselves as if the appearence was the most important thing to them.

While some men and society and general needs to stop making these retarded demands from women and portray them in one specific way in media and so on.

This is not a problem to solely blame on society and the heterosexual male :'(

I like how at the end there you didn't completely blame the victim of the problem, for the problem.

Friend you are right that if men&women didn't adhere to the bullcrap of sexist roles in society that this crap would go away, (though that's about the same as saying if everyone was nice to everyone there wouldn't be any war, but lets stay on topic.)

Your argument is flawed because the women you say are going around everywhere thinking they can get by on nothing but their looks, are able to do so because men(and women, remember we all hate each other so at least we're fair that way) let them get by on only their looks! If society didn't let anyone get by on just their looks no one would do it because they couldn't! And yes, as I said men aren't the only ones who are sexist&would judge a women just by her looks, but you don't have to study sociology to guess which gender does it more offen.

And as for your oh so classy Brit friend, tell him to take it easy, and take his own advice to grow a brain/use the one he has. Yes there are worse sexist crap going around world wide that can't be dreamed up even in our worst nightmares. However, just because someone wants to talk about a different part of the same problem that is as bad as the othe horrors, that doesn't mean they have no right to say "hey, this happens, and I don't think it should". Having it better then others doesn't mean you have it good. It just means that someone has more misery than you.

As for the money, like many before me have said; You don't have to give any money to her, if you are so upset about the money going to her topics instead of bigger issues you can either give money to people working on those issues yourself, or ask her (in a polite way) to give the money she doesn't use to other issues. All of these actions are not only a good idea, but also some can help solve the problem.

Blaming the victim(even just partly), or being a whining crass baby about it does nothing for this issue, but further prove that something should be done about it.

Captcha: tune in
I would ask that anyone that wants to, should watch the Tropes v.s. Women videos and talk (in a polite way), and in detail what they think of the topics. As for me I saw some lady talk about different tropes, showed a few examples, sometimes brought up others who already talked/researched it, and then at the end did all you can really could to change this problem in media when you don't control it, ask that they don't use the tropes as much&just try to write women like characters that have some importance the story rather than just a women shaped plot device. To me that sounds reasonable. I wouldn't pay 100K+ to see it work, but I'd give it a look when it's done. If I am missing something important, please tell me through polite conversation. I would enjoy such, and I like getting different perspectives on issues. (to all who read) Thank you for your time.

I once tried to apply as Kratos
I'm good at killing things
Hell I can even learn to fight with chain attached blades
But noooo, you need to have sixpack and shoulders as wide as fridge
Well, F U industry, I'm going to go on God killing spree on my own :(

As for Feminists- as long as there is total BS against women happening in Africa or middle east, your complaints about media is nitpicking
Grow a pair and tackle some REAL issues for a change

Eri:
I think the worst part of the whole Tropes thing is the fact she's gotten over 150,000$ and for what? To make what is basically youtube videos? That's absurd.

Take a look at this show, extra credits, yahtzee, etc... They make on average a 5 minute video a week and constantly put them out, she is making what amounts to 3 hours tops of videos and making way more than I'm sure anyone else gets paid, and for much less work too.

They get paid for it but not as much as she should get for this.

Taking what you said that she does less work then Yahtzee then I think your lying. The truth is, Yahtzee gets paid to literally play a game, make a joke about that game while also telling you if its bad or not. All he has to do is sit there, play a game then talk about the game.

All Extra Credits has to do is research a single game or talk about a problem within games, they do not have to talk about the whole video game spectrum in depth. She, on the other hand, is going through the entire medium front to cover over this, she is not just sitting there talking about one or two really bad examples of it.

Overall, yes, she does deserve the amount she gets for this because at the end of the day shes going through the entire gaming genre, not one game or one genre.

-------------------------------------------------------

Its seems Bob forgot the bit where you actually talk about a way to fix this.

corrosiveblood:

Father Time:

Can't tell if trolling but "so she can do it only with your dirty musculine help!"

There is no video game character ever who can complete the game without the player's help. If it does we call it a movie.

Actual quote from developer:
"They're more like 'I want to protect her.' There's this sort of dynamic of 'I'm going to this adventure with her and trying to protect her.'"

Actual butthurt from "female gamer"
"So lets see...let's remove Lara from being fully badass to weak 'Whedon-flavored female hero' bullshit because you know...that's exactly what I want to see in Lara. Not a confident badass fully aware of her sexuality. Nope, can't have that, might scare the boys are TARGET DEMO."

enjoy fully here
http://kotaku.com/5917400/youll-want-to-protect-the-new-less-curvy-lara-croft

Ok, so I don't agree with what the developer said here, but the quote you used from a "female gamer" is even worse. Now we shouldn't have complex characters with flaws because females characters should have no flaws whatsoever.

and since when did 'Whedon-flavored female hero' become an insult? He's probably the best nerd icon at writing female charatcers.

JediMB:

newwiseman:
Also if she wants to use actual game characters and not just inspired look-a-likes she'll have to pay licensing fees.

As I recall, you don't have to pay licensing fees to use limited amounts of copyrighted material for the purpose of criticism or parody. It goes under Fair Use or other international equivalents.

True, I wonder about the stickers she was offering though -- one of her donation rewards was stickers of Zelda in Link's costume and Peach in Mario's saying something to the effect of "Don't worry guys; I've got this." I can't really see how they fall under criticism or parody, especially given that both of them have played a more active role occasionally, including Peach getting her own game about saving Mario from Bowser.

"Hmm... I wonder what is on the internet today. Oh no, a wild feminist appears! And she has a Kickstarter fund going to make videos about how much video games suck and therefor how much I also suck. What can I do about this? I know: I'll call her a cunt! Apparently she's Jewish too, so I'll throw in a racial slur. That'll teach her!

"Uh oh... she's only getting more traffic and donations. Our attempts to put her in her place aren't working. Now what? Wait, I've got it! I'll point out the fact that video game main characters are all better looking than me or at least in better shape than I am, and therefor I too am the victim of discrimination and she's just a hateful, evil, hating man-hater. Yes!

"Oh! I know how to make it even better. I heard somewhere that in other countries, they stone women to death for being hot. I can't remember which ones, but I'm pretty sure I read it somewhere. I'll accuse her of wasting her time on bashing me when she could be going to those countries and leading a revolution instead. Now I've got her right where I want her! I am so smart.

"Wait, this can't be right... She's making even more money?! That's impossible! That stupid whore must have tricked me somehow! She knew I'd do this and attract all the white knights to give her their money because she has tits. I'm onto you, vile succubus. You won't be getting any of my money. And don't think I'm going to stop just because all the free publicity I ended up giving you helped you succeed. I have not yet begun to fight!"

Though I do agree that the male roles are not put there purely for women, but you cannot say they aren't sexist. Why is the fate of the world usually thrust upon a man's shoulders? While feminists may say that it is because the culture thinks women are weak, what if it is because it is presumed that men are the ones that have to do the hard work? It probably isn't but it is a possibility that we overlook. Also, anyone that says that men are not held to the same(/similar) physical standards as women has the blinders on. But, I can't blame you because our whole society has the blinders on (see "It's not racist because it's done to a white man"). The standards are not the same, women are held to slightly higher standards. But, If you are a short heterosexual male you are F***ed. If I had a nickel for every time I have heard a woman say "I could never date a guy that's shorter than me" I would have a bank account to rival EA. Yes, women have it worse, but for F***s sake can we please at least acknowledge the other side?

Sexual Harassment Panda:

5ilver:
Darn, Moviebob, here I was thinking my opinion of you couldn't drop any lower.
Probably the most painful part of the clip was "women won't get a job because they look mediocre but men will because who cares about what men look like". Idk how it's like in the good ol us of a, but here in the EU, it's pretty much identical.
You don't look as fit as an underwear model(either male or female)? Gratz, you just lost out on a TON of job opportunities.

The entire thing just stank of double standards and white knight nonsense to me and I'm not even anti-feminist :(

Don't know about the example, but I agree with the sentiment.

Male distaste for feminists isn't a videogame based phenomenon, men aren't annoyed because women are lobbying for Lara to have smaller breasts. Believe it or not...it goes deeper.

I haven't watched much Feminist frequency, because...she seems like a bit of a prat, by my reckoning. I will plug girlwriteswhat as someone who speaks about gender issues that is worth listening to.

I love the link she is intresting. I think I found something else to follow.
http://www.youtube.com/user/girlwriteswhat

She is awesome.

Blade_125:

Abandon4093:

Blade_125:

It really irks me that you earn as much money as you do. I don't think you deserve that much, and even though that doesn't impact me in the slightest I am still going to complain about it.

LOL

.... Earn....... Priceless.

OT: You're incredibly naive if you don't think men aren't judged on their appearance in the workplace. We may not be expected to look like Kratos but the ideal body image for a male is just as unhealthy as it is for a female.

Man I should not be reading this at work. It's hard to to laugh at some of these arguments.

Taking one word out to try and ruin my satire. How horrible of you :)

And I must be incredibly naive then. I've looked at the men in my job and either managment has a thing for for the portly gentlemen, or management didn't care about their looks so long as the job is done. TO be fair there are some women here who I wouldn't say will win a beauty pagent, but there are also far fewer women then men who work here.

Strangely that description fits every business I have worked at.

Simple fact is that far more men than women hold upper management positions. These are the people who hire and fire. I even have an example of a woman keeping her job because of her looks (which is sad because she was quite capable of keeping her job based on her skill), but that doesn't matter because it is one example. Stats I keep seeing in the news show women earn on average around 75% of men (the exact figure fluctuates but they are all in that range). I have never seen anything to suggest that men are prevented from advancing because of their looks. I'm at best average looking and it hasn't stopped me from advancing in my career. Maybe you have some stats that prove me wrong.

And no I haven't pulled stats on my own. I am sure everyone on ehre is skillful enough with google to look stuff up if they want any verification.

It's a pretty valid criticism to say that this woman just got $150,000 for promising to do something that has already been done before and is something that doesn't cost anything to do.

And it really depends what kind of job you're in. But generally, looks are a massive part of socialising and how quickly people warm to you. If you're attractive people are much more likely to take a shine to you. That's just how it is, this obviously has an effect in interviews.

If you've got two equally matched candidates in terms of qualifications and experience. Who do think is more likely to get hired? The one who looks like an Abercrombie & Fitch model, or the one who looks like his medicine ball?

Also I love how people are quick to point out that there are 'moah menz heah than womanz' but neglect to ask why.

Perhaps because there are a damn-site less women applying? The fields that are considered male dominated are usually male dominated because more men are interested in perusing careers in that area.

You're also neglecting the fact that companies have a checklist they need to tick off to avoid accusations of sexism, racism yadda yadda.

If an equally talented male and female are going for the same job. Most of the time the female will get it because the company then gets to tick off that diversity box.

The issue really isn't as cut and dry as, 'more men here, also this one's fat therefore sexism.'

MightyLB:
* Men in automobile ads are depicted in regular clothing or business attire. Women also appear in regular dress or business attire, but it is also not considered odd for them to be in skimpy clothes or bathing suits.
* TV ads for women's underwear either make the main selling point comfort or sexiness. Men's underwear ads only sell based on comfort.

It's down to marketing and what you are trying to sell to the customer. Look at cleaning products they are usually aimed at housewives and portray the husband as helpless. Ask yourself what are they trying to sell to their demographic?

PotatoeMan:
[quote="Blade_125" post="6.379179.14859457"][quote="Abandon4093" post="6.379179.14859222"][quote="Blade_125" post="6.379179.14858658"][quote="Fusioncode9" post="6.379179.14858494"]

You need to look at the reason WHY are there more men than women in management. The big reason that is continually over looked is down to what the individual wants. There was a study in the UK that asked both men and women what they wanted from their future. Most men wanted advancement in their career whereas one third of women wanted a career, one third wanted a family and one third wanted both. This means that careers that require the most effort will not be suitable for two thirds of female applicants. For whatever reason (cough biology) men and women have different priorities.
People need to ask more questions rather than stamp their feet at situations they are unhappy with.

I completely agree with asking why things are different. Is it biology, or is it that they are let to believe from birth that things should be a certain way.

Thousands of years ago women were treated little better than cattle, and most would have told you they were fine with it. Is that biological? Or is it that from an early age they had any questioning removed from their mind (one way or the other I am sure).

This is why I think it is a great idea to see videos examining things like the tropes vs women. Do yourself a favour and watch a few commercials for girls. See what they are told.

One of the best movies I saw on this was called Miss Representation. I would definetly suggest it.

Lastly, this is what made me really start to examine the issue. I hope to have children relatively soon. I realized that if I haev a daughter I don't want her to grow up in the world as it is right now. How will you feel if you have a daughter who grows up in this world?

yeti585:
Yes, women have it worse, but for F***s sake can we please at least acknowledge the other side?

It's not really an other side. It's a separate issue. The two are not in conflict with one another and people need to stop pretending that they are.

IceStar100:

Sexual Harassment Panda:

5ilver:
Darn, Moviebob, here I was thinking my opinion of you couldn't drop any lower.
Probably the most painful part of the clip was "women won't get a job because they look mediocre but men will because who cares about what men look like". Idk how it's like in the good ol us of a, but here in the EU, it's pretty much identical.
You don't look as fit as an underwear model(either male or female)? Gratz, you just lost out on a TON of job opportunities.

The entire thing just stank of double standards and white knight nonsense to me and I'm not even anti-feminist :(

Don't know about the example, but I agree with the sentiment.

Male distaste for feminists isn't a videogame based phenomenon, men aren't annoyed because women are lobbying for Lara to have smaller breasts. Believe it or not...it goes deeper.

I haven't watched much Feminist frequency, because...she seems like a bit of a prat, by my reckoning. I will plug girlwriteswhat as someone who speaks about gender issues that is worth listening to.

I love the link she is intresting. I think I found something else to follow.
http://www.youtube.com/user/girlwriteswhat

She is awesome.

GWW is a dyed-in-the-wool anti-feminist and MRA blogger, who has regularly written columns at A Voice for Men - a site which has been identified by the Southern Poverty Law Center as one of "hundreds of websites, blogs and forums dedicated to savaging feminists in particular and women, very typically American women, in general."

Under no circumstances should she be taken as a credible or impartial spearker on gender issues.

-m

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