The R Word

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Helmholtz Watson:

CaptainKarma:

Helmholtz Watson:
As long as your not trying to make me abide by your rules, then that's fine that you don't agree with me.

They are not rules dammit. They are suggestions on how to be a decent human being.

While you might have been presenting it as a suggestion, other people like itsthesheppy have not, and instead they are presenting it like something I should be required to do.

Required in the sense of "this is a massive douchebag thing to do", not required as in "there should be some kind of LAW!".

So now that nobody is gonna force you to stop using rape, do you think maybe you'll stop it?

Thank you, Anonymous, for this. I can't imagine the strain it took to write it. It was brave, in so many ways, to do so. To bear the weight of others, in effect. So thank you. Also, the writing was astounding.

As for the rest of the thread, I've got a question: what's wrong with being considerate? Why do we have to lash out at someone who's just asking for consideration? He's not trying to censor you, limit your life, shut you down, or insist that you adhere to the internet's version of the "feminist agenda" (which I honestly can't even begin to understand). He's shared something powerful and asked that you think on it, is all.

The writer's just asking you to not be a dick to others if you know how to avoid it. I'm sure you can manage that.

As expected the first page of comments is generally positive while the arguements sprout up like wildfires increasing in intensity as the post count goes up.

This article was clearly sensational, but I get the message. I for one don't use the term in its more casual form, but it strikes me that the number of victims in a massive outlet like Xbox Live is going to be a small percentage. On top of that, the victims themselves have presumably developed a coping method, and as unpleasant as it may be when coming across people throwing the word around you either ignore them, tell them to pipe down, or leave. It's an unrealistic expectation that all the desensitization afforded by modern media is going to be reversed by personal history recounts.

To sum up -- I am aware of the issue, and I do not condone it. But after having heard and read some truly horrendous things, I know that victims have to simply get by however they can. Hats off to them, all.

I have to say what I find most interesting is actually the etymology of the word, rape. It originally meant what we call today kidnapping and was seldom used with the connotation of sexual assault.

Oddly the use of word in videogame culture as slang is truer to the origin of the word than its "proper" modern day use connoting sexual assault and molestation.

OhJohnNo:

This is true, but you also have responsibilities.

What responsibilities?

Shamanic Rhythm:

Foul mouthed is one thing. Casually slinging around the language of sexual violence is another.

No, it falls under the umbrella of the term "foul mouthed".

Shamanic Rhythm:

Video games are not real life: communication in them is however real life. Just because there's a mute button doesn't automatically free you of any responsibility to be considerate in how you address others.

Why not?

Shamanic Rhythm:

So you think upholding the right of people to talk in degrading hyperbole to make sure everyone fully understands just how much they won is the most important thing here.

I think that if I can say that I just "murdered" the last match, then I can also say that I just "raped" the last match.

CaptainKarma:

So now that nobody is gonna force you to stop using rape, do you think maybe you'll stop it?

No. I never actually used the word that much to begin with, but I'm going to reserve my right to express myself.

Helmholtz Watson:

CaptainKarma:

So now that nobody is gonna force you to stop using rape, do you think maybe you'll stop it?

No. I never actually used the word that much to begin with, but I'm going to reserve my right to express myself.

So "neener neener you can't stop me"? Stop being so childish.

CaptainKarma:
I have seen people use this argument to justify shouting "*** ***" at black people. Yes rape has multiple meanings. But you intending to use only one (and like *** people are referring to plundering when they say they raped someone at CoD) doesn't remove the association with the other.

You should look up what a false analogy is.
Your example is one where the context is clearly racist, and the subject at had is whether it is correct to use the word Rape to describe utter devastation which is a valid use of the word. Why do you think that word got pinned to that act in the first place?

Interesting how you actually glossed over my example in my original post. Are you afraid of actual intellectual debate?

Helmholtz Watson:

riles481:

Congratulations you've spent the better part of two days saying you have the right to say rape whenever you want in whatever context you want, meanwhile completely missing the emotional impact or the pain contained in the article in an effort to air your own grievances about you being "censored" and simultaneously trivializing rape, murder, genocide, and whatever else the hell you don't seem to care about.

This thread isn't about you or your right to talk like a butt-hurt asshole about people who don't agree with you, and for the record I find casual use of the word genocide as offensive as rape, to not do so is to not fully come to grips with the full implications of either word.

Call names all you want, I have my rights.

Also good that you feel the same way about murder and genocide as you do about rape.

This thread isn't about you
This thread isn't about you
This thread isn't about you

Congratulations, you have rights, now apply your reason and responsibility to those rights in ways that don't include being obnoxious.

medv4380:

CaptainKarma:
I have seen people use this argument to justify shouting "*** ***" at black people. Yes rape has multiple meanings. But you intending to use only one (and like *** people are referring to plundering when they say they raped someone at CoD) doesn't remove the association with the other.

You should look up what a false analogy is.
Your example is one where the context is clearly racist, and the subject at had is whether it is correct to use the word Rape to describe utter devastation which is a valid use of the word. Why do you think that word got pinned to that act in the first place?

Interesting how you actually glossed over my example in my original post. Are you afraid of actual intellectual debate?

The point is words carry multiple meanings. You cannot always separate them out. Quibbling over the dictionary is pointless as it ignores the effect the words have.

I'm stumbled for words. This was far too emotional for me to say anything to, so I'll say what everyone thinks:

Thank you for sharing, we have major admiration for your courage and we pray (even though quite a few of us aren't religious) that you find the strength to overcome your hardship.

Helmholtz Watson:

OhJohnNo:

This is true, but you also have responsibilities.

What responsibilities?

It varies depending on the context, but in this instance, I'd say that if anyone came and said they were hurt by your use of the term "rape" (or any other such word that you brought up) then you would have a responsibility to stop on their behalf. This is admittedly a subjective thing, like all morals, but I believe that your right to free speech ends when it begins to cause another person genuine distress.

As it happens, if somebody did request that you stop using terms like "rape" or "genocide" in a multiplayer game (assuming you had used them) what would you do?

Hevva:
Thank you, Anonymous, for this. I can't imagine the strain it took to write it. It was brave, in so many ways, to do so. To bear the weight of others, in effect. So thank you. Also, the writing was astounding.

As for the rest of the thread, I've got a question: what's wrong with being considerate? Why do we have to lash out at someone who's just asking for consideration? He's not trying to censor you, limit your life, shut you down, or insist that you adhere to the internet's version of the "feminist agenda" (which I honestly can't even begin to understand). He's shared something powerful and asked that you think on it, is all.

The writer's just asking you to not be a dick to others if you know how to avoid it. I'm sure you can manage that.

This. Why is it difficult to be kind or at least inoffensive? It's always mind-boggling to me when people think that just because they have a right to do something that automatically makes it a good idea. Sure you're free to say horrible things to other people over the internet but why? Just because you're allowed to be a dick doesn't mean you should exercise that right, especially in such a hurtful manner.

riles481:
This thread isn't about you or your right to talk like a butt-hurt asshole about people who don't agree with you

Please be careful with what you say, there may be a a rape victim that reads those hurtful words. You need to always be watchful with what you say, no need to upset anyone with your opinions and random selection of sounds exiting from your mouth.

Orekoya:

Therumancer:
Your taking a shotgun to the subject in hopes of hitting something. I'll start out in being blunt in saying (as I've said before) that I myself was raped by a gay man when I was six. In my cause though I blocked it out, which doesn't make it any easier when you know it happened.

Your name is familiar; I've seen you do alot of arguing typically against gay rights in many different threads. Seeing your name in a gay thread usually just pissed me off to the point of simply not reading your posts anymore but now I'm just expressing genuine curiosity. I just spent the past couple of hours debating if I should even bring this up but I just have to know: how do you know the man who raped you was a gay man? I mean was he someone you knew or was it something you found out later? Because reading that statement by itself and knowing your post history, I can't help but feel you might be projecting your feelings on pedophiles, rape and your personal experience onto homosexuals.

I don't paticularly want to de-rail this thread, but I'll say this much:

The gist of what your saying is pretty much loaded. The basic idea being that if someone like me has been victimized, we're effectively too biased to take a rational stance on the subject. If we haven't been victimized we're ignorant and "how could we know" based simply on rhetoric.

I will say this much. What happened to me has lead to me putting a lot of effort into learning about the subject, the gay community, and how things actually are. I know more about homosexuals, the gay rights movement, and the gay community, culture, and subcultures than most gay people within that culture do. It's kind of funny but in the past I've shocked people with some of the things I know, due to the assumption that someone who wasn't gay couldn't possibly know those things the way I did (and no, I won't go into details here). You'd be surprised at what you can do when properly motivated.

A point many people who argue gay rights with me miss is that I'm not talking bunk when I say that my position on the subject has waffled over the years before settling on my current point of view. Something based on what information I've had, and looking at the big picture, as well as the people I've known. It shocks some people think that I might have actually supported the rights of gay men at one time, and that I have to be lying about it, but it happens to be true. When I was in college I probably sat in on more ABIGAYLES meetings than most gay people did. My interests also caused me to look into certain trends and patterns of behavior more closely than most people have done when given a brief.

Despite what people might want to think, the reason why an arguement with me on this subject can't be "won" is because I happen to be right. They miss the point that I was sitting where a lot of the people argueing with me are decades ago, and I know what they think they know, and also realize that if they ever really looked into the subject with any kind of actual interest and effort, they would become me. Hence the constant prodding for people to do their own research, and do their own digging and such. It's the kind of situation where someone can't just tell you the truth, it has to be gained from experience. Of course it takes a decent amount of effort and without a motivating force like mine a lot of people are just going to take things at face value, and let's face it, tolerance is the easier path since it doesn't involve actually having to do anything, especially nowadays when there is already inertia for it.

CaptainKarma:

Helmholtz Watson:

CaptainKarma:

So now that nobody is gonna force you to stop using rape, do you think maybe you'll stop it?

No. I never actually used the word that much to begin with, but I'm going to reserve my right to express myself.

Stop being so childish.

Stop trying to tell me or "suggesting" how I should behave.

riles481:

Helmholtz Watson:

riles481:

Congratulations you've spent the better part of two days saying you have the right to say rape whenever you want in whatever context you want, meanwhile completely missing the emotional impact or the pain contained in the article in an effort to air your own grievances about you being "censored" and simultaneously trivializing rape, murder, genocide, and whatever else the hell you don't seem to care about.

This thread isn't about you or your right to talk like a butt-hurt asshole about people who don't agree with you, and for the record I find casual use of the word genocide as offensive as rape, to not do so is to not fully come to grips with the full implications of either word.

Call names all you want, I have my rights.

Also good that you feel the same way about murder and genocide as you do about rape.

This thread isn't about you
This thread isn't about you
This thread isn't about you

When I'm being told how to behave it becomes about me.

OhJohnNo:

Helmholtz Watson:

OhJohnNo:

This is true, but you also have responsibilities.

What responsibilities?

It varies depending on the context, but in this instance, I'd say that if anyone came and said they were hurt by your use of the term "rape" (or any other such word that you brought up) then you would have a responsibility to stop on their behalf. This is admittedly a subjective thing, like all morals, but I believe that your right to free speech ends when it begins to cause another person genuine distress.

I would disagree that I don't have the responsibility to make sure I don't offend somebody.

Anonymous:
The R Word

The rape discussion isn't part of a "feminist agenda."

Read Full Article

That was a great article, and I fully understand what you're trying to say. I also think the use of the word 'raped' to indicate the demolition of an enemy team to be somewhat in bad taste, and I'd certainly hesitate to use it in front of non-gamers.

However, Lara isn't raped in the new Tomb Raider. There is a scene where attempted rape is involved. That's just not the same thing, and for you to make it look like TR's PR team are trying to pass off rape as a character building experience is really dishonest.

Not only would an actual rape scene be totally unacceptable and obscene in a videogame, but it would entirely change the outcome of the 'building' of Lara's character. I really don't think the team is trying to trivialize rape; I rather think they are trying to build in vulnerability as an aspect of Lara's character. I think it's hypocritical and inconsistent the way the media and gaming community has pounced on TR's devs in a very vicious and brutal fashion for this incident, when they haven't even seen the full game and furthermore think it's more than ok for cheap gratuitous violence to be included in all other games.

I have said this in a previous thread, that it is very important that TR's team are given the chance to make this work in context. If they fuck it up and it ends up being cheap and exploitative, then believe me I will join in with all of you in criticizing it.

Edit: here's a comment I saw on the PA article which I think also offers an interesting view:

Syphinxy:

I've read over this article 4 times through the day. Thought about it, read it again. Watched the trailer twice. I've really tried to just ignore this but I don't think I'll be able to settle unless I've spoken my mind, regardless of who reads it or cares.

I'm a woman in her 20's. I currently work in the video game industry. Right out of high school my twin brother enlisted. My parents had arranged a marriage for me to a smart, wonderful man that would have been able to provide really anything I could have wanted or needed and more. I even kind of liked him. But my brother and I had that twin bond going on and I found that staying at home planning a wedding while my brother was dodging bullets just didn't sit right. So I called it off and enlisted at 19.

I never saw my brother while I was on active duty but I did gain more brothers. I can comfortably say that I wouldn't be alive if it weren't for them and more than a handful of them will tell you that I am the reason that they are still standing. I saw a lot of horrible, terrible things. The conclusion of my time left me with some experiences. Rape was one of them, and I wish it was "almost". I also am missing a ring finger and two toes. They were not blown off in an accident or an attack, nor were they removed because of infection, nor did I accidentally have a cooking or power tool accident. They were removed, slowly and intentionally. The thing that kept me from losing more? The tiny droplet of saliva or whatever it was that kept him coughing uncontrollably so that he dropped his guard and led to a bullet to his head.

Anywho, I'll stop there before I get into trouble for going too far on the internet. I wouldn't want to offend anyone.

These experiences changed me, and shaped me into who I am. Yes, it was horrible, and yes I am not the June Cleaver my parents wanted me to be but they make me who I am, and I like to think they give me a focus on what matters when people around me get upset because there is too much foam in their latte. I've watched the trailer numerous times. I'm a fan of Lara since Tomb Raider 2. I've tried to be objective in how she sounds like a pornography. But you know who makes those sounds in pornography? A woman. A woman using the vocal cords God gave her. Hell I sound like I'm climaxing when I sneeze. But I'm sneezing.
Lara sounds like a woman. I feel like any pornographic interpretation is in the ear of the listener. One who listens without context. Get your ears out of the gutter. If you are offended by the treatment of Lara in the game, well I can tell you first hand that bad things happen to good people. Bad people aren't going to interrogate you, but do so in a way that you don't feel sexually harassed. I suggest you change industries or focus on Viva Pinata.

I am tired of seeing princesses always needing to be rescued, or "strong" female characters that make me feel like if I have a vagina I'm useless and are only considered strong because she holds home base while the man goes into the field. I want to see that it is OK to be a woman that has been formed through hardship.

Women may be made of sugar, spice and everything nice but that doesn't mean some aren't tempered with pain and brimstone. Lara is strong because bad things happened to her. Not because she was born untouched and perfectly gifted. Without her experiences Lara would possibly be another Hilton heiress fretting over a tiny dog and whining a catch phrase on reality TV.

Also, on a side note. Men that cling on to this objectification of women issue because it is what you are supposed to do without actually understanding the issue you are ruining things, good things. And women that have a huge issue with this game, it is women like you that made it so hard for me to get where I am today. You timid does, perpetual victims, you are my biggest hurdle.

In the years that I have been in the male dominated video game industry I have been hit on and asked out because that is what males and females naturally do. However, once I've politely declined they've always dropped the issue. I have never, ever been sexually harassed. However I have seen more than one man lose his job all because he asked a timid doe if she was seeing someone. She politely said yes, he dropped the subject and went back to work. She politely went and filed a sexual harassment complaint against him and he was gone the next week.

Because of this most of the men I work with or indirectly tend to forget me, avoid eve contact and often remember my input and ideas as being the product of a male co-worker. This has happened to me at numerous jobs. It is because men are so scared of a sexual harassment claim that they don't know how to interact in a co-ed workplace. It is like their brain is trying to pretend I am not there. You timid does, you perpetual victims, you are women's biggest hurdle.

Women who won't be victims, who were forged through strife and fire. Good people shaped by the bad that happened to them. They exist, and to cry objectification when one is represented in any form of media is to try and pretend that they don't. Timid little does.

You are a very brave person to even type that down.
Doing this is a sacrafice you have made, so that you can enlighten other people... speak for those who lose their voice. I had a tear in my eye frankly.

I am one of these people who... just has one of those faces... the face that everyone feels they can tell their deepest darkest problems and... hearing the life shattering experiances of other people, probably hasn't helped my depression.

One person I know was abused... when she was 6... the age the guy who did it means he's likely dead now... burning somewhere.

I never use the word rape innapropriately and I have a severe distaste for those who do...

CaptainKarma:

medv4380:

CaptainKarma:
I have seen people use this argument to justify shouting "*** ***" at black people. Yes rape has multiple meanings. But you intending to use only one (and like *** people are referring to plundering when they say they raped someone at CoD) doesn't remove the association with the other.

You should look up what a false analogy is.
Your example is one where the context is clearly racist, and the subject at had is whether it is correct to use the word Rape to describe utter devastation which is a valid use of the word. Why do you think that word got pinned to that act in the first place?

Interesting how you actually glossed over my example in my original post. Are you afraid of actual intellectual debate?

The point is words carry multiple meanings. You cannot always separate them out. Quibbling over the dictionary is pointless as it ignores the effect the words have.

So my mother should change her name so she doesn't offend homosexuals?

We should censor Huck Fin because it uses the N-word in a racist context, and thus remove the intent to call out racism that the book was intended to convey?

Words have meanings and removing those meaning to make it so people can justify their offense I cannot condone.

Thank you for having the bravery to write this. Some people won't understand. That's okay. They may understand eventually if people like you are willing to patiently teach through things like this. It makes me quite proud to see this discussion taking place within the gamer community. So thank you.

I've suffered my traumas and recently discovered I have my own triggers, though they aren't nearly as severe as yours. I think we all do. Part of life is getting hurt and being reminded of being hurt. Even if we haven't all suffered rape, we all will suffer from something. We can get over the original hurt sometimes, but to expect someone to get over the memory of it when you shove it in their face for your personal amusement, that's just unreasonable.

What I like about your story was because you showed why these things hurt you. If people are offended by reading that, I invite them to take a long, quiet think about why that offends them.

Helmholtz Watson:

CaptainMarvelous:
Sorry, ran out of sentence parts there were just so many that applied :D.

Cute but I didn't move the goal post, I said that if a person is going to discourage the use of words like "murder" or "starving", then I don't have any issue with them.

Lets count the number of fallacies CaptainMarvelous pointed out shall we.

CaptainMarvelous:
One
Two
Three
Four
Five
Six
Seven

Seven fallacies.

And you addressed just 1 of them.

I've noticed that a lot in this thread, you just seem to pick which parts of a post you feel like addressing, whilst completely ignoring the rest.

Allar:

This. Why is it difficult to be kind or at least inoffensive? It's always mind-boggling to me when people think that just because they have a right to do something that automatically makes it a good idea. Sure you're free to say horrible things to other people over the internet but why? Just because you're allowed to be a dick doesn't mean you should exercise that right, especially in such a hurtful manner.

I think the whiny, self righteous behaviour of some people whose requests for people to avoid that sort of language can read more like demands aren't helping. I've never used the word rape in that way, but if I did, I certainly wouldn't listen to someone who calls people childish apparently for just disagreeing with them.

WaysideMaze:

I've noticed that a lot in this thread, you just seem to pick which parts of a post you feel like addressing, whilst completely ignoring the rest.

I disagree with all the things that he pointed out.

That was impressive, especially regarding the circumstances of this article. What are my thoughts on it?

Obviously people who have suffered trauma will have triggers, however I don't think it is ultimately up to the majority to help eliminate them for the victim rather then it is up to the victim to develop the ability to cope.

Do I think that makes it okay for little shits to run around yelling "lol get raped dood" on the psn? no. Do I think that it's unfortunate that this happens? yes. Do I think that some consideration and thought would be nice? of course. I just don't think it's our responsibility to accommodate victims of trauma, especially since being a decent human being accomplishes that already.

Nitram:

Allar:

This. Why is it difficult to be kind or at least inoffensive? It's always mind-boggling to me when people think that just because they have a right to do something that automatically makes it a good idea. Sure you're free to say horrible things to other people over the internet but why? Just because you're allowed to be a dick doesn't mean you should exercise that right, especially in such a hurtful manner.

I think the whiny, self righteous behaviour of some people whose requests for people to avoid that sort of language can read more like demands aren't helping. I've never used the word rape in that way, but if I did, I certainly wouldn't listen to someone who calls people childish apparently for just disagreeing with them.

I called him childish for giving no argument other than "you can't stop me, so i'm gonna keep doing it"

CaptainKarma:

Nitram:

Allar:

This. Why is it difficult to be kind or at least inoffensive? It's always mind-boggling to me when people think that just because they have a right to do something that automatically makes it a good idea. Sure you're free to say horrible things to other people over the internet but why? Just because you're allowed to be a dick doesn't mean you should exercise that right, especially in such a hurtful manner.

I think the whiny, self righteous behaviour of some people whose requests for people to avoid that sort of language can read more like demands aren't helping. I've never used the word rape in that way, but if I did, I certainly wouldn't listen to someone who calls people childish apparently for just disagreeing with them.

I called him childish for giving no argument other than "you can't stop me, so i'm gonna keep doing it"

And I said that you can call names all you want, but you don't have the right to censor me.

Nitram:

I think the whiny, self righteous behaviour of some people whose requests for people to avoid that sort of language can read more like demands aren't helping. I've never used the word rape in that way, but if I did, I certainly wouldn't listen to someone who calls people childish apparently for just disagreeing with them.

Whilst I understand where you're coming from I think there's something to be said for having some empathy and trying to understand why people would react so strongly to this topic. I can appreciate why it would be offensive to somebody who didn't mean to be hurtful being called out for being a terrible person but there's a reason why this is such a charged issue. In the eyes of the speaker it's not a simple argument like preference for one type of media over the other, in the eyes of the speaker the consequence of disagreement is the very real emotional suffering of victims. Not only does disagreement result in suffering for the victims in question but it's suffering that occurs for what is perceived to be no good reason, it's not as though somebody's rights are being violated when you're told that you shouldn't be using the word rape in a trash-talking context. It's seen as a choice between protecting the feelings of others through minimal action or causing emotional suffering to those same people for the sake of being able to make use of one unnecessary word.

I think that in large part people have gotten to the point where they're pissed off and making demands because of how nonchalant others tend to be about an issue that's very hurtful and real for a significant number of people. The anger and demands are only arising because of the perception that an issue which is very serious for the people in question has been trivialized and mocked. The nature of the offense also makes it difficult for many people, myself included, to see how such a thing could be poked fun at without completely disrespecting the horror of the act and the feelings of the victim in question.

The indifference to an act that is so widespread is another cause of consternation I think. This is a particularly charged issue and tends to blow up like it does because there's a perception that despite how widespread a crime it is people still aren't taking it seriously. I'm sure you've seen discussions on these forums in the past about the subject of rape or women's rights, if not then I encourage you to take a look back and see for yourself. Frequently it goes well beyond simple disagreement into victim blaming and insensitivity that I hope would make most people cringe.

It is of course your right to disagree, we are on a forum after all, but while I think it's always preferable to be level headed and civil in your discourse I think it's easy to see why outbursts or indignation would arise in this context.

Helmholtz Watson:

CaptainKarma:

Nitram:

I think the whiny, self righteous behaviour of some people whose requests for people to avoid that sort of language can read more like demands aren't helping. I've never used the word rape in that way, but if I did, I certainly wouldn't listen to someone who calls people childish apparently for just disagreeing with them.

I called him childish for giving no argument other than "you can't stop me, so i'm gonna keep doing it"

And I said that you can call names all you want, but you don't have the right to censor me.

I am not fucking censoring you. I am asking you to think about the ramifications of using rape casually, and saying that it is an insensitive and cruel thing to do. This is not censorship! It is not even close.

Given everything this thread has said about the damage and distress I'm asking you this: Why SHOULDN'T you stop using it? You, personally, no censorship or anything. Why shouldn't you decide to, of your own volition, stop using that word.

CaptainMarvelous:

Words can change meanings, yeah. The word rape didn't originally mean grievous sexual assault. It does AT THE MOMENT and the only reason you'd use it is to evoke that feeling of helplessness. SO, you aren't pissing someone off unintentionally, you're attempting to evoke that response in people. And for people who have been raped it evokes a lot of negative emotions as detailed above.

Yes, words change meaning, that's my point. Beating used to mean "Physically hitting", now it also means "defeating". Rape at the moment means "sexual assault" but it seems to be in the process of acquiring the additional meaning of domination in a broader and more figurative sense that is also applied to a competitive scenario. If you believe that every person who currently uses the term does so with a sexual context in mind I think you'd be wrong.

CaptainMarvelous:

Speaking of socially inept, do you not think using a word people say is inflammatory and insisting you can say it anyway isn't just slightly socially retarded?

Not really. Everybody has their own subjective set of naughty words, no-gos, trigger scenarios and hot-button issues. One can say, not say or ignore whatever they want, but IMO what makes someone socially retarded is (amongst others) to act like everybody else has to follow their personal ruleset or be, well, socially retarded. One of the first things you will learn when you grow up is that other people have their own morals and world views and not everything you believe to be right or wrong may be just that. For example, I disagree with the notion that people can't be human beings for not keeping to your proposed use of vocabulary.

I once got asked by somebody to stop using the word "fan" because he found it offensive. "Fan". How about no.

CaptainMarvelous:

Incidentally, you've firmly earned a spot of being a prick in my book with that. I suspect you have in Sheppy's too. Good first post.

A random person on the internet doesn't like that I disagree with them.

From the article:

"I've seen a lot of comments on these articles suggesting that blowback about rape is part of some sort of "feminist agenda." This bothered me for a number of reasons, the first being that I think the 'feminist agenda' can be summed up by the phrase 'we would really like it if you treated us like people.'"

Who is being demanded to show respect? Anonymous players? Why should we care about the BS some adult-kiddies say around us, when we can form groups of online friends and just play with them? How would moderating what players spit into their microphone change how they think, while they play horrendously violent and graphic games, i.e. Black Ops or Gears of War? It doesn't make any sense to try and make one aspect of videogaming clean, while we enjoy all its other dark and vulgar fantasies of killing and maiming people.

We belong to our own social groups in the real world, appropriate venues to find understanding and belonging; I don't see how human nature should be any different online.

CaptainKarma:

I am not fucking censoring you. I am asking you to think about the ramifications of using rape casually, and saying that it is an insensitive and cruel thing to do.

Ok, I have thought about it, and I don't think the ramifications are that great. You objective was to inform me about the ramifications, and I am now informed, are you done? What else do you have to say now that I have been informed.

CaptainKarma:
This is not censorship! It is not even close.

When you cross the line from informing me, to "suggesting" how I should behave you are very close to censorship.

CaptainKarma:

Given everything this thread has said about the damage and distress I'm asking you this: Why SHOULDN'T you stop using it? You, personally, no censorship or anything. Why shouldn't you decide to, of your own volition, stop using that word.

Because I have the right to express myself regardless of who is offended.

You should recognize that a semantic shift is going on with this word.

Helmholtz Watson:

CaptainKarma:

I am not fucking censoring you. I am asking you to think about the ramifications of using rape casually, and saying that it is an insensitive and cruel thing to do.

Ok, I have thought about it, and I don't think the ramifications are that great. You objective was to inform me about the ramifications, and I am now informed, are you done? What else do you have to say now that I have been informed.

CaptainKarma:
This is not censorship! It is not even close.

When you cross the line from informing me, to "suggesting" how I should behave you are very close to censorship.

CaptainKarma:

Given everything this thread has said about the damage and distress I'm asking you this: Why SHOULDN'T you stop using it? You, personally, no censorship or anything. Why shouldn't you decide to, of your own volition, stop using that word.

Because I have the right to express myself regardless of who is offended.

You should recognize that a semantic shift is going on with this word.

"it would be censorship if I stopped" is bullshit. I'm not gonna force you, I'm just asking you to stop. You have the right to do a lot of things, doesn't mean they're morally acceptable, or even a good idea.

CaptainKarma:

Helmholtz Watson:

CaptainKarma:

I called him childish for giving no argument other than "you can't stop me, so i'm gonna keep doing it"

And I said that you can call names all you want, but you don't have the right to censor me.

I am not fucking censoring you. I am asking you to think about the ramifications of using rape casually, and saying that it is an insensitive and cruel thing to do. This is not censorship! It is not even close.

Given everything this thread has said about the damage and distress I'm asking you this: Why SHOULDN'T you stop using it? You, personally, no censorship or anything. Why shouldn't you decide to, of your own volition, stop using that word.

I am sorry but I am really offended by the word "fuck" please think about this the next time when you use it so casually. Its really insensitive of you using such a word on the internet.....

CaptainKarma:

I'm not gonna force you, I'm just asking you to stop. You have the right to do a lot of things, doesn't mean they're morally acceptable, or even a good idea.

Ok, you can ask, but I refuse to stop. Now then, knowing that I refuse, are you going to leave it at that or are you going to try to force me to stop?

As for you comment about morals, morals differ from person to person.

Helmholtz Watson:

CaptainKarma:

I'm not gonna force you, I'm just asking you to stop. You have the right to do a lot of things, doesn't mean they're morally acceptable, or even a good idea.

Ok, you can ask, but I refuse to stop. Now then, knowing that I refuse, are you going to leave it at that or are you going to try to force me to stop?

As for you comment about morals, morals differ from person to person.

I'm asking why you refuse to stop. You blathered that I couldn't stop you, which is not a reason.

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