The R Word

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Helmholtz Watson:

Susan Arendt:

It's not about offending, it's about hurting someone, on a very real level. What's more important to you - your use of the word, or not making someone relive trauma? What do you value more - saying "I raped you" on Xbox Live, or not giving someone nightmares?

That's what it comes down to, really. This isn't about someone's delicate sensibilities, this is about the fact that a single word can actually cause someone emotional and physical pain.

I would say that if hearing "I raped you" on Xbox live is too much for a person, then they shouldn't be on there to begin with because I can't imagine how a person would deal with killing virtual people in a game like COD or Halo.

EDIT:wow, its very nice to "meet" you! I didn't know that you guys actually read the forums.

And if murder or killing was something that the person in question had experienced personally, you might have a point. But you're comparing a virtual violent act with an actual trauma that someone went through - a comparison so off point that I'm forced to wonder if you're even trying to understand the core argument, or just brushing it off.

Helmholtz Watson:

itsthesheppy:
There shouldn't be places where rape survivors 'shouldn't' go in our society. If those places exist, it should be up to all of us to eliminate them and turn them into places where they feel included. Trauma survivors have every right the rest of us do to play the games they want and it is not our place to tell them otherwise.

So what should victims of gang violence/terrorism/genocide/famine do about the kinds of words that people use online and in real life?

The same thing you and I should do. Make it clear that such language won't be tolerated because it's hurtful.

An amazing article, and explanation of why words matter. I have been very uncomfortable with the terminology of BDSm for quite a while, words like rape play are bandied around with no understanding of what rape is. I wish everyone could read this article and understand more about the emotions survivors live with.

Therumancer:
Epic Snips

So... You do realize that you're lumping good feminists in with a bunch of stupid people right?

I mean, I'll grant you that I don't know everyone. I only know a very few people, and I only listen to fewer. But the people I know who are feminists don't have these crappy "Double standards" that you keep talking about.

Because those double standards are stupid. And if a feminist says it's okay for a woman to be raped in a book with fabio on the cover then he or she isn't a real feminist.

He or she is an idiot.

CaptainMarvelous:

Are you honestly comparing those two things? They're horrible words and while I wouldn't say use them, your argument lacks for two things

1)I've never heard someone describe beating someone at a race as murdering them.

2)I don't know many murder victims who play X-Box live. If someone on there WAS a murder victim I'd either call an exorcist or ask how they survived and probably not refer to my victory as killing them.

1) I never asked you whether or not you have heard the term. I picked that very specific example because I have heard that when I played racing games.

2)Cute, how nice of you to overlook people who have survived attempted murders and people who's family members have died from gang violence and terrorism.

itsthesheppy:

Your ignoring the very point of the reply, imagine something PERSONAL being thrown in your face every time not because you bring it up but because some guy or girl you're never going to meet just wants to use the word and doesn't give two shits. If you want to compare it to something, Rape doesn't compare to saying you murdered someone or you starvationed them, it would compare to saying to a random woman 'Hey, it's raining like a miscarriage out here. Oh, you had one? Well f*ck you, I want to use the word'. Though even that pales in comparison to the emotions Rape brings up.

You know what I'm imagining? You making an argument that doesn't use an appeal to emotion fallacy.

Farther than stars:

You can't imagine it, huh? Well, maybe you should consider yourself lucky.

I consider myself Helmholtz Watson but you can call me lucky if you want. ;D

From one survivor to another, kudos for the having the courage to do this.

The part about flashbacks being more like a download of old emotions.. thats exactly what my flashbacks are like most of the time. I also get a numbness in my mind but my stomache flips and the rest of my body feels the emotion.

It's a personal annoynce of mine, that people treat rape like its a gender issue. Its not a gender iwssue, its a human issue. Even though I identify as a feminist I feel like there is much work to be done helping bridge the divide between the genders, and getting rid of the association of sexual assault as a woman's crime is one of the first steps. I continue to identify as a feminist because I feel like gender issues get ignored otherwise, and out of respect for the previous activists who came before me and identified as such. I still put most of my efforts into bridging the gap between both of the genders instead of creating more of a gap between us in the name of something good.

itsthesheppy:

Helmholtz Watson:

itsthesheppy:
There shouldn't be places where rape survivors 'shouldn't' go in our society. If those places exist, it should be up to all of us to eliminate them and turn them into places where they feel included. Trauma survivors have every right the rest of us do to play the games they want and it is not our place to tell them otherwise.

So what should victims of gang violence/terrorism/genocide/famine do about the kinds of words that people use online and in real life?

The same thing you and I should do. Make it clear that such language won't be tolerated because it's hurtful.

As long as you peruse those misuses of words like murder, starvation or killed, you and I have no issue.

Eri:

Therumancer:
snip

You typed this better than I could have ever hoped too.

I try to convey these same feelings sometimes but it ends up sounding unsympathetic (to others at least). So I'll be saving this post for the future later.

Except his post does come across as unsympathetic and off-topic. This isn't an article about feminism and I should think reading it would convey the point that rape isn't purely a feminine problem.

He couldn't have missed the mark worse if he tried.

Helmholtz Watson:

itsthesheppy:

Your ignoring the very point of the reply, imagine something PERSONAL being thrown in your face every time not because you bring it up but because some guy or girl you're never going to meet just wants to use the word and doesn't give two shits. If you want to compare it to something, Rape doesn't compare to saying you murdered someone or you starvationed them, it would compare to saying to a random woman 'Hey, it's raining like a miscarriage out here. Oh, you had one? Well f*ck you, I want to use the word'. Though even that pales in comparison to the emotions Rape brings up.

You know what I'm imagining? You making an argument that doesn't use an appeal to emotion fallacy.

I never said any of that. I'll thank you not to misquote me.

Helmholtz Watson:

itsthesheppy:

Helmholtz Watson:

So what should victims of gang violence/terrorism/genocide/famine do about the kinds of words that people use online and in real life?

The same thing you and I should do. Make it clear that such language won't be tolerated because it's hurtful.

As long as you peruse those that misuse words like murder, starvation or killed, you and I have no issue.

I certainly will, if I'm in the presence of someone for whom those words are hurtful. However.

As was explained in a Jimquisition episode posted today, 'rape' as a term holds a great deal more power than 'kill'. I won't paraphrase him here; it's ten minutes of your life to watch and I'll even link it for your convenience.

I feel you are not being intellectually honest, however. I'd prefer if you came forward with your feelings. Do you truly feel that the words 'kill', 'starving', 'genocide', 'murder' etc, are all equally powerful and ought to be avoided? Or are you 'making a point' in saying that if we make it clear that 'rape' isn't tolerated that we are being intellectually dishonest and, therefor, should just use the word because slippery slopes and so forth?

Out with it. Either you think the author of the article is wrong and that the word should be used freely by whoever likes with no consequences, or you feel that we're not being intolerant enough of potential trigger words, in which case we are still in disagreement, but mostly because I'd think you were taking it to a 'logical extreme' that isn't necessary.

I really don't have anything original to add to this thread. Reading the comments so far people have pretty much summed up my feelings, but I couldn't leave without saying something.

I have never read such a frank article on this issue. Thank you so much for writing this and opening it up to comments. I feel genuinely moved by your piece and hope to read more articles tackling such issues, with the same authenticity and emotional depth, in future on this site.

I did not read the replies as I assumed someone else would post something that would piss me off.

Thank you for your article. I could not possibly fully understand living with what you do. But what you said reminded me why I think that actual crime needs to have even harsher penalties then the law currently allows.

For all you gamers out there this is what you can do: If you hear someone using that language call them on it in every way you can. Plain and simple.

Oh anon I just want to pull you into a hug so we can go cry together. Thank you for sharing.

Omgsarge:

You can't compare killing and rape like that. They are on two completely different levels. Killing is justified in video-games with competition, self defence or with a bad guy that just needs killing. Context is provided to legitimise shooting someone in the back. As far as as media is concerned, killing is a pretty abstract thing that can mean a multitude of things to a lot of people. Its not even close to being on the same level as rape. How can one justify rape? Killing at least has a certain finality to it. Rape just stays with someone forever.

I was referring to using the word rape in trash talking on xbox live, not as a game mechanic.

Omgsarge:
I can understand children using the word to some extent because they want to be on top of the food-chain in the curse/insult arms race that is the internet. But why would a grown human even want to use it to describe the domination of a competitor. As a matter of fact, why not just use "dominate" instead? There are so many perfectly fitting words out there that can be insulting or taunting without sounding like a insensitive and ignorant asshole. (and that are also a lot funnier)

Because it's trash talking?

Omgsarge:

Starving is an insult on XBox live? Like..."I totally made you...starved for kills?"

Starving as a word that is used to exaggerate a situation like being hungry. I was under the impression that this thread was also talking about the use of the word rape IRL as well.

Therumancer:
Your taking a shotgun to the subject in hopes of hitting something. I'll start out in being blunt in saying (as I've said before) that I myself was raped by a gay man when I was six. In my cause though I blocked it out, which doesn't make it any easier when you know it happened.

I disagree with what you have said in the rest of your post regarding feminism, but I'm very sorry about what happened to you. It's a very difficult thing to live with and even more difficult to talk about, and I respect you for being able to speak about it.

I would encourage you to talk to someone about it -- a professional, a family member, someone in the clergy, or even a friend. Believe me, talking about it helps a lot. Turning your back on it and hoping you won't remember doesn't work and often makes things worse. That was definitely the case with me.

Helmholtz Watson:
Dude, don't play video games if you don't want to hear it, or don't listen to what people have to say on Xbox live.

You say this as if this kind of language is a requisite element of video games and Xbox Live. The latter, maybe that's true, I wouldn't know, I don't have an Xbox and for all I know touching that console infects your linguistic center with a Tourette's-like condition requiring you to spew bile as long as it's in use. It's possible.

It sure as hell isn't inherent to video games, though. So, hey, how about instead you don't play video games if you want to hurt people?

Helmholtz Watson:

Starving as a word that is used to exaggerate a situation like being hungry. I was under the impression that this thread was also talking about the use of the word rape IRL as well.

Rape isn't an exaggeration of murder. It's a completely different action. This is part of the problem with your comparisons: most of the terms you're bringing up are larger versions of things that are happening (ex: "It was genocide" when describing a team kill. Killing five people isn't really genocide, but it's the same physical activity and context, just on a smaller scale.). Comparing this to using a word for a completely different action with completely different consequences doesn't work. It's like asking, "Why is it okay for me to call these apples a fruit basket but not okay to call them a Cadillac? They're just words." Well, yes, they are just words, but "fruit basket" is at least something close enough to extrapolate from "apples." A car is something completely different and has no business being used as a substitute for pieces of fruit.

If you're wondering why I went in such a random direction with my metaphor, it's a subtle way of pointing out you're being ridiculous (which, given this explanation, is now less subtle).

Edit: Second quote attribution fixed.

Susan Arendt:
a comparison so off point that I'm forced to wonder if you're even trying to understand the core argument, or just brushing it off.

I understand it and I disagree with it.

itsthesheppy:

Helmholtz Watson:

itsthesheppy:

Your ignoring the very point of the reply, imagine something PERSONAL being thrown in your face every time not because you bring it up but because some guy or girl you're never going to meet just wants to use the word and doesn't give two shits. If you want to compare it to something, Rape doesn't compare to saying you murdered someone or you starvationed them, it would compare to saying to a random woman 'Hey, it's raining like a miscarriage out here. Oh, you had one? Well f*ck you, I want to use the word'. Though even that pales in comparison to the emotions Rape brings up.

You know what I'm imagining? You making an argument that doesn't use an appeal to emotion fallacy.

I never said any of that. I'll thank you not to misquote me.

That entire quote was an appeal to emotion. You didn't say why murder is a word that is allowed to be used, you just kept bringing up the feeling of rape victims and how they should be considered while ignoring my question about the word murder.

itsthesheppy:

I feel you are not being intellectually honest, however. I'd prefer if you came forward with your feelings. Do you truly feel that the words 'kill', 'starving', 'genocide', 'murder' etc, are all equally powerful and ought to be avoided? Or are you 'making a point' in saying that if we make it clear that 'rape' isn't tolerated that we are being intellectually dishonest and, therefor, should just use the word because slippery slopes and so forth?

Out with it. Either you think the author of the article is wrong and that the word should be used freely by whoever likes with no consequences, or you feel that we're not being intolerant enough of potential trigger words, in which case we are still in disagreement, but mostly because I'd think you were taking it to a 'logical extreme' that isn't necessary.

I feel that words like rape are just as bad as murder or kill and that if you are going to avoid using the word rape, you should avoid using hyperboles like murder or killing. However, seeing as how I don't think that they are nothing more than words, I feel that people should be allowed to say what you want on Xbox Live.

Shjade:

So, hey, how about instead you don't play video games if you want to hurt people?

No, if people payed for it, they have a right to use the product.

Helmholtz Watson:

Shjade:

So, hey, how about instead you don't play video games if you want to hurt people?

No, if people payed for it, they have a right to use the product.

Doesn't wash. If you pay for a gun, you don't then have the right to shoot someone with it. Owning a thing doesn't endow you with the power to use it in any way you see fit.

Helmholtz Watson:

itsthesheppy:

Helmholtz Watson:

You know what I'm imagining? You making an argument that doesn't use an appeal to emotion fallacy.

I never said any of that. I'll thank you not to misquote me.

That entire quote was an appeal to emotion. You didn't say why murder is a word that is allowed to be used, you just kept bringing up the feeling of rape victims and how they should be considered while ignoring my question about the word murder.

No. I mean the text you quoted me as saying, I didn't type. Someone else did, and you attached my name to it in your post. I literally never said those words that you were replying to.

itsthesheppy:

I feel you are not being intellectually honest, however. I'd prefer if you came forward with your feelings. Do you truly feel that the words 'kill', 'starving', 'genocide', 'murder' etc, are all equally powerful and ought to be avoided? Or are you 'making a point' in saying that if we make it clear that 'rape' isn't tolerated that we are being intellectually dishonest and, therefor, should just use the word because slippery slopes and so forth?

Out with it. Either you think the author of the article is wrong and that the word should be used freely by whoever likes with no consequences, or you feel that we're not being intolerant enough of potential trigger words, in which case we are still in disagreement, but mostly because I'd think you were taking it to a 'logical extreme' that isn't necessary.

I feel that words like rape are just as bad as murder or kill and that if you are going to avoid using the word rape, you should avoid using hyperboles like murder or killing. However, seeing as how I don't think that they are nothing more than words, I feel that people should be allowed to say what you want on Xbox Live.

Alright then. You are comfortable with there being environments in gamer culture that are harmful and threatening to trauma survivors. Well, I'm not. I feel like we can do better. I feel like there should be no corner of this community that is not completely inclusive, completely safe for people to congregate and have a good time. The society is whatever we make it to be. If you don't care enough about trauma victims to do your part to make the community safer for them, and for everyone, then I'll thank you to at the very least not stand in the way of people who are trying.

Edit: ^^^^^Case in point.

Helmholtz Watson:

Steve Hughes talks about people overreacting to words

I realize that people associate ideas with words, I just disagree that some words are not ok to use in trash talking.

As for what you and I have heard, when I have played Halo or COD and somebody killed a large number of people without dieing themselves, I have heard people say that they "just committed a genocide".

I hate that guy so much, he completely misses the point. Yes, I agree that we shouldnt (mostly) avoid words just in case they offend people. There are much stronger reasons we should avoid words. In this case, it's because you may trigger violent and distressing flashbacks, as well as it being shockingly tactless, and trivialising violent acts.

And don't try and make comparisons with murder or genocide. Yes, they're horrible, and its tactless to use those words, but society is pretty open about them being bad. Rape is still trivialised, people are either not believed, treated as if they were asking for it, victim blamed, told to just get over it etc. It's not about the word, its about the way society treats the thing.

http://genderbitch.wordpress.com/2011/04/02/words-offense/

Sticks and stones may break my bones but words can mobilize an entire society in violent hate against me. And we should never forget that fact.

She's talking about a different word, but its still a damn good article for dispelling this "but its just a word/offense is dumb" bullshit.

Helmholtz Watson:

Shjade:

So, hey, how about instead you don't play video games if you want to hurt people?

No, if people payed for it, they have a right to use the product.

Then why would a rape survivor have any less of a right to play a game and not hear horrible things reminding them of a horrible thing in their past?

And before you bring it up, we're talking about the word rape here as it's the word being used. Starving, genocide, and murder aren't typically used in these situations and I think you're aware of that. I don't think it's right either to bring up those words for people who have suffered traumas relating to their own pasts, before you bring that up as well.

Rape as word though has to be treated more seriously now as there are people who aren't even treating the concept as something serious to begin with and it makes that pain even worse. Someone who's been abused and sexually assaulted, hearing a rape joke is more likely to be hurt than when hearing a abuse joke since they know that the person they're hearing these things from is going to treat one of these things far more seriously in real life and they don't have a guarantee they won't rape someone given the chance as society treats that far less seriously than they should. There is a much smaller chance of the same person making the joke being like to try and break an arm. That's not true of all survivors, but it is in general the reason you'll hear about why a survivor of rape and something else is more disturbed by the rape joke than any other kind relating to traumatic experiences.

Also, your earlier comment about rape survivors not being able to deal with murder in a game when someone mentions rape? That doesn't make sense. Being hurt by one thing does not equate to being hurt by another or making you a "delicate flower" in all situations.

I can't deal with some of my triggers too well, but I can look at Dead Space and not be phased by the violence there at all. Or even scared.

Helmholtz Watson:
I think people need to get over it. Rape is a word just like killed, murdered, starving, beaten, and genocide are words. There is no reason why the word rape should be treated like something special while the words I mentioned get an ok.

OP:Sorry to hear about your experience but why is this an article on a video game site?
EDIT:If the author is trying to discourage people from using the term rape, I hope that they also feel the same way about words like murder, killed, genocide, starving and beating.

Actually, I have family members who are victims of genocide. I don't mean "they are part of an ethnic group that had genocide perpetrated against them," I mean they themselves were beaten, starved, chased from their homes by soldiers, and saw their houses destroyed. For whatever reason, they don't respond to those words in the way rape victims often respond to slang uses of the word "rape." (Even though many of them have post-traumatic stress disorder.) Having said that, I know a lot of Jews who don't appreciate Holocaust jokes, so -- no, I don't think joking about genocide is somehow "okay" either.

I'm not forcing anyone stop using the word "rape," I just want people to understand that it can be hurtful, and make a conscious decision about whether or not using the word is worth the damage it can cause. Some people will be okay with it, some won't, but as it stands many people haven't considered why others would be hurt by the term.

Iron Lightning:
I'm sorry if this sounds insensitive but, Mr. Anonymous, you need to stop having the mentality of a fucking victim. You need to stop being a coward, trying as you do to block out anything to do with rape. It only represses your emotions and thus gives them more control over you. You need to stop living in fear.

You can do it. You know how I know that you can do it? Because when I was a wee lad of 4 I was raped multiple times. I repressed it. It haunted my dreams for 14 years until I re-experienced it in its totality when I was 18. It was the fucking worse thing ever but it still wasn't enough. After that I had 5 imaginary death experiences that were at least as painful as my initial re-experience. Even after that I had to quit my university for a few semesters because I found myself to be now so incapable of dealing with any stress that I would go into a state of paralytic shock for hours on ends at the simplest demands. Hell, it's only now that I've finally got over my subconscious fear of intimacy that has prevented me from forming any kind of sexual relationship.

But you know what? I got the fuck over it. Sure, my rape is still an uncomfortable subject but I didn't have to spend two damn weeks of suffering to write this post. As for the subject of rape in general I'm fine with it. I don't get offended at the use of rape in media or in the news or by punk-ass kids on Xbox. That's because I've learned to accept it and integrate it. I am no longer afraid because instead of repressing and running away from my fears I have the courage to confront them.

Mr. Anonymous you, sir, are a damn coward right now. You're letting your fears govern your life and the more you continue to run away from your fears the more they will own you. You don't have to be a coward, Mr. Anonymous, you can find the courage to confront your fears if you just get out of the mentality of being permanently damaged. No matter what anyone tells you, you don't have to be a damaged man.

All I will say that it is poor form to tell someone else that the way they cope is inferior because it is different from yours. I feel for what's happened to you and I fully recognize that I could never truly understand it, but attacking someone who has just painfully revealed something tragic about themselves in an appeal for a community that is more inclusive is bad form.

Therumancer:

Feminism sucks because it by and large represents a dual standard, and the arguement that girls should be able to do things that get guys branded freaks or wierdos.

I wished some people could have good long discussions with feminists that don't escalate into a fight.

Feminism is such a complex thing and it's easy to just take some example and say that's all there is to it.

And sure, there's people who give feminism a bad reputation (SCUM Manifesto anyone?)

But mostly, what most feminists I speak with want is consent and equality. Both are much less common than you might think.

Consent:
Actually, every sexual interaction is supposed to be consensual. Talk someone who clearly doesn't want to into having sex - not consenual. Touch someone who doesn't want to be touched, even if it's your partner - the same. Flirt aggressively with someone who is not interested in you - get lost. Some people demand that oral consent should be given before every sexual interaction, even in a relationship - and while this might sound a little harsh, in some situations your perception of events just isn't right. As long as there is consent, everything goes - and it is not a contradiction to be a feminist female that is sexually submissive - just because someone sometimes wants to be dominated doesn't mean that it's a weak person. Same with rape fantasies: Yes they exist, but just because you want to live them out in a safe setting doesn't turn you free for all.

Feminists often speak of "rape culture", and I am afraid that that is not exaggerated. One in four women suffers rape or attempted rape at least once in their lives, (women are, in the US, 91% of the victims) many of them get raped by "friends", partners or family members.
And don't give me that "she said it was rape because she cheated" argument to say that people shouldn't be punished for rape. An FBI study claims that 3% of rape accusations are false.
I know a few victims, I have been drugged and sexually abused myself (as a male, though my case wasn't that extreme), and I guess there are many others that just wouldn't tell me about it. About 60% of rape cases never get reported to the police. Of all the cases I know, none was. I just couldn't. The only thing I know that ever happened in all those cases was that one of the rapists was later severely beaten by a boyfriend. No one believed the raped person, they told her to be glad if that guy favoured her.

Equality:
I'm not going into this "women are paid less" thing, which still is an issue, but I want to go into another direction. It is the perception that isn't equal. A great example is that there is no real word for a male slut. There is actually no way a woman can be without being judged. If she's sexually active, she's a slut, if she isn't, she's prude. If a woman dresses sexy, men in her vicinity will think that she wants their response, or that that entitles them to anything.

Susan Arendt:

It's not about offending, it's about hurting someone, on a very real level. What's more important to you - your use of the word, or not making someone relive trauma? What do you value more - saying "I raped you" on Xbox Live, or not giving someone nightmares?

That's what it comes down to, really. This isn't about someone's delicate sensibilities, this is about the fact that a single word can actually cause someone emotional and physical pain.

Being raped does change you: it's more than non-consensual sex, it's psychic murder.

These two quotes pretty much destroyed any other arguments I have so far read, but I must admit, the one comparing the pain of rape with the pain of a paper cut made me hate the world a little bit, but it is a very good example of why this kind of thing needs to be dragged in front of people, and why brave people like the OP (the "Gaming Community" tends to act to any kind of criticism with a mix of the mob from the Frankenstein films and a fucking auto immune disease, so I can forgive him withholding his name) to show people that its not about offence or fucking feminism.

This is a really tough subject, especially when someone just poured their heart out and wrote a heartwrenching story from their life.

But I cannot and I *will* not take the time to make sure that I don't offend someone in all social interactions. If I know that someone has a specific issue or is hurt by a certain topic, then I will certainly keep it in mind and make an effort to avoid saying something stupid.

But I also know that things like these are part of life and that you have to look past them. My mother died horribly and painfully due to lungcancer. She had gotten the all-clear from the hospital came home and seemed like everything would be as it was before her condition. The day after, she became ill again, went back to the hospital and was in an extremely painful condition until she died later that night.

This is something that has haunted me for nearly two years and kept me up at night often, even now. This, is the single most terrifying experience of my life which nearly destroyed my fathers resolve to live and for a while my own. The thing is that my mother was the only person I knew that ever truly understood who I was, so I lost a deep part of myself when she died. The fact that she seemed like she was okay and then got torn away from us in the brutal fashion she did, was very tough.

But it's not like I fall into a depression every time someone pulls a "your momma" joke on me, because I know it's not related. In fact, sometimes I turn the joke around on people making them feel horrible about it and then let them know I'm kidding, because it's fun, albeit in a gruesome and dark kind of way.

The point is, life goes on no matter what happened to you and it's up to yourself to work it out and muster the courage to make it through the day. If you let random strangers on the internet ruin it for you, you're not coping with it at all.

Now... about this little nugget:

I think the "feminist agenda" can be summed up by the phrase "we would really like it if you treated us like people."

If it's about the anti-feminism thing that's currently going on, especially regarding the "Tropes on Women in Games" videos, then it's a whole discussion in itself.
I would love to treat women like normal people and it's what I've done my entire life. The problem is that the women I've treated this way, don't respond well to it.
I'm not offending anyone or belittling them, I'm actually treating them the way I would want to be treated; With respect and understanding.

Turns out that doesn't work.

The "best" response I've had was after hours of discussing(not arguing) something with my, at the time, girlfriend was annoyed with, she got angry and irrational because we were talking calmly about it. Being tired, frustrated and at that point angry, I snapped and yelled at her at the top of my lungs that I thought she was being an "ungrateful, irrational and indecent whore who should watch her f'ing manners around me".
I got a prompt apology and we had passionate sex shortly after. Problem resolved.

Feeling absolutely disgusted at myself, I dumped her the next day, because I couldn't live with that kind of person.

So before every and all arguments against the "feminist attitude" are discounted and rejected at face value, please keep in mind that there are some, not all, but *some* women who give merit to the bad stereotypes out there. This should be obvious, especially with how all the alpha male jocks are getting relationships as much or as little as they want them and nice guys don't.

Long story short, it's a great article that will hopefully enlighten some of the idiots out there, but it doesn't really change the fact that there's more to anti-feminism than mere idiocy.
Nor does it change the fact that rape is only as bad as we make it out to be and is no worse than murder apart from a sociatal perspective, which is prone to change if it was as plentiful as murder is.

CaptainKarma:
Edit: ^^^^^Case in point.

Helmholtz Watson:

Steve Hughes talks about people overreacting to words

I realize that people associate ideas with words, I just disagree that some words are not ok to use in trash talking.

As for what you and I have heard, when I have played Halo or COD and somebody killed a large number of people without dieing themselves, I have heard people say that they "just committed a genocide".

I hate that guy so much, he completely misses the point. Yes, I agree that we shouldnt (mostly) avoid words just in case they offend people. There are much stronger reasons we should avoid words. In this case, it's because you may trigger violent and distressing flashbacks, as well as it being shockingly tactless, and trivialising violent acts.

And don't try and make comparisons with murder or genocide. Yes, they're horrible, and its tactless to use those words, but society is pretty open about them being bad. Rape is still trivialised, people are either not believed, treated as if they were asking for it, victim blamed, told to just get over it etc. It's not about the word, its about the way society treats the thing.

Okay, so let me get this straight. It's not okay to use the word "rape" because it might trigger violent flashbacks. It is, however, okay to use works like "murder," "genocide," "assault," "kill," etc. which also might trigger violent flashbacks because society apparently doesn't trivialize those things. Wait a minute, wouldn't society, as you claim, treating murder as much more serious than rape mean that victims of murder (i.e. those people who have been harshly impacted by close love dieing) should react more harshly to murder than victims of rape should react to rape? You know what else is really trivialized by society? Woman on man violence. That can also cause traumatic flashbacks. I guess we should ban women from saying that they "dominated" anyone because that might cause traumatic flashbacks.

Man, I just don't see how this logic makes any sense.

CaptainKarma:
http://genderbitch.wordpress.com/2011/04/02/words-offense/

Sticks and stones may break my bones but words can mobilize an entire society in violent hate against me. And we should never forget that fact.

She's talking about a different word, but its still a damn good article for dispelling this "but its just a word/offense is dumb" bullshit.

Didn't you say at the top of your post that we shouldn't avoid words in case they offend people?

I'm confused, was the person writing a man or a woman? I read the word "raped" and I think the person writing this article is a women but then I read "girlfriend" and then I think it's a dude. (Oh wait, I caught on it's a dude).

Rape is bad and I will make sure not to rape people when I meet them; I understand that, it is common decency not to rape people just after shaking their hand. Here is my problem with rape is the major advertisement of "rape culture" (which is a silly pseudo word that can be used to deflate the argument of any opinion ie. "you are just a supporter of rape culture.") kills the meaning and significance of rape and rape accusations.

People are taking rape less seriously because apparently the more something happens the less significant is it, we didn't have all this nonsense about rape culture 10 or 20 years ago. There was no grey area with rape and it was all the more serious of a subject. I picture rape where a the victim is dragged off into an alley or bushes and violently violated and left to rot in a pool of filth.

I don't picture rape where a drunk women has a night full of sex in her bed with a guy and wakes up in the morning not remembering whether she consented.

Also there is people who lie about rape which hurts it much more. I suggest you read into a dude called Brian Banks for more on that subject.

EDIT: I also agree with the guy a few posts up, rape victims need to just get out of the victim mentality and just get over it. One of my previous girlfriends said she was raped by her cousin and she didn't play any stupid games and she had gotten over it.

Not to trivialize the argument, but words do get adopted into societal vernaculars through linguistic evolution. Have you ever said the phrase "I got Gypped?" This phrase is still considered to be incredibly offensive to Romanian people because it presumes they're all con artists and swindlers with no ethical compass; yet no one in the west bats an eye to how potentially offensive it can be. In a video game someone could get really bad loot in a dungeon and say they got "gypped" and real, actual people would be incredibly disgusted with the phrase.

The question I then pose is, do we need to be so careful with every day wording that we filter everything anyone can be affected by? I want to clarify I find the presented story to be horrific and I, personally, just don't trash talk in games and find myself to be generally to be a personable individual in real life and I do try to show sensitivity to societal issues.

As moving and articulate as that article was I'm still with George Carlin on this one. Rape can not only be funny, but can be outright hilarious if the subject is properly presented. The real cognitive failure here is that collectively we have an ever-growing body of people who fail completely at coming to an important realisation about themselves.

They're just not George Carlin.

In fact the overwhelming majority of gamers would be hard pressed to be funnier than a third-tier team of comedy writers like the guys at Penny Arcade, whose comic 'The Sixth Slave' partially triggered this latest drawn out wave of feminist slacktivism. Which is why I'm bringing up the comedy angle in the first place. While I personally find that comic to be outright hilarious, I'm not about to go out on the internet and in my day to day life and start cracking jokes about rape. It's beyond my capabilities. If you couldn't support yourself financially with your sense of humour, take that as your hint, realise and grasp the extent of your innate limitations.

It's not a hard concept to grasp. Also I've never agreed with the notion of substituting the word 'rape' for 'winning', when we already had 'owning' or 'pwning'. I'm old fashioned like that. :P

Zeriah:
-snip-

I suppose we can agree to disagree. I don't find disability, torture, or assault to be funny either, and I don't joke about them. Violence in general just isn't something I find amusing, with the possible exception of Pulp Fiction and a few things like that. But in that specific case... who wouldn't find this (NSFW) to be kinda funny? :P

I'm just not the type of person who finds (real) people getting hurt to be funny.

Iron Lightning:

CaptainKarma:
Edit: ^^^^^Case in point.

Helmholtz Watson:

Steve Hughes talks about people overreacting to words

I realize that people associate ideas with words, I just disagree that some words are not ok to use in trash talking.

As for what you and I have heard, when I have played Halo or COD and somebody killed a large number of people without dieing themselves, I have heard people say that they "just committed a genocide".

I hate that guy so much, he completely misses the point. Yes, I agree that we shouldnt (mostly) avoid words just in case they offend people. There are much stronger reasons we should avoid words. In this case, it's because you may trigger violent and distressing flashbacks, as well as it being shockingly tactless, and trivialising violent acts.

And don't try and make comparisons with murder or genocide. Yes, they're horrible, and its tactless to use those words, but society is pretty open about them being bad. Rape is still trivialised, people are either not believed, treated as if they were asking for it, victim blamed, told to just get over it etc. It's not about the word, its about the way society treats the thing.

Okay, so let me get this straight. It's not okay to use the word "rape" because it might trigger violent flashbacks. It is, however, okay to use works like "murder," "genocide," "assault," "kill," etc. which also might trigger violent flashbacks because society apparently doesn't trivialize those things. Wait a minute, wouldn't society, as you claim, treating murder as much more serious than rape mean that victims of murder (i.e. those people who have been harshly impacted by close love dieing) should react more harshly to murder than victims of rape should react to rape? You know what else is really trivialized by society? Woman on man violence. That can also cause traumatic flashbacks. I guess we should ban women from saying that they "dominated" anyone because that might cause traumatic flashbacks.

Man, I just don't see how this logic makes any sense.

CaptainKarma:
http://genderbitch.wordpress.com/2011/04/02/words-offense/

Sticks and stones may break my bones but words can mobilize an entire society in violent hate against me. And we should never forget that fact.

She's talking about a different word, but its still a damn good article for dispelling this "but its just a word/offense is dumb" bullshit.

Didn't you say at the top of your post that we shouldn't avoid words in case they offend people?

Are you being deliberately obtuse? They are different reasons. Yes, both words are tactless to use, but trivialising rape has worse effects than trivialising murder. I am not saying that murder is an okay word to use, I am saying that rape is a worse word to use. And that focusing on the minor reasons (tactlessness) is silly an we should focus on the more severe reasons (like horrifying flashbacks).

The article says something similar, I have no idea what your issue with it is.

itsthesheppy:

All I will say that it is poor form to tell someone else that the way they cope is inferior because it is different from yours. I feel for what's happened to you and I fully recognize that I could never truly understand it, but attacking someone who has just painfully revealed something tragic about themselves in an appeal for a community that is more inclusive is bad form.

Cope? I'm not coping. I'm fine, I'm cured insofar as it possible to be. Coping is what people who can't get over it do. Mr. Anonymous is not over it. If he ever wants to get over it then he simply has to face his fears. That's not just my experience. It's the prevailing psychological theory.

So, it's bad form to tell a person that they need to stop living in fear. It's bad form to tell a person that they need to get over being a victim.

Then it must be good form to reinforce the person through hollow sympathy and leave him so terrified that the mere mention of rape turns the person into a quivering mess. Yep, that's really nice.

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