The Big Picture: Batman Revisited, Part 1

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Batman Revisited, Part 1

MovieBob takes you on a trip with the ghost of Batman past.

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I know one thing for certain: "Nipples on the Batsuit" is a metaphor I still use sometimes.

I think Burtons Batmans movies are pretty fantastic and Returns may be my favourite Batman movie period. Though i also have a soft spot for Adam Wests Batman. It's just so delightfully Sixties.

Awesome.

That said... Bob. At least MENTION the not-nearly-as-culturally-significant but fun-as-all-hell 1966 Batman movie. Like, don't get me wrong, it's horrible, but in the BEST POSSIBLE WAY. I mean, the origin of shark repellent spray! "Sometimes you just can't get rid of a bomb!" The fact that said repelled shark EXPLODES ONCE BATMAN GETS RID OF IT!

I'm not saying redo your entire review, but a NOD to it would be FANTASTIC.

I find it weird that Bob didn't like Batman... James Rolfe has gone on record saying it gets BETTER every time he watches it, and it's Doug Walker's 4th favorite movie of all time. Although I do admit, the fact that the Joker HAPPENS to be the one who kills Bruce Wayne's parents is pretty lame. Maybe I should see the movie myself...

I think the worst part about the Joker killing Batman's parents is not only how it's a blunt, shallow, and lazy way to up the stakes, but it also makes it feel like the whole world revolves around Bruce Wayne. It started the trend of so many action movies being downright narcissistic.

To your no other movie being as influential I throw another film into the ring. Transformers (unfortunately). When so many films are trying to ape it's general look and leading to so many brands that would never be considered for adaptation it's affect is obvious. A large amount of this may suck, but at least it lead to Hasbro going through all it's brands and making a certain equine based show.

I'm kinda happy I'm not the only one who doesn't really like the Keaton Batman films that much. I honestly never saw the appeal.

I get all the symbolism behind it, but I've always hated that cat suit.

Good video, and I have to second Bob's declaration that Batman isn't as good as we all remember it being. I saw it again about a year ago because I wanted to show it to my wife who hadn't seen it yet (she grew up in China; that's her excuse.) I was surprised by how flawed the movie was. The issues Bob brings up are there, and I also found that overall, there really isn't much that "happens" in the movie. It was driven more by the characters rather than the story. There isn't a lot of action in the movie and structurally it's rather sloppy.

One thing that I think hurt my perception of the movie is that so many more superhero movies have come out since Batman, meaning that Batman inevitably needs to be compared to them. Compared to other movies like Iron Man, The Avengers, X Men, Spiderman, etc etc it's hard to hold Batman up on the same pedestal that I used to. Again, as Bob said, Tim Burton's Batman is not a BAD movie, but when people put Batman as their favorite superhero movie I can't help but ask, "Really??"

e.wlmo4:
To your no other movie being as influential I throw another film into the ring. Transformers (unfortunately). When so many films are trying to ape it's general look and leading to so many brands that would never be considered for adaptation it's affect is obvious. A large amount of this may suck, but at least it lead to Hasbro going through all it's brands and making a certain equine based show.

I think there's a difference though. I reckon the positive output by Hasbro is a lot less, firstly (don't get me wrong, FIM rules)

While there are superficial similarities, these are two completely different situations. Batman launched an entire genre, techniques, creators and actors, as well as a renaissance in the way we viewed superheroes, and heroes in general. Transformers launched... an attempt from a toy company to squeeze their IP's for all they were worth. And a couple of dumb 'splodey movies. Not really on the same scale.

I luvz typing at 3 in the morning!

Great stuff Bob and I agree. I didn't watch this movie until after I'd already seen some of the Spider-Man movies and in comparison to them, it really seemed pretty shit (I didn't even bother with the sequels). It's influence on superhero movies is undeniable however and if I hadn't already been spoiled by the incredible Spider-Man movies and Batman cartoons I'm sure I probably would have enjoyed it.

DVS BSTrD:
I get all the symbolism behind it, but I've always hated that cat suit.

Someone can hate that Catwoman suit. A little confession here, but Pheiffer has always been my favourite idea of Catwoman. Sorta evil, sorta not. She's a great example of a full character who just happens to be sexy without being only a sex object (she does have here own motivations).

KoDOmega:
Awesome.

That said... Bob. At least MENTION the not-nearly-as-culturally-significant but fun-as-all-hell 1966 Batman movie. Like, don't get me wrong, it's horrible, but in the BEST POSSIBLE WAY. I mean, the origin of shark repellent spray! "Sometimes you just can't get rid of a bomb!" The fact that said repelled shark EXPLODES ONCE BATMAN GETS RID OF IT!

I'm not saying redo your entire review, but a NOD to it would be FANTASTIC.

That movie is so terrible it's awesome. I can't actually watch it without the commentary anymore though.

YES! I have been saying all this for years! Burton's Batman is no where near the masterpiece older nerds make it out to be. There's a ton of stuff in the movie that breaks Batman cannon. For its toted realism, still suffers from an overabundance of really silly shit, and not just Joker moments either.

I never considered just how influential Batman '89 was. Good insights, Bob.

Now that I think of it, it's probably responsible for that dark, neo-noir look that so many modern genre films make use of. Even though Batman '89's cinematography has not aged well at all.

e.wlmo4:
To your no other movie being as influential I throw another film into the ring. Transformers (unfortunately). When so many films are trying to ape it's general look and leading to so many brands that would never be considered for adaptation it's affect is obvious. A large amount of this may suck, but at least it lead to Hasbro going through all it's brands and making a certain equine based show.

I don't know that Transformers has proved its lasting influence just yet. But it will be interesting to see how much future Hollywood trends will be shaped by the overseas markets. Battleship, G.I. Joe: Rise of Cobra, and Battle: Los Angeles are the first three movies that come to my mind when you mention the influence of Transformers. All three were panned by critics, and none of them did exceptionally well in the domestic market, but all made big profits thanks to overseas box office.

Grrr. Bane may not have been built to be enduring, but he was great.

So I take it this is a four parters since you spend this video on the first film?
Do you really need to explain how influential for most of the video (after the whole no DC animated universe? We get it, it was that much of a big deal!

I guess I should rewatch that film again to see the flaws to that film. Yes I know you said it wasn't a bad film but surely it can't be bad as 3 and 4? Also I got to ask with the flaws and nitpick of that film, if you were to make a Batman film yourself Moviebob, what will be like (setting, cast, plot and etc)?

I have to state this before he gets to Batman and Robin. I love Batman and Robin. It was fun and funny. Everyone hates it for whatever reason, but I love the obsertity of it. I also love David Hasslehoff's Nick Fury much more that Samuel 'mother fucking' Jackson. It's just who I am.

I thought Batman (89) was great at the time, particularly Nicholson's performance, but when I watched it again a couple of years ago I thought it hadn't aged well, at all. It just feels sillier than it used to. It doesn't draw me in, and so I never forget for an instant that this is a movie filmed on movie sets.

Returns, on the other hand, I absolutely love. Christopher Walken, Danny DeVito and Michelle Pfeiffer are all brilliant, it has my favourite Elfman score, and although I often roll my eyes at Burton doing his gothic thing all the damn time it fits that movie perfectly.

I never really liked the movie as a kid. Something about it always made me feel nausious, stuffy and uncomfortable, like being in a room with rising damp. I've not watched it as an adult however.

DVS BSTrD:
I get all the symbolism behind it, but I've always hated that cat suit.

I always felt it defined the charater well. Damaged and barely holding together which made her unpredictable. It made for a much more intresting villan than catwomans other incarnations who are mostly just cheesecake anti-heros.

I can't wait to see MovieBob tear into Batman & Robin. Yeah, while the Nostalgia Critic already said everything that ever needed to be said about that movie, I really want to hear Bob's take.

To be honest, I never liked the 90s batman movies, although their impact was significant.

The main reason is that the comic-book styling of those movies didn't mesh well with the clunky dialog and the unrelatable characters. You knew you were watching a movie, and that just didn't work out too well...

Brad Gardner:
I have to state this before he gets to Batman and Robin. I love Batman and Robin. It was fun and funny. Everyone hates it for whatever reason, but I love the obsertity of it. I also love David Hasslehoff's Nick Fury much more that Samuel 'mother fucking' Jackson. It's just who I am.

Good Christ! I never even knew this existed. I gotta go find it now> :D

DERP I posted this in the wrong place.

i looking forward to next week, batman returns is probably the first movie i trul y remember seeing.

For me there is only one reason I love this movie: Michael Keaton. No one plays batman with that kind of quiet authority and just generally being intimidating without even trying. Also the bat-costume looks really cool before it became all bloated plastic with nipples.

Maybe Keaton playing an older Bruce Wayne/Batman in the next Batman-franchise after the Nolan-triology? That would be pretty cool!

Riddle me this, Batman: Can you really call part 1 of a multi-episode topic "The Big Picture?"

I still enjoyed Batman Returns but it is where you can see things get very silly. I mean the Penguin's penguin army with rockets strapped to them? I think I would still enjoy Batman and Batman Returns today but looking back makes you go "Whoa!" these movies are way sillier then I remember.

Anime tends to have glaring flaws but I still love it. If at its core its a good film it will still show through no matter how badly its put together.

Nice to know I'm not the only one that didn't quite get that movie. The only things I really remembered from my first watchings where when the Joker was on screen, and having to dial up the contrast to see more than black blurs. Bruce Wayne was dull, Vicky Vale was annoying, and Batman spent more time glowering than doing anything. Then in hindsight, I still think Jim Carrey in his prime would have been a far better joker than Nicholson, and while I'm no longer bored to tears, I still can't care about anything or one in the film.

I know I'll get some flack for saying this but Batman Returns is my least favorite of the Batman movies, sure the two following movies are probably worse movies but I was at least laughing the whole way through those.

The first Batman movie being flawed I don't think would surprise most people. A lot of folks have pointed out the absurdity before of how quickly he gives up his secret identity, or how he seems to be fine with killing with blowing up the factory and sending Joker to his death. But the style along with Keaton and Nicholson were enough still to make it into an icon.

Plus it gave us what is still the best Batmobile to date. I mean I like the new movies, but that tank thing is just nowhere near as badass looking despite however much more practical it may be.

AlexanderPeregrine:
I think the worst part about the Joker killing Batman's parents is not only how it's a blunt, shallow, and lazy way to up the stakes, but it also makes it feel like the whole world revolves around Bruce Wayne. It started the trend of so many action movies being downright narcissistic.

As a long time comic book reader and researcher I think this direction was effectively the only thing new that could be done with the origin.

In 1956 the comic book version of Joe Chill had been upgraded from just some random crook to a hitman hired by Mob boss Lew Moxon to take out the Waynes because Thomas had sent him to jail years before and his crusading was interfering in his current operations. The reason Bruce was let live was to provide Moxon with an alibi. So in the comics you already had this upping of the stakes.

Those stakes got upped further in Detective Comics #500 (1981) aka "To Kill a Legend" where Batman and Robin are sent to a parallel Earth to stop the murder of his parents. Knowing about the connection between Chill and Moxon they go in and threatened Moxon not realizing he hasn't met Chill yet. Scared, Moxon hires another hitman who kills Chill on his way to kill the Waynes.

Batman arrives in time and knocks the new hitman out. We never see this new hitman's face clearly but the outfit is *very* familiar--purple pants and a purple shirt--the traditional colors of the Joker.

Given all this and the time constraints of the movie all that was left was to make the purple suited hitman into the Joker.

My number one issue with the Burton Batman films is actual Micheal Keaton. I really enjoy him as an actor, and think he does a pretty competent Bruce Wayne (though totally not the brooding depressive we're used to), but I never believed him as Batman.

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