The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim - Dawnguard Review

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Shjade:

Soopy:

Shjade:

I dunno, Morrowind felt like that to me, too. It just looked uglier to boot. And had infinite diseases to annoy you with in the red mountain areas.

The story in Morrowind was infinitely better and your character had a developement process.
Skyrim, you walk out of a cave, down the road and ZOMG YOUR THE DRAGON BORN!!!!
Then you get led by the nose for a few hours and everyone ignores you.

There's definitely a more gradual climb for the Nerevarine than for the Dovahkiin, but I wouldn't say that makes it "better" by default. It just means you had more fetch quests to complete before people decided ZOMG YOU ARE THE CHOSEN ONE. It's equally arbitrary. At least in Skyrim you actually do things that pretty clearly show you are this chosen whatever, whereas in Morrowind you're basically just an adventurer who people decide must be this prophesied hero because you're doing cool stuff for them.

I don't remember any Nerevarine-specific powers akin to the Dovahkiin's inherent connection to Shouts. Maybe it's been too long since I played it, but I'm pretty sure you're just Some Adventurer and kind stumble into the whole Nerevarine deal.

As for the story: both games have pretty choppy stories by virtue of their open-ended non-linear do-what-you-want gameplay. They both struggle to keep a clean, smooth, coherent story in line when they have so much space for faffing about in between. I mean, look at what you said: you walk out of a cave, down the road and suddenly, bam, Dragonborn. Sure, that can happen. Or, if you do what the guy you exit the cave with tells you to do (Split up, don't follow me), you could end up going the other way, find yourself in Falkreath, and before you know it a month has passed and you're embroiled in the conflict between the Forsaken and the far west city with the name I can't remember off the top of my head with no one having mentioned anything about this Dragonborn business.

To me, Morrowind and Skyrim feel pretty much the same in terms of story quality, in that I didn't really play either of them for the story (as I find neither compelling in that respect). For the open world and gameplay, however, Skyrim definitely has the upper hand. I will say I seem to recall I liked the factioning setup of Morrowind more, though. I dunno, maybe I just miss the Morag Tong.

The thing with the Nevarine was that the only reason the things you did, could be done, was because you were Lord Nervar incarnate. Sure there wasn't much flash to it, but it was what it was.
If you followed the story line from start to finish without veering off, it flowed pretty well and after all was said and done,the world did change.

Skyrim, not so much. Most of the story progression is spurred by an completely arbitrary event as the antagonist did bugger all after the opening scene. I mean, we could have just ignored Alduin's little escapade and the world wouldn't have been effected even in the slightest. At least there was the plaque in Morrowind, 6th house assassins and political conspiracy to give the character some reason to persu the antagonist (who's motives aren't even immediately clear).

Steve Butts:
Whether you decide to fully embrace your vampire destiny, or else take up arms against a sea of blood-suckers, the story beats and quests are far too similar. The NPCs, goals and locations don't really change. All that matters is whether the vampire powers are being used by or against you.

This sums up my gripe with Skyrim's civil war arc too. It would have been nice to see two completely different quest lines so on replay you get to experience fresh content but alas..!

Whats the final vote on the crossbows? Worth the wait?

Duffeknol:
So more of exactly what I disliked about Skyrim to begin with. Impactless, consequence-free gameplay. Just a few extra toys fill the meaningless game world with.

But now it's stupid vampire toys!

That's something right?

Gods, I hate vampires...

So, what you're saying is...it's a Skyrim add on, where the quests don't actually matter, it keeps waggling it's eyes provocatively about certain ways to play, and the people continue to not react properly to things. I'd say I'd wait for this, but since I'll be waiting anyway, this claim stands there picking it's nose for all the weight it carries.

RvLeshrac:

Duffeknol:
So more of exactly what I disliked about Skyrim to begin with. Impactless, consequence-free gameplay. Just a few extra toys fill the meaningless game world with.

So much this.

That reminds me of Oblivion. No wonder I prefered Fallout 3.

Durgiun:

RvLeshrac:

Duffeknol:
So more of exactly what I disliked about Skyrim to begin with. Impactless, consequence-free gameplay. Just a few extra toys fill the meaningless game world with.

So much this.

That reminds me of Oblivion. No wonder I prefered Fallout 3.

Skyrim makes Oblivion look like a literary masterpiece.

Steve, there are a fair few typos in your article! Just giving you a heads up.

Conn1496:
Yeah, I never really liked Skyrim as much as Oblivion, and this DLC, and other people's comments really are justifying my point. I'm starting to think that the success of Bethesda's recent games has gotten to their head somewhat, and when a large majority of Oblivion fans weren't too impressed with Skyrim, they just lobbed in a load of stuff people were asking for in Oblivion to make it appeal to them too. I heard countless people request Horse-back combat, Crossbows, Polearms, and almost an extra god knows how much of Dawnguard's content for Oblivion back when, and now they just throw them in like mad. If they put in throwing weapons (A well missed concept from earlier Elder Scrolls games.) in the next Skyrim DLC, I think it's fair to declare it official that Bethesda are just trying too hard to appeal to everyone. I think it's also pretty fair to say that a good majority of people only bought Skyrim because of the stupid "arrow to the knee" joke (If you can call it that.), or Oblivion's success. I may sound like I'm bashing Skyrim for being popular, but it's just generally worse than Oblivion in every aspect, and not even all that good without comparison anyway. I must say, though, the graphics of Skyrim were actually awfully impressve (With few exceptions.), with special mention going to improved beast races, especially Khajiits (Though the horns on Argonians really didn't quite suit, and were probably just added to make them look closer to dragons. I want my Dorsal Ridges god damnit!... However, the head feathers were pretty cool. Still rather have ridges, mind you.).

Wait...so you're complaining that Bethesda suck because they are trying to appeal to everyone.
And then you're complaining that Bethesda suck because they changed the game in a way you don't like and are failing to appeal to you.

umm...ok

You think people only bought Skyrim because of the Arrow In The Knee joke? Are you insane?
That's like saying "People only bought Gears of War because Yatzee often talks about Chest High Walls"

I would disagree about Skyrim being worse than Oblivion.
I would actually say that there are some things which Oblivion and Morrowind did better, but that Skyrim does it's own thing and does it well. Although I must admit that I do miss the rough voices of the Dunmer in Skyrim.

Shjade:

Soopy:

Shjade:

I dunno, Morrowind felt like that to me, too. It just looked uglier to boot. And had infinite diseases to annoy you with in the red mountain areas.

The story in Morrowind was infinitely better and your character had a developement process.
Skyrim, you walk out of a cave, down the road and ZOMG YOUR THE DRAGON BORN!!!!
Then you get led by the nose for a few hours and everyone ignores you.

There's definitely a more gradual climb for the Nerevarine than for the Dovahkiin, but I wouldn't say that makes it "better" by default. It just means you had more fetch quests to complete before people decided ZOMG YOU ARE THE CHOSEN ONE. It's equally arbitrary. At least in Skyrim you actually do things that pretty clearly show you are this chosen whatever, whereas in Morrowind you're basically just an adventurer who people decide must be this prophesied hero because you're doing cool stuff for them.

I don't remember any Nerevarine-specific powers akin to the Dovahkiin's inherent connection to Shouts. Maybe it's been too long since I played it, but I'm pretty sure you're just Some Adventurer and kind stumble into the whole Nerevarine deal.

Shouts are basically just spells that they replaced with a special graphic. Its actually because of shouts that bein a mage has so fewer options than they did in previous games.

It was my biggest gripe with the gameplay honestly. I always played a Mage, but shouts were retarded and I didnt want to use them. However if I didnt want to use them I missed out on several essential spells because there are no equivalent spells to the shouts.

Duffeknol:
So more of exactly what I disliked about Skyrim to begin with. Impactless, consequence-free gameplay. Just a few extra toys fill the meaningless game world with.

Yeah, this is by far the biggest problem I have with Skyrim. The environments are gorgeous, and exploring is truly fun, but it all doesn't matter in the end. Sure, the dungeons are infinitely better than Oblivion's, and likewise the story missions are a bit more involved than "go there, fetch and/or kill X&Y," but there's no lasting impact on the world. Hell, there are still Stormcloak camps I can't clear out, because some prick leader of theirs must be invincible. Likewise, what does it matter if I'm the archmage now? Winterhold is still a decrepit village. You can kill the emperor for crying out loud, and there are no in-game consequences. My favorite example of this is actually the conclusion of the civil war portion of the story, after which the corpse of Ulfric was still in his throne room, despite the new Jarl having taken up residence there. Nobody bothered to react to it, even after set his corpse on the table and did nasty things to it. While this consequence free thing is fun at first, it gets boring after a while. I want to be able to fail, I want to be able to help or destroy communities in the world, I want characters to acknowledge what I have and have not done. In short, I want a living world. Hell, if the 12 year old Deus Ex can acknowledge how I completed a mission and have the characters respond accordingly (or that whole harassment thing with the women's restroom...), why the hell can't Skyrim? I don't think I'll buy the DLC just yet. Maybe when it's on sale at some point, but not for full price.

Mahorfeus:
but at least I can say that my arrows blot out the sun.[/spoiler]

Then we shall fight you in the shade.....

WanderingFool:

To be honest, I was planning on buy skyrim when it came out as GOTY edition. Same deal with Fallout, no point buying the game and the DLC seperate when its cheaper to wait.

Personally I don't agree. I'm glad to pay the full price for a game I think is worth the money. So I was happy to spring for Steam's Skyrim pre-purchase, and I'll be glad to buy this DLC, which looks to be pretty cool!

That, I guess, is pretty much how one should show ones interest and love for a game though. Are you willing to pay full price for the game? If not, you should indeed wait and get a better deal on it. Support the developers as much as you see fit (but don't pirate... Thats not cool =p), but expect to wait a while.

shintakie10:

It was my biggest gripe with the gameplay honestly. I always played a Mage, but shouts were retarded and I didnt want to use them. However if I didnt want to use them I missed out on several essential spells because there are no equivalent spells to the shouts.

Yay for mods! There are several great mods that add loads of awesome, cool looking and lore-friendly spells to the game. This is what makes mod support so great, if there is something not quite to your liking it's very likely that someone else agrees, and made a mod to change that.

My personal mod list is packed XD.

I'm still waiting for the GOTY edition of Skyrim, or maybe the Deluxe GOTY edition, where they actually include ALL the DLC

Really don't know whether I want to get this or not. I'm just worried the DLC is going to be like every other quest in Skyrim: Talk to guy, go to city, talk to another guy, go to another city. The pattern repeats, so that I don't get into quests, I just watch a load of loading screens.

But Vampireeeeee!! Hard choice.

JasonBurnout16:
Really don't know whether I want to get this or not. I'm just worried the DLC is going to be like every other quest in Skyrim: Talk to guy, go to city, talk to another guy, go to another city. The pattern repeats, so that I don't get into quests, I just watch a load of loading screens.

But Vampireeeeee!! Hard choice.

They literally send you from one corner of the map to the other about 15 times.

It's like the KOTN but going from Anvil to Cheydinhall and back for every quest. I usually don't fast travel, but I couldn't see the value in walking past the same land marks 15 times.

Does the DLC have many new enviroment textures, art assets, models, ect?

Soopy:

JasonBurnout16:
Really don't know whether I want to get this or not. I'm just worried the DLC is going to be like every other quest in Skyrim: Talk to guy, go to city, talk to another guy, go to another city. The pattern repeats, so that I don't get into quests, I just watch a load of loading screens.

But Vampireeeeee!! Hard choice.

They literally send you from one corner of the map to the other about 15 times.

It's like the KOTN but going from Anvil to Cheydinhall and back for every quest. I usually don't fast travel, but I couldn't see the value in walking past the same land marks 15 times.

See that's what I hate about a lot of the current open world games. You get given a quest by someone saying something like "Oh he just wandered out of town, he'll be in the local forest", then you check your map and it turns out that 'near town' is about a twenty minute walk away through some mountains and past a lake or something. It's quite similar to Kingdoms of Amalur in that respect - that game is ridiculous for sending you miles away for pointless quests.

QUESTION: Are any new monsters introduced? I don't mind about spoilers, I just want to know if there is added variety.

JasonBurnout16:

Soopy:

JasonBurnout16:
Really don't know whether I want to get this or not. I'm just worried the DLC is going to be like every other quest in Skyrim: Talk to guy, go to city, talk to another guy, go to another city. The pattern repeats, so that I don't get into quests, I just watch a load of loading screens.

But Vampireeeeee!! Hard choice.

They literally send you from one corner of the map to the other about 15 times.

It's like the KOTN but going from Anvil to Cheydinhall and back for every quest. I usually don't fast travel, but I couldn't see the value in walking past the same land marks 15 times.

See that's what I hate about a lot of the current open world games. You get given a quest by someone saying something like "Oh he just wandered out of town, he'll be in the local forest", then you check your map and it turns out that 'near town' is about a twenty minute walk away through some mountains and past a lake or something. It's quite similar to Kingdoms of Amalur in that respect - that game is ridiculous for sending you miles away for pointless quests.

It's not a problem with sandbox games as such, more so developers using that as a padding aid to make the quest seem longer. I mean, if the quests in Skyrim all happened directly outside the city you got them from, the game would be 50% shorter. And it is if you fast travel.

Yes, there are new monsters. Gargoyles, armoured trolls and some new Charus monsters to name a few.

So apparently no one played far enough to get the exploding crossbow bolts. That's part was pretty badass.

Soopy:

JasonBurnout16:

Soopy:

They literally send you from one corner of the map to the other about 15 times.

It's like the KOTN but going from Anvil to Cheydinhall and back for every quest. I usually don't fast travel, but I couldn't see the value in walking past the same land marks 15 times.

See that's what I hate about a lot of the current open world games. You get given a quest by someone saying something like "Oh he just wandered out of town, he'll be in the local forest", then you check your map and it turns out that 'near town' is about a twenty minute walk away through some mountains and past a lake or something. It's quite similar to Kingdoms of Amalur in that respect - that game is ridiculous for sending you miles away for pointless quests.

It's not a problem with sandbox games as such, more so developers using that as a padding aid to make the quest seem longer. I mean, if the quests in Skyrim all happened directly outside the city you got them from, the game would be 50% shorter. And it is if you fast travel.

Yes, there are new monsters. Gargoyles, armoured trolls and some new Charus monsters to name a few.

I mined a shellbug. I hated myself immediately. Why would the game trick me into that? So evil.

Oh and I play Dawnguard, not vampire. Purely because I'm a werewolf, who now have a proper perk tree and it's actually advantageous to play as one now. And there were these mentions of 'Totems' in the perks, and since I have no werewolf abilities, there must be some sort of quest associated.
My brother plays vampire, I play werewolf - it's usually how we handle multiple choice storylines. I'm good guy, he's bad guy. His vampire lord seems more suited to levelling up in combat, but it didn't look as satisfying as cutting a gory swathe across Skyrim as a werewolf, where I gained perks from devouring the corpses of, first the people, then the animals I killed.

And...seemingly randomly - my brother created a Breton female archer/spellcaster, and after an awkward debacle in the Riverwood inn, a courier showed up. In his underwear.
"I've got a package here. Your hands only."

Now those look like vampires. Not the bullshit "Our skin gets paler and we can eat people's necks in their sleep" bullshit that TES has had going for awhile. This is Nosferatu stuff.

Looks good. Too bad it's not out on PC yet :l

$20 seems a fair price to me when you compare Dawnguard to other Bethesda add-ons. It's not as large and expansive as Shivering Isles (which was $30), but it's much more interesting and substantial than Knights of the Nine and a lot of the Fallout 3/NV dlc.

I actually found the first half of the dlc up to and including the Soul Cairn to be really quite dull. However, the second half of the dlc was quite superb, especially the part where you travel to the Forgotten Vale. Skyrim never looked so darn pretty!

Daveman:

Steve Butts:
The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim - Dawnguard Review

... at the end of the video... was that you trying to murder some butterflies with vampire powers? That's dark man... like "supporting the Stormcloaks unironicly" dark.

Screw those butterflies.

Thyunda:

Soopy:

JasonBurnout16:

See that's what I hate about a lot of the current open world games. You get given a quest by someone saying something like "Oh he just wandered out of town, he'll be in the local forest", then you check your map and it turns out that 'near town' is about a twenty minute walk away through some mountains and past a lake or something. It's quite similar to Kingdoms of Amalur in that respect - that game is ridiculous for sending you miles away for pointless quests.

It's not a problem with sandbox games as such, more so developers using that as a padding aid to make the quest seem longer. I mean, if the quests in Skyrim all happened directly outside the city you got them from, the game would be 50% shorter. And it is if you fast travel.

Yes, there are new monsters. Gargoyles, armoured trolls and some new Charus monsters to name a few.

I mined a shellbug. I hated myself immediately. Why would the game trick me into that? So evil.

Oh and I play Dawnguard, not vampire. Purely because I'm a werewolf, who now have a proper perk tree and it's actually advantageous to play as one now. And there were these mentions of 'Totems' in the perks, and since I have no werewolf abilities, there must be some sort of quest associated.
My brother plays vampire, I play werewolf - it's usually how we handle multiple choice storylines. I'm good guy, he's bad guy. His vampire lord seems more suited to levelling up in combat, but it didn't look as satisfying as cutting a gory swathe across Skyrim as a werewolf, where I gained perks from devouring the corpses of, first the people, then the animals I killed.

And...seemingly randomly - my brother created a Breton female archer/spellcaster, and after an awkward debacle in the Riverwood inn, a courier showed up. In his underwear.
"I've got a package here. Your hands only."

If you go back to the companions and do some quests with, eh... I forgot her name... the red head werewolf gal (if she isn't dead). She gives you a few quests over time that earn you totems.

The totems change a few things (there are 4 I think), but more often then not they make it worse. For example, 1 totem changes your howl so instead of making enemies flee it allows you to see enemies through walls, but this actually makes using a werewolf more difficulty since the terror howl enabled you to fight multiple enemies and feed during fights. The new perk tree might actually improve that, but I have yet to see whats on it.

OT: Skyrim seems to have garnered a lot of anti-fans on this site. The game seems to be doing tremendously well and I'm really looking forward to this DLC... I hope Beth keep adding free content, some of those stealth additions shown in the game jam would be most welcome. Also, enchanted arrows, make it happen.

I will say at the very least Bethesda FINALLY put an NPC in the game that didn't feel like a mannequin. Serana I found to be very interesting with some actual depth to her. Plus it helps that she's voiced by Laura Bailey (a.k.a. Catherine, Chun-li, Platinum the Trinity, and a BILLION anime voices) who actually puts some emotion and effort into her lines.

It's frustrating that the first DLC for Skyrim assumes that everyone loves or wants to be a vampire. Vampires are lame.

I love the idea of being vampire hunter. That just sounds like it could've been a B.A. experience... but in Skyrim it is not.

It would've been nice if the Dawnguard had some sort of powers to make them worth playing as much as the vamp.

Soopy:
The thing with the Nevarine was that the only reason the things you did, could be done, was because you were Lord Nervar incarnate. Sure there wasn't much flash to it, but it was what it was.

Skyrim, not so much. Most of the story progression is spurred by an completely arbitrary event as the antagonist did bugger all after the opening scene. I mean, we could have just ignored Alduin's little escapade and the world wouldn't have been effected even in the slightest. At least there was the plaque in Morrowind, 6th house assassins and political conspiracy to give the character some reason to persu the antagonist (who's motives aren't even immediately clear).

In theory, sure. In practice, the only reason you make that claim is because that's what you're told. Nothing that happens in the game ever proves that claim; nothing really demonstrates that you are, in fact, the incarnation of anything other than a badass. The Dovahkiin can prove he/she is that thing because of the Shouts. The Nerevarine has no such concrete claim. You're basically just told, "You're this guy. Trust me." And that's that.

As for antagonists, if you want to compare Alduin with Dagoth, at least Alduin is present in the game. 99% of Morrowind's plot is spent running around doing seemingly arbitrary things that you only know are necessary because people swear to you that they are; you don't even meet the big bad until about five minutes before you kill him, much less interact with him in any significant way. Alduin might be an inconsistently present threat, but Dagoth Ur is comatose by comparison to the dragon's activity. Could just as well "defeat" him by keeping the mountain sealed off and ignoring it as far as I could ever tell by playing the game. Alduin may only be flying around waking up dead dragons, but at least it's something you can see happening.

shintakie10:

Shouts are basically just spells that they replaced with a special graphic. Its actually because of shouts that bein a mage has so fewer options than they did in previous games.

It was my biggest gripe with the gameplay honestly. I always played a Mage, but shouts were retarded and I didnt want to use them. However if I didnt want to use them I missed out on several essential spells because there are no equivalent spells to the shouts.

Yeah, I'm torn on whether I like the shout system or not. On the one hand, it makes playing non-mage characters have a lot more variety compared with the previous games (in which playing a warrior/rogue consists solely of "continue swinging until dead"). On the other, it really does strip down the merits of magic, particularly coupled with the already much streamlined magic system compared with past games in the series (though, granted, I kinda hated the old magic system, so while I recognize the oversimplification taking place, I can't say I mourn the loss of the old build-your-own-spells feature overmuch).

As a story mechanic, however - which is why I brought it up - they do indisputably mark you as That Guy for purposes of being their chosen person for the plot, as compared with just some helpful adventurer who happens to be saving the world (see above re: Nerevarine).

Wings?
Well, goodbye lycantropy.

Shjade:

Soopy:
The thing with the Nevarine was that the only reason the things you did, could be done, was because you were Lord Nervar incarnate. Sure there wasn't much flash to it, but it was what it was.

Skyrim, not so much. Most of the story progression is spurred by an completely arbitrary event as the antagonist did bugger all after the opening scene. I mean, we could have just ignored Alduin's little escapade and the world wouldn't have been effected even in the slightest. At least there was the plaque in Morrowind, 6th house assassins and political conspiracy to give the character some reason to persu the antagonist (who's motives aren't even immediately clear).

In theory, sure. In practice, the only reason you make that claim is because that's what you're told. Nothing that happens in the game ever proves that claim; nothing really demonstrates that you are, in fact, the incarnation of anything other than a badass. The Dovahkiin can prove he/she is that thing because of the Shouts. The Nerevarine has no such concrete claim. You're basically just told, "You're this guy. Trust me." And that's that.

As for antagonists, if you want to compare Alduin with Dagoth, at least Alduin is present in the game. 99% of Morrowind's plot is spent running around doing seemingly arbitrary things that you only know are necessary because people swear to you that they are; you don't even meet the big bad until about five minutes before you kill him, much less interact with him in any significant way. Alduin might be an inconsistently present threat, but Dagoth Ur is comatose by comparison to the dragon's activity. Could just as well "defeat" him by keeping the mountain sealed off and ignoring it as far as I could ever tell by playing the game. Alduin may only be flying around waking up dead dragons, but at least it's something you can see happening.

What you're describing is a very simple, mainstream-friendly plot, which is probably why we were given just that in Skyrim. Morrowind's story was a lot better than Skyrim's. It had craft, style, emotion, depth, intrigue, mystery and so on that was missing or fell flat in Skyrim. The Dovahkiin is the first player character who is a superman. The Nerevarine and the Champion of Cyrodiil were just badass dudes fulfilling a prophecy. I think that is a much better story but the superman approach has broader appeal.

I agree to some extent. They had an explanation for why you had to unite the Great Houses and such but it was kind of weak and it wasn't expressed in gameplay. You can take Nibani Maesa and Caius Cosades' word that it's a practical necessity but the player does not experience any evidence of that. I also agree that Elder Scrolls games do not lend themselves to race-against-the-clock storytelling, which is what they have done in III, IV, and V. If you know you can't do it justice then don't do it. But it wasn't emphasized nearly as much in Morrowind.

However, I think Morrowind's approach to the Nerevarine had a lot more craft and style than Skyrim's Dovahkiin and was way more emotionally rewarding. Basically all the things you are criticizing are things I liked. There were elements of mystery and discovery in Morrowind. No one knew if the prophecy was real or if you were it's fulfillment. Not even the player knew until you received Azura's blessing and met the failed Nerevarines. Even then, many remained skeptical including the Blades themselves. This doubt left room for political intrigue, mystery and more rewarding challenges. The mystery, skepticism, and divided loyalties made the story better, not worse. Skyrim missed an opportunity by not doing this, but I guess they couldn't copy Morrowind too closely. Not everyone believes you are the Nerevarine, and that made the story more exciting.

On the other hand, you know you are because you piece it together before being flatly told. You fulfill the prophecies as you go, you wield his artifacts that only he can wield, and finally a freaking Daedric Prince tells you so and makes you it's champion. You have the powers the Nerevarine is supposed to possess like resistance to all diseases including the dreaded corprus. That was a pretty clear and dramatic demonstration. It may not have been as dramatic as the dragon shouts but it wasn't ambiguous either. And like I said, you're not supposed to be superman. Just a badass.

In Morrowind you spent your time fighting an active and dangerous Sixth House Cult. You even get accosted and attacked in cities by sleepers and dreamers. You certainly saw all that happening. There's nothing wrong with saving the big-bad for the final showdown as long as it's built up properly and given interesting relevance to the audience, which it was.

When you finally became the Nerevarine, it was very rewarding because it not only resolved a mystery but also served as pay-off for all your work so far. In Skyrim you just kind of get it at the beginning. And you don't even know or care what a Dragonborn is because the game did not build up to it like in Morrowind. It wasn't exactly an emotional high point. I can't think of any emotional high points in Skyrim to be honest, even though it was packed with interesting stuff. Maybe Sovengarde, but that was more about the concept. All it really had was the appeal of being superman. I liked Skyrim's story, honest I did. It just doesn't compare to Morrowind.

Rooster Cogburn:
On the other hand, you know you are because you piece it together before being flatly told. You fulfill the prophecies as you go, you wield his artifacts that only he can wield, and finally a freaking Daedric Prince tells you so and makes you it's champion. You have the powers the Nerevarine is supposed to possess like resistance to all diseases including the dreaded corprus. That was a pretty clear and dramatic demonstration. It may not have been as dramatic as the dragon shouts but it wasn't ambiguous either. And like I said, you're not supposed to be superman. Just a badass.

In Morrowind you spent your time fighting an active and dangerous Sixth House Cult. You even get accosted and attacked in cities by sleepers and dreamers. You certainly saw all that happening. There's nothing wrong with saving the big-bad for the final showdown as long as it's built up properly and given interesting relevance to the audience, which it was.

Ah, I knew I'd forgotten things. Disease resistance when facing a foe whose major strength seems to be disease certainly is a pretty good thing! Maybe I'm just too pragmatic a person, but from my point of view the whole Nerevarine thing was never all that big an issue because, well, it was irrelevant. Most of the tasks given were things anyone seemed capable of doing with proper training and experience, so I pretty much assumed it didn't matter if people calling me Nerevarine were right or not - same things getting done either way. Legends based on kernel of truth, etc.

As for the other bit, though, I can't say I interpret being attacked by crazies as a representation of a big bad thing doing bad things. Crazy people do crazy stuff; if it wasn't for Dagoth Ur it'd be for something else. For all I knew their cult was based on something that didn't even exist anymore, much less pose a threat to anyone. It's hard to be motivated to combat an antagonist that isn't...well, antagonizing. I was happy to kill the cultists and dreamers when they wanted to kill me, sure, but all that told me is crazies wanted to kill me.

I think the major point we both agree on is Bethesda's choice of driving plots for their TES games has been...ill-advised, let's say. "Really, this dragon-raising business is that urgent, is it? It can't wait for me to spend a few months bailing out miners' daughters from being kidnapped by fanatics or chilling with cannibals in a cave? ...oh, it can wait? Cool, I'll get back to you on that Dovahkiin thing, then." Yeah, that's some compelling stuff. -.-

Not sure if it's a good thing or a bad thing that now I'm not in much of a rush to buy this.
Saves me Łs but it means I'm not excited over this DLC.

Shjade:

Rooster Cogburn:
On the other hand, you know you are because you piece it together before being flatly told. You fulfill the prophecies as you go, you wield his artifacts that only he can wield, and finally a freaking Daedric Prince tells you so and makes you it's champion. You have the powers the Nerevarine is supposed to possess like resistance to all diseases including the dreaded corprus. That was a pretty clear and dramatic demonstration. It may not have been as dramatic as the dragon shouts but it wasn't ambiguous either. And like I said, you're not supposed to be superman. Just a badass.

In Morrowind you spent your time fighting an active and dangerous Sixth House Cult. You even get accosted and attacked in cities by sleepers and dreamers. You certainly saw all that happening. There's nothing wrong with saving the big-bad for the final showdown as long as it's built up properly and given interesting relevance to the audience, which it was.

Ah, I knew I'd forgotten things. Disease resistance when facing a foe whose major strength seems to be disease certainly is a pretty good thing! Maybe I'm just too pragmatic a person, but from my point of view the whole Nerevarine thing was never all that big an issue because, well, it was irrelevant. Most of the tasks given were things anyone seemed capable of doing with proper training and experience, so I pretty much assumed it didn't matter if people calling me Nerevarine were right or not - same things getting done either way. Legends based on kernel of truth, etc.

As for the other bit, though, I can't say I interpret being attacked by crazies as a representation of a big bad thing doing bad things. Crazy people do crazy stuff; if it wasn't for Dagoth Ur it'd be for something else. For all I knew their cult was based on something that didn't even exist anymore, much less pose a threat to anyone. It's hard to be motivated to combat an antagonist that isn't...well, antagonizing. I was happy to kill the cultists and dreamers when they wanted to kill me, sure, but all that told me is crazies wanted to kill me.

I think the major point we both agree on is Bethesda's choice of driving plots for their TES games has been...ill-advised, let's say. "Really, this dragon-raising business is that urgent, is it? It can't wait for me to spend a few months bailing out miners' daughters from being kidnapped by fanatics or chilling with cannibals in a cave? ...oh, it can wait? Cool, I'll get back to you on that Dovahkiin thing, then." Yeah, that's some compelling stuff. -.-

I think we're just looking for different things in the story. I like the fact that you are not a superman in Morrowind. You're just an adventurer who gets caught up in larger things and discovers power within himself/herself. The tasks given to you were suitably epic, you just have to understand that the Nerevarine is about fulfilling prophecy. It's not a magic cape. To me that would cheapen it.

The people who attacked you were driven to madness by Dagoth Ur's evil powers and the Sixth House Cult. If you didn't stop it from spreading, everyone would become his corprus beasts or dead. He had extensive fortifications all over Vvardenfell and about a third of it was lost to his abominations. And they were pretty frickin' scary. I mean this kind of relates to the ticking clock thing- nothing is that threatening because in the back of your mind you know Balmora isn't really about to erupt in violence. But it's not like the threat was totally absent.

I understand why Bethesda writes stories that way. Obviously, the easiest and laziest way to create drama is to threaten that the world is going to blow up like now. I actually liked the story in Fallout 3 a lot because they didn't do that for once.

I'll be honest, I was hoping for more. I guess one of the downsides to this DLC is it adds a lot of little things that improves what's there (to some extent) but adds so little that truly feels new. I loved their treatment of some of the environments, but it really was just more of the same, and the one new-new environment was so completely empty, it felt like the world's most sprawling afterthought. Which, is rather sad. So much missed opportunity to play up that bleak, desolate area and make it something interesting that went almost fully unrealized. With what's there, they could have eliminated 80% of that map's real estate to the same essential goal with less empty wandering spent fighting palette-swapped baddies.

Don't get me wrong, it felt substantial in some ways, the main questline that was added was a superb "journey" plotline that really covered a lot of ground and was fun while it lasted, it just really, really felt like familiar ground, more often than not.
I'll look at it this way, and be optimistic that they have a meatier package in the works. If this is Skyrim's Tribunal, let's just bloody hope its Bloodmoon (or Shivering Isles) is coming up around the corner.

I do just want to say, though-- that thing you can do with the sun, pretty cool. Also, it gave me Soul Tear, easily my most favorite Shout now. So, there's that. Finally, one of their games has a few powers that feel like POWERS. Something they've missed the mark on often in the past.

Aiddon:
I will say at the very least Bethesda FINALLY put an NPC in the game that didn't feel like a mannequin. Serana I found to be very interesting with some actual depth to her. Plus it helps that she's voiced by Laura Bailey (a.k.a. Catherine, Chun-li, Platinum the Trinity, and a BILLION anime voices) who actually puts some emotion and effort into her lines.

I must agree with you. She has that something on her that makes her bit differend compaired to other npcs. And ofc she can tag along you though then she acts like any other npc, I don't mean npcs that usually follows you. Shes like enemy npcs who goes somewhere checking out if she heard something and one time she even began tanning leather when I was standing still.

JasonBurnout16:

QUESTION: Are any new monsters introduced? I don't mind about spoilers, I just want to know if there is added variety.

tho I haven´t played the DLC, a wiki spoke of a total of 6 new monsters and one new special named dragon

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