Jimquisition: Xbox 360 and PS3 Are Just Very Crap PCs

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Stegofreak:
For me, the one big advantage console gaming gives me, it the ability to just login and play. I used to do a lot more PC gaming than I do now and, admittedly, I often think about going back but every time I hit the same bloody login issue.

I'd have to call that into question to be honest. I own both a nice PC rig and all other consoles and consoles (with exception to the wii) are never just plug and play anymore. I just think you block out the negatives like how people block out advertisements now. Let me give you my personal example to refute this claim (not saying you are wrong but that you probably don't notice it).

Skyrim first came out I bought it on PC and my friend let me try it on the Ps3 for a little experiment. Steam let me download/install it in 15 minutes.

That is a bit of time to wait but when I put the skyrim disc in my Ps3 it said it required a firmware update to play the game. Alright its not that bad so 15 minutes it downloads the update since PSN network is kinda slow but wait now I have to wait 5 more minutes for it to install it. Alright so its taking a bit longer but no loss. I play skyrim for about 30 minutes and the game crashes on ps3 and my save file is corrupted.

On the PC version I made a few tweeks that took all of 3 minutes to look up on steam forums and apply to not have any problems for over 200 hours. The Ps3 version I got 30 minutes in after 20 minutes of waiting to install/download updates and gave it back to my friend who had the same issue and had to wait 2 weeks for bethesda to fix the issue.

PC overall time for ME is 15 minutes with tweaks is total of 18 minutes
Ps3 overall time for ME is 20 minutes with waiting for fix is 2 weeks and 20 minutes

Now this is just one example and I love my PC and all my consoles, but in my own personal experience everytime I have to put in a online pass, wait for firmware updates and installation, or just game breaking issues waiting for developer to fix, the console isn't a plug and play anymore for me.

Edit: sorry for double post.

Believe me, I know what you mean. I tried to play Grand Turismo 5 the other day and had to download 17 updates because I made the mistake of deleting it to make room for other games over the last few months.

My issue wasn't so much with the login times as it was with the updating of various login systems making it nigh on impossible for me, as a returning PC gamer, to play the games that I wanted.

Stegofreak:
Believe me, I know what you mean. I tried to play Grand Turismo 5 the other day and had to download 17 updates because I made the mistake of deleting it to make room for other games over the last few months.

My issue wasn't so much with the login times as it was with the updating of various login systems making it nigh on impossible for me, as a returning PC gamer, to play the games that I wanted.

If possible i'd love you to elaborate on updating of various login systems. I use mostly steam and GOG so i'm not sure what login systems you are referring too.

GAunderrated:

If possible i'd love you to elaborate on updating of various login systems. I use mostly steam and GOG so i'm not sure what login systems you are referring too.

My apologies, prior to the Origin account EA were using a system (we're talking 2006) whereby you logged in with a username and password. This was later, during a period I wasn't playing, updated to an email/password login which screwed up everything for my account and I lost quite an number of hours of gaming as a result. I've had the same issue occur when World of Warcraft switched from in game login to battlenet login.

As I stated in my first post though, I've no reason to see them as anything other that my own terrible luck.

Stegofreak:

GAunderrated:

If possible i'd love you to elaborate on updating of various login systems. I use mostly steam and GOG so i'm not sure what login systems you are referring too.

My apologies, prior to the Origin account EA were using a system (we're talking 2006) whereby you logged in with a username and password. This was later, during a period I wasn't playing, updated to an email/password login which screwed up everything for my account and I lost quite an number of hours of gaming as a result. I've had the same issue occur when World of Warcraft switched from in game login to battlenet login.

As I stated in my first post though, I've no reason to see them as anything other that my own terrible luck.

Ah I see what you mean now. Yes EA download manager (now origin) had/still has many problems similar to GFWL. I can't speak on WoW since i've never played it but it sounds like you were a PC gamer around 2006 when it was still quite a pain and not as streamlined. If you ever decide to give it a shot again you will notice that it has become a lot more streamlined and not as many problems as 6 years ago.

5 years ago I was telling my clanmates how much I hate steam because of a massive crashing and synching issue but now I swear by their great service because of how much they have improved with over 160 games purchased.

Consoles are still a great product in their own right but like Jim, I can't help but notice the more bloatware (appropriate term i believe) they put between me putting the disc in the console and just playing, the more I don't want to go through the hassle.

Kinda off a small tangent but a decent example for me is seeing the new xbox interface where all these ads for services and other crap I don't care about clog up the screen and I have to use the search function to find games I want. I have to search to FIND GAMES on a dedicated gaming console because its so filled with crap.

GAunderrated:
Kinda off a small tangent but a decent example for me is seeing the new xbox interface where all these ads for services and other crap I don't care about clog up the screen and I have to use the search function to find games I want. I have to search to FIND GAMES on a dedicated gaming console because its so filled with crap.

Totally agree. That's one of the reason's I decided not to replace my 360 when it packed in.

Can't we all just get along?

*reads all previous posts up til now*

image

It seems not.

Anyway, the reason that I'm mainly a console gamer is that I started off as a console gamer all those years ago and never cared enough to game on the PC, besides maybe Football Manager amongst a couple of others. My laptop does everything that I need it to do, so I continue to game on consoles for now.

I agree with what he says, but I can think of a reason to have a console.
I like to game with my friends, LAN party style, but that is impossible with PCs because they are inconvenient to move and cost a small fortune. Whereas with my PS3, I can just unplug 2 cables, stuff it in a small duffle bag, and i'm ready to go (plus it only cost me $300).

GAunderrated:

I tend to get tired of tech savvy people trying to speak for the "non-tech savvy people". My father knew nothing about computers and was mostly a construction/car guy but wanted to try computers one day because one of his friends told him how cool they are. He knew nothing about them and I gave him all the parts and the motherboard manual that comes with it, which actually tells you with diagrams where every piece goes. It took him about 2 hours to get it going his first time and 2 years later hes a bigger Tech Nerd than I am.

Now I know this doesn't account for every single person in the world but really we shouldn't be making excuses for the lazy. Anyone with a working brain and a little time can assemble a computer if they are under 55 years.

Eh... I don't know how true that is. We had an old IBM when I was a kid and I was writing games on it by the time I was five, but I can't seem to understand how to properly assemble a PC even with all of the help available online.

TK421:

GAunderrated:

I tend to get tired of tech savvy people trying to speak for the "non-tech savvy people". My father knew nothing about computers and was mostly a construction/car guy but wanted to try computers one day because one of his friends told him how cool they are. He knew nothing about them and I gave him all the parts and the motherboard manual that comes with it, which actually tells you with diagrams where every piece goes. It took him about 2 hours to get it going his first time and 2 years later hes a bigger Tech Nerd than I am.

Now I know this doesn't account for every single person in the world but really we shouldn't be making excuses for the lazy. Anyone with a working brain and a little time can assemble a computer if they are under 55 years.

Eh... I don't know how true that is. We had an old IBM when I was a kid and I was writing games on it by the time I was five, but I can't seem to understand how to properly assemble a PC even with all of the help available online.

See if this helps my friend. This is the video that I showed my friend for him to set it up. He said he had to stop it one piece at a time. If all else fails the motherboard manual shows where each piece is supposed to go.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9smMOm60gkU

The Almighty Aardvark:

cyvaris:

The Almighty Aardvark:

That would be the case if the minimum system requirements for Skyrim didn't require a Dual Core 2.0 GHz processor. Unfortunately I'm not to savvy with graphics cards so I really don't have a good idea on how either of those would stack up. Also keep in mind that I was buying for a laptop (I'm sorry, I don't think I mentioned this in my first post) and I was buying it a year ago. The cheapest I could find then that could run it on minimum settings were in the $1200 range.

My system cost me a total of $800, monitor included, it was built two years ago, it runs Skyrim on Ultra at 60fps. Your argument is invalid.

*Sigh* No it isn't. I didn't say it wasn't possible, I said I wasn't able to. This was my first time buying a computer, as I mentioned before it was a laptop. And during the two week period I watched the site, Newegg didn't have ANY Laptops under $1200 that would be able to play it. If I was looking in the wrong places, which I doubt as I've heard people recommend Newegg quite often, then I guess that was my fault. It doesn't change the fact that I wasn't able to find one under that price last year.

That is why you don't buy a laptop for gaming.

DingoDoom:

Jigero:

That because you where trying to buy a gaming laptop. Never buy pre built computers especially gaming laptops.

And no putting a computer together your self is not hard, If you have enough brains to assemble a lego kit you can assemble a PC.

seriously why does it seem the only people against PC gaming, are the people who absolutely know nothing about PC gaming.

I have to disagree with you on this. Are you implying that if I were to buy all the parts and give them to a non-tech savvy person, they would be able to build it for me? (hint: They actually can't).

The problem with people new to the PC gaming I find, is not the building of the PC, but the wiring of it. Specifically, the power supply wiring is the biggest challenge to new PC builders.

Does your power supply have enough power?
What do you do with the extra wires?
What kind of connector do you have?
Is your power supply a single rail or multi-rail?
Can your single rail power your motherboard and graphics card?
Can your multi-rail?
How much power does your graphic card need?

The above is just some of the problems JUST for the power supply which doesn't even account for the different motherboards for AMD and Intel processors (some people really don't know there is a difference), it does not count for motherboard size in comparison to case size, and most importantly, one can fry an entire system or ruin a motherboard just from the wrong wiring with a power supply (too much power, wrong place, wrong pin etc.)

You get the idea I hope, comparing building a PC to legos is laughable. If you know what you are doing before hand, either research or read, a PC is much better than a console. However, as information in the manuals that come with the parts are sometimes just crap, as was the case for me, a console does not have to worry about any of the above.

If you don't know what type of parts to get there are plenty of guides out there.

I assembled a computer for the first time in December going from just looking at the step by step instructions that came with the mother board, and maybe 3 minutes of google searches when I was slightly confused and I had Zero problems with anything. Heck this computer runs smoother, has less problems then any prebuilt or any customer computer I had some one else make for me.

If you know how to connect A wire to B slot, shit ain't hard, if you can read simple instructions you can put to together a computer.

But go ahead and keep fear mongering your entitled to your crap opinion, it just makes you look silly though.

I don't know if this has already been said but I prefer consoles to the pc because pc games now require linking with steam or origin so that you can't resell it. I don't do multiplayer and never use the codes so I have no problem reselling a console game for most of what I paid for it. Also you can rent console games, you can't rent pc games.

Those reasons are good enough for me to value console gaming over pc gaming. I used to prefer pc gaming. If the tyranny of steam ended I might like pc gaming again.

haydnfan:
I don't know if this has already been said but I prefer consoles to the pc because pc games now require linking with steam or origin so that you can't resell it. I don't do multiplayer and never use the codes so I have no problem reselling a console game for most of what I paid for it. Also you can rent console games, you can't rent pc games.

To be fair though with publishers looking to put a stop to used games what makes you think this isn't going to be in the next generation of consoles?

It's already partly there this gen with online passes and codes that lock out single player content (such as in RAGE).

So if they are willing to do that, then how long will it be before those codes lock out the entire game unless 'activated.' Then they'll charge you a fee from their respective marketplaces for an unlock code for a used copy.

As the video said, consoles are adopting the worst points of PC gaming. I wouldn't be surprised if 'activation codes' are next.

Let's see I play on smartphones, consoles, PCs, and handhelds and guess what all of them suck and all of them rock for different reasons. Why is this even a debate, I mean this is just pathetic.

Yes the PS3 and 360 are crap computers, because by definition they are a computer (Hell a Game.Com is a computer).

Are the people who need to argue this feel like they are right and perfect because you really need to get over yourselves. I mean you can tell me why PC gaming is god till you die of exhaustion but I'm just gonna go back to my Console/Handheld, and the same should go for everyone. This stupid divide that people like Jim is wedging even farther apart is childish and pathetic. This is why gaming is going to hit a slump because people feel the need to build this alliances to X system, Y Series, and Z company, pull your head out of your asses and just play games because they are fun damn.

Jigero:

If you know how to connect A wire to B slot, shit ain't hard, if you can read simple instructions you can put to together a computer.

But go ahead and keep fear mongering your entitled to your crap opinion, it just makes you look silly though.

Right, it is simple enough that people create guides and youtube videos about putting PC together because it is so easy right? I was disagreeing with your comparison legos and PC building.

Tell you what, go get some PC parts and randomly pick strangers from the streets and ask them to assemble a computer with just the manuals, no outside help, research, or looking at guides. More often then not, a new PC builder will have some trouble with assembling a computer.

I'm not fear mongering, I'm just saying that with a console, a person does not have to worry about building anything, which is the point of a console.

But go ahead and keep your shoving your entitled elitist opinion down anyone, it just makes you look ignorant.

I will edit this post later since I haven't watched the video yet. But I'm a console gamer mostly. Gaming on a keyboard is a pain for me, hurts my hands. Sure, the mouse is way more accurate than a thumbstick, and many games have mods to accept controllers now. But I've already got that convenient option with my 360(my preferred console to be honest, if only for the controller). Plus, I don't have to worry about my PC not being powerful enough to even run a new game. I buy Skyrim for the 360, it will run for the 360 no fiddling with it at all except for a LIVE update. Sure it doesn't run as pretty or smooth but it still WORKS and the core experience is the same. Hell, I feel drawn OUT of a game on PC when I have to use a keyboard, simply because I have to look to see what I'm hitting.

Plus, financially a really good gaming PC is FAR more expensive than either major console nowadays. I feel more comfortable with consoles, sure they have their limitations when compared to a fully decked out gaming PC but hey I take what I can get. The one I have now is a pre-built HP that can JUST run The Witcher...and I mean BARELY on the absolute lowest graphical settings despite the fact I checked and double-checked that it would run right. However, if I buy The Witcher 2 for the 360 it will run and be playable even if it looks rough and it "only" has 30fps.

Jigero:
[quote="xshadowscreamx" post="6.381364.15029729"]the fanboys are assembled......i do like being able to trade games, but they like bleed the money from us with there 10 doller online pass, but thats not with all developers (but it will grow though)...when was the last pc exclusive game..other then ''error 37''... hard reset?

jigero qoute PC's usually has more exclusives then consoles do. PC had almost 3 times the amount of exclusives then the 360 and about as much as the PS3 last year. qoute jigero

yes there is a lot of exclusive point and click mysteries games on the shelf..oh you mean through steam,not everyone can get there hands on digital distribution. im talking about BIG exclusives like MGS,THE LAST OF US,BEYOND TWO SOULS,HEAVY RAIN,HALO 4,SHADOW OF THE COLLOSES/ICO i could go on and on..these are the games that the world takes notice of......however i would like to play amnesia on pc and the walking dead episodes

edit: sorry i kind of f*^&% that up and canceled the quote i was quoting to..which was from jigero

xshadowscreamx:

Jigero:
[quote="xshadowscreamx" post="6.381364.15029729"]the fanboys are assembled......i do like being able to trade games, but they like bleed the money from us with there 10 doller online pass, but thats not with all developers (but it will grow though)...when was the last pc exclusive game..other then ''error 37''... hard reset?

jigero qoute PC's usually has more exclusives then consoles do. PC had almost 3 times the amount of exclusives then the 360 and about as much as the PS3 last year. qoute jigero

yes there is a lot of exclusive point and click mysteries games on the shelf..oh you mean through steam,not everyone can get there hands on digital distribution. im talking about BIG exclusives like MGS,THE LAST OF US,BEYOND TWO SOULS,HEAVY RAIN,HALO 4,SHADOW OF THE COLLOSES/ICO i could go on and on..these are the games that the world takes notice of......however i would like to play amnesia on pc and the walking dead episodes

edit: sorry i kind of f*^&% that up and canceled the quote i was quoting to..which was from jigero

What like S.T.A.L.K.E.R., Wings of Prey? Minecraft? Guild Wars 2? TERA? The Secret World? Amnesia the Dark Descent? Tribes: Ascend? The Witcher 2? Starcraft 2? Diablo 3? Mods to like everything (Skyrim, Fallout 3, Surf mode in Counterstrike etc.) plus indie titles and a ridiculous back catalog that is legally accessible via gog.com? Torchlight 2? Space Pirates and Zombies? Gemini Rue?

Jigero:
If you don't know what type of parts to get there are plenty of guides out there.

I assembled a computer for the first time in December going from just looking at the step by step instructions that came with the mother board, and maybe 3 minutes of google searches when I was slightly confused and I had Zero problems with anything. Heck this computer runs smoother, has less problems then any prebuilt or any customer computer I had some one else make for me.

If you know how to connect A wire to B slot, shit ain't hard, if you can read simple instructions you can put to together a computer.

But go ahead and keep fear mongering your entitled to your crap opinion, it just makes you look silly though.

I do not want to learn all of that. I do not want to read an online guide in order to put together a console to play a freakin' game. I don't see why that is so hard to understand. I could easily get a $200 system, hook it up to my TV, and immediately play. Better yet, I know exactly what I am getting. I don't need a new computer - I have a laptop. I would like something simple, that can play games. I know the experience isn't as good as a PC. No freakin' duh.

I cannot understand how hard it is to get that. PC players constantly wonder where that "elitist" reputation comes from. It's outrageous. If this isn't good enough for you, then too bad. Get the hell over yourselves.

yogibbear:

xshadowscreamx:

Jigero:
[quote="xshadowscreamx" post="6.381364.15029729"]the fanboys are assembled......i do like being able to trade games, but they like bleed the money from us with there 10 doller online pass, but thats not with all developers (but it will grow though)...when was the last pc exclusive game..other then ''error 37''... hard reset?

jigero qoute PC's usually has more exclusives then consoles do. PC had almost 3 times the amount of exclusives then the 360 and about as much as the PS3 last year. qoute jigero

yes there is a lot of exclusive point and click mysteries games on the shelf..oh you mean through steam,not everyone can get there hands on digital distribution. im talking about BIG exclusives like MGS,THE LAST OF US,BEYOND TWO SOULS,HEAVY RAIN,HALO 4,SHADOW OF THE COLLOSES/ICO i could go on and on..these are the games that the world takes notice of......however i would like to play amnesia on pc and the walking dead episodes

edit: sorry i kind of f*^&% that up and canceled the quote i was quoting to..which was from jigero

What like S.T.A.L.K.E.R., Wings of Prey? Minecraft? Guild Wars 2? TERA? The Secret World? Amnesia the Dark Descent? Tribes: Ascend? The Witcher 2? Starcraft 2? Diablo 3? Mods to like everything (Skyrim, Fallout 3, Surf mode in Counterstrike etc.) plus indie titles and a ridiculous back catalog that is legally accessible via gog.com? Torchlight 2? Space Pirates and Zombies? Gemini Rue?

half those games are not exclusive to pc

Perfectly stated Jim, consoles are the shittiest consoles you can possibly own, and they are routinely dwarfed by even the most inexpensive PC's.

PC is where IT's at, and where IT has always been, and even the "next gen" (I.E. current "gen" PC) will not change this. Sure they might get a new Uncharted, Mario, or twenty new Halo's but they are all pretty weak compared to the lineup that PC gamers will get their hands on at much cheaper prices. I know where I'll be spending most of my time!

Edit: Honestly anybody who has the desire to assemble a computer damn well can if they can take a couple simple hours to read how the construction is done. It is almost childs play these days, the most difficult part they'll likely have is applying the thermal paste (which is rather simple), I'm absolutely certain my father could construct one after reading a diagram and maybe watching a short video like the one linked above. If there's a will, there's a way! Guys don't need to make a mountain out of a mole-hill.

not to mention controller support may be added through third party software like motionjoy or pinnacle if it isn't native.

The only reason I still own my consoles is the same reason I know I'll buy the next ones. Exclusive titles...

I was hoping someone would come out and say these things in a vid.
I have consoles and love playing them, the old ones. Everytime I turn on my PS3 I gotta update the system, then I gotta update the game and that takes 5-20 minutes despite having a 20mbs/20mbs. Steam everything is done before I knew it started.

"Oh but I like sitting back and playing games on the TV"
I do that with my PC with an 360 or PS2 controller, even a mouse and keyboard and I just push one button to switch it over.

And what happened to the used game market? Games used to be 10-20 bucks cheaper, now they're 5 dollars cheaper most of the time. Sale on PC they're 25%-80% off and the freaking DLC usually goes on sale too.

I dunno what happened this generation everything with consoles is just irritating, but my lil' PS2 and Genesis just keep on giving good ol' game fun.

DingoDoom:
Right, it is simple enough that people create guides and youtube videos about putting PC together because it is so easy right? I was disagreeing with your comparison legos and PC building.

Tell you what, go get some PC parts and randomly pick strangers from the streets and ask them to assemble a computer with just the manuals, no outside help, research, or looking at guides. More often then not, a new PC builder will have some trouble with assembling a computer.

I'm not fear mongering, I'm just saying that with a console, a person does not have to worry about building anything, which is the point of a console.

But go ahead and keep your shoving your entitled elitist opinion down anyone, it just makes you look ignorant.

People make YouTube videos of tutorials on how to play a game as well, they aren't ready needed either. They simply provide extra help for those that may need it.

To be honest I found putting my first PC together without instructions a hell of a lot easier than trying to work out how to put together my Lego Millennium Falcon.

Haven`t you people heard that pc-console gaming is soon to be dead anyway?
Portable gaming with smartphones and shit is the future. Many many important developers and really important market analysts are saying this, they work in the buisness so they must be right.

jpoon:
Perfectly stated Jim, consoles are the shittiest consoles you can possibly own, and they are routinely dwarfed by even the most inexpensive PC's.

PC is where IT's at, and where IT has always been, and even the "next gen" (I.E. current "gen" PC) will not change this. Sure they might get a new Uncharted, Mario, or twenty new Halo's but they are all pretty weak compared to the lineup that PC gamers will get their hands on at much cheaper prices. I know where I'll be spending most of my time!

Edit: Honestly anybody who has the desire to assemble a computer damn well can if they can take a couple simple hours to read how the construction is done. It is almost childs play these days, the most difficult part they'll likely have is applying the thermal paste (which is rather simple), I'm absolutely certain my father could construct one after reading a diagram and maybe watching a short video like the one linked above. If there's a will, there's a way! Guys don't need to make a mountain out of a mole-hill.

Or I could just, y'know, buy a system and play it rather than watch a diagram and a youtube vid. This seems that this always seems to fly over the head over most of you guys, I simply don't understand it.

If your gonna talk about the solid benefits of PC's sure. If your gonna mention what consoles are becoming now, no prob. It does have its flaws, as was mentioned in the vid.

However, to sound so arrogant as to assume that there is no reason why somebody would go console over PC is ridiculous. Do you people get pissy when somebody uses pancake mix over pancakes from scratch?

Is it not possible that the console has exactly what people are looking for, in an easy to install, cheap package? It does exactly what people are looking for it to do. Play games.

Well this thread is the gift that keeps on going. C'mon folks, lets keep the fail-pinion train moving! I bet we can make it to over 1000 ill-informed replies.

On topic i think many are losing sight of what Jim is talking about; the experience of playing (or at least trying to play) a game. The "Plug in and play" ability of the consoles is all but dead. Gone. Kaput. When it comes to user experience consoles are getting all the disadvantages of the PC with none of the open platform benefits. He's not saying PCs are cheaper, all he's saying is the experience is so similar in terms of technical bullshit that the advantages a PC provides no longer has the same gap in terms of user friendliness.

The PC hasn't really got any easier to deal with (and is still a bit of a headache) BUT the publishers and console makers have shit all over the console gamer so much as to make it almost intolerable to deal with.

Scrumpmonkey:
Well this thread is the gift that keeps on going. C'mon folks, lets keep the fail-pinion train moving! I bet we can make it to over 1000 ill-informed replies.

On topic i think many are losing sight of what Jim is talking about; the experience of playing (or at least trying to play) a game. The "Plug in and play" ability of the consoles is all but dead. Gone. Kaput. When it comes to user experience consoles are getting all the disadvantages of the PC with none of the open platform benefits. He's not saying PCs are cheaper, all he's saying is the experience is so similar in terms of technical bullshit that the advantages a PC provides no longer has the same gap in terms of user friendliness.

The PC hasn't really got any easier to deal with (and is still a bit of a headache) BUT the publishers and console makers have shit all over the console gamer so much as to make it almost intolerable to deal with.

Thanks for the rerail. However I'm going to bring up the wii. Yes less powerful, full of gimmicks, has no games etc. but it's the only console that has maintained the plug in and play mentality. I put in a disc click on the start button and then I'm playing. Considering there's news of the 720 being upgrade-able like the pc its only bringing more problems. Nintendo may not make the most powerful consoles but they're the only people making consoles.

him over there:


Thanks for the rerail. However I'm going to bring up the wii. Yes less powerful, full of gimmicks, has no games etc. but it's the only console that has maintained the plug in and play mentality. I put in a disc click on the start button and then I'm playing. Considering there's news of the 720 being upgrade-able like the pc its only bringing more problems. Nintendo may not make the most powerful consoles but they're the only people making consoles.

Well the Wii is an odd case, it managed to retain the advantages of a last generation console by basically just standing still. I hate to be the "The Wii was essentially a last gen console" guy but... oh to hell with it; The Wii was basically a Gamecube with a fancy waving stick, right down to the almost non-existant online integration. When they did try something it was painful and functioned not just like a PC but like a PC from 1996. (Friend-codes, Wii Speak etc etc) it was just embarrassing.

Thing is; there is no reason for 1/2 the bullshit on the HD consoles to exist. Online passes; Needless bullshit. All DLC scandals; Needless bullshit. 40 minute patches; Lazy, overreaching needless bullshit. The HD consoles need to learn to streamline and live within their graphical means. All the overly long installs and patches are down to using online content delivery as a crutch.

Many PC games need to patch because of unforeseen hardware combination conflicts. Consoles don't have this problem. Lock it down. make it run. Ship it. You don't need to spend 18 months making the bloom a bit more shiny if the game is going to need a 10GB install and run at 25FPS. Consoles are good because they are standardized but have the disadvantage of constraints. Learn to work within those restraints.

In conclusion; If console makers tried to make their online integration user friendly... it would be user friendly. They are trying to have their cake and eat it. The Wii just doesn't try to have a cake so it can't fail.

Scrumpmonkey:

him over there:


Thanks for the rerail. However I'm going to bring up the wii. Yes less powerful, full of gimmicks, has no games etc. but it's the only console that has maintained the plug in and play mentality. I put in a disc click on the start button and then I'm playing. Considering there's news of the 720 being upgrade-able like the pc its only bringing more problems. Nintendo may not make the most powerful consoles but they're the only people making consoles.

Well the Wii is an odd case, it managed to retain the advantages of a last generation console by basically just standing still. I hate to be the "The Wii was essentially a last gen console" guy but... oh to hell with it; The Wii was basically a Gamecube with a fancy waving stick, right down to the almost non-existant online integration. When they did try something it was painful and functioned not just like a PC but like a PC from 1996. (Friend-codes, Wii Speak etc etc) it was just embarrassing.

Thing is; there is no reason for 1/2 the bullshit on the HD consoles to exist. Online passes; Needless bullshit. All DLC scandals; Needless bullshit. 40 minute patches; Lazy, overreaching needless bullshit. The HD consoles need to learn to streamline and live within their graphical means. All the overly long installs and patches are down to using online content delivery as a crutch.

Many PC games need to patch because of unforeseen hardware combination conflicts. Consoles don't have this problem. Lock it down. make it run. Ship it. You don't need to spend 18 months making the bloom a bit more shiny if the game is going to need a 10GB install and run at 25FPS. Consoles are good because they are standardized but have the disadvantage of constraints. Learn to work within those restraints.

In conclusion; If console makers tried to make their online integration user friendly... it would be user friendly. They are trying to have their cake and eat it. The Wii just doesn't try to have a cake so it can't fail.

Everything save for the terrible online isn't really a problem for the wii, or any consoles really. All these problems are mostly because of publishers and developers not the consoles themselves. Consoles are a standardized platform making it easier to reach and manipulate. If outside forces stopped trying to fuck them over it wouldn't be a problem.

AS for the wii I see your point. It can't really fall prey to that because it wasn't very serious in the first place. However I hope that the plug in and play mentality sticks for the upcoming Wii U. In my 4 years of owning the wii I have hadv1 patch, 3 updates that went very quickly and intuitively and zero online passes or dlc. The wii failed because it was a last gen console but that brought the hidden benefit of the last gen consoles.

Thanks Jim, it's not like the pretentious PC crowd need something else to make them think that they are somehow better people due to their choice in gaming medium.

Also I think you're overlooking one big thing - value for money. I bought the Xbox 360 when it came out and when I buy an Xbox360 game I can guarantee it will still work on it despite it's age. I cannot say the same for PC. In fact my PC is only 2 years old an already there are games that just will not work on it at all.

What's more, the PC was still 4 times more expensive. This isn't that much of an issue for me since I the PC was handy for work as well, but there's no way I could justify buying a full-on gaming rig. It's just far too much money. If gaming was related to my job in some way I could consider it, but for fun in my spare time? No chance in hell. Sorry, but some of us have a life outside gaming and can't justify the price-tag associated with playing primarily on the PC.

DingoDoom:
[quote="Jigero" post="6.381364.15036124"]

But go ahead and keep your shoving your entitled elitist opinion down anyone, it just makes you look ignorant.

IT makes you look ignorant when you say that "Wahhh its tooooo hard to assemble a PC" without giving it more than 5 seconds of effort, looking at the manual, or scouring the internet for help"

Valdus:
Thanks Jim, it's not like the pretentious PC crowd

I hardly think you are helping matters when you call everyone who chooses a PC pretentious, I mean what have I ever done to you? I just like playing dwarf fortress, is that a crime?

Valdus:

Also I think you're overlooking one big thing - value for money. I bought the Xbox 360 when it came out

I can't agree with your point about value. I had an Xbox 360 on release, it died. Many of them did, after warranty so I was out of pocket for that.

My PC by comparison, cost a fraction more than my PS3 yet every single game comes out significantly cheaper on PC. (dwarf fortress is free too!)
It's about six years old now, and has only struggled with the Witcher 2. Also like you, I had to have one for work anyway.

Also, I have to say if you paid four times the launch price of the Xbox 360 for a PC 2 years ago and that PC is already unable to run modern games, you have every right to feel aggrieved. Id be mad if that happened to me.

I will add, I custom built mine, it seems like that is the only way to get good value in a PC, some people just don't want the hassle and I can't blame them for that.

Well I'm a console-man (primarily 360 but I enjoy PS3 exclusives) and all I have to say is:

Really? Took ya that long to figure it out?

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