The Big Picture: Batman Revisited, Part 3

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Batman Revisited, Part 3

This time MovieBob takes a good look at Batman Forever and its villains.

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So, Bob's gonna connect the Schumacher bashing to the fact that he is gay?

Chris O'Donnell's career has only just recovered thanks to NCIS:LA

Billy Dee Williams is just too damn pretty to be Two-Face.

jaymiechan:
So, Bob's gonna connect the Schumacher bashing to the fact that he is gay?

No, He's going to connect the Schumacher bashing bashing to the fact that Batman and Robin was gay.

Batnipples? It's gotta be the batnipples...

Ok guys brace yourselves, the Batnipples are coming.

thethingthatlurks:
Batnipples? It's gotta be the batnipples...

What do you think Joel Schumacher is infamous for in the Batman fandom?

Anyway, do you think Bob will bash that movie next week?

I always liked Forever the most out of the pre-Begins films. I never felt like Burton loved Batman and, Batman and Robin was just crap. That said, forever feels to me like an amalgamation of the three main types of Batman pervading popular culture at the time: Dark, gritty, 90's comics Batman, the Adam West Batman, which was still locked into the collective minds of the public, and the animated series. For better or for worse it was something that really set itself apart from the Burton films, but regrettably went too far for the sequel.

Way to spend 5 minutes talking about something yet saying nothing.

Na na na na na na na na Bat-Nips!
...
I cringe in advance. Meanwhile, think there'll be a lead-in with the Nolan Batman movies, or is this line of episodes focusing on just the pre-reboot movies?

Time to kick some ice.

I've always been kind of iffy about the movie. I mean, Nicole Kidman as a blond was the first woman I think I ever stood up and took notice of in my transition from child to teenager, and Jim Carrey was, in my opinion, a great choice for the Riddler. It had it's high and low points, and I still prefer it to Batman Returns, but it's certainly better then Batman & Robin was (again, in my opinion).

The only thing that bothered me about batnipples is trying to play the scene where batman decides to add nipples to his costume out in my head.

Batman - "Criminals are as superstitious and cowardly lot. I must use a fearsome image to exploit that fact. I must become a bat. And i must add nipples, because that will really intimidate the thugs."

See, that just doesn't work in my head. Other than that, couldn't care less about bat nipples.

Batman Forever was... interesting. I always had a certain appreciation for "campy" Batman and i did like Joel Schumachers Vegas-esque artstyle. But it should have had some more depth. Tommy Lee Jones' Two Face doesn't work at all and Jim Carreys Riddler wasn't much better. Those two characters would have required subtlety but Schumacher made them into a punchline. Shame about that.

DVS BSTrD:
Billy Dee Williams is just too damn pretty to be Two-Face.

There is a photoshop somewhere (Cracked maybe?) of Mr. Williams with the style of scarring from forever and it looked *damn* fine. And concerning the pretty thing, Harvey Dent is supposed to be a paragon of good in contrast of the husk of Gotham, so in every version he was pretty, which makes the juxtaposition of his scarring even more jarring.

But yes,
He is very pretty.

I haven't seen Batman Forever since I saw it in theaters all those years ago. Wow - I can't believe I'd forgotten just how horrid Tommy Lee-Jones' Two-Face makeup was.

I prefer the comical and light stuff much more than the dark stuff. I said before and I will say again Batman and Robin is my favorite because it's fun and funny. I really don't like action movies. Also, I didn't know about the 'bat nips' until someone pointed it out and I still don't care.

Chris O'Donnell's career has only just recovered thanks to NCIS:LA

Well thats depressing.

So, Bob's gonna connect the Schumacher bashing to the fact that he is gay?

Oh I hope not, whether or not its true, its pretty clear everyone's beyond it. Its seems like the Halo 'Nazi' thing all over again. Grasping for something that isn't there, blinded by some form of white knight crusader-dom.

I don't understand the problem with the nipples. If you are going to carve the armour in the shape of abs and pecs, why not nipples?

Is bad casting, boring dialogue and an ugly, nineties, purple and green aesthetic not enough grounds to hate Batman Forever? I mean, it wasn't irredeemable but it's a hard movie to enjoy.

My problem with the old Batman set exuding the first is that there were just too many villains to actually put in a valid story behind them. Two-Face could have been good but should have been a solo act. The first one despite it's faults got the villain mix correct. One Primary villain, and minions and mobsters to fill in any need for a beat-em-up action sequence. Three primary batman villains like Batman Returns and Batman & Robin is just too many to tell a good story in a hour and a half or two hours. Too many characters just makes it so that the other failings show much brighter.

Ya know, Batman Forever was probably my favorite of the 90s Batman movies. I wasn't much for Val Kilmer as Batman/Bruce Wayne but I really liked Jim Carrey as The Riddler and loved Tommy Lee Jones as Two Face. They actually had really good chemistry together. That being said, I damn near walked out of Batman and Robin. That was an absolutely unforgivable movie.

I was kind of annoyed how he tapered off there at the end of his video only to leave us hanging.
When it came I was just like: DAMN YOU MOVIEBOB!

Also, I always found Two-Face in this iteration to be a little too over the top ridiculous. The Riddler I could understand, but not him. I also disliked the art style, looking back on it though it's pretty classic 90s though.

I really disliked Forever at the time, despite it having a cast that should make me feel the opposite.
I'm also one of those who really disliked the style change. I thought the movie looked OK but it was just too garish. I feel the style actually made the film more hollow. It made it feel sort of cheap and "Hollywood", if you know what I mean?

Ooh, I can't wait for next week. It's going to be fun.

It's Robin. Robin sucks. There will never be a good live-action Robin because the character is inherently stupid, and his costume is stupid, and he will never come across as in a movie as anything other than stupid. And camp.

Or to put it another way, Robin is the Wesley Crusher of the Batman mythos - an annoying, hyper competent teenager who is invariably despised by the teenagers in the audience who are supposed to identify with him, and bores the adults.

That aside, I've never been able to sit through Forever. It's just too bright and garish and cluttered.

Ya but forever was not as bad as B&R, I still like Batman 1 and 2 the most then Beginnings then the dark knight then forever.

I've always had a soft spot for Batman Forever.

Then again I've never been one for the original source material. Being British and born in the 80s, I was raised on The Beano and The Dandy and then on to Commando. Proper comics (I jest, but you get my point!). None of this super-hero malarky.

To me, Batman is the goofy American 60's TV show shown on repeat on 90s Channel 4 during lunch in the summer holidays. I enjoyed that show immensely and Batman Forever is the closest in feel of the recent films to what I know and love of Batman. Supremely stupid at times? Yep. Ropey dialogue and acting? Yeh, that too. But somehow it just kind of all meshed together into this fun, camp, popcorn blockbuster in the same way the old TV show did. (Fun! Remember that?)

And to add to my unpopularity stakes, I'll state that the sound track isn't half bad either with U2's "Hold me, Thrill me, Kiss me, Kill me" being best thing they have ever produced.

Jetsetneo:

So, Bob's gonna connect the Schumacher bashing to the fact that he is gay?

Oh I hope not, whether or not its true, its pretty clear everyone's beyond it. Its seems like the Halo 'Nazi' thing all over again. Grasping for something that isn't there, blinded by some form of white knight crusader-dom.

Of course he's going to do that. Can't wait to have another round of "Let's all get unreasonably pissed off and defensive about Moviebob's opinions".

Gallium:
I've always had a soft spot for Batman Forever.

Then again I've never been one for the original source material. Being British and born in the 80s, I was raised on The Beano and The Dandy and then on to Commando. Proper comics (I jest, but you get my point!). None of this super-hero malarky.

To me, Batman is the goofy American 60's TV show shown on repeat on 90s Channel 4 during lunch in the summer holidays. I enjoyed that show immensely and Batman Forever is the closest in feel of the recent films to what I know and love of Batman. Supremely stupid at times? Yep. Ropey dialogue and acting? Yeh, that too. But somehow it just kind of all meshed together into this fun, camp, popcorn blockbuster in the same way the old TV show did. (Fun! Remember that?)

And to add to my unpopularity stakes, I'll state that the sound track isn't half bad either with U2's "Hold me, Thrill me, Kiss me, Kill me" being best thing they have ever produced.

^ This, exactly this.

But then again, I do have a soft spot for early - mid nineties action film soundtracks, they always... ALWAYS ended on a cheesy rock song and I love it.

Sixcess:
Or to put it another way, Robin is the Wesley Crusher of the Batman mythos - an annoying, hyper competent teenager who is invariably despised by the teenagers in the audience who are supposed to identify with him, and bores the adults.

Which Robin? Dick Grayson? Jason Todd? Tim Drake? Damian Wayne? Carrie Kelly?

I found both the Dick Grayson as Batman and Damian Wayne as Robin in Grant Morrison's run in last year's Batman and Robin comics to be interesting characters. Grayson was filling Batman's big shoes and wasn't too comfortable about it, while DW (raised as an assassin by Talia Al Ghul) plays a Robin with serious issues.

I also found the version of Robin in Teen Titans interesting, back when I watched the show.

I have to remember to get the popcorn ready for next week's episode!

I had a professor that would go on a hate-filled rant if you ever mentioned Batman Forever. Especially on the bat-nips.

I remember that as a kid, I literally fell asleep while watching Batman Forever. Seriously, I could stand crappy movies any day, the whole day (ahh, the wonderful days of Canal 5's trilogy weekends :D), but after we rented this movie in glorious VHS (!), I simply fell asleep while watching it. And also, feeling immensely dissapointed by Jim Carrey, I seriously liked Ace Ventura 2 back in the day.

Today, I watch it and I consider it equally as bad as Batman & Robin, but with less puns.

Damn it Bob, you're leaving me out in the cold until next week >.<'

It's rather funny how with both Burton and Schumacher, after making their own competent but slightly flawed films rather than trying to fix those problems the studio just gives both directors full control and both men wind up making completely insane versions turned up to 11 in their own particular style. Talk about history repeating itself.

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