The Big Picture: Worlds Within Worlds

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GamemasterAnthony:
Only problem is, those are not the SAME Barclay, Banacek, and Starbuck as their Star Trek, Banacek, and Battlestar Galactica counterparts. Same names...but technically different characters.

There is no evidence of this. They may have gone into film at the end of their illustrious space/detective careers. They certainly bear the same face, based on the origin of their names.

Anyway, if they can include oblique references to Yoyodyne, I don't think I've made the farthest stretch of anyone to get to this point.

You think Equestria or the Land of Ooo are all part of Tommy Westphall's imagination?

Or you know Tommy just watched a bit of TV and added the characters into his imaginary world.

As for the world within worlds thing,it bugs me especially in the case of X men. Mutants live in a world with Captain America and the Fantastic Four well know and celebrated heroes, hell most non mutant heroes are loved in the Marvel-verse, so how is it that only mutants get this special hate treatment and why do non of them just lie about there origin and say they fell in toxic waste.

There was a flash brighter than the sun as my mind burned out of existence when you said Doctor Who was imagined by an autistic kid in the 80's.

I think you should have explained the connection to comic books alittle more. How they want to be in the same ironed out timeline.

videocrazy:
Here's a creepy thought: The Mythbusters did a cameo on an episode of CSI. Adam Savage and Jamie Hyneman are real people. Ergo, we are also imaginary.

You could go further, the most solid links are actual character links of people appearing in shows. References could be waved off as coincidences or the fantasy drawing on reality. But actual Characters even in cameos? In strict continuity terms that's kind of a smoking gun. So the fact that Mythbusters is factual and features things that interweb with reality so much it would be hard to untangle it from almost anything.

If people whined about a connected universe in TV as much as they did in comics we would be wining about how reality is not always portrayed as a figment of an autistic child's brain.

MB202:
You think Equestria or the Land of Ooo are all part of Tommy Westphall's imagination?

My little pony, Autistic minds are magic? This makes me question everything. Am I a figment of Tommy Westphall's imagination? Im so confused...

**Looks around in panic, has existential crisis***

Here's some more for ya. The time lords in Doctor Who come from the planet Gallifrey. Gallifrey is shown to exist in the Power Rangers universe. The Power Rangers crossed over with the Ninja Turtles. TMNT crossed over with Archie. Archie met the Punisher thus bringing in the Marvelverse. In that same issue "Archie meets the Punisher" Sabrina the teenage Witch and Josie and the Pussycats also make an appearance.

Well if Fringe, Star Trek, DC and Marvel are all part of this in some way, that mean that kid was able to create not just one, but many universes! Did he also imagined himself? Did he also imagine us talking on The Escapist about him? Is Moviebob real? Are we real? Oh, please... Is The Escapist forum real?

gamejunkiey69:
Of Course all TV shows arn't Real! They're TV Shows!

They are not diegetically real.

Scrumpmonkey:
If people whined about a connected universe in TV as much as they did in comics we would be wining about how reality is not always portrayed as a figment of an autistic child's brain.

No, we wouldn't, because connections and cameos aren't the same thing as a shared universe, and most people recognize this even if they can't articulate it. Go check out Memory Alpha to see how much people complain about continuity in a shared TV universe.

My brain done brokeded.

MB202:
You think Equestria or the Land of Ooo are all part of Tommy Westphall's imagination?

Equestria maybe. Since Marvel is part of that mess, there's a connection to Capcom, and Capcom is connected to the Hasbro properties since during the G1 era of G.I.Joe they recruited the Street Fighters. I'm not joking!

Actually...since we're trying to be as silly as possible with this, let me add some fuel to the fire using Dr. Who...

In the game Minecraft, according to one gameplay video I saw, the Endermen have a tendancy to stand still while you look at them, but will move and attack when you look away. Sounds similar to a certain group of "angels" right?

In Dragon Quest 9, one of the Grotto dungeons may have the boss known as the Trauminator. According to the strat guide, the data on it says it has been around since the dawn of time. But note the way it speaks...

"Bzzzt... Dzzz... Must-trauminate...
All-extraneous-life-forms-must-be-
exterminated... Processing...

Mortals...extraneous...
Celestria...extraneous...
Celestrians...extraneous...

Bzzzt... Extraneous-life-form-detected...
Trauminator... TRAU-MIN-ATE!"

If that isn't a Dalek, I don't know what is.

Finally, in Pokémon Black and Pokémon White, we have the guy running the Poké Transfer Lab. Several Pokémon he helps transfer over from previous games usually come tagged with the line "Apparently arrived...after a long travel through time". But...that's not all. Before the transfer process begins, he excitedly says "Allons-y!" That...really gave me a Timelordish vibe, if you get my meaning.

I prefer the explanation of "Hollywood can't create original content to save it's life" answer to this.

silverdragon9:

Monty McDougal:
My only 2 questions (other than WHY?) is how did you jump from Alien/Predator to Firefly? And any of the direct cross overs in the Original 'St. Elsewhere' would be explainable if the kid had simply seen the shows on tv and put them in there, right?

several things (the aa turret at the begining comes to mind) in firefly are manufactured by Wayland yutani.

Wow that is cool I didn't catch that.

So not going to lie, but I thought he would talk about the colorado shooting. Or at least something to do with fans, craziness, and/or tragedy at movie/book/videogame/etc premiers.

EDIT: oh and bob forgot about the simpsons and all of Seth Macfarlene's shows (except maybe american dad) connection.

simpsons connects southpark which links to, get this, america's funniest home videos. So apparently we the people of (so-called) reality fall into the westfall universe.

Well, come on, that's stretching it too much.

It's an intriguing thought but nothing more. I don't know why everyone's flipping out about it.

Daystar Clarion:
My mind!

It's been blown!

Some people have too much time on their hands :D

Ready for one last mind-blow my friend? Seeing as how some of these series do sometimes contain real life events or places, that means...Real life is possibly a product of this kids imagination.

Which means, we're all fictitious characters. I'm...not as surprised by this as i should be, although i am disappointed i didn't turn out as a supernatural entity.
And which likely means that the whole 2012 thing isn't the end of the world but rather one giant continuity reboot of EVERYTHING. I just hope i get superpowers and can become a proper badass this time around.

mrblakemiller:
Well, now I'm just interested in more of McDuffie's point about how comics continuity is too rigid and what should be done about it. Okay, what Aquaman does might make meaningless an old Sandman issue, but why is that a bad thing, and what did he propose instead?

Unsure and unwilling to check the rest of the thread, I remember his point was that continuity should only be brought up when it's meaningful to the story. Otherwise it should be invisible to the reader.

Nothing is true, everything is permitted

Brian Weatherson professor of philosophy at Cornell University in "Six Objections to the Westphall Hypothesis" comes up with good counters to the whole Tommy Westphall Universe Hypothesis.

The "De Re Dreams" and "De Re Fictions" counters point out that people in the real world in their real life roles make appearances in some of these shows (Michael Bloomberg as Mayor of New York in "Law and Order is the example given)

DC's old Pre-Crisis multiverse had this in spades. The adventures of Earth-2 heroes (1938-c1948) were "seen" by varies writers and published on Earth-1. The same was true of Earth-prime (a close copy of our Earth) with regards to the heroes of Earth-1, 2, S, X, etc.

The DC multiverse came about *because* of continuity and aside for the JSA-JLA crossover most of the Earths didn't interact. Some earths (Earth-B and Earth-E/154) were editorial creations to explain discontinuities

mrblakemiller:
Well, now I'm just interested in more of McDuffie's point about how comics continuity is too rigid and what should be done about it. Okay, what Aquaman does might make meaningless an old Sandman issue, but why is that a bad thing, and what did he propose instead?

The "rigidity" of comic continuity only became an issue in DC comics after Crisis on Infinite Earths happened. The multiverse had been release valve for stories that couldn't fit into continuity with "Earth-B" and "Earth-E" being favorite dumping grounds for fans for all the weird "what were the writers/editors on with that?" stories.

Trying to shove everything DC had onto *one* earth with *one* timeline was a formula for disaster. Even more so as not all the books rebooted at the same time.

In fact DC effectively shoved the fact the Legion of Superheroes hadn't rebooted in everyone's face with the Comic Boy series (December, 1986) not even a year after the final issue of Crisis (March 1986). Then DC tried to explain the mess they made with the Pocket Universe saga (August, 1987) killing the whole one earth one timeline idea.

DC kept trying to revive the idea but Dan DiDio has stated "after further review, there have been no Crisis events in the New DCU" so we are back to the old Pre-Crisis status quo of shove any story that doesn't make a lick of sense continuitywise on to another earth. This also means no Crisis, no Zero Hour, no Infinite Crisis, etc with the DCMU alive and well.

I think it just calls for some deep breaths and some rational thought from the comic fans.

If a Superman spin off shows him with a more modern haircut, it doesn't destroy everything that came before.

If however, halfway thru a story arc, he's injected with liquid kryptonite, and it does nothing, then I'd have a problem, as it's screwing with his only weakness, (apart from him giving a damn about us puny humans, of course, that really does keep getting in the way for him :D )

what have you done me you destroyed my mind

The problem with the Tommy Westphall theory is that it falls apart when one takes into consideration that Tommy incorporated his father, a real person, into his personal universe. Ergo, it is possible and indeed extremely likely that Tommy thus incorporated other aspects he took in from various sensory input and also incorporated it into the St. Elsewhere narrative in his head. It's an interesting thought, but it falls apart when you consider everything in Tommy's head may have had an outside stimulus of some sort(the hospital itself being inspired by the snowglobe image for example) thus everything does exist...just not in the way that perhaps we perceived in within the context of that show. That's just my 2. (And if this was repetitive of someone else's response, I do apologize.)

Of course all of this could easily be moot since there's no definitive proof saying whatever shows crossed over with this show didn't exist outside Tommy's head. After all, not even autistic children live in a cultural vacuum. It could just be that, in his imaginings, Tommy included some TV characters he knew about. It could be that all these shows exist in his head, or it could be that this particular show was just his fanfiction.

And we all know how easily fanfic writers gravitate towards crossovers that don't make sense in context. But far be it from me to spoil anyone's fun.

Excuse me seizure, I think I need to go have a moviebob.

Fun thought, but while I can *almost* believe the connections via celebrities, I certainly couldn't believe the connections via corporations. I'm skeptical that there has never been two corporations with the same name, and that takes a rather large chunk out of the whole "Tommy Westphall, god of television" web theory. Have no two films ever named a macguffin the same thing? It does not mean that those two are the same object.

You forgot to mention Yoyodyne was also in Buckaroo Bansai.

seven ways of kevin bacon got beat.

This episode was amazing.

It's a good point but I think that comic continuity is different. That being said I love all the different story lines that can occur in one universe.

Also, that guy's head you always use exploding genuinely made me laugh. No idea why, maybe it's because I watched the serious Big Picture before this one!

But wait, there was an episode of buffy where it turns out that she's basically imagined everything that happened throughout the entire show (maybe), so would that mean that he imagined her imagining everything or that she imagined him imagining her imagining him imagining her... et cetera. MIND BLOWN.

Don't know if anybody has mentioned this yet, but in Fallout 3, the combination to the safe in Billy Creel's house is "15 16 23 42". This is a reference to the Lost TV show. The number 42 in the TV series was homage to A Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, as explained in a Lostpedia interview with David Fury.

I don't know if this means the fictional Fallout timeline is a product of Tommy Westphall's imagination. If it is, sad day. Sad day for Fallout fans everywhere, and therefore the world.

Oh, and Hitchhiker's guide to the Galaxy.

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