The Big Picture: On The Subject Of Violence

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On The Subject Of Violence

Possible does not mean likely.

Watch Video

I feel like applauding. Slowly.

We can't move forward as a species unless we take risks.

Pretty much what I've been saying all along. You can have some asshole start picking off hunters in the woods claiming he's avenging Bambi's mom, but that doesn't mean Bambi should be banned.

Psychopaths will look for anything to inspire them, and they'll find inspiration no matter what anyone else does. Banning certain forms of media means they'll just look elsewhere until we've effectively banned everything.

Also, the captcha says "Mumbo Jumbo" and I have my N64 in the attic, so I'm gonna go replay Banjo-Kazooie now and not think about crazy people for a while.

See this is smart.

People ALWAYS blame something other then other people for what happens.
Its never because someone is a sick minded monster, or that they had bad upbringings, or that society did nothing to stop them.

Its always the easy targets: D and D, Manson, Rock and Roll, Video Games, Movies.
Its far easier to blame something else, rather then just saying some people are monsters.

That piece of shit wasn't inspired by the Joker at all, he just wants attention.

Does any one know what could have prevented the Denver incident? GUN CONTROL!!

PS:oh, the forums suddenly look a lot more "slick". That's nice

One of the very few times I'm in complete and utter agreement with you.

I dont always agree with you Bob, but this is one of those times I am fully behind you. I just wish more people thought like this, instead of go off half-cocked (sorry...)

I just realised, I always say this when I agree with Bob...

ivc392:
Does any one know what could have prevented the Denver incident? GUN CONTROL!!

PS:oh, the forums suddenly look a lot more "slick". That's nice

Nowway has gun control, that did not prevented their tragedy.

ivc392:
Does any one know what could have prevented the Denver incident? GUN CONTROL!!

PS:oh, the forums suddenly look a lot more "slick". That's nice

He would have found a way to get guns anyhow. I mean he rigged his apartment to blow. He seems like he knew how to get things.

Great piece, Bob.

And of course there's one more obvious argument: if there are two books that can claim to have inspired more nutcases to commit atrocities than any others, they are the Bible and the Quran. If we're going to go about banning things because they 'might' give homicidal lunatics bad ideas, we'd be pretty much duty bound to start there.

Bravo, Bob. Well spoken and to the point.

I wonder if we could show this Big Picture to everyone who wants to censor the arts? It might (hopefully) get people to stop rushing into decisions on censorship based off an emotional backlash.

Flatfrog:
Great piece, Bob.

And of course there's one more obvious argument: if there are two books that can claim to have inspired more nutcases to commit atrocities than any others, they are the Bible and the Quran. If we're going to go about banning things because they 'might' give homicidal lunatics bad ideas, we'd be pretty much duty bound to start there.

I had to edit this post after reading this. I think it might actually be interesting to bring up this point whenver we see some religious group acting like idiots...like the WBC or One Million Moms for example. (Okay, granted OMM isn't a religious group, but the way they've been acting, you almost have to wonder...)

I sympathize with Bob, there are times I wish someone, specifically someone who's better at articulating their thoughts then I am, would address and issue before I can, or at the very least, I wish my line of thinking was better represented at times...

In this case, yeah, there ARE links, and I wish people would be opened-minded to see that, while there IS a link, the link isn't so much the movie/video games fault as it is the individual person's fault for being, for lack of better words, insane.

Nice use of CD-i Link, BTW.

ivc392:
Does any one know what could have prevented the Denver incident? GUN CONTROL!!

Don't bring that conversation into this thread, it has nothing to do with the topic being discussed.

OT: This felt like a long-winded way of saying "Don't make rash decisions", and considering I don't have the power to make any rash decisions anyway, I suppose I agree. It's impossible to predict the actions of a loony. If they couldn't get "inspiration" from one thing they might have done nothing, or they might have just gathered "inspiration" from something else. There's no way of knowing.

great job! definitely needed to be said. also agree with statements that if a psycho is going to rampage they're going to find an outlet no matter how far a stretch it may be

The thing that gets to me about censorship arguments is apparent ignorance of the fact that art imitates life. If the news media eagerly goes out of their way to cover every violent crime and war even if they take place thousands of kilometres from their audience, if politicians talk about getting tough on crime and rattle sabres at anyone who looks at them funny, and if zealots are inspired by their clergy and holy books to shoot doctors and blow up buildings, how is censoring entertainment media going to change anything?

Yes, yes, this!

If you go on a murder spree, you are fucking deranged from the beginning. You might get the idea to shoot someone in the face by watching Tom and Jerry, which I say is far more dangerous to watch for kids. In a cartoon, no one dies of getting shot in the face, they do however in movies. Anything can become the catalyst for a deranged man.

And no, just because you were raised badly, maybe abused, that does not give you any mercy at all. Responsibility for YOUR actions.

Flatfrog:
Great piece, Bob.

And of course there's one more obvious argument: if there are two books that can claim to have inspired more nutcases to commit atrocities than any others, they are the Bible and the Quran. If we're going to go about banning things because they 'might' give homicidal lunatics bad ideas, we'd be pretty much duty bound to start there.

As a Christian, I'll fully admit that this is true.

I really liked this video, Bob. It gave me further points to think about, as my previous stance had been about half of yours.

Welp, I'm sorry you thought you had to say it because no-one got to the punch before you, but I'm glad you did because you've just done exactly that for me. I would call you a mind-reader, but there's no way my train of thought could have been deciphered so coherently. Good job.

Very good Bob, once again agree with everything you said. I may not share your taste in movies, but I do agree with this. The bottom line is that most of these killers like the one in Colorado, they no doubt have a whole plethora of deep seeded psychological issues and whatever it is that they say "inspired" them was probably only the straw that broke the camel's back so to speak.

I can completely agree with what you're saying: people need to stop trying to find a scapegoat for everything terrible that happens; simple as that. Yes, almost everything in the world--if not everything--can be linked through some twisted web of causality, much like Bob pointed out. But at the same time, we are talking about the actions of people. And not just your average Joe, but people who clearly have some sort of mental illness, and in that case we can't just use the same web of causality that applies to us and assume "X caused Y to happen." Their minds do not work like ours, nor do they make the same connections as our brains do, and as such what we view as causal is not the same as to the person with the illness. So no matter what we do, or how much we ban or censor things, someone somewhere will find something else to 'inspire' themselves to do a sick and twisted act.

It sucks, but what can we really do? We can't predict everything that will happen, nor can we stop everything that happens, either. And while I don't have the slightest clue how to fix any of this--if there even is one--I know for damn sure that censoring or banning things just because some psychopath claims that he was 'inspired' by it is not that answer. It's just a bunch of people scrambling to find some answer to a problem so they can feel better about the world and justify the issue, when in reality there probably isn't an answer, and shit just happens.

bdcjacko:

ivc392:
Does any one know what could have prevented the Denver incident? GUN CONTROL!!

PS:oh, the forums suddenly look a lot more "slick". That's nice

He would have found a way to get guns anyhow. I mean he rigged his apartment to blow. He seems like he knew how to get things.

The Netherlands have some very tight gun laws as well, and they also had a home-grown mass murder shootout last year.
I'm not saying that gun control won't cut down on the total amount of violence happening - in fact I'd say it will - but it won't provide a golden bullet to prevent madmen going off on a rampage.

That said; we are long overdue for a reasoned debate on depiction of violence in entertainment. Sociologic research is slowly nearing a consensus on what is actually happening, but both sides of the accompanying debate are mainly occupied with shouting their opinion as loudly as possible, whilst hoping the other will just go away.

Well said Bobby boy, glad someone said it.

On the (slightly sketchy) plus side, Heath Ledgers "Joker" has already been commited to film, so thank Haruhi we at least have that now.

ivc392:
Does any one know what could have prevented the Denver incident? GUN CONTROL!!

You do know that the guy had enough explosive to level a building, and Gun Control would have done nothing about that. If anything the fact that the guy went for a gun he didn't actually know how to use and "modded" it up thus causing it to jam probably saved lives. If he had gone for say a Molotov Cocktail instead things would have ended very differently.

I'm completely with you on this one, Bob. We don't really get anywhere by banning things, other than making people want to perform illegal acts to get the banned things. There will always be people who randomly kill other people, just as long as there are mental disorders in existence. It's always been my opinion that we should spend slightly more time on detecting and fixing those than we already spend on trying to ban things we think are offensive, but what do I know? I don't have millions of dollars to back up my opinions anyway...

Hat is off. You said it man.

MovieBob:
On The Subject Of Violence

Possible does not mean likely.

Watch Video

As per usual Bob, you talk a hell of a lot of sense and see right to the heart of the matter.
I applaud you sir.

If I recall, the prosecutors in Anders Breivik's case also tried to link his insanity to his playing WOW for 7 hours a day.

Humans are a species that demand reason and purpose, even when there is not one to be found. Sure, there may actually be a reason for something happening or that it happened, but more often than not it's something beyond the control of us feeble human beings. Heck if you want me to find a causality link, maybe James Holmes was trying to be Ronald McDonald and got his clowns mixed up. Certainly explains the red hair. See? I can find links too.

DOUBLE POST - Please Delete.

We may not see eye to eye on your movie reviews but you made the best Big Picture yet, excellent work sir.

Must....kill...John Lennon.

KILL JOHN LENNON!

Props, Bob.

Seriously, thank you for this. In this particular case, I've seen no evidence that this kid didn't just want attention. He's acting like a cartoon bad guy, not an actual madman. Though violent media increases our violent thoughts, it does not make us want to commit violence. The violent imagery is merely present in our mind.

And some people either can't see the difference between reality and fiction, and some DO see it, and just don't care.

I don't think that anything other than a stronger mental health system would have been able to stop the Aurora shooter(Who I will now mockingly call him Sieshow Bob).

Sideshow Bob was able to get every single accessory he needed online, along with his ammo the same way. He was able to get his guns legally, because he was able to hide his mental failures when he bought them locally. This wasn't some rash decision he made. He had been planning this for months. If our mental health system was better, there would have been less chance he would have gone through with his actions.

Kargathia:

bdcjacko:

ivc392:
Does any one know what could have prevented the Denver incident? GUN CONTROL!!

PS:oh, the forums suddenly look a lot more "slick". That's nice

He would have found a way to get guns anyhow. I mean he rigged his apartment to blow. He seems like he knew how to get things.

The Netherlands have some very tight gun laws as well, and they also had a home-grown mass murder shootout last year.
I'm not saying that gun control won't cut down on the total amount of violence happening - in fact I'd say it will - but it won't provide a golden bullet to prevent madmen going off on a rampage.

That said; we are long overdue for a reasoned debate on depiction of violence in entertainment. Sociologic research is slowly nearing a consensus on what is actually happening, but both sides of the accompanying debate are mainly occupied with shouting their opinion as loudly as possible, whilst hoping the other will just go away.

Exactly, in a case like this, gun control means nothing. But big picture (no pun intended) gun control would decrease the amount of gun violence. In the case of some crazy guy that is dedicated to shooting up a movie, he is going to find the guns.

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