No Right Answer: Best U.S. President Ever

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ravenshrike:
FDR is automatically FTL because of Japanese interment camps and court packing threats. Truman was a little bitch who instead of backing the Vietnamese backed the French(First rule of modern warfare, NEVER BACK THE FRENCH) which led pretty directly to the Vietnam war. Eisenhower agreed with FDR to work with the Russians instead of letting Patton steamroll them out of Europe which led to the cold war. JFK was utterly bankrupt as a human being and cheated on his wife every chance he got and was killed before anything but the Cuban Missle Crisis could occur. Don't even get me started on LBJ.

In any case, the answer is obviously Washington, original American Badass.

Hey LBJ had a pretty aggressive civil rights reformation. He knew he couldn't win an election so he might as well piss off a bunch of southern democrats. In retrospect if you're not a minority you probably don't care about all that...

Wow, this was a difficult one to take sides on. And I don't mean politically (let's leave that out of this comment thread), I mean interms of shear badassery. TR looked to have that one locked up to me. His accomplishments made Lincoln's wrestling look mundane in comparison.

"that's not canon in American history by the way"

I love that phrase, even though it makes me feel like American history is being treated like comic books or the Star Wars expanded universe. Yes, I'm aware of what canon means and other usages of the word.

As pointed out above, Teddy Roosevelt actually fought in a war. Like, on the ground, pulling the trigger, shooting people IN THA' FACE.

Also as pointed out by someone else above, this kind of shows how little we Americans know about our history. I'd really like to make the argument that Eisenhower was the best because there's like a metric fu*kton of good he did behind the scenes that the public never saw and people don't realize, but I'm not knowledgeable enough on the subject to be able to make a good argument.

aguywhoknowsaguy:
Just finished watching if I don't see the Photoshopped twenty five dollar bill of Teddy and Abe in a wrestling ring by next week, I'll lose all faith in the internet.

If not that, at least two separate bills, one with Roosevelt hunting down death and the other of Lincoln choke-slamming Jefferson Davis. You know what, no, I want all three of these to be on actual currency now.

OT: With the amount of pretty badass presidents we've had, narrowing it down to just two (and not mentioning how Teddy just loved to bust trusts) feels a bit lacking. Maybe a four-way tag team debate of Lincoln v. FDR v. TR v. Washington?

Someone probably beat me to it, but I know one thing Lincoln did that Roosevelt didn't, he faced off against Chuck Norris and held his own.

gphjr14:

ravenshrike:
FDR is automatically FTL because of Japanese interment camps and court packing threats. Truman was a little bitch who instead of backing the Vietnamese backed the French(First rule of modern warfare, NEVER BACK THE FRENCH) which led pretty directly to the Vietnam war. Eisenhower agreed with FDR to work with the Russians instead of letting Patton steamroll them out of Europe which led to the cold war. JFK was utterly bankrupt as a human being and cheated on his wife every chance he got and was killed before anything but the Cuban Missle Crisis could occur. Don't even get me started on LBJ.

In any case, the answer is obviously Washington, original American Badass.

Hey LBJ had a pretty aggressive civil rights reformation. He knew he couldn't win an election so he might as well piss off a bunch of southern democrats. In retrospect if you're not a minority you probably don't care about all that...

He also FUBARed SocSec long term, started the drug war which Nixon cheerfully expanded upon, implemented his Great Society which pretty much directly led to the rise in unwed mothers among other social ills, started the feds meddling in education helping lead to the rot found in today's public education system, and was an all around asshole.

Lincoln for me, I can never forget the speech he made after the Civil War. He honored everyone, even his enemies thus was honoring the boys that died on the battlefield. Abe really was a guy meant for presidency. Also he dealt with a ton of personal problems but still cared to much for our country to hold him back.

Obama on the other hand... spent over hundreds and thousands of our taxpayer money so him and his family can go on vacation not long after being the president. See why do we get people who don't really seem to care about our country now a days. It's like politicians and those higher ups in government just see us as sheep, seriously. Abe would of seen us as people...

BehattedWanderer:
James. K. Polk.

Quoted for truth, no arguments need apply, this is the universal correct answer.

Needs more Millard Filmore and James Buchanan.

Teddy Roosevelt was shot during a speech, and didn't bother to go to the hospital 'til after finishing his speech.

When you can eat bullets like bee stings, you win my vote.

GonzoGamer:
(so was Teddy, just ask the Indians; that's right you can't because you probably don't know any)

Someone's a bit touchy. I would be too, but I live in an area where the indians are the one's that are better off than a lot of others.

Grr, always cutting that last bracket off in quotes.

I completely regret watching this. I don't like Abe very much seeing he caused a war by not refusing the presidency basically I blame him for the bad economy in the south for the past 130 odd years; cause the north raped the south and then pissed on it. And you wonder why we take it out on the former slaves.

The best president is Calvin Coolage cause he said little and did less and that is what America really needs.

Brad Gardner:
And you wonder why we take it out on the former slaves.

So you punish black people for something a white guy did yeah that makes sense.
Also if they would have given up slavery the war would never have happened and its not like the issues that led to the civil war would have just gone away if Lincoln was not president.

Ahhh and let the Conservative "historians" go on and tell us how horrible FDR and Wilson were and how Coolidge was the best president ever.

BehattedWanderer:
Judge fails for taking idiotic logical fallacies to be worth points. Bad judge! *whacks with newspaper* You don't do that anymore! On topic, Lincoln was a good president, and Teddy was easily one of the most badass presidents, but I'm just gonna leave this one here:

James. K. Polk.

In one term, accomplished all of his goals, ended a war, seized Oregon from Britain and the Southwest from Mexico, started naval academies and a separate treasury, was an outstanding orator, and came up from out of nowhere to be the strongest candidate, even against the incumbent. Boom.

He didn't run against the incumbent (John Tyler) he ran against Henry Clay. Henry Clay was pretty popular and seemed set for the presidency but due to his views on expansionism he lost. John Tyler was originally a Whig but even the Whigs themselves abandoned him and he was left without a party to back him up so he was essentially an independent (he wasn't elected as such, George Washington was the only other independent president and he was actually elected). Even then the Free Soil Party split the Whig Vote so it was hardly impressive. Although what was more impressive was the fact that Polk won despite the fact that Clay carried his home state of Tennessee.

If there is one election I'd consider to just be bad ass it'd be the election of 1948 with Truman, Truman was unpopular and everyone expected him to lose, a magazine which predicted the last 4 elections accurately predicted he would lose, his party was splitting up with the Progressive Party and the Dixiecrats and the Republicans themselves seldom mentioned him since they felt their victory was assured. Out of nowhere he started mobilizing FDR's New Deal coalition, promising to advance civil rights and create more welfare projects, he took the Republican platform and dared the Republican dominated congress to pass it, they of course balked and he discredited the Republicans as "The Do-Nothing Congress". The man won despite the Solid South voting Dixiecrat and another sizable portion of Democratic voters voting the Progressive party. If there's ever been such a badass comeback it's that.

TheFederation:
also Lincoln's four children died, his wife went to an insane asylum, and he suffered a depressed breakdown. and he carried on

Not entirely. One son survived, his name was Robert Lincoln. His mom pretty much kept going on spending spree's and Robert was worried that he was going to lose his inheritance to her. So he kept trying to get her declared insane and locked up in an insane asylum and he succeeded once after a crappy trial (a bunch of doctors came to testify she was insane despite the fact that they've never examined her) but eventually pretty much everyone from his relatives to his own wife went to his mother's side and the courts eventually found out it was bullshit and she was let go.

ravenshrike:
FDR is automatically FTL because of Japanese interment camps and court packing threats. Truman was a little bitch who instead of backing the Vietnamese backed the French(First rule of modern warfare, NEVER BACK THE FRENCH) which led pretty directly to the Vietnam war.

Um it kind of didn't? Kennedy's plans for Vietnam did. Even then there's Eisenhower and his approval of South Vietnam not participating in a united Vietnam election.

ravenshrike:

Eisenhower agreed with FDR to work with the Russians instead of letting Patton steamroll them out of Europe which led to the cold war.

Wait you mean they agreed not to start WWIII right after WWII? How is that a bad thing?

ravenshrike:

JFK was utterly bankrupt as a human being and cheated on his wife every chance he got

There were only two modern presidents which didn't, Jimmy Carter and Richard Nixon. So this seems to put only Jimmy Carter as a good president, but wait he wasn't.

ravenshrike:

and was killed before anything but the Cuban Missle Crisis could occur. Don't even get me started on LBJ.

Try to criticize LBJ without mentioning the Vietnam war. I mean the guy passed the landmark Civil Rights legislation, JFK seems to take credit for that despite the fact that unlike Kennedy Johnson had the ability to pass legislation.

ravenshrike:

In any case, the answer is obviously Washington, original American Badass.

I've always found this strange, I can't think of too much that he did that would make him great. Most arguments seem to be what he didn't do which made him great (like not establishing a kingdom or whatever), but I often see rankings pitting him as one of the top 3 usually. But come on, there has to be something more than that.

Bill Nye the Zombie:

Well, he did end a war, but only after starting it. Other than that, yeah, he did those things.

But best President ever? James Madison.

He started the war that brought together America from a collection of like 15 or 16 states, and made them a nation in more than name, his major rival political party, the Federalists, managed to self-destruct itself, which propelled the US into the Area of Good Feelings, and he brought backwoodsmen like Andrew Jackson and officers like Winfield Scott from nobodies and next to nobodies to people known all across America as Heroes. Plus his chosen successor, James Monroe, and his Secretary of State, John Quincy Adams, created the Monroe Doctrine.

So, in closing: James Madison,*in comic book guys voice* Best. President. Ever.

Now if you'll excuse me, I have to put away my inner APUSH student.

Franklin Pierce destroyed the Whig party but he was a horrible president(he was the incumbent and his own party nominated someone else over him). The War of 1812 was perhaps our most humiliating defeat ever, the British burned down the White House after all and captured Mid-Western states like Ohio with only some pathetic resistance (they took Fort Detriot without a shot). The invasion of Canada was an outright joke, they were seriously expecting to just march up there and take over Canada with very little fighting and were beat back by Canadian militia (many of which were Tories from the colonies during the Revolutionary war), then after Napoleon was defeated the British began raping America. I mean it was only through shear luck the British didn't re-captured the colonies. The army that burned down the White House was first hit by a hurricane and then hit by one of the biggest tornadoes in the area ever, the forces that would ultimately lose to Andrew Jackson forgot to bring ladders to storm the entrenchments, the tide of the river they were going to cross stopped them from doing so and they themselves lost coordination. It was pretty much sheer luck that America survived.

As for the Federalists, that wasn't really under Madison's control, the Federalists main support was from city merchants and aristocrats whereas the Democrats main support was from the rural populace. Because they were absorbing Federalist idea's and the new states coming in out West were Republican the Republicans were destined for dominance.

Joseph Harrison:

Nicolaus99:
So much flame bait, but hell, why not.

Psst, they're both Republicans.

Not really flamebait because I'm pretty sure that most people know that the Republicans were the liberal party while the Democrats were the conservative party back in those days.

Not really. Both parties had Conservative and Liberal wings, thus each President was often a compromise between the two. Woodrow Wilson and Theodore Roosevelt were such compromises. Both parties had huge Conservatives and huge Liberals, but it seems to be hard to find places where they disagree, the only place they seem to is in foreign policy.

The differences today though are because the Southern Conservatives left the Democrat party and joined the Republicans 1964 and many of the Liberals in the Republican party left to the Democratic party especially during the 80's where they were being purged.

Two words... Andrew Jackson!

He got into duels, got shot, multiple times, and survived.

...badass. To the point that the most offensive webcomics out there can't help but say so.

Axel: I wonder what our fusion mode is...
Zexion: Axel, you're a murderer, and I'm a politician. What we'd get if we combined is Adrew Jackson.
*Later*
Axel and Zexion: Who is on the Twenty? ANDREW JACKSON *******************! COMBINE!
*Side Story*
Private: Sir, we'll be overrun in a few days.
Adrew Jackson: F*** that, I'm gonna Make a Pirate Army!
Narrator:And so he did.

Oh hell, why did I have to bring Ansem Retort into this?! WHY?! Now everybody everywhere on this thread will be offended!

I gotta say, as a British guy, I think G.Washington was the greatest president of the US. I read about him somewhere, and the man seemed flawless.

Warforger:
1. Ahhh and let the Conservative "historians" go on and tell us how horrible FDR and Wilson were and how Coolidge was the best president ever.

BehattedWanderer:
snip

2. He didn't run against the incumbent (John Tyler) he ran against Henry Clay. Henry Clay was pretty popular and seemed set for the presidency but due to his views on expansionism he lost. John Tyler was originally a Whig but even the Whigs themselves abandoned him and he was left without a party to back him up so he was essentially an independent (he wasn't elected as such, George Washington was the only other independent president and he was actually elected). Even then the Free Soil Party split the Whig Vote so it was hardly impressive. Although what was more impressive was the fact that Polk won despite the fact that Clay carried his home state of Tennessee.

3. If there is one election I'd consider to just be bad ass it'd be the election of 1948 with Truman, Truman was unpopular and everyone expected him to lose, a magazine which predicted the last 4 elections accurately predicted he would lose, his party was splitting up with the Progressive Party and the Dixiecrats and the Republicans themselves seldom mentioned him since they felt their victory was assured. Out of nowhere he started mobilizing FDR's New Deal coalition, promising to advance civil rights and create more welfare projects, he took the Republican platform and dared the Republican dominated congress to pass it, they of course balked and he discredited the Republicans as "The Do-Nothing Congress". The man won despite the Solid South voting Dixiecrat and another sizable portion of Democratic voters voting the Progressive party. If there's ever been such a badass comeback it's that.

TheFederation:
snip

4. Not entirely. One son survived, his name was Robert Lincoln. His mom pretty much kept going on spending spree's and Robert was worried that he was going to lose his inheritance to her. So he kept trying to get her declared insane and locked up in an insane asylum and he succeeded once after a crappy trial (a bunch of doctors came to testify she was insane despite the fact that they've never examined her) but eventually pretty much everyone from his relatives to his own wife went to his mother's side and the courts eventually found out it was bullshit and she was let go.

ravenshrike:
snip

5. Try to criticize LBJ without mentioning the Vietnam war. I mean the guy passed the landmark Civil Rights legislation, JFK seems to take credit for that despite the fact that unlike Kennedy Johnson had the ability to pass legislation.

ravenshrike:
snip

6. I've always found this strange, I can't think of too much that he did that would make him great. Most arguments seem to be what he didn't do which made him great (like not establishing a kingdom or whatever), but I often see rankings pitting him as one of the top 3 usually. But come on, there has to be something more than that.

Bill Nye the Zombie:
snip

7. The War of 1812 was perhaps our most humiliating defeat ever, the British burned down the White House after all and captured Mid-Western states like Ohio with only some pathetic resistance (they took Fort Detriot without a shot). The invasion of Canada was an outright joke, they were seriously expecting to just march up there and take over Canada with very little fighting and were beat back by Canadian militia (many of which were Tories from the colonies during the Revolutionary war), then after Napoleon was defeated the British began raping America. I mean it was only through shear luck the British didn't re-captured the colonies. The army that burned down the White House was first hit by a hurricane and then hit by one of the biggest tornadoes in the area ever, the forces that would ultimately lose to Andrew Jackson forgot to bring ladders to storm the entrenchments, the tide of the river they were going to cross stopped them from doing so and they themselves lost coordination. It was pretty much sheer luck that America survived.

As for the Federalists, that wasn't really under Madison's control, the Federalists main support was from city merchants and aristocrats whereas the Democrats main support was from the rural populace. Because they were absorbing Federalist idea's and the new states coming in out West were Republican the Republicans were destined for dominance.

Joseph Harrison:

Nicolaus99:
snip

Not really flamebait because I'm pretty sure that most people know that the Republicans were the liberal party while the Democrats were the conservative party back in those days.

8. Not really. Both parties had Conservative and Liberal wings, thus each President was often a compromise between the two. Woodrow Wilson and Theodore Roosevelt were such compromises. Both parties had huge Conservatives and huge Liberals, but it seems to be hard to find places where they disagree, the only place they seem to is in foreign policy.

The differences today though are because the Southern Conservatives left the Democrat party and joined the Republicans 1964 and many of the Liberals in the Republican party left to the Democratic party especially during the 80's where they were being purged.

Do I sense a historical debate in the making?

1. Wait, there are people who actually think that Calvin "Oh-don't-mind-me-I'm-just-gonna-cause-the-Great-Depression" Coolidge is one of the Greatest Presidents?

2. Polk was a war-mongering asshole who invaded Mexico and stole half their country so that slavery could expand. The Mexican Cession caused the Fugitive Slave act and Bleeding Kansas so no, I do not think he is the Best President.

3. Truman's a beast because he fired MacArthur, nuff said.

4. Sad story about Robert Lincoln is that he is somehow related to the Lincoln, Garfield and McKinley assassinations.

5. LBJ's Greater Society (I think that's what it was called)is actually pretty sweet and his work fighting discrimination and poverty should be lauded. Unfortunately its overshadowed by him sending thousands of troops to Vietnam.

6. George Washington is considered to be one of the Best Presidents because he really established what it meant to be president, he created the Cabinet and set up the two term system for Presidents which went unbroken til FDR. He also managed to stay independent along party lines while not being out of the loop. Personally, I don't find him all that great, the only thing he actually did was put down the Whiskey Rebellion but people still worship him.

7. I think you're giving the British a little too much credit and the Americans too little. While at first it was a monstrous defeat, William Henry Harrison was able to take back Detroit and turn the war around a little although the War ended before anything really could be achieved. Also, Stephen Decatur won quite a few battles on the Great lakes IIRC. Although it kills me to say anything positive about Andrew "Genocide and Economic Collapse" Jackson you can't say that he won the Battle of New Orleans entirely due to luck.

Also The Federalists collapsed because they were against the War of 1812, which was immensely popular and because they wanted to secede from the US to form the Essex Junto.

8. How do you define Liberal and Conservative? For me its:
Liberal= Big gov't, high taxes, high spending, change
Conseravtive= Small gov't, low taxes, low spending, keep things the same

I believe that Lincoln and Teddy both fall rather firmly in the Liberal category.

FDR is clearly the right choice.
He knew America would not elect a cripple, so he convinced America he wasn't crippled, by walking.
He:
-Fixed the worst economic crash in U.S. history
-Won a pretty damn big war.
-Slept with every single thing that moves.
-Was elected twice as many times as any other U.S. President.
At the same time.
While Confined to a wheelchair.

Joseph Harrison:
6. George Washington is considered to be one of the Best Presidents because he really established what it meant to be president, he created the Cabinet and set up the two term system for Presidents which went unbroken til FDR. He also managed to stay independent along party lines while not being out of the loop. Personally, I don't find him all that great, the only thing he actually did was put down the Whiskey Rebellion but people still worship him.

Did any of the other presidents get the nickname of "The Town Destroyer"? No? Nuff said.

Nicolaus99:
So much flame bait, but hell, why not.

Psst, they're both Republicans.

Republicans used to be good reps of the people, now they be jerks.

This topic was boring (not from the US). Why not do best fictional presidents?

I'm not an American but I admire the hell out of LBJ. He was like a liberal Nixon who didn't do anything illegal. A being of pure politics and rat cunning.
Three stories, apocryphal or not, make LBJ awesome.

The "start a rumour he's a pig fucker" story.

Laying his cock on the desk of the oval office and claiming "the Viet Minh will never get this!"

re: J Edgar Hoover "Better to have him inside the tent pissing out than outside pissing in"

My favorite two reasons for LBJ would be:

At times history and fate meet at a single time in a single place to shape a turning point in man's unending search for freedom. So it was at Lexington and Concord. So it was a century ago at Appomattox. So it was last week in Selma, Alabama. There is no Negro problem. There is no southern problem. There is no northern problem. There is only an American problem. Many of the issues of civil rights are very complex and most difficult. But about this there can and should be no argument. Every American citizen must have the right to vote...Yet the harsh fact is that in many places in this country men and women are kept from voting simply because they are Negroes... No law that we now have on the books...can insure the right to vote when local officials are determined to deny it... There is no Constitutional issue here. The command of the Constitution is plain. There is no moral issue. It is wrong-deadly wrong-to deny any of your fellow Americans the right to vote in this country. There is no issue of States' rights or National rights. There is only the struggle for human rights.

and

You do not wipe away the scars of centuries by saying: 'now, you are free to go where you want, do as you desire, and choose the leaders you please.' You do not take a man who for years has been hobbled by chains, liberate him, bring him to the starting line of a race, saying, "you are free to compete with all the others," and still justly believe you have been completely fair... This is the next and more profound stage of the battle for civil rights. We seek not just freedom but opportunity-not just legal equity but human ability-not just equality as a right and a theory, but equality as a fact and as a result.

Warforger:
\

Bill Nye the Zombie:

Well, he did end a war, but only after starting it. Other than that, yeah, he did those things.

But best President ever? James Madison.

He started the war that brought together America from a collection of like 15 or 16 states, and made them a nation in more than name, his major rival political party, the Federalists, managed to self-destruct itself, which propelled the US into the Area of Good Feelings, and he brought backwoodsmen like Andrew Jackson and officers like Winfield Scott from nobodies and next to nobodies to people known all across America as Heroes. Plus his chosen successor, James Monroe, and his Secretary of State, John Quincy Adams, created the Monroe Doctrine.

So, in closing: James Madison,*in comic book guys voice* Best. President. Ever.

Now if you'll excuse me, I have to put away my inner APUSH student.

Franklin Pierce destroyed the Whig party but he was a horrible president(he was the incumbent and his own party nominated someone else over him). The War of 1812 was perhaps our most humiliating defeat ever, the British burned down the White House after all and captured Mid-Western states like Ohio with only some pathetic resistance (they took Fort Detriot without a shot). The invasion of Canada was an outright joke, they were seriously expecting to just march up there and take over Canada with very little fighting and were beat back by Canadian militia (many of which were Tories from the colonies during the Revolutionary war), then after Napoleon was defeated the British began raping America. I mean it was only through shear luck the British didn't re-captured the colonies. The army that burned down the White House was first hit by a hurricane and then hit by one of the biggest tornadoes in the area ever, the forces that would ultimately lose to Andrew Jackson forgot to bring ladders to storm the entrenchments, the tide of the river they were going to cross stopped them from doing so and they themselves lost coordination. It was pretty much sheer luck that America survived.

As for the Federalists, that wasn't really under Madison's control, the Federalists main support was from city merchants and aristocrats whereas the Democrats main support was from the rural populace. Because they were absorbing Federalist idea's and the new states coming in out West were Republican the Republicans were destined for dominance.

First off, there were no Republicans during the Era of Good Feelings. There were only Democrats. Republicans only came around in the 1850s, unless you count the Know-Nothings who came in around the 1840s.

Second, we, a ragtag nation, managed to best the British Navy to the point where their newspapers were moaning about the fact they couldn't win, Had the British government court- marshaling everyone and anyone who lost a battle, and stopped veteran armies from the Peninsula and other Napoleonic campaigns at Chippawa, Lundy's Lane, Baltimore, and at New Orleans, with an army of pirates, creoles, Kentuckian and Tennessean milita, and a handful of regular soldiers, we crushed the best the British had to offer with only a handful of casualties. That by itself is something to be proud of, but at the same time, our country of 18 independent states became a nation, all because of "Mr. Madison's War".

And finally, they didn't "forget" to bring the ladders, the British general who was in charge of it ran, was court-martialed afterwords, and was dismissed from the service.

I like teddy just cause he's a badass. While Lincoln was great, I think he's just a bit overrated. And for FDR, I would like to say he was great, but my personal bias does not allow me to. He set up Japanese concentration camps, which goes completely against the entire idea of being American. Otherwise FDR was pretty awesome too.

...god damn it kyle how could you not mention that Roosevelt inspired batman, like straight up was the basis for bat man, and he was a cow boy, and he was a boxer, and he beat people up with sticks while whispering sweet nothings to them!... wait a sec i think i screwed one of those up...

Nixon is obviously the greatest American president.

ravenshrike:

gphjr14:

ravenshrike:
FDR is automatically FTL because of Japanese interment camps and court packing threats. Truman was a little bitch who instead of backing the Vietnamese backed the French(First rule of modern warfare, NEVER BACK THE FRENCH) which led pretty directly to the Vietnam war. Eisenhower agreed with FDR to work with the Russians instead of letting Patton steamroll them out of Europe which led to the cold war. JFK was utterly bankrupt as a human being and cheated on his wife every chance he got and was killed before anything but the Cuban Missle Crisis could occur. Don't even get me started on LBJ.

In any case, the answer is obviously Washington, original American Badass.

Hey LBJ had a pretty aggressive civil rights reformation. He knew he couldn't win an election so he might as well piss off a bunch of southern democrats. In retrospect if you're not a minority you probably don't care about all that...

He also FUBARed SocSec long term, started the drug war which Nixon cheerfully expanded upon, implemented his Great Society which pretty much directly led to the rise in unwed mothers among other social ills, started the feds meddling in education helping lead to the rot found in today's public education system, and was an all around asshole.

By that logic George Washington is an all around asshole since he owned slaves. That and he helped secure Americas sovereignty so in order to take even more land from the Native Americans, but then again great and good seldom describe the same person.

gphjr14:

ravenshrike:

gphjr14:

Hey LBJ had a pretty aggressive civil rights reformation. He knew he couldn't win an election so he might as well piss off a bunch of southern democrats. In retrospect if you're not a minority you probably don't care about all that...

He also FUBARed SocSec long term, started the drug war which Nixon cheerfully expanded upon, implemented his Great Society which pretty much directly led to the rise in unwed mothers among other social ills, started the feds meddling in education helping lead to the rot found in today's public education system, and was an all around asshole.

By that logic George Washington is an all around asshole since he owned slaves. That and he helped secure Americas sovereignty so in order to take even more land from the Native Americans, but then again great and good seldom describe the same person.

Considering by all around asshole I meant his conduct in public and private over shit like his scar and general unpresidential conduct, not quite.

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1642536,00.html

Once, when LBJ was still the Senate majority leader, Sidey was having a late drink with him in the Johnson ranch house in Texas. Lady Bird and a staff member came down the stairs responding to LBJ's shout. They were both in pajamas and night robes. Johnson stood up, gathered them in his huge arms and began to fondle a breast of each woman. Sidey later said that Lady Bird's restraint - she did nothing, but sweetly - is what calmed him down. After the White House, when confronted with some of these stories, Lady Bird shunted all wrath aside. "Lyndon always did like the ladies."

Now, it's possible they had an open relationship, but I find that unlikely.

So glad to hear someone else wants a president with big ole facial hair. I've made a solemn promise that I'll vote for the next candidate with huge muttonchops or a rocking stache.

As a Canadian I just want to point out that the Queen is only on our coins and twenty dollar bills. The rest of the bills have our greatest prime ministers.

Although the first one was a drunk who accepted bribes, the WWI guy on the $100 bill rigged the election to beat the guy on the $5 bill and the guy on the $50 had multiple dogs named Pat (his favorite of which he had stuffed), loved Hitler and followed the advice of his dead father to lead the country through WWII.

Lvl 64 Klutz:

On that note, though, this episode needs a follow-up for best *Fictional* US President.

Knowing these guys the disembodied head of Nixon would win.

Kitsune Hunter:
No love for JFK or George Washington?

image

regarding jfk, he's responsible for sadam hussein being allowed in power, as well as botching any attempt on castro. He paved the way for pretty boys with good smiles and voices too win elections over clearly better leaders. Also he played a part in the US getting into vietnam.

George washington is a good choice but he took bad economical advice and started the American trend of constant debt.

OT i go with Teddy, but i'm biased since in my senior year we had to do a political debate for president of the world with random icons throughout the world. In the end it ended up roosevelt vs lincoln and i won by claiming lincoln knocked up a few slaves, and hid them from the public. We could lie but only subtly :P if someone picked up on it you got eliminated.

First fact, I'm an Englishman, so my perspective is obviously coloured by that little fact. Though I am a big fan of Lincoln and his achievements, I would argue that FDR might or might not have outdone them.
FDR, after was was the man who secured super-power status for the USA. In 1932, at his inauguration, he inherited a country crippled by the greatest economic crisis in its history. More than that, it was fatally hamstrung by the kind of pig-headed dogmatism regarding free-markets that we see today. And he overcame them, more of less, and despite having a supreme court full of these free-market Jesuits. Men who would rather stick to 'correct economic doctrine', rather than actually solve the very real and very serious problems, i.e. high unemployment, that was facing the country.
And then there was more. Europe was on the verges on throwing itself into a war beyond all comprehension. With certain states run by men of comic-book evil status. Yet of course, the USA had strong isolationist sentiments. However, he saw the danger, and prior to having his hand forced by the Japanese, he helped out when and where he could. As an Englishman, for that I am eternally grateful.
If he had a fault, it was that he died far, far too soon. So not really his fault then after all. However, on a more serious note, he was perhaps unable to believe just what a thug Stalin was. Goodness knows what a post-war world would have looked like had he remained fit and capable.

A best president list without Washington or Jefferson? Sorry but no respect for this one.

Bill Nye the Zombie:

First off, there were no Republicans during the Era of Good Feelings. There were only Democrats. Republicans only came around in the 1850s, unless you count the Know-Nothings who came in around the 1840s.

No, the party I'm talking about is mostly called "Democratic-Republicans" but I just call them Republicans because that's what they called themselves. The Democrats are not that party. By 1828 the Republican party had split into the Democrats led by Andrew Jackson and the National Republicans led by John Quincy Adams and Henry Clay.

As for the Know Nothings, those were mostly local mainly in Maryland IIRC, but when the Whig party disintegrated it split into the American Party and the Republican party the American party being the new Know Nothing party, that party then transitioned into the Constitutional Union party before finally going to the Republicans.

Bill Nye the Zombie:

Second, we, a ragtag nation, managed to best the British Navy to the point where their newspapers were moaning about the fact they couldn't win,

Um they constantly won at the very least on the East Coast (hence why they burned down the White House), the Great Lakes got better towards the end but not anything conclusive.

Bill Nye the Zombie:

Had the British government court- marshaling everyone and anyone who lost a battle, and stopped veteran armies from the Peninsula and other Napoleonic campaigns at Chippawa, Lundy's Lane, Baltimore, and at New Orleans, with an army of pirates, creoles, Kentuckian and Tennessean milita, and a handful of regular soldiers, we crushed the best the British had to offer with only a handful of casualties.

In a couple of battles, otherwise the British just steamrolled a bunch of untrained militia hence again WHY THEY BURNED THE WHITE HOUSE DOWN.

Bill Nye the Zombie:

That by itself is something to be proud of, but at the same time, our country of 18 independent states became a nation, all because of "Mr. Madison's War".

Not sure it was called that, but the goal of the war was to capture Canada, not survive British onslaught, and in that objective Mr. Madison failed. Sure the Americans got lucky and repelled the British because the weather really hated them. Yah overall it did have positive effects on America, but that doesn't mean it was because the war was such a success.

Bill Nye the Zombie:

And finally, they didn't "forget" to bring the ladders, the British general who was in charge of it ran, was court-martialed afterwords, and was dismissed from the service.

Doesn't seem like you negated what I said.

Joseph Harrison:

1. Wait, there are people who actually think that Calvin "Oh-don't-mind-me-I'm-just-gonna-cause-the-Great-Depression" Coolidge is one of the Greatest Presidents?

Yup. I would link to the GOP wall of their heroes, but apparently they took that content out.

Joseph Harrison:

2. Polk was a war-mongering asshole who invaded Mexico and stole half their country so that slavery could expand. The Mexican Cession caused the Fugitive Slave act and Bleeding Kansas so no, I do not think he is the Best President.

The thing though was that he had a goal at the beginning of his office i.e. to expand the territory of the United States and deal with all of its foreign policy issues and he succeeded. He dealt with the SouthWest and he got Oregon all like he promised.

Joseph Harrison:

6. George Washington is considered to be one of the Best Presidents because he really established what it meant to be president, he created the Cabinet and set up the two term system for Presidents which went unbroken til FDR. He also managed to stay independent along party lines while not being out of the loop. Personally, I don't find him all that great, the only thing he actually did was put down the Whiskey Rebellion but people still worship him.

Yah he did roughly nothing while the nation wasn't well booming. It just seems outside the Whiskey Rebellion and Jay's Treaty nothing happened during his term.

Joseph Harrison:

Also The Federalists collapsed because they were against the War of 1812, which was immensely popular and because they wanted to secede from the US to form the Essex Junto.

The thing though was that their support was already falling apart, this was just the death blow.

Joseph Harrison:

8. How do you define Liberal and Conservative? For me its:
Liberal= Big gov't, high taxes, high spending, change
Conseravtive= Small gov't, low taxes, low spending, keep things the same

I believe that Lincoln and Teddy both fall rather firmly in the Liberal category.

Lincoln again was sort of in the middle if not leaning towards Conservative, I mean he started out openly not even wanting to ban slavery just keep it from expanding into the territories. Yet he made a couple of steps to ban it (by then the border states had also banned slavery so there wasn't as much opposition to a national ban). His Reconstruction plan was well really lenient, only 10% of people pledging loyalty to the Union and they get to get re-admitted? He was more leaning on the Conservative Republicans so the Radical Republicans often threatened to leave the party (they temporarily ran against him in 1864 with John C. Fremont but Fremont dropped the campaign as election day approached).

Theodore Roosevelt called his Domestic Policy the "Square Deal" where he becomes the in between the Conservative and the Progressive. So I wouldn't exactly call him a liberal nor would I automatically associate Progressivism with Liberals because Progressivism is many different things that can go on all ends of the spectrum. For example Eugenics was a Progressive movement and Theodore Roosevelt was a pretty big racist when it came to foreign affairs, and that certainly was a pretty Conservative movement. Another example would be the Temperance movement which would evolve into the Prohibition movement, that was also considered a pretty Conservative movement but it was also Progressive. But like I said he was a compromise candidate like Woodrow Wilson, a guy in between. In 1912 he was pretty Liberal, but at that point he was probably just pretending to believe in that stuff because the whole point of his campaign was to get Taft to adopt a more Progressive platform.

But I generally think Liberal and Conservative are terms that are defined by time period and area, obviously a Conservative from Lincoln's time would all be irrelevant now. I mean even better when going back the 1790's, many of the issues there would be hard to place on our modern spectrum mainly because everything was so different. It's more interesting when going to other countries like say those in Eastern Europe, are Socialists left wingers or are they right wingers there? If Conservatism is trying to conserve what you had before then shouldn't Socialists there be right wingers? Things like that make me distrust the whole spectrum as simplifying such a complex thing as ideologies.

Parshooter:

Knowing these guys the disembodied head of Nixon would win.

I thought that too, but then I remembered that Nixon is technically President of Earth, so it wouldn't count. My vote would be on David Palmer.

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