The Best Kept Secret

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You just need to use your enemy's paranoia against them - anyone who is so obviously a member of the Illuminati can't possibly be a member of the Illuminati.

So you're saying the Invisible hands choked?

Grey Carter:
Which really makes me wonder why someone decided to staple a piss-poor MMO to the side of its head.

And that's the literally only reason i don't play it yet

And since i REALLY don't like MMOs, i doubt the free weekend won't convert me either...

Well it was funcom, something piss poor was going to be stapled to it.

Grey Carter:
Which really makes me wonder why someone decided to staple a piss-poor MMO to the side of its head.

This is pretty much the main problem with not only Secret World, but other games as well, like TOR - an awesome premise is watered down to make adhere to the MMO patterns the market demands. SW is IMO just the best example, filling a niche that's basically empty (urban fantasy, lovecraftian fantasy, etc.), but then decides to waste it on an MMO.

Because investors like the word MMO.

It makes Blizzard dollars light up in their eyes.

Like with The Old Republic. It never needed to be an MMO. It could never be an MMO as shown by the current failure of a MMO we have. All people wanted was KOTOR3 and now that it's going FTP they made the story entirely free... meaning absolutely no one will actually pay for it. Because that is all anyone ever asked for.

MMO. Sounds good on paper. Only worked Once.

Probably would have tried it myself had it not been an MMO. Why can't we just have co-op RPGs anymore? They were making them over a decade ago... they do exist!

1337mokro:
Because investors like the word MMO.

It makes Blizzard dollars light up in their eyes.

Like with The Old Republic. It never needed to be an MMO. It could never be an MMO as shown by the current failure of a MMO we have. All people wanted was KOTOR3 and now that it's going FTP they made the story entirely free... meaning absolutely no one will actually pay for it. Because that is all anyone ever asked for.

MMO. Sounds good on paper. Only worked Once.

I dunno... MMOs do tend to work, just not in the subscription market anymore. Secret World will eventually head to F2P town, much like TOR has. Not sure if it'll happen quicker because the game's bottom line is lower. Still... MMOs will continue to be made until they start to fail and disappear more regularly.

And no, that's not happening yet. Right now the F2P model is righting every MMO that looks ready to disappear. Champions Online, Star Trek Online, LOTRO, DDO, City of Heroes... these all went F2P and are all doing various degrees better than when they were subscription only.

Bah dirty Lumies! Leave it to the Templars we will sort this mess out without trying to profit from it :p

I really enjoy secret world. But you are right the MMO part seems completely unnecessary. The dungeons are pretty good though and you need tactics from the start.

It's a bit different from other MMO's and that's, at least, quite nice.

MMO's are so off-putting.

Secret World did sound good for half a minute until finding out it's an MMO with the usual payment system to even add to it, diminishing interest below zero.

1337mokro:
MMO. Sounds good on paper. Only worked Once.

Well if we're talking about subscription based MMOs they've technically worked 3 times, once with Ultima Online, twice with EverQuest and thrice with World of Warcraft.

If we're talking about the F2P market, as Quiotu said there's plenty of MMOs that have been WAY more successful once they went F2P than when they had a subscription.

Noxogz:

1337mokro:
MMO. Sounds good on paper. Only worked Once.

Well if we're talking about subscription based MMOs they've technically worked 3 times, once with Ultima Online, twice with EverQuest and thrice with World of Warcraft.

If we're talking about the F2P market, as Quiotu said there's plenty of MMOs that have been WAY more successful once they went F2P than when they had a subscription.

Dont forget EVE.. Or any of the non-english MMO's out there.

You know, I read these comments and the pattern I see here is everybody saying "Oh this is a great idea for a game...but 'cause it's an MMO, I hate it!"

If you don't like MMO's, that's fine. But seriously, this attitude that the genre is something that will kill any game concept, no matter how great, is getting stupid. A number of the common problems with MMO's can be blamed not on game mechanics, but on players; people destroying the sense of immersion and enjoyment of the game's content through behavior like teabagging, stripping their characters down to their underwear, spamming the chat channels with garbage, etc.

When the complaints are related to game mechanics, a number of the more common ones I've heard regarding the MMO-du-jour aren't about broken or bugged programs or AI, but more about how cookie cutter the mechanics get. Stationary NPC's handing out your typical kill-ten-rats style missions, combat based around you and a monster standing in place and taking turns wacking each other while waiting for special attack cooldowns to end, repetitive grind of the same activities just to build up reputation with factions are among the most common.

From the accounts I've read (I could be mistaken but it's what I heard), Secret World has avoided a number of the bog-standard-mechanics problems with active combat, skill sets based on equipment instead of class and mission structures that have you actually investigate rather than just follow a pointer on your HUD. For the issues with player behavior, that can't be blamed immediately on the game itself and the solution isn't found in the game, but in the players and the support given by its parent company. Players need to police their own communities and report violations of in-game behavior rules, while the parent company needs to enforce those rules, issuing warnings to people who commit minor violations, suspending people who commit serious violations and banning repeat offenders.

So frankly, I think immediately saying Secret World sucks just because it's an MMO is seriously jumping the gun. The game isn't even a half-year old yet; let's give it some time before calling it a lemon.

The trailers gave the impression of a spooky atmospheric modern fantasy horror game kind of aesthetic. Everything about being an MMO defeats that feel, whether it's killing three dozen blue ghosts to appease a quest dispensing npc, or teaming up with a dozen human players to take on a dozen other human players, or teaming up with two dozen people you don't know to raid a boss in the hope of rare loot drops. It's hard to be scared when there's so many of you, and it's hard to get immersed in the setting when the nature of the game requires you to be completely aware of how everything in it works lest your team call you a 'newbtard' and boot you from your guild for using a less than optimized DPS rotation.

It's not that being a WoW-style MMO ruins any great game concept. It doesn't, for instance ruin a tongue in cheek high fantasy affair - like, say, WoW or LoL. But it certainly ruins this one.

That sounds about as interesting as watching paint dry far as I'm concerned.

However, on a more positive not Critical Miss appears to be back to the normal joke format rather than the "character arc" that very nearly pushed me away for good. Hopefully it'll stay that way.

Also: Was anyone else expecting this to be a reference to the old Robocop cheat code? No?

Simple solution to make a profitable MMO.

Make a Pokemon MMO like people have wanted for years.
Make it F2P with Microtransactions for aesthetic things or to help buy more actual in-game items (potions, pokeballs, etc.)
Charge $10 for each subsequent region released after launch.
Profit!

Nikolaz72:
Dont forget EVE.. Or any of the non-english MMO's out there.

Doh!

How the hell did I forgot EVE, if there's one MMO I'm 100% certain it will never go F2P it's definitely EVE, I would bet WoW would go F2P before EVE does.

And also add Lineage to the list of successful sub based MMOs, which back in the day actually had more subscribers than EQ.

Thanks for reminding me.

Thank you Grey, I was trying to think of a new title and you gave me the perfect one.

I'll be honest, when it comes to The Secret World, I just stopped at "if you pick this class the game starts with a woman giving you a blowjob. Even if you're playing a female character. And it's unskippable."

No, thanks. I'm waiting for an actually good videogame (*cough*cough*GuildWars2*coff*).

Mike Fang:

So frankly, I think immediately saying Secret World sucks just because it's an MMO is seriously jumping the gun. The game isn't even a half-year old yet; let's give it some time before calling it a lemon.

I don't think it sucks because it's an MMO, I think it sucks because it's a subscription-based MMO. Actually, I don't even think the product itself might suck because of that, I just think the business model behind it sucks. I hold no secrets about the fact that I have a paid subscription for WoW, but that's exactly why I'm not interested in The Secret World: For however interesting I thought it looked before it was released, the fact that it's a subscription-based MMO means I don't have the ability to play it because I don't want to hemorrhage $30 US a month for two video games. It's the same reason I lost all interest in Tera after it released.

Anarchy Online is still online and as far as i know, they make money with it and the same for Age of Conan. Funcom isnt new to the MMORPG and Adventure Genre and they make profit.

btw: Hackz0r. Mask is only possible with the complete uniform so far. :D

Honestly the first time I saw the Secret World I was definitely intrigued. Then I found out about the subscription fee and saw EA's logo on it. At this point I've heard plenty of people who both hate and love it so I really don't know but I'm just not paying for subscription fees or EA games anymore.

TSW is good.
Not spectacular, but enough not like WoW to be worth the time and money.
I have an Assault Rifle. And pair of suppressed MAC-11's.
They do magic. Against mini-Cthulu.
It's satisfying.

Also, the old lady with the shotgun rambles. It's her style of speaking. And she makes a _single_ Greek myth reference. C'mon now.

Noxogz:
And also add Lineage to the list of successful sub based MMOs, which back in the day actually had more subscribers than EQ.

Lineage had a pay-per-hour internet cafe system that made it difficult to compare with its western contemporaries. They had a whole hell of a lot of "active accounts" with a relatively low revenue per user number. Not all that much different from straight up free to play, really. I don't think they ever actually broke down the numbers for home users with a monthly subscription, which suggests that wasn't where they made their money.

shrekfan246:

I don't think it sucks because it's an MMO, I think it sucks because it's a subscription-based MMO. Actually, I don't even think the product itself might suck because of that, I just think the business model behind it sucks. I hold no secrets about the fact that I have a paid subscription for WoW, but that's exactly why I'm not interested in The Secret World: For however interesting I thought it looked before it was released, the fact that it's a subscription-based MMO means I don't have the ability to play it because I don't want to hemorrhage $30 US a month for two video games. It's the same reason I lost all interest in Tera after it released.

True, the subscription-based MMO is becoming more and more unpopular as more and more MMOs prove they can remain stable (though perhaps not an endless waterfall of money) using a F2P model with a cash shop for specialty items and abilities.

"Which really makes me wonder why someone decided to staple a piss-poor MMO to the side of its head."

This. So, so this. The Secret World could have been brilliant.

Instead, we got an over-priced MMO with just these little "what might have been" moments scattered throughout.

Ah, disappointment ... my constant companion.

Grey Carter:
The Best Kept Secret

Training Day

Read Full Article

I request photographic evidence of this strange life-form, the "occult pimp." Truly, it must be a sight to behold.

My friends were all hyped for this game and they told me about it. Looked it up and was just turned off by the combat system, among other things. Might think about playing if it goes free to play. Doubt that I will though.

Mike Fang:

So frankly, I think immediately saying Secret World sucks just because it's an MMO is seriously jumping the gun. The game isn't even a half-year old yet; let's give it some time before calling it a lemon.

By no means does it make the game suck but, for me at least, it makes it significantly less appealing, and feel like wasted potential of an interesting setting.

I love Star Wars, I love RPGS, I (generally) really like Bioware games. But I hated the constant grind, the repetitive quests and bumping into six other dudes with the same npc partner as me, shouting into the chat box "HAVE DARTH REVAN LIGHTSABER ACCPETING OFFERS!!"

All of those un-fun things take me out of the experience and ultimately made me cancel my subscription. While that might not be the case with The Secret World, I'm just not willing to pay 60 bucks plus a subscription to find out. A shame, really.

Quiotu:

1337mokro:
Because investors like the word MMO.

It makes Blizzard dollars light up in their eyes.

Like with The Old Republic. It never needed to be an MMO. It could never be an MMO as shown by the current failure of a MMO we have. All people wanted was KOTOR3 and now that it's going FTP they made the story entirely free... meaning absolutely no one will actually pay for it. Because that is all anyone ever asked for.

MMO. Sounds good on paper. Only worked Once.

I dunno... MMOs do tend to work, just not in the subscription market anymore. Secret World will eventually head to F2P town, much like TOR has. Not sure if it'll happen quicker because the game's bottom line is lower. Still... MMOs will continue to be made until they start to fail and disappear more regularly.

And no, that's not happening yet. Right now the F2P model is righting every MMO that looks ready to disappear. Champions Online, Star Trek Online, LOTRO, DDO, City of Heroes... these all went F2P and are all doing various degrees better than when they were subscription only.

But that is kinda of the point isn't it.

What do most of those MMO's actually add by the fact they are MMO's? Friends to play with? Make the game coop and have the Host carry the burden and offer dedicated servers or allow players to host the game.

Continuous content? DLC. If I am going to pay 5 dollars anyway I'd rather pay it once than get nickel and dimed.

What does the F2P model have over just making the game a single player or coop rpg? In the end nothing really. We could have had a nice singleplayer superhero game without the rubberbanding done so everyone looks equal in powers.

Without the MMO part we could have just gotten a deep and thorough story for KOTOR. Rather than a seriously weak raiding and PvP section with a nice story, a nice story which is soon free meaning no one will actually pay money for it.

In the end a simple RPG without the server costs will be more lucrative and require less on going support.

Sure F2P is a good Lifeline for MMO's... but why do MMO's require these lifelines? Maybe it's because people really just want singleplayer experiences, which they can have for cheap change now compared to a full release.

Noxogz:

Nikolaz72:
Dont forget EVE.. Or any of the non-english MMO's out there.

Doh!

How the hell did I forgot EVE, if there's one MMO I'm 100% certain it will never go F2P it's definitely EVE, I would bet WoW would go F2P before EVE does.

And also add Lineage to the list of successful sub based MMOs, which back in the day actually had more subscribers than EQ.

Thanks for reminding me.

Of course not. Didn't Yahtzee call it a 2nd job you have to pay for?

Mcoffey:

By no means does it make the game suck but, for me at least, it makes it significantly less appealing, and feel like wasted potential of an interesting setting.

I love Star Wars, I love RPGS, I (generally) really like Bioware games. But I hated the constant grind, the repetitive quests and bumping into six other dudes with the same npc partner as me, shouting into the chat box "HAVE DARTH REVAN LIGHTSABER ACCPETING OFFERS!!"

All of those un-fun things take me out of the experience and ultimately made me cancel my subscription. While that might not be the case with The Secret World, I'm just not willing to pay 60 bucks plus a subscription to find out. A shame, really.

This is understandable, and yes, the MMO's that follow the bog-standard, cookie-cutter, WoW-cloned formats tend to eventually be a letdown. Some parts you can't do much about. Other parts you can. For example, the chat box spam? You can minimize your exposure by turning off the general, trade, and other such channels when you don't need them. True it can't get rid of the twerps (I'd use another word that has t and w as it's first two letters, but the censor feature wouldn't let me...) who leapfrog around you, teabag corpses, etc., but it's a start, at least.

Nikolaz72:

Noxogz:

1337mokro:
MMO. Sounds good on paper. Only worked Once.

Well if we're talking about subscription based MMOs they've technically worked 3 times, once with Ultima Online, twice with EverQuest and thrice with World of Warcraft.

If we're talking about the F2P market, as Quiotu said there's plenty of MMOs that have been WAY more successful once they went F2P than when they had a subscription.

Dont forget EVE.. Or any of the non-english MMO's out there.

Of course I was exaggerating. The point I was making was they are just chasing after WoW's 350 million dollar annual revenue. A hopeless dream that is impossible in this day and age. The other MMO's you named really can't come close to that, if an investor names an MMO they don't think Drakensang Online, they think WoW! As in WoW I sure would like 350 million dollars a year.

Even so to say EVE worked isn't really that correct. EVE works but has a VERY limited new player stream. They have their market but not much else outside of that. Same goes for Ultima and Everquest. I think Everquest is F2P btw. That is really the thing about subscription MMO's nowadays.

Subscription MMO's are dying. But that is not my point. An MMO has a certain amount of rules and mechanics. Most of those mechanics just get in the way of an actual story. I have played the game above, got a trial invite from a friend, and what I thought constantly was "Wow this game would have been awesome if it hadn't been an MMO."

Just to share an experience with you. I was speaking with my friend about getting some stylish outfits. Tight suits, black ties, fedoras the whole work (we sadly couldn't as far as I can remember maybe those things aren't even in the game) so we just went with standard T-shirt and cap. We join a mission for the first time and BAM! Bright PINK POLKA DOT poncho illuminati joins us. I also get a taste of the "combat" which thanks to the MMO portion is really really horrible.

The MMO mechanics are literally Crowbarred into the game. Shooting would have been great in real time rather than being the regular hotkey bullshit. The story would have been much better if I could actually stay immersed without "trading xxxxxxx" spamming the chats or other stuff

The only thing going through my mind was. This game would have been awesome with internet coop or even solo. The atmosphere is awesome if it wasn't for the bright pink polkadot polka shotgunning goons in the face.

Mike Fang:

Mcoffey:

By no means does it make the game suck but, for me at least, it makes it significantly less appealing, and feel like wasted potential of an interesting setting.

I love Star Wars, I love RPGS, I (generally) really like Bioware games. But I hated the constant grind, the repetitive quests and bumping into six other dudes with the same npc partner as me, shouting into the chat box "HAVE DARTH REVAN LIGHTSABER ACCPETING OFFERS!!"

All of those un-fun things take me out of the experience and ultimately made me cancel my subscription. While that might not be the case with The Secret World, I'm just not willing to pay 60 bucks plus a subscription to find out. A shame, really.

This is understandable, and yes, the MMO's that follow the bog-standard, cookie-cutter, WoW-cloned formats tend to eventually be a letdown. Some parts you can't do much about. Other parts you can. For example, the chat box spam? You can minimize your exposure by turning off the general, trade, and other such channels when you don't need them. True it can't get rid of the twerps (I'd use another word that has t and w as it's first two letters, but the censor feature wouldn't let me...) who leapfrog around you, teabag corpses, etc., but it's a start, at least.

yeah I definitely kept my chat box usage to a minimum, but the other people, as anti-social as it sounds, are a big turn-off for me.

Even the MMO's that don't have the cookie-cutter formula, like EVE, are less appealing because there are other people not as immersed in the game and not concerned with fucking other people's experience.

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