The Best Kept Secret

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I like the MMO lots of customization, it just needs more of it and less annoying MMO stuff >> LOL

I think the main driver behind the MMOness was having factions tangle with each other on a deeper level than what you could ostensibly set up as a static world with staged conflict.

ofc who knows how effective it is in practice without playing

Grey Carter:
The Best Kept Secret

Training Day

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Always good to discover another Dark Tower fan.
Dad a chum?

Agreed. Secret World has so much great potential, but I hate the fact that it's a MMO. It's a bummer.

Keep in mind it's not like it's bad because it's an mmo. The problem is that it goes with the same old kill ten bears do we have buffs up okay let's wipe ten more times oh sweet purples mechanics. These things make MMOs that will sell, but they aren't mandatory. Granted it's pretty difficult to deviate and still get investment, but it can be done.

Eve Online, whatever you think of it, does throw most of that in the toilet and offers a completely different type of game while still being an mmo. I'm sure someone, somewhere, could make gameplay centred around secrets and espionage with no boar livers in sight, and still have it work in an MMO.

I really really wanted to play The Secret World... but I will not pay per month for an MMO, I'm sorry. I mean, I already payed once. If anything, go freemium. Pwease?

80Maxwell08:
Honestly the first time I saw the Secret World I was definitely intrigued. Then I found out about the subscription fee and saw EA's logo on it. At this point I've heard plenty of people who both hate and love it so I really don't know but I'm just not paying for subscription fees or EA games anymore.

I had the same concerns but it turns out EA only did the box sales. You can order the game directly from Funcom and get a digital copy with no involvement with EA at all. http://www.funcom.com/games/tsw

I personally love the game. It is not without issues but the content is amazing and I am enjoying the challenge of the game. Not to mention the setting.

As for Subscriptions: For the price of going to a movie with one snack or out to eat once a month I can swing it. I get why someone might not like ongoing payments but I am willing to do it. Way better return of entertainment hours per dollar then a movie.

Reyalsfeihc:
Simple solution to make a profitable MMO.

Make a Pokemon MMO like people have wanted for years.
Make it F2P with Microtransactions for aesthetic things or to help buy more actual in-game items (potions, pokeballs, etc.)
Charge $10 for each subsequent region released after launch.
Profit!

here is a cookie for start up capital! *gives cookie*

I don't understand why are ther allways EWIL ILLUMINATI... They historically were anti chrystian, anti dogmatic scientists who wanted nothing more than to tell masses the truth about the universe and start the rennesance... Illuminati wanted to illuminate(not ewil kinda slave - obidient way but earth turns around the sun way) the people of europe subjugated by Vatican... Although Illuminati sounds kinda ewil...

Sorry double post please delete it

LordFisheh:
Keep in mind it's not like it's bad because it's an mmo. The problem is that it goes with the same old kill ten bears do we have buffs up okay let's wipe ten more times oh sweet purples mechanics.

Have you played TSW by any change?
While there are some kill quests, those are by far the minority (killing mobs is largely incidental in most quests, and can be completely avoided in many).
I have plenty of complaints about TSW, but cookie cutter quests is not one of them.

And while there are buffs, and some are fairly good and sometimes even necessary, those buffs tend to have 90 second cooldowns, and last maybe 10 seconds.
The preparation is in making sure everyone has a good "deck" (set of abilities, both active and passive, from the skill wheel) that syncs well with others, no buffing before hand.
And while there is plenty of grinding for gear (atleast for those of us that have run out of other content we have not done already), do you have better idea of keeping the "locusts" busy while more content is being made?

I was originally looking forward to this game way back when it was announced. When I got the beta invite, I'd determined that the game was scheduled to release just before Guild Wars 2, which I was looking forward to even more. I played the beta. It crashed a lot. But more than that, the typical MMO combat mechanics really drug down the game. Otherwise the world was a fun setting.

I might still have played it, were it not an MMO with an upfront cost AND a subscription fee. I could tell from the GW2 and SW beta that the former would be the one I would be playing the most. So SW wasn't worth the investment. Had it been a single player title with appropriate single player combat, I'd have picked it up.

Sixcess:
You just need to use your enemy's paranoia against them - anyone who is so obviously a member of the Illuminati can't possibly be a member of the Illuminati.

Ah, the old Man Who Was Thursday gambit.

It'll backfire when you realise that all the other members are just deep undercover cops, pretending to be illuminati, who pretend to be idiots who aren't really illuminati but think they are. Heck, that isn't even the twist.

JK Chesterton was an odd man.

maninahat:

Sixcess:
You just need to use your enemy's paranoia against them - anyone who is so obviously a member of the Illuminati can't possibly be a member of the Illuminati.

Ah, the old Man Who Was Thursday gambit.

It'll backfire when you realise that all the other members are just deep undercover cops, pretending to be illuminati, who pretend to be idiots who aren't really illuminati but think they are.

JK Chesterton was an odd man.

One of my favourite novelists, and having the Thursday reference recognised has quite made my Sunday.

Sixcess:

maninahat:

Sixcess:
You just need to use your enemy's paranoia against them - anyone who is so obviously a member of the Illuminati can't possibly be a member of the Illuminati.

Ah, the old Man Who Was Thursday gambit.

It'll backfire when you realise that all the other members are just deep undercover cops, pretending to be illuminati, who pretend to be idiots who aren't really illuminati but think they are.

JK Chesterton was an odd man.

One of my favourite novelists, and having the Thursday reference recognised has quite made my Sunday.

You're welcome. The only thing more self-satisfying than spotting a literary reference, is other people knowing you've spotted a literary reference.

Sounds interesting but yeah I'm jumping on the if it's an MMO then I'm not going to bother. Though I do have a reason for that instead of just MMO hate because of what it is. I personally find MMO's initially are a pleasurable past time but then after a month or so I start getting thoughts along the lines of ok I have to play X hours a week to make sure I get my monthly subscriptions worth. That is when the experience sours becuase you realise it has stopped being a hobby and become a commitment and during those hours you think I really want to try playing game Y instead but with this subscription there aren't enough hours in the day with everything else I need to do.

Though on that note now may be the best time to try TOR and finish the storylines in a month then install it and play other things.

Okay, I've taken part in The Secret World's free weekend and to be honest, I was not impressed. Now, my problem was not that the game was an MMO. My problem was twofold. First, I saw little to no evidence that it was nearly as innovative as it was made out to be. The insinuation that you'd be given a goal of solving a mystery then not just led by the nose to do so, but would actually be doing genuine investigation on your own seems largely misleading. I found myself doing the atypical fetch quests and following guiding pointers on a minimap to get to the next designated point in a given mission. Combat was a bit more action-oriented, but largely bore a great resemblance to Champions Online. Character customization was kind of meh, with a fairly limited range of starting outfits and no way that I could see to customize the appearance of your weapons. Graphics and sound were good, but the connection for the game was God-awful. I couldn't play for more than 20 or so minutes without the game crashing. Dunno if that was a result of all the weekend players or not, but it didn't leave a favorable impression.

Worst of all was the way the factions were handled in the game. I was expecting to be an agent of a secret, mysterious organization trying to unravel the mysteries around sinister, otherworldly events going on around the globe while staying under the radar of the common, everyday population. Instead, all the factions seem to be "open secrets" with no attempts at subtlety whatsoever. You don't even really conceal your weapons, you walk around with swords, assault rifles and other such weapons in broad daylight. While its not uncommon for factions in games like these to have some flaws (which isn't bad, it helps them appear more real and human) these one are almost caricature-ish in their attitudes: The Templars are a bunch of pseudo-religious (they never specifically mention a religion by name, but the hints are dropped with all the gentleness of a brick on your head) zealots who will do anything as long as they can justify it as "the greater good". The Illuminati are a gang of power-hungry sociopaths who get an erection from controlling others. The Dragon is a oriental-based faction with a really weird sense of the need for change, apparently seeing the need to cause change for its own sake, no matter who might get hurt by it. All three of these groups have one thing in common; they're all about as subtle as a train wreck.

So overall, I found this to be a very lackluster game. Not because it was an MMO, but because it was a poorly executed one.

Mike Fang:
Okay, I've taken part in The Secret World's free weekend and to be honest, I was not impressed. Now, my problem was not that the game was an MMO. My problem was twofold. First, I saw little to no evidence that it was nearly as innovative as it was made out to be. The insinuation that you'd be given a goal of solving a mystery then not just led by the nose to do so, but would actually be doing genuine investigation on your own seems largely misleading.

You can tell what kind of mission you are going into based on the mission icon. I don't know how far you got, but the "running man" icon is for "action" missions that are largely standard MMO fare and tend to be combat oriented, for example the first mission from the deputy which was in essence "kill zombies, now kill more zombies, now kill some more zombies and a Draug". The yellow icon with what looks like a bomb are for "sabotage" missions which are less combat oriented (though not necessarily combatless) and always include at least one stealth/infiltration section -- for example the second mission from the sheriff that involves putting up the cameras or the mission from Danny involving his spyplane and the Orochi camp at the airfield). There's another type with a computer icon, these are "investigation" missions and are the kind being talked about regarding solving mysteries (they are also the only ones that aren't repeatable) -- the first (and by far easiest) ones most players typically see are "The Vision" and "The Kingsmouth Code" the former requiring a decent understanding of the local geography and the latter involving directional manhole covers, a hidden plaque, interpreting a clue to know where to go next, selecting the right painting in that location (with a short red herring if you pick wrong, but the same clue that led you there tells you which one is right if you think about it), a Bible reference, a basic understanding of town history, and pulling a door access code out of the clues so far as well. Issue #1 (the first content patch) added 7 new missions, 5 of which are these.

The main plot mission tends to be a mix of types, where you might need to investigate at one step, to get a clue to a place you have to dodge cameras and laser tripwires to get access to directions to an archive full of monsters. Also, I reasonably suspected that Beaumont is Loki fairly early (false prophecies he's set free from by the death of the white god, looking for "a fucking hammer", that kind of thing) and it only becomes more obvious later.

Mike Fang:
I found myself doing the atypical fetch quests and following guiding pointers on a minimap to get to the next designated point in a given mission. Combat was a bit more action-oriented, but largely bore a great resemblance to Champions Online.

It's more action-y than most MMOs, and probably the game's weakest point, until you get a feel for how much you can basically throw old MMO conventions out the window if you know what you are doing. For example, there exists an AR/Shotgun tanking build essentially to prove that it's entirely viable to tank without using traditional tanking abilities or tools (except Agitator, which is vital and in the Misc tree for tanking). That everyone applies and gains benefit from the same 4 core debuffs makes synergy between builds a lot more interesting as well.

Mike Fang:
Character customization was kind of meh, with a fairly limited range of starting outfits and no way that I could see to customize the appearance of your weapons.

The starting outfits are "meh" intentionally I think. There are a lot of alternative clothes available from the stores in London as well as the cash shop as well as many achievements unlocking clothes as well as completing any of the prebuilt "decks" as well as completing both inner ring trees for any given weapon. IOW, there's a lot of character customization, it's just not available up front (I personally don't wear clothing that's still available to the general public, wearing ARG, Secret War, and preorder gear).

As for weapons, if you've found a look you like, you can buy a "casting kit" from any of the token vendors (I personally think these are overpriced), which will turn that weapon into a mod for another weapon to change it's look. I plan on doing this with either my book with Cthulhu on the cover or my book with the blinking eye on the cover.

Mike Fang:
Graphics and sound were good, but the connection for the game was God-awful. I couldn't play for more than 20 or so minutes without the game crashing. Dunno if that was a result of all the weekend players or not, but it didn't leave a favorable impression.

Might be, but it also might be a compatibility problem with your rig, or perhaps your drivers. The game has literally never crashed on me unless I was doing something stupid (trying to mod part of the UI without really knowing what I was doing, for example -- side note waypoint tooltips only support a subset of HTML, only look in the default GUI folder for icon graphics, and throw a shit-fit when those graphics aren't present).

Mike Fang:
Worst of all was the way the factions were handled in the game. I was expecting to be an agent of a secret, mysterious organization trying to unravel the mysteries around sinister, otherworldly events going on around the globe while staying under the radar of the common, everyday population. Instead, all the factions seem to be "open secrets" with no attempts at subtlety whatsoever. You don't even really conceal your weapons, you walk around with swords, assault rifles and other such weapons in broad daylight.

On the one hand that's one the biggest immersion breakers. On the other hand, island that wishes it was fortunate enough to merely be caught in the writings of H.P. Lovecraft; enduring a zombie apocalypse while a literal portal to Hell opened at the motel up the road (side note: Final boss of the first instance is basically Cthulhu, and that portal to Hell is the entrance to the second dungeon, Hell Raised). They're not asking too many questions to the guy with the assault rifle who's throwing fireballs -- it's not the worst thing they've seen *today*.

Mike Fang:
While its not uncommon for factions in games like these to have some flaws (which isn't bad, it helps them appear more real and human) these one are almost caricature-ish in their attitudes: The Templars are a bunch of pseudo-religious (they never specifically mention a religion by name, but the hints are dropped with all the gentleness of a brick on your head) zealots who will do anything as long as they can justify it as "the greater good". The Illuminati are a gang of power-hungry sociopaths who get an erection from controlling others. The Dragon is a oriental-based faction with a really weird sense of the need for change, apparently seeing the need to cause change for its own sake, no matter who might get hurt by it. All three of these groups have one thing in common; they're all about as subtle as a train wreck.

The Dragon are probably the most subtle of the three. They're typically portrayed as setting the Illuminati against the Templar and sneaking out with what they want while no one is looking. They're not about change for it's own sake -- not at all. They're about understanding and controlling Chaos, being able to see the trees for the forest, and where, in what form, and in what quantity influence needs be applied to reach their ends (to provide an example, they essentially created an informant from the inside by performing subtle manipulations on his life before he joined to build the kind of psyche that would want to turn traitor for the Dragon if given the right influence at the right time). They actually sound disappointed when Beaumont doesn't kill you in the archives, because they expected him to reduce you to your component atoms. Not too disappointed, though, because it means they have more data for their models, and you remain a useful agent, though your continued existence requires them to recalculate their predictions.

Guessing you played Illuminati? Because Templars don't seem quite as nutso from the inside (though still pretty bad), and the Dragon only makes any sense if you are playing one.

Schadrach:

You can tell what kind of mission you are going into based on the mission icon. I don't know how far you got, but the "running man" icon is for "action" missions that are largely standard MMO fare and tend to be combat oriented, for example the first mission from the deputy which was in essence "kill zombies, now kill more zombies, now kill some more zombies and a Draug". The yellow icon with what looks like a bomb are for "sabotage" missions which are less combat oriented (though not necessarily combatless) and always include at least one stealth/infiltration section -- for example the second mission from the sheriff that involves putting up the cameras or the mission from Danny involving his spyplane and the Orochi camp at the airfield). There's another type with a computer icon, these are "investigation" missions and are the kind being talked about regarding solving mysteries (they are also the only ones that aren't repeatable) -- the first (and by far easiest) ones most players typically see are "The Vision" and "The Kingsmouth Code" the former requiring a decent understanding of the local geography and the latter involving directional manhole covers, a hidden plaque, interpreting a clue to know where to go next, selecting the right painting in that location (with a short red herring if you pick wrong, but the same clue that led you there tells you which one is right if you think about it), a Bible reference, a basic understanding of town history, and pulling a door access code out of the clues so far as well. Issue #1 (the first content patch) added 7 new missions, 5 of which are these.

The main plot mission tends to be a mix of types, where you might need to investigate at one step, to get a clue to a place you have to dodge cameras and laser tripwires to get access to directions to an archive full of monsters. Also, I reasonably suspected that Beaumont is Loki fairly early (false prophecies he's set free from by the death of the white god, looking for "a fucking hammer", that kind of thing) and it only becomes more obvious later.

It's more action-y than most MMOs, and probably the game's weakest point, until you get a feel for how much you can basically throw old MMO conventions out the window if you know what you are doing. For example, there exists an AR/Shotgun tanking build essentially to prove that it's entirely viable to tank without using traditional tanking abilities or tools (except Agitator, which is vital and in the Misc tree for tanking). That everyone applies and gains benefit from the same 4 core debuffs makes synergy between builds a lot more interesting as well.

The starting outfits are "meh" intentionally I think. There are a lot of alternative clothes available from the stores in London as well as the cash shop as well as many achievements unlocking clothes as well as completing any of the prebuilt "decks" as well as completing both inner ring trees for any given weapon. IOW, there's a lot of character customization, it's just not available up front (I personally don't wear clothing that's still available to the general public, wearing ARG, Secret War, and preorder gear).

As for weapons, if you've found a look you like, you can buy a "casting kit" from any of the token vendors (I personally think these are overpriced), which will turn that weapon into a mod for another weapon to change it's look. I plan on doing this with either my book with Cthulhu on the cover or my book with the blinking eye on the cover.

Might be, but it also might be a compatibility problem with your rig, or perhaps your drivers. The game has literally never crashed on me unless I was doing something stupid (trying to mod part of the UI without really knowing what I was doing, for example -- side note waypoint tooltips only support a subset of HTML, only look in the default GUI folder for icon graphics, and throw a shit-fit when those graphics aren't present).

On the one hand that's one the biggest immersion breakers. On the other hand, island that wishes it was fortunate enough to merely be caught in the writings of H.P. Lovecraft; enduring a zombie apocalypse while a literal portal to Hell opened at the motel up the road (side note: Final boss of the first instance is basically Cthulhu, and that portal to Hell is the entrance to the second dungeon, Hell Raised). They're not asking too many questions to the guy with the assault rifle who's throwing fireballs -- it's not the worst thing they've seen *today*.

The Dragon are probably the most subtle of the three. They're typically portrayed as setting the Illuminati against the Templar and sneaking out with what they want while no one is looking. They're not about change for it's own sake -- not at all. They're about understanding and controlling Chaos, being able to see the trees for the forest, and where, in what form, and in what quantity influence needs be applied to reach their ends (to provide an example, they essentially created an informant from the inside by performing subtle manipulations on his life before he joined to build the kind of psyche that would want to turn traitor for the Dragon if given the right influence at the right time). They actually sound disappointed when Beaumont doesn't kill you in the archives, because they expected him to reduce you to your component atoms. Not too disappointed, though, because it means they have more data for their models, and you remain a useful agent, though your continued existence requires them to recalculate their predictions.

Guessing you played Illuminati? Because Templars don't seem quite as nutso from the inside (though still pretty bad), and the Dragon only makes any sense if you are playing one.

I'm not prone to saying things like this but, geeze, that's one long-@$$ way of basically saying "I think you're wrong, this game is much better than you think it is, you just didn't do it right or long enough."

First off, no I didn't play Illuminati, I played the Templars. And as a Roman Catholic, I thought they were decidedly heavy handed, religious zealots from their attitude of doing whatever it takes to get the job done, no questions asked, anything is justifiable when its for "The Greater Good."

Your description of The Dragon doesn't soften my opinion of them in the slightest, they still sound like a bunch of deranged lunatics who think they can trap a tornado in a bottle and don't care who gets hurt along the way.

The missions, yes, I'll concede I didn't get to play many. There did appear to be some that would allow for some investigation, but I'd say there needs to be more of those, with the combat being something you do along the way for most of them. Maybe making boss fights could be a direct part of the missions, but I think there were too many standard MMO-type missions.

I did have a feeling not everything would be unlocked appearance-wise from the start. On the other hand, having a cash shop in a game when you're already charging a subscription seems unabashedly greedy. You're already getting $15/mo. from people, are you REALLY going to try and squeeze more out of them?

Yes, its true when there are inter-dimensional abominations invading, one tends not to question why someone's carrying a loaded shot gun around. However, when you're just walking down an average town or city street and there's nothing out of the ordinary going on, seems a bit out of place.

It could be there is a compatibility problem with my computer; it is a few years old, and I have been thinking about an upgrade. On the other hand, I've been able to play games like Max Payne 3, Fallout New Vegas, Payday: The Heist, and other, relatively recent titles with minimum difficulty. So I don't quite see why this particular one would give me such an issue.

So yeah, maybe this game was all that and a bag of chips to you, but to me, I wasn't that impressed to start with. I'll admit I was still curious enough to think further play might reveal things start to open up further in, but definitely not enough to make me want to pay a subscription for it.

Noxogz:

1337mokro:
MMO. Sounds good on paper. Only worked Once.

Well if we're talking about subscription based MMOs they've technically worked 3 times, once with Ultima Online, twice with EverQuest and thrice with World of Warcraft.

If we're talking about the F2P market, as Quiotu said there's plenty of MMOs that have been WAY more successful once they went F2P than when they had a subscription.

There's also FFXI. you know, that one that came before XIV, and is actually pretty decent, and still has people playing AND paying for it?

Mike Fang:
The missions, yes, I'll concede I didn't get to play many. There did appear to be some that would allow for some investigation, but I'd say there needs to be more of those, with the combat being something you do along the way for most of them. Maybe making boss fights could be a direct part of the missions, but I think there were too many standard MMO-type missions.

This is the single most common complaint, actually. The investigation missions are some of the best in the game, but they're nonrepeatable (mostly because they are trivial once you've figured them out, and they have some of the largest rewards).

As for boss fights in missions, they do that. Quite a lot actually, just not at the very beginning. Hell, there's a mission at the amusement park in Savage Coast that involves fighting a final boss that resembles an instance boss with his health and damage scaled down (including a PBAoE, an all but PBAoE that continues until you get out of it, and an instakill AoE that has to be LoS'd. The last fight of "Rogue Agent" is pretty hairy too.

Funcom has made a commitment to monthly content updates and to there being at least some investigations in every content update (5 of the 7 new missions in the July update were investigation, one sabotage, one action).

Side missions (the ones from items scattered throughout the world) tend to be either straightforward fetch quests or a short kill quest, but their not really the core content -- they exist primarily to point you towards more "real" quests, sort of a lube to keep the game flow smooth. The goal being that when you complete a quest, there should be a quest within 50m (even if it's just one that points you at a questgiver [or even one of several, as Neither Snow Nor Rain Nor Zombies can]), during beta they told us to report it as a bug if there wasn't.

For example, when you complete "The Vision", you are on a bridge, just off one end of the bridge is a wrecked police car with a quest ("Badge of Honor"). The quest involves following a trail, fending off at least one mob, finding a body, and returning his police badge to the sheriff so that she knows the fate of her officer. It's short, simple, and pointed you back at a questgiver.

Mike Fang:
I did have a feeling not everything would be unlocked appearance-wise from the start. On the other hand, having a cash shop in a game when you're already charging a subscription seems unabashedly greedy. You're already getting $15/mo. from people, are you REALLY going to try and squeeze more out of them?

Yeah, a lot of people complain about the cash shop, just being offended by the presence of it mostly. Nothing in the cash shop has any influence on game play in any fashion, being purely cosmetic. I don't see it as a big deal personally only because there's a pretty huge variety of clothing available in the in game store (Pangaea, I think it's called) and still more handed out from, you know, doing missions, hunting rare spawns, collecting lore, earning achievements and the like. Supposedly they also plan on adding new clothes to the cash shop and retiring the older cash shop clothes to the in game store over time. I might eb a bad judge on this though since I personally aren't wearing anything that is still available to players (ARG, Secret War, and preorder clothes for me).

My personal biggest complaint about clothes in game is that too many things are multislot and need to be pulled apart into their constituent parts so more outfit options exist.

Mike Fang:
Yes, its true when there are inter-dimensional abominations invading, one tends not to question why someone's carrying a loaded shot gun around. However, when you're just walking down an average town or city street and there's nothing out of the ordinary going on, seems a bit out of place.

Again, common complaint (but not nearly as common as the prior two). At the same time it's individual neighborhoods where the societies have exceptional influence, you might just be part of the local gang/mob/yakuza problem (unless you use magic, in which case you look mostly nonthreatening).

Mike Fang:
It could be there is a compatibility problem with my computer; it is a few years old, and I have been thinking about an upgrade. On the other hand, I've been able to play games like Max Payne 3, Fallout New Vegas, Payday: The Heist, and other, relatively recent titles with minimum difficulty. So I don't quite see why this particular one would give me such an issue.

Crash issues (when compatibility related) aren't typically "my computer isn't good enough", but rather "some piece of my hardware running a specific driver version, or even at times a specific combination thereof does something unexpected that the game can't figure out how to respond to." To give an example, back in Everquest I had graphic glitches for most of the first six months of the game. By "glitches" I mean that the textures would flip out and it would resemble my poor halfling being on acid. This only happened if you were using certain specific combinations of 3d accelerator and video card, and was specific to Everquest.

Mike Fang:
So yeah, maybe this game was all that and a bag of chips to you, but to me, I wasn't that impressed to start with. I'll admit I was still curious enough to think further play might reveal things start to open up further in, but definitely not enough to make me want to pay a subscription for it.

I would have probably felt the same way after a weekend, but I was in both the closed beta and the early access weekends.

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