Escapist Podcast: Is Photorealism Needed for Gaming to Advance?

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Slycne:

ReiverCorrupter:
Yes it is. These guys are way too focused on emotional involvement.

Because that's what the discussion is about...

Listen to the podcast again or read the statements 2K made - http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/118839-2K-New-Genres-Impossible-Without-Photorealism. The very target of the discussion is the emotional connection and development of new 'emotional' genres. You're kind of arguing against a position we are not taking.

I'm aware of all that. Emotional involvement is frankly rather unimportant in the grand scheme of game development. While some games are supposed to emotionally engage the audience, the best selling games seem to just be games, i.e. CoD, Mario, etc. You can talk about the medium growing as an artform or whatever, but that's all secondary to technological progress. Photorealism is an incredibly important barrier from the standpoint of game design in general and technological constraints.

There's a difference between not getting what someone's saying and deliberately ignoring what they said in order to make a more important point. I was doing the latter, though I can hardly blame you for the confusion.

The book is the Twits by Roald Dahl!
And then he convinces her that the only solution to her shrinking is to stretch her out with hundreds of baloons!

I think the quote was misconstructed as "we" won't care about games until they are photorealistic, while it was intended to talk about expanding the market. "We" might love abstract games until our face is blue, but that won't magically make them more accepted.

All the counterexamples about non-photorealistic emotional things are either tiny niches, or seen as childish.

There is western animation for children, and anime for otaku.
Garfield Comic strips in newspapers, and Superhero comics for nerds.
Cartoonish party games for casuals, and arthouse indie games for hardcore gamers.

Paintings themselves are made by and for conisseours, while the rest of us couldn't tell a Van Gogh from a Hitler. As soon as we invented photography, ordinary people started to use that everywhere from portraits to landscapes, simply becase photorealistic is seen as superior.

So yes, I could actually agree with him, that if gaming wants to be recognized in the mainstream as an art form, it needs photorealistic dramas, romances, epics, and mysteries, not even more 2D platformers that look like expressionist paintings.

Just pointing this out Susan, when you were saying that Japanese doesn't have emotional inflection. That's not quite right. Actually Japanese is a bit of an anomaly among asian languages in that the meaning of words and phrases doesn't change with tonal variation.
There are a few cases, like: HA-shi = chop sticks, but ha-SHI = bridge. But beyond a few of those object nouns, inflection doesn't change a word's meaning in speech.
I used to think the same, that it was like Chinese or something. But once i started learning, i was surprised by how much how do rely on tone just like us. The tones are different of course, but yeah, Japanese is actually very tonal. Not as much as english granted, but definately compared to other asian languages.

Photorealism is a myth, computers will never be able to render at high enough quality to actually fool the eye. They might as well say that videogames won't advance until they can be plugged directly into the brain.

Raioken18:
I love your podcasts but first...

Don't comment on something if you don't fully understand it. The whole bit about localisation and Naruto, it's one of the top anime at the moment and making a comparison and just saying, it's not like it's Pokemon... nothing is like Pokemon, that's like saying {insert game here} isn't Ocarina of Time. The point of Naruto having annoying sayings and a scratchy voice is that you basically start off hating him, he's a whiney twerp, but as the series goes on you are able to see this character persevere and develop into someone who has suffered loss but never gives up. If you do want to compare that to Pokemon... Pokemon is a static cartoon, the characters never develop beyond the token badges they collect, they hardly ever realize it's team rocket before the disguises come off and usually it's like they take off a pair of glasses. It's cute and for younger children who want to see the hero win each day before they go to school, Naruto isn't that sort of a cartoon on the surface it's bright and colourful but it is also pretty dark and gritty.

I had to chuckle a bit when I saw how you opened this comment. I'm sure if you listen to my thoughts again, you'll realize that I was only comparing Naruto to Pokemon in the sense of US adoption, not quality. I am a huge fan of Naruto (and feel apathetic about Pokemon at best). And as someone who has seen the series multiple times, yes, I of course understand the characters' progression from annoying to likable. That's the whole point. So, when I say it's annoying that he says that word consistently, by your own description, that's correct.

Rassmusseum:
About the "Believe it!" (Dattebayo)thing, they stopped doing that past the first season of the anime I think. It was just omitted entirely later on since everyone was super annoyed hearing it all the time.

Oh, really? Thank goodness. I watched all of three episodes in English before I checked out completely, but I've always felt a bit bad for people whose only exposure to the show is the Americanized version.

itchcrotch:
Just pointing this out Susan, when you were saying that Japanese doesn't have emotional inflection. That's not quite right. Actually Japanese is a bit of an anomaly among asian languages in that the meaning of words and phrases doesn't change with tonal variation.
There are a few cases, like: HA-shi = chop sticks, but ha-SHI = bridge. But beyond a few of those object nouns, inflection doesn't change a word's meaning in speech.
I used to think the same, that it was like Chinese or something. But once i started learning, i was surprised by how much how do rely on tone just like us. The tones are different of course, but yeah, Japanese is actually very tonal. Not as much as english granted, but definately compared to other asian languages.

Oh, really? Ok, my mistake, then. I learned just the barest amount of Japanese, and I think it was "house" and "no" were the same word, just inflected differently, and that's when I knew it was going to be way over my head. Thanks for the correction!

What was the music playing during the podcast? I liked it!

It would be cool to play but completely unnecessary for a good game and requires more time and resources than just having a decent art style that's not too graphics heavy but with some cool effects and just rolling with it

What's his face is wrong
Games are more like pixarr films than anything else
Death to all paper pushing accountants that interfere with artistic expression despite the fact that they are accountants and not artists
Games industry is lagging 5-10 years behind what games currently require
Bet you the accountants were really surprised when duke nukem forever failed because it had all the things people wanted back when they were dimly aware that video games existed

Wasn't the serial killer's dog from The Cell a white german shepard?


My neighbor's dogs always bark like crazy when I walk up, she says they're friendly, but as someone who's been bitten, I'm still leery.

What timing, I checked to see what my brother was watching in the other room, and it's Repo Man. I walked in on the part where he's trying to take that old lady's car.

ritchards:
What was the music playing during the podcast? I liked it!

Sort of. House is "ie", no is "iie". it's a longer 'i', that's a whooole other can of worms. but when you think about, english is like that too. There are bundles of words who's vowls need to be drawn on, and we pronounced them quickly people would look at us like "why are you talking like that?"
It's weird how learning a new language makes you more aware of your own.

GamerLuck:
So... Can we get a picture of susans dog? we send er cute things all the time, she should post her cute dog :D

Behold! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_iY4C5a09c

Space muffins shirt? Where is my cake must be cake to be cake shirt?

Susan Arendt:

GamerLuck:
So... Can we get a picture of susans dog? we send er cute things all the time, she should post her cute dog :D

Behold! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_iY4C5a09c

YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

NO!

Gameplay > Graphics

In other words, according to 2K, many Disney movies don't invoke real emotion? (or at least, are incapable of doing so?)

ritchards:
What was the music playing during the podcast? I liked it!

Oops, I forgot to list it in the description but it's http://ocremix.org/remix/OCR02318/.

I have a friend who is a devoted Vincent Price fan, so due to her anger I've never seen the Paris Hilton remake of House of Wax. :)

Photo-realism for the advancement of gaming? I'm sorry but Nintendo would have to disagree. Almost literally; there isn't a single game exclusive to a Nintendo Console that would need it. Not just Nintendo obviously but I couldn't think of a better example of not a single franchise but a single console's worth of franchises that could potentially suffer from photo-realism. Photo Realism can definitely bring new things to the table but, it's far from necessary.

You know what, there is a better set of examples than Nintendo: Tetris, Donkey Kong Arcade, Pac-Man and, Galaga. All of these games so about as simple as adding 2 to 2 and have always been. Despite little to no change, they've survived throughout the years and are widely available to this day.

image

I don't know what the Hell this is supposed to be but, this is how it was meant to be.

Y'know....for anyone who thinks that realistic graphics are what should make a game...they clearly have not seen the true wonder that is...

In all seriousness, 2k is shooting itself in the foot with this proclamation. Then again, all the "big boy" video game companies make stupid comments like this.

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