Jimquisition: Photorealistic Sociopathy

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Redd the Sock:
Anyone that says you need photorealistic graphics for empotional investment, I have two words for you:

Aerith Gainsbourough

Came here to say this. We're done here.

irmasterlol:
That seems like something that would have to fail miserably several times before anyone managed to pull it off. I'm certainly not here to sing the praises of the interactive movie crowd, the best stories merge seamlessly with the gameplay etc. etc.

Video games using a visual medium didn't start out very well either, if you remember, and it wasn't the graphics' fault; it was because what was being done hadn't been tried and true yet. It took a few years for video games that thrilled and engrossed people to really come along, and even a lot of those don't stand up so well today because what they started has since been improved in some way or another.

irmasterlol:
I concede your point, but only in theory. I'm struggling to imagine a context in which it would actually be possible, but I guess that's why I'm not an innovative game designer pushing the limits of the medium.

I'm not saying I am either, but the thing that makes people interesting is that we can make that which was not there before; we can make the unfeasible feasible, in the right hands. Video games themselves are an example of that, and as I've said before, we're wasting their potential, and by extension our own, by trying to make them emulate life.

well Crytek is on my list of 'devs that don't know how to do they're jobs' now.

fucking morons ....

photo realism can help, but only if the story is there to support it, it will not, and cannot achieve any connection with the target audience if the characters and story are all crap.

case in point, Vindictus, the game it self looks very good, but you get all the story bits from

riveting no? well, yes actually, the writing of the game is actually good enough that i actually cared, and subsequently felt rage and sadness when characters i liked died (in a fully voiced cut-scene, they aren't that cheap) or, in one characters case, inspired raw hatred.

no, i don't get to kill the son of a bitch

I remember nothing of Crysis except thinking "well, it looks nice." At one point, there might have been an alien ship, but don't hold me to that. I couldn't sit through an hour of L.A.Noire, because it's uncanny valley effect hit me harder than anything else ever has, and it creeped me the fuck out. Photorealism does nothing if you don't have anything worth showing, and even fails if it's just shy of it. I'll take stylized any day, since it provides something extremely memorable.

I think someone said it before on this forum; look at the body language and facial animations possible in the Source engine, how old is the Source engine?
Jeez even LA Noire is, what, 2 or three years old (and therefore outdated technology, apparently), and I don't think it's really necessary to advance beyond that in terms of attempted photorealism.

Some of the statements from developers sound like they're standing in front of an unlocked door, and waiting for the development of perfect animatronics in order to open it.

so THAT'S what was exactly said. What a stupid notion although it does make me realize that there are some standard DS games that aren't Pokemon I should pick up within the next couple of weeks. As I've said before in other threads Final Fantasy 4, 6, 7 and, 9 have brought on some pretty big emotions in me and I didn't even really care about plot/characters in games before Metal Gear Solid (that one game that looks like it was made using paper-craft you may have heard of). Whereas for modern games like Modern Warfare I couldn't even tell you the name of the protagonist or why I should care. When I first got to the nuke scene it was a big deal but it was marred by fact that my player character was just a nameless, faceless drone who I neither knew or cared about. If I knew he had a Terra Master card collection missing only one card before the bomb detonated, I would have cared that he ended up microwaved from the inside out.

Wow... do some devs STILL believe this crap? I know devs are just people to so their fully entitled to their own oppinions but hasn't EVERY bloody gaming website on the web basically been calling bollox on this chain of thought? Gah I thought this argument was over but I guess that was just silly of me.

Jandau:
Well, now we know how Jim sounds while having sex. God help us all...

It was just so hot, wasn't it. No one else will ever be able to match the powers of the sex god that is Jim Sterling.

Sseth:
I remember back when the entire escapist thought Jim was too full of himself and everyone wanted the show cancelled when he first started making these videos. Now I rarely see anything but praise for the Jimquisition.

Eat it, disbelievers. I love this show. Great episode.

The first few episodes were a bit rough around the edges. I can see why a few people might have been turned off (a lot of people lack vision). I liked them anyway and I'm glad I stuck it out. His videos are now some of my favorite webisodes out there.

This is why most of my favorite games have had stylistic cartoony type graphics that weren't in any way realistic. I'm guessing these guys (the Crytek and 2k guy) have much the same attitude as James Cameron who waited 15+ years to make Avatar because the tech was ready yet instead of making the best use of the resources he had at the time.

DVS BSTrD:
Have no God before rendering, for it is a jealous God.

^THIS Is why the new console generation worries me.

Also this is why we can't have nice things.

They've been digging in that hole this whole Generation Jim.

When this generation began my wish was for a Burnout game that had bigger crash junctions. Sure maybe I was wishing small but I was playing a lot of Burnout Revenge at the time.
I didn't need them to look more realistic, what I wanted was more complicated intersections with more cars doing more things. Then they came out with a Burnout game for this generation and while it looked more slick, it didn't have any sort of crash junctions at all.
I feel that's kind of been the picture of the industry for this generation: using all the extra processing power to try and make things look more "realistic" when they should be making these virtual worlds feel more realistic.

This video helps to illustrate the importance of indie developers. A place in the industry where there is true heart in the work.

Bastion made me cry.
Modern Warfare 2 didn't. I was gutted that Ghost died, but only because he had that bad-arse balaclava and we'd never see it again.

Mass Effect 3 made me very emotional too but that was Bioware and the graphics were always rather cartoony really.

Well, text adventure were the beginning of the videogames, if I am not mistaken, and they exist and engage people even today, so what are we talking about?

As someone else said before, this is about money, and trying to pull in a crowd as large as possible, meaning "casual" gamers. I don't know if they are attracted by shiny things, but the industry seems to think so, so that's what they'll chase.

Photorealism has nothing to do with evoking emotions, or even simply making a good game. Design is what is important in the graphical department of game, and nowadays we have enough power to run basically all a designer might need (or want) to make a good game.

DVS BSTrD:
Have no God before rendering, for it is a jealous God.

^THIS Is why the new console generation worries me.

Honour thy graphics card and processor is the one that worries me.
OT: Silly Jim. You want substance? *shakes head* Where did I go wrong?

scw55:
Bastion made me cry.

Speaking of making em cry, I remember my first major emotial response was to the end of Actraiser. A game that had blocky little dudes who made Minecraft look high end. Is it the deepest emotional reaction I've eve rhad? No, but there were a couple touching moments in the game.

Granted, this was a game pushing "Mode Seven" back when it was serious business, but that's not why it was endearing. It's also not why I still fondly remember it, even after playing games like Modern Warfare.

gamejunkiey69:
Playing a game just for it's graphics is like watching porn for it's plot.

Nicolaus99:
"I think no religious statement has any place in something that isn't a church or a religious topic." - Jim Sterling

Golly gee Jim. Maybe you should go and try to do some more of that actual Journalism you were talking about earlier. Do you even know where Dan Cathy made his statement concerning his personal opinion on gay marriage? Of course not. You're too busy stroking your outrage in defense of your liberal opinions. Here, I've done it for you since you were too busy to bother:

http://www.bpnews.net/BPnews.asp?ID=38271

Here, I'll even reference some of your fellow liberals:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/17/dan-cathy-chick-fil-a-president-anti-gay_n_1680984.html

He said it in an interview with "The Baptist Press: News With A Christian Perspective". A relevant place for one to speak his mind on religious opinion? Have some crow to go with that side fat you'll be scooping out and eating. Maybe you can open an episode with you stuffing some Chick Fil A into your maw.

A) The last point I made was said entirely to facilitate the "Thank God for me" joke. It's a fairly bog-standard technique called Hypocritical Humor.

B) I'm a centrist.

C) Fuck Chick-Fil-A in its arse with my big gay penis.

Dammit, I was perfectly ready to thank god for you and then you go and do that chick-fil-a crap AGAIN...

First of all Jim, 'i support traditional marriage' is a political opinion, not a religious one.

Second of all, you should at LEAST hate the food served somewhere before you cut out your own fat over it >.>

Oh lord, Jim's sex noises are going to haunt me in my sleep.

I agree with both of your points, but I do kind of see where Crytek is coming from. I felt that the Xbox was the reason why Crysis 2 wasn't anywhere near as good as Crysis 1 and so I was glade that they are focusing on PC's instead. I remember you saying in one of your previous videos that consoles are just crappy PC's and I agree with that too and I even think they Crytek might as well.

I really enjoy PC shooters such as Crysis but I feel that console hold them back, but it's not due to lacking in graphical power, it's due to the games being dumped down for the console crowed.

...how the hell could anyone think "It tastes like hating gay people and shit!" supports Chick-fil-A-Holes?

As for graphics, I'm glad to see you're not an elitist prick who thinks graphics are completely insignificant, but you do feel damn good writing can make up for sub-par graphics. Too many gamers take a black-and-white stance. It's nice to see you know a thing or two about middle ground.

Yeah, because, you know, FFVI wasn't an emotional game at all.

Great episode, Jim.

Disagree about ff13 but overall I agree with whats been said.

templar1138a:
...how the hell could anyone think "It tastes like hating gay people and shit!" supports Chick-fil-A-Holes?

As for graphics, I'm glad to see you're not an elitist prick who thinks graphics are completely insignificant, but you do feel damn good writing can make up for sub-par graphics. Too many gamers take a black-and-white stance. It's nice to see you know a thing or two about middle ground.

I guess some people find hating "gay people" so delicious that it overshadows even shit... And that might be part of what makes me hate humanity, just maybe.

It is fairly simple for me
1.Story
2.Gameplay
3.Visual style
4.Animations
5.Controls
6.Graphics

I agree and disagree with Jim at the same time. While I 98% agree that developers need to focus more on art direction instead of technology, the other 2% disagrees, because I've been playing The Secret World the entire weekend (AMAZING game) and that game has some serious technology behind it, backed up with an amazing and stellar art direction.

That game has both great technology and amazing art direction, it has both colorful and gritty scenarios, but the grittiness only enhances the mood Funcom was trying to convey and seriously, that game just oozes atmosphere wherever you turn around.

I'm all up for great technology, but only if it's backed up by great art direction.

C'mon Jim it's pronounced "Col-bear Repore". The T's are silent. Take a listen.

Back on topic though, yeah I teared up too my first time playing FF VI when I reached the opera scene.

And what, no shout out to WALL-E or To the Moon?

Nicolaus99:
"I think no religious statement has any place in something that isn't a church or a religious topic." - Jim Sterling

Golly gee Jim. Maybe you should go and try to do some more of that actual Journalism you were talking about earlier. Do you even know where Dan Cathy made his statement concerning his personal opinion on gay marriage? Of course not. You're too busy stroking your outrage in defense of your liberal opinions.

Hey, I hate the so-called "liberals" as much as the average sane person, but I think his point was that Chick-Fil-A isn't a damned church and people shouldn't give a fuck about the brand just because of his president.

We get it, Jim thinks that the food is disgusting. Maybe I am inclined to defend Jim but I think that he meant that we shouldn't let religious debates sink into our lives.

Rellik San:
"Says the man who shelled out 50 for a 6 hour wank fantasy because he's too scared to join the real army..."

I don't like your opinion.

Graphics serve to do 1 thing, enhance the story by allowing better representation of what the developer had in mind when creating the game. If there's nothing worthwhile to represent, then it's all a waste.

captcha: "respect me"
answer: no, fuck you.

From the title I thought this would be about violence in realistic games and Jim was going to discuss morality of this issue since now games are becoming really realistic, imagine a Postal 2 with crisis graphics...

Anyway, everyone already knows that better graphics doesn't mean better experience, but finally Jim approached this issue on a new manner, the emotion.

Jim that just means more chicken for me. Seriously if everyone boycotted companies they disagreed with nobody would be buying anything.

Also I fully agree with your points about photorealism, every game in the metal gear solid series made me cry at some point. They had some of the most emotional moments of any game series and I've never even played MGS4. Just the ones on xbox or PS2 and that was far from photorealistic.

blackrave:
It is fairly simple for me
1.Story
2.Gameplay
3.Visual style
4.Animations
5.Controls
6.Graphics

Putting story over gameplay? Why even play games? Just grab a book or watch a movie since you must love cutscenes.

Yes, I don't get how someone can put story over gameplay, specially considering that story in games mostly suck.

Also, you missed sound and music, pretty important too.

I'm going to disagree with you on one thing, Jim. A religious statement has a place anywhere and everywhere regardless of whether anyone agrees with it or believes in it, including the speaker him/herself. As much as it grates on my nerves more than anything to have someone try to win an argument against me by throwing an "insert religious text here" quote at me and think that it trumps all other arguments because you can't prove a religious statement or opinion as being false.... I would rather have the freedom to do the same than suppress anyone's right to say otherwise. I believe Chick-fil-A has a right to express such an opinion even if doing so is a very very stupid thing to do indeed.

What I find somewhat ironic, that none of these big companies seem to realize, is a lot of their "modern games" fail to reach the emotional heights of their older, outdated, less-graphically impressive games.

Final Fantasy IV and VI made me feel far more emotion towards its characters than FFXII or FFXIII.

Silent Hill 1 & 2 have stories and emotional characters far beyond SH: Homecoming and Downpour.

In fact, some of the most "emotional" games I've played have very unrealistic graphics. ICO, Okami, Alice: Madness Returns, Killer7, Xenoblade, Chrono Trigger/Cross, Limbo...

2K is WRONG to assume that graphics equate emotion. We could still be using SNES-era graphics and creating stories that resonate with characters you empathize with. Technology is a poor man's tool of expression. The real meat of creativity and talent lies in everything BUT the technology; the art direction, the writing, the story pacing, the music. Technology is merely the paint.

While some people prefer oil paint over watercolor, or pastels over pencil sketches, the true talent lies, not in the material used, but in the way it is used. And I've seen some gorgeous pencil sketches in my day.

Off-topic: I have no problem being bisexual and supporting Chick-Fil-A. If I was going to boycott everything I don't agree with, I'd never shop at Wal-mart, never watch a film by Roman Polanski, never play Dragon Quest, never read H.G. Wells, and never listen to 90% of available music. Do what you like, and if they support a cause you disagree with, well, gosh, deal with the fact they don't share your opinion. That's just life.

Anoni Mus:

blackrave:
It is fairly simple for me
1.Story
2.Gameplay
3.Visual style
4.Animations
5.Controls
6.Graphics

Putting story over gameplay? Why even play games? Just grab a book or watch a movie since you must love cutscenes.

Yes, I don't get how someone can put story over gameplay, specially considering that story in games mostly suck.

Also, you missed sound and music, pretty important too.

I follow Yathzee's stament of 'Gameplay drives the car while story navigates and picks the radio station' damn accurate, too bad so many games manage to get it wrong

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