Jimquisition: Photorealistic Sociopathy

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cpt blackamar:
pretty good episode, but I just have to say this just because.

Hatfilms Hatfilms Hatfilms oh my god Hatfilms were in this.

Oh my god me too oh my god oh my god Hatfilms

It seems that a lot of the whining and complaining about what's wrong with the gaming industry is confined almost exclusively to the mainstream, triple-A content. This is not to say that there aren't problems with games outside that regime, but it always seems to sound like that particular regime has the highest concentration of offenses. Maybe it's time to move away from or at least de-emphasize triple-A gaming. Seriously, if all we ever do is bitch about it, then maybe it's just not worth bothering with anymore.

TitanAura:
I'm going to disagree with you on one thing, Jim. A religious statement has a place anywhere and everywhere regardless of whether anyone agrees with it or believes in it, including the speaker him/herself. As much as it grates on my nerves more than anything to have someone try to win an argument against me by throwing an "insert religious text here" quote at me and think that it trumps all other arguments because you can't prove a religious statement or opinion as being false.... I would rather have the freedom to do the same than suppress anyone's right to say otherwise. I believe Chick-fil-A has a right to express such an opinion even if doing so is a very very stupid thing to do indeed.

I believe he means Religious Statements have no place or value outside any place of worship or theological discussion. Nor should religion influence political opinions or issues because really, we don't live in the Middle Ages and it really shouldn't matter.

Casual Shinji:
Super-realistic graphics tend to convey the complete opposite to an emotional connection from me. Heavy Rain was as uncanny valley as you can get, and L.A. Noire reached a whole nother level where everyone looked like real people wearing rubber man suits and hats.

Well, that just means we're almost there right? There's got to be an uncanny valley before we hit "true" photo-realism, there's got to be a night before the day.

But I generally agree that graphics have absolutely NOTHING to do with conveying emotions, the human brain is an amazing device that can "fill in" the missing visuals with our raw power of imagination to help convey the emotions. As Jim said, books are the perfect example. I've read some absolutely memorable pieces of writing that have driven me to tears (or inversely, punch the air in excitement/joy). The human mind can simply take WORDS and translate them into faces, emotions, etc that can tug at our hearts.

Hell, they say sex brings out the deepest emotions - and I've read some pieces of writing which literally had me breathing heavily, sometimes more intimate/emotional than I've even seen sex in MOVIES using actual people, let alone video games. (I hope I'm coming off as creepy, I hope I'm not the only one who has read some mind-blowing novels about intimate romance and relationship).

So whichever asshat said we need photo-realistic visuals to achieve that is talking out of his...well, ass.

I teared up watching an LP of Okami, and I'm man enough to admit it. If I can emotionally connect to a non-photorealistic game that I'm not even playing, I'd say there's no weight to the argument that photorealism is required for emotional connection at all.

Frission:

Nicolaus99:
"I think no religious statement has any place in something that isn't a church or a religious topic." - Jim Sterling

Golly gee Jim. Maybe you should go and try to do some more of that actual Journalism you were talking about earlier. Do you even know where Dan Cathy made his statement concerning his personal opinion on gay marriage? Of course not. You're too busy stroking your outrage in defense of your liberal opinions. Here, I've done it for you since you were too busy to bother:

http://www.bpnews.net/BPnews.asp?ID=38271

Here, I'll even reference some of your fellow liberals:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/17/dan-cathy-chick-fil-a-president-anti-gay_n_1680984.html

He said it in an interview with "The Baptist Press: News With A Christian Perspective". A relevant place for one to speak his mind on religious opinion? Have some crow to go with that side fat you'll be scooping out and eating. Maybe you can open an episode with you stuffing some Chick Fil A into your maw.

"Oh no, I'll defend a guy on his free speech, by saying that someone else should not say something"

Oh wait, you forget the fact that he's using the money to pursue his own viewpoint.

Since you're not overtly pleasant, I can say without guilt that you should do your own damn research before running your mouth.

On topic: I liked the fact that you talked about books. You can make an engaging character with only the power of words.

Well, I don't know who this guy is, but I'm pretty sure he's not the mayor of a major population center who is threatening to punish Jim financially for his opinions.

So... your argument pretty much falls apart there, because that's what's happening to Dan Cathy. Right now. As we speak.

Freedom of speech protects you from the government, not other people. Other people can criticize you all they want.

I thought Dan Cathy was a HUGE asshole, until government officials started to state they would withhold building permits because Chick-Fil-A doesn't have "Chicago values" or "Boston values". Then he got my whole-hearted support.

Welcome to the church of Jimquisition :)

Also, what's new?
I mean, that those companies made statements about photorealism is news to me, but wasn't unpredictable. That the "real", the memorable bonds and emotions with games, game-characters or atmospheres isn't necessarily defined by photorealistic images isn't new either. If you look at visual art it becomes clear immediatly, that the painting, or whatever image, doesn't have to be photorealistic to trigger certain emotions and reactions. Considering other art, like books, as already mentioned, there hasn't to be any images at all.
And why is that? (Now i come to the part where i think you (Jim) stepped a bit short, maybe thought about it, but never mentioned) Because, while humans are considered visual-recipient-animals, when it comes to the perception of arts, triggering emotions and such, the most important role lies within the imagination (or what you wanna call it). For example, Limbo becomes intense by imagining the dangers lurking within the atmospheric environment, similar to Bioshock, when you imagine the stories of Rapture (Bioshocks true protagonist. Also, i so hope Infinite will be just as good). And books again are the perfect example, considering, aside the potential writing style, it depends fully on your imagination (in a sense, those are the best "graphics" you'll ever get, as long as your brain-hardware supports it). And here's where i'm getting back to your line of arguments, as you pointed out the importants of creativity, i go along with that, as imagination and creativity will always go hand in hand.

Now, i have nothing against better graphics and why not build games around that, as long as the course games as a whole won't be dominated by that alone.

Also, though i think this is intended, the images of this presentation are kind of disturbing, wickedly put together :/

Meanwhile, in Japan, we have games that almost perfectly mimic the look of an anime like Bleach Soul Resurrection and the various Naruto games. But most importantly they don't abuse the hell out of the colors brown and grey. I'm sorry, but real life isn't a dull and gritty display of brown and grey. I cringe when I think about how people believe that a dark and brown world somehow appears more believable than, say, that flowery meadows by the shrine of Mara in Elder Scrolls IV.

Jim, you would actually boycott a company because their christian owner expressed his own, personal views to a christian radio station? I am disappoint. Plus, doesn't that contradict the message of the video? Dafuq?

Loki_The_Good:

HalfTangible:
Dammit, I was perfectly ready to thank god for you and then you go and do that chick-fil-a crap AGAIN...

First of all Jim, 'i support traditional marriage' is a political opinion, not a religious one.

Second of all, you should at LEAST hate the food served somewhere before you cut out your own fat over it >.>

Name one reason an atheist (ie non religious reason) would give to deny same sex marriage that isn't an outright lie and I might buy that. Just to curb some of the easy lies, our world is drastically overpopulated so a couple not producing offspring isn't bad in fact this needs to happen more if we're ever to reach some sustainability. Adopted children tend to do better with gay parents then straight in every peer reviewed statistical study. This isn't because gay people are better parents but only those who really thought about having children and really want them have kids and so they are self selecting. This is also due to the stricter vetting procedure of adoption. In other words gay people don't accidentally have kids and lock them in a closet for 10 years because they both can't and wouldn't bother.

Also, homosexuality is most likely a common (roughly one in ten) genetic mutation like having a longer second toes. This can be shown many ways, one of which is that homosexual men also have higher predispositions towards other specific physical traits. In other words, it is not a choice. Therefore, politically, in a society that claims universal freedom and life liberty and the pursuit of happiness, denying some people the right to love is fundamentally against the founding principles of the country and, politically speaking, only has religious rational to make the division. Given the doctrine that calls for separation of church and state the reasons and many other religious based decisions are also against the fundamental principles of yours, and nearly every other first world country, most of whom no longer consider it an issue.

Excuse me sir, you seem to have misplaced this. The post I made stated only that supporting traditional marriage is a political opinion, and that you should try chicken sandwiches before calling them s*** (admittedly a bit hypocritical of me, though in my defense it WAS bad the one time I tried it like 10 years ago, but I digress). You seem to be responding to a post containing multiple religious talking points, including whether or not homosexuality is 'right', as well as multiple generalizations. You also seem to be making the assumption I will lie to you when I have yet to say anything that couldn't either be factually verified or an opinion.

But in non-sarcastic answer to the only thing in this hateball that actually had anything to do with what I said... ahem...

Name one reason an atheist (ie non religious reason) would give to deny same sex marriage that isn't an outright lie and I might buy that.

1) Who do you think you're kidding? Even if I DID tell you an argument atheists who don't support gay marriage use, you would deny it flat-out, denounce it as religious garbage (and/or conservative propoganda, depending on your mood), and then shout.

2) Counter-proposal.

How about I point out that many religious people are indifferent to - and in many cases genuinely support - gay marriage, and that many of those people (claim to) have the same faith as those who don't, showing it's separate from religious affiliation?

Oh! How about that many of the people who went to chik-fil-a are gay and in support of free speech, which they would NOT be if they thought this was a genuine hate cri- wait, sorry, talking point. Also irrelevant to this particular discussion.

... Ok, here's one. Marriage is a legal and social contract. Therefore anything related to allowing or not allowing a particular kind of marriage contract would fall under the law. (Actually PERFORMING it can fall under the church, but you can't force a priest/rabbi/whatever-its-called-in-whatever-religion to wed a couple anyway so it's irrelevant to this discussion) If a discussion falls under the law, it is political.

(But if you want one reason an atheist would have to oppose gay marriage, I'm against all relationships. Period. Love is nowhere near the wonderful thing people make it out to be. In fact, it's not good at all. It's awful. I can't even PRETEND I think you'll believe this.)

Sure we don't need photo realism to tell our story, but an aesthetic should mimic the tone of a story. We wouldn't use a bright happy cartoon setting for a gritty tale established in the real world just like we wouldn't use the grey and brown ultra detailed and grim world aesthetic to tell a story about bunnies tickling each other.

We don't need photo realism to tell a story, but we need something close, even if it's just barely, to optimize the way we tell some specific types of stories. To limit ourselves technologically is to limit ourselves creatively. Plus the farther away from the uncanny valley we get the better.

Why is Jim even needing to make this video? We've known for YEARS that "graphics =/= good game" even if developers have been too thick to get it. Why is "mainstream developers STILL retarded graphics whores" newsworthy at this juncture just because some meathead comes out with another baseless claim?

Having played Iji, Pandora's Tower and Bastion, I agree with what Jim's saying and disagree with Crytek and 2K.

Hell, I read fanfiction on a regular basis. It's not hard to find things more emotionally absorbing than Crysis or Call of Honourfield.

Two different issues get a bit mangled up here. Realistic graphics are of course not needed. However there is some truth to a piece of hardware being maxed out. When you look at games of the past, many of them only happened due to technical progress and more advanced technology, many were even the direct result of technology. Doom didn't start out with a design document and ideas on how to fight monsters in hell, it started out with technology that allowed to do first person 3D games really fast. It was the technology that drove the games design, not the other way around. Same is true for Populus, Starfox, Mario64, Final Fantasy VII, Assassins Creed and a heapload of other games. If it wouldn't be for having new technology to play with, those games would never have happened the way they did.

The real breakthrough titles that establish new genres and change the industry for years to come are those titles that happen early in a new console generation. Rarely do those titles come out late in the generation, because by then, everybody already has kind of settled into a type of genre and gameplay that they just repeat with slight variations. That's simply how the industry works and how it has worked for the last two decades, if new tech comes around people will experiment with new ways of using it and that will give rise to a lot of new ideas that never would have happened otherwise.

octafish:
Graphics Shmaphics, current gen consoles are starved for RAM, bring on the next gen.

This was my first thought too.

Bring on next gen so we can have more physics objects and more animations, and that in turn will do an enormous favour for a games presentation and feel. Also more enemies on screen without them becoming retarded would be great too. Current gen consoles were showing their limitations in these regards almost as soon as they were birthed.

wackelpudding:
I wouldn't say BioShock Infinite goes for a cartoony art style or something -- it's certainly not as (photo-)realistic as some of the Call of Honourfields but it goes for as realistic as its fantasy setting allows -- but this is an episode were I could've shouted "Amen!" every five seconds nonetheless. Good job!

While I liked what I saw so far, even though I really didn't want to see anything before actually playing the game and be surprised while playing it, I think the game has contracted a severe case of da Anime heads.

Just look at Elizabeth, that damsel-in-distress sidekick character:

image

Realistic? Those eyes would take up some serious real estate of her skullspace, making her brain roughly the size of that of a big dog, with her cerebellum being squeezed against the lower backside of her skull.

Also, staying with the character of Elizabeth, for I really hate Levine & folks for teasing us with a whole bunch of awesome (yet ridiculously unreal) characters that would look just fine if they popped up in anything from Fist of the North Star to Ninja Scroll - tell me you revise your opinion that her body proportions are anywhere near 'real', please. Come on, her head is bigger than her chest, and she's so skinny she'd have to have her skin stretched for months before some mad doctor could pop them silicone boobies in.

image

Granted, there are other images of her available, but some of those seem to come from FMV sequences, and I am not entirely certain about them having been produced in-house or if it's just another case of Deep Silver/Axis (Dead Island promo trailer) or Mythic/Blur Studio (Warhammer Online: Age of Reckoning promo trailer) - it just remains to be seen.

They might still just pull a Digital Extremes/The Darkness II or Gearbox/Borderlands and revise and redefine the graphical aspects of the game, but none of what I've seen so far screams "REALITY".

In fact, if I were to bump into a person with the proportions Elizabeth features, I'd consider believing in Aliens, and I'd be very afraid I might snap her neck by sneezing at her. In short, I'd be a bit horrified.

Nicolaus99:
"I think no religious statement has any place in something that isn't a church or a religious topic." - Jim Sterling

Golly gee Jim. Maybe you should go and try to do some more of that actual Journalism you were talking about earlier. Do you even know where Dan Cathy made his statement concerning his personal opinion on gay marriage? Of course not. You're too busy stroking your outrage in defense of your liberal opinions. Here, I've done it for you since you were too busy to bother:

http://www.bpnews.net/BPnews.asp?ID=38271

Here, I'll even reference some of your fellow liberals:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/17/dan-cathy-chick-fil-a-president-anti-gay_n_1680984.html

He said it in an interview with "The Baptist Press: News With A Christian Perspective". A relevant place for one to speak his mind on religious opinion? Have some crow to go with that side fat you'll be scooping out and eating. Maybe you can open an episode with you stuffing some Chick Fil A into your maw.

Yes but Chick-Fil-A is a fast food outlet. People go there for food, nothing more. Personally I refuse to eat anywhere that will use my money to fund causes I don't agree with. Especially a business that thinks homosexuality is immoral but not pumping trans fats, grease and misc junk in the bodies of an entire nation.

Headdrivehardscrew:

Come on, her head is bigger than her chest, and she's so skinny she'd have to have her skin stretched for months before some mad doctor could pop them silicone boobies in.

Whilst you are correct about everything else, I actually know a girl from college who has a similar bodily frame to Elizabeth, and she has no apparent trouble supporting tits of a similar size. And as my friend's breasts are natural, I imagine Elizabeth's anatomy is entirely possible (excluding eyes and head).

Varya:
Nah, BioShock Infinite has a conciously cartoony look. Take a look at the main girl, her anatomy isn't proper, just look at her eyes, and it isn't about fantasy, it's because a cartoony faces are easier to relate to, their expressions are more clear. And look at the art for that game in general, it's subtle, I'll give you, but it's colouring and texturing is conciously non-realistic. It fits the setting better, and photorealism would take away from the unique tone of the game

Headdrivehardscrew:
While I liked what I saw so far, even though I really didn't want to see anything before actually playing the game and be surprised while playing it, I think the game has contracted a severe case of da Anime heads.

Just look at Elizabeth, that damsel-in-distress sidekick character:

[... pic snip...]

Realistic? Those eyes would take up some serious real estate of her skullspace, making her brain roughly the size of that of a big dog, with her cerebellum being squeezed against the lower backside of her skull.

Also, staying with the character of Elizabeth, for I really hate Levine & folks for teasing us with a whole bunch of awesome (yet ridiculously unreal) characters that would look just fine if they popped up in anything from Fist of the North Star to Ninja Scroll - tell me you revise your opinion that her body proportions are anywhere near 'real', please. Come on, her head is bigger than her chest, and she's so skinny she'd have to have her skin stretched for months before some mad doctor could pop them silicone boobies in.

[... pic snip...]

Granted, there are other images of her available, but some of those seem to come from FMV sequences, and I am not entirely certain about them having been produced in-house or if it's just another case of Deep Silver/Axis (Dead Island promo trailer) or Mythic/Blur Studio (Warhammer Online: Age of Reckoning promo trailer) - it just remains to be seen.

They might still just pull a Digital Extremes/The Darkness II or Gearbox/Borderlands and revise and redefine the graphical aspects of the game, but none of what I've seen so far screams "REALITY".

In fact, if I were to bump into a person with the proportions Elizabeth features, I'd consider believing in Aliens, and I'd be very afraid I might snap her neck by sneezing at her. In short, I'd be a bit horrified.

I never said BioShock Infinite had a realistic (art) style per se. It has a more realistic style for me than something I would call "cartoony". It is, however, set in a fantasy setting and as such I consider some abnormalities [from "real" reality] as "normal".

Speaking of Elizabeth's anatomy which you both referred to:
Her eyes might be/look big and look anime-ish, but there are people [especially women] whose eyes are or at least appear this big. There are cases where the iris takes up freaking much space of the visible eye. So, yes, it looks odd, but it isn't too unrealistic.
Her body anatomy? While I'd like for her to look more like she wouldn't be blown away by wind speed of Beaufort 4 or 5, there are, again, women who have such proportions [which you might want to call unhealthy]. Then again, the corset she's wearing: Guess, what its purpose is? To squeeze her body into a "perfect" form. Fashion is crazy like that sometimes.
The biggest problem I have with Elizabeth's appearance is her neck. But, once more, such can be found in real life.
You could question that Irrational decided to put all these rather abnormal appearances into one person and you could call it exaggeration that they did, but it is a real possibility within their universe. For me, it doesn't make it "real" real, but also not cartoony.

And why do colourful textures and/or lighting make it cartoony? Is everything that's somewhat set in fantasy automatically cartoony? If so, I gotta adjust my world view.

One thing we all agree on, though, is that photo-realistic graphics wouldn't benefit Infinite. That's something.

The only thing that kind of went unsaid is the real reason 2k made their ridiculous statement: It's a subtle plea to the console giants to hurry up and launch their new systems.

If 2k really believed in what they claim, they would be developing games for PC.

wackelpudding:

One thing we all agree on, though, is that photo-realistic graphics wouldn't benefit Infinite. That's something.

You got it.

I get fistfuls, buckets, megatons of reality when I go outside, and I like reality as represented in movies sometimes. If people think they need to wrap up reality once more in video games, they're wrong.

I'm an Escapist. Capital E. I want my games to be... different. Palatable. Pleasing. Disturbing. Satisfying. Frustrating, if need be, but well put together. Like a cake. If I were to stuff raw eggs, a stick of butter, a bag of sugar and a bag of flour in my face, I wouldn't have cake.

I don't want photo-realism in games, for art needs to be man-made, it needs to be artificial, yet artisanal, not industrial. Yes, I am impressed by people who build photo-realistic pictures up from minute sputterings of an airbrush paintgun, I admire the patience of folks building photo-realistic images up pixel by pixel... that's art alright, but it's art mimicking reality, art enslaved by reality. I don't want that.

I have no issues with Elizabeth looking like a demented Barbie doll, as long as she's part of the vistas, the view, the experience that is, or might be Bioshock 3. I'm happy to get more Bioshock, but, alas, as with that Dark Knight supposedly rising, I fear we might be in for some severe letdowns and disappointments. I think art may very well repeat itself over and over again, especially these days, when we're all easily diagnosed with some form of ADD and in severe need of Adderall or Ritalin. As long as you don't get instructions from dogs or Satan himself, however, I think reality is harsh enough so I'd like art to be pure, unfiltered, real; a proper vent, freedom of the insanity of normalcy, a window, an escape route with a wunderloop - and not a melonfarming pressure cooker. I like LA Noire, but the game bit is sort of a nice-to-have, a value-added-content to the facial capturing/replay routines. I was stunned when I recognized folks in movies and on TV, folks whom I did not recognize by their facial features and their voice alone before LA Noire.

I still can't remember their names, though.

The first time I played Demon's Souls I thought they were crazy, insane, evil. Then I noticed the genius bit. It suddenly popped up, made a little dance on my hippocampus, and it really made my gaming life that much richer and more significant. It inspired me, it hooked me and I am still not done with Dark Souls. It's pretty much the perfect drug, but there just cannot be any perfection when humans are involved. We are imperfection at its peak, and we always need to struggle to get better... and skip Windows 8.

wackelpudding:

Varya:
Nah, BioShock Infinite has a conciously cartoony look. Take a look at the main girl, her anatomy isn't proper, just look at her eyes, and it isn't about fantasy, it's because a cartoony faces are easier to relate to, their expressions are more clear. And look at the art for that game in general, it's subtle, I'll give you, but it's colouring and texturing is conciously non-realistic. It fits the setting better, and photorealism would take away from the unique tone of the game

Headdrivehardscrew:
While I liked what I saw so far, even though I really didn't want to see anything before actually playing the game and be surprised while playing it, I think the game has contracted a severe case of da Anime heads.

Just look at Elizabeth, that damsel-in-distress sidekick character:

[... pic snip...]

Realistic? Those eyes would take up some serious real estate of her skullspace, making her brain roughly the size of that of a big dog, with her cerebellum being squeezed against the lower backside of her skull.

Also, staying with the character of Elizabeth, for I really hate Levine & folks for teasing us with a whole bunch of awesome (yet ridiculously unreal) characters that would look just fine if they popped up in anything from Fist of the North Star to Ninja Scroll - tell me you revise your opinion that her body proportions are anywhere near 'real', please. Come on, her head is bigger than her chest, and she's so skinny she'd have to have her skin stretched for months before some mad doctor could pop them silicone boobies in.

[... pic snip...]

Granted, there are other images of her available, but some of those seem to come from FMV sequences, and I am not entirely certain about them having been produced in-house or if it's just another case of Deep Silver/Axis (Dead Island promo trailer) or Mythic/Blur Studio (Warhammer Online: Age of Reckoning promo trailer) - it just remains to be seen.

They might still just pull a Digital Extremes/The Darkness II or Gearbox/Borderlands and revise and redefine the graphical aspects of the game, but none of what I've seen so far screams "REALITY".

In fact, if I were to bump into a person with the proportions Elizabeth features, I'd consider believing in Aliens, and I'd be very afraid I might snap her neck by sneezing at her. In short, I'd be a bit horrified.

I never said BioShock Infinite had a realistic (art) style per se. It has a more realistic style for me than something I would call "cartoony". It is, however, set in a fantasy setting and as such I consider some abnormalities [from "real" reality] as "normal".

Speaking of Elizabeth's anatomy which you both referred to:
Her eyes might be/look big and look anime-ish, but there are people [especially women] whose eyes are or at least appear this big. There are cases where the iris takes up freaking much space of the visible eye. So, yes, it looks odd, but it isn't too unrealistic.
Her body anatomy? While I'd like for her to look more like she wouldn't be blown away by wind speed of Beaufort 4 or 5, there are, again, women who have such proportions [which you might want to call unhealthy]. Then again, the corset she's wearing: Guess, what its purpose is? To squeeze her body into a "perfect" form. Fashion is crazy like that sometimes.
The biggest problem I have with Elizabeth's appearance is her neck. But, once more, such can be found in real life.
You could question that Irrational decided to put all these rather abnormal appearances into one person and you could call it exaggeration that they did, but it is a real possibility within their universe. For me, it doesn't make it "real" real, but also not cartoony.

And why do colourful textures and/or lighting make it cartoony? Is everything that's somewhat set in fantasy automatically cartoony? If so, I gotta adjust my world view.

One thing we all agree on, though, is that photo-realistic graphics wouldn't benefit Infinite. That's something.

Of, firstly, sorry for not editing down the quote, but I'm on my iPad so editing is a female dog.
Secondly, and more to the point, "cartoony" is maybe a matter of definition, but, yes, I'd still call it cartoony. But the main thing is, Bioshok departed from photorealism, not because of limitations, but because of artistic reasons. Take the eyes, no, it's not super exagerated, but a bit, just enough so that she appears to have big eyes, but "real" enough for us not to emidiately think of her as cartoony. Saying it is "normal for a fantasy-setting" assumes that fantasy can't be photorealistic, or that no other elements than the fantastic in Bioshock are unrealistic, and that just isn't the case.
Colours is definately a cartoony thing, simply because, in cartoons, colors are brighter and overall clearer to define, and also, not realistic. Colours in Bioshok is done in an unreal way. Like the eyes, not so that we emideately go "oh, that's fake" but just enogh to convey the tone clearer. We might even see it as more real, because we remember things clearer than they were, we think of water as blue, grass as green, when there are thousands of variations, but we translate it as green, so making the colours clearer translates the signals to our brain better. But again, the point of the matter, an artistic choice to step away from realism, made not because of limitatios of graphics but to fit the artdirection. Ergo, Bioshok is a perfect example of games embracing non-photorealism

Varya:
Ergo, Bioshok is a perfect example of games embracing non-photorealism

True.
And yes, apparently it's only the definition of the word "cartoony" that keeps clashing our views. Cartoons are an over-exaggeration for me, I guess. If for you it's already one or two steps away from reality [an exaggeration without "over-", which for me is merely a "touch" of fantasy], then, yes, Infinite is sporting a cartoony style.

I'm still not gonna call it "cartoony" when talking about it. ;)

I hate this photo realistic bull myself. I personally need some extra degree of separation for my pallet. If I realistically cut off someone's head in a game, I think I'd be sick because personally can't separate myself.

I don't really understand this Chik Fele thing honestly. I prefer to stay ignorant about. However, what I glen from stuff and third hand information the owner gave money to a anti-same-gender-marriage cause, which personally seems to be an opinion of one person who as an American citizen has a right to do.

My stance I think we should illegalize marriage all together, for the some reason why we should illegalize tobacco and alcohol and pot, which is people abuse it and if one person abuse something no one should have it.

Yes, my opinion is irrational and kinda dumb, but I have the right to have it.

Hahaha, that last joke was the best I have ever seen from you, Jim. Well played.

Nicolaus99:
"I think no religious statement has any place in something that isn't a church or a religious topic." - Jim Sterling

Golly gee Jim. Maybe you should go and try to do some more of that actual Journalism you were talking about earlier. Do you even know where Dan Cathy made his statement concerning his personal opinion on gay marriage? Of course not. You're too busy stroking your outrage in defense of your liberal opinions. Here, I've done it for you since you were too busy to bother:

http://www.bpnews.net/BPnews.asp?ID=38271

Here, I'll even reference some of your fellow liberals:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/17/dan-cathy-chick-fil-a-president-anti-gay_n_1680984.html

He said it in an interview with "The Baptist Press: News With A Christian Perspective". A relevant place for one to speak his mind on religious opinion? Have some crow to go with that side fat you'll be scooping out and eating. Maybe you can open an episode with you stuffing some Chick Fil A into your maw.

That's funny because I thought it was just a joke about his catch-phrase "Thank God for me."

But, no, clearly Jim is part of the liberal agenda to destroy religion and family values and bring about communism.

Nicolaus99:
Hey, tell us again how Bill Clinton was the victim of a vast right wing conspiracy to frame him for infidelity and lying under oath.

It's funny because not one person in this thread said anything about Bill Clinton

You Republicans love conspiracies so much, you seem to think that everyone else does too.

Deathmageddon:
Jim, you would actually boycott a company because their christian owner expressed his own, personal views to a christian radio station? I am disappoint. Plus, doesn't that contradict the message of the video? Dafuq?

The guy also gives lots of money to anti-gay causes, so if you buy stuff from there, you're giving him more money to give to anti-gay causes.

Nicolaus99:

image

Countries with oil obviously have a monopoly on oil.

Chic-Fil-A obviously doesn't have a monopoly on fried chicken or whatever it is that they serve.

The Plunk:

Nicolaus99:

image

Countries with oil obviously have a monopoly on oil.

Chic-Fil-A obviously doesn't have a monopoly on fried chicken or whatever it is that they serve.

BS. Take your hypocrite outrage out on the oil companies; boycott THEM and demand they sell no oil sourced from those countries. And yes, that data is most certainly tracked. Round up your hippie friends and protest at their embassies for executing gays for, you know, being gay. Take it to your congressmen, pass laws against importing from them. If you think the USA isn't sitting on more than enough oil to see to itself you clearly don't know anything about the subject.

If you people are so morally outraged, don't just sit there and "I give a sh_t only when it is convenient and effortless for me to do so."

Nicolaus99:

The Plunk:

Nicolaus99:

image

Countries with oil obviously have a monopoly on oil.

Chic-Fil-A obviously doesn't have a monopoly on fried chicken or whatever it is that they serve.

BS. Take your hypocrite outrage out on the oil companies; boycott THEM and demand they sell no oil sourced from those countries. And yes, that data is most certainly tracked. Round up your hippie friends and protest at their embassies for executing gays for, you know, being gay. Take it to your congressmen, pass laws against importing from them. If you think the USA isn't sitting on more than enough oil to see to itself you clearly don't know anything about the subject.

If you people are so morally outraged, don't just sit there and "I give a sh_t only when it is convenient and effortless for me to do so."

I get it, you hate gay people.

I'm not going to continue arguing with someone who is so irrational and detached from reality that they hate people because a book written over 2000 years ago told them to. Welcome to my ignore list.

Damn, now I'm old. You made your point perfectly to me when you showed that bit from Final Fantasy 6. Well done.

I don't really see where the problem is. In my opinion, graphics and gameplay walks hand in hand. Let's take the original Half Life as an example of a game that managed to set a new standard for storytelling, by creating a dynamic graphics engine which allowed the game to feature bigger more varied environments, and replacing the old cut scenes with continuously interactive characters and events. It introduced a whole new form of storytelling to the gaming world, one which games even today are modeled after.

Better hardware allows for innovation, both when it comes to gameplay and graphics, which in turns leads to better storytelling. Now that some game developers create shallow, generic games has nothing to do with some strange fixation with graphics, but more with the fact that the game developers are simply making bad games.

Sgt. Sykes:
Nah. I love Bastion, Portal or BGoE just as much as I love Crysis, AssCreed or Far Cry.

The thing is, you can make a simplistic-looking, but otherwise great game on old hardware.

You want the next, better Crysis? Can't do.

I fully agree graphics isn't everything. But the point is that games shouldn't RELY on graphics and good graphics shouldn't REQUIRED of ALL games. But it's still important in some games. And yes, Crysis was awesome.

Give this man a medal. Took the words right out of my mouth.

What they might have meant by "this generation is over" is "it's time to release next generation consoles, which normally defines the end of the previous generation"

The guy may be a manger of the restaurant but he is also a person who is allowed to be religious and have his own views. Other than that I totally agree with your episode Jim.

The Plunk:

Nicolaus99:

The Plunk:

Countries with oil obviously have a monopoly on oil.

Chic-Fil-A obviously doesn't have a monopoly on fried chicken or whatever it is that they serve.

BS. Take your hypocrite outrage out on the oil companies; boycott THEM and demand they sell no oil sourced from those countries. And yes, that data is most certainly tracked. Round up your hippie friends and protest at their embassies for executing gays for, you know, being gay. Take it to your congressmen, pass laws against importing from them. If you think the USA isn't sitting on more than enough oil to see to itself you clearly don't know anything about the subject.

If you people are so morally outraged, don't just sit there and "I give a sh_t only when it is convenient and effortless for me to do so."

I get it, you hate gay people.

I'm not going to continue arguing with someone who is so irrational and detached from reality that they hate people because a book written over 2000 years ago told them to. Welcome to my ignore list.

He never said any where that he hates gays. He just pointed out how much of a hypocite you are. Plus people are allowed to have views. People can be against something. Our government doesn't allow Gay marriage why don't you just stop following their rules? There are so many people that don't like gay marriage and they have a right to think that way. It may be rediculous to think that way but they still have a right to. As a side note I have nothing against gay marriage, in fact I know and am friends with 2 gay people.

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