Yep the very reason I've ignored the vast majority of nintendo products over the years is precisely because they all look the same to me. I think on average I can stomach about 3 iterations of a game that is extremely similar from release to release but once you get to 4+ you either kill your franchise or drastically alter it to keep it interesting.
I fucking loved all three Mass Effect games but by the end of three I was certainly thinking "yeah that's enough of this now" and I will be genuinely uninterested in a new ME game if it's just another commander shepard saves the universe with dialogue wheels and half decent cover shooting adventure.
Kinda have to agree. Mario is definitely showing his age now-a-days, and his games just don't interest me anymore. Super Mario 3D Land to me just felt kinda boring and rehashed. Of course it's kind of like what Yahtzee said one time, Mario has went to space, so where else is there for him to go to?
Also, what's the music towards the end of the video before the credits? I swear I heard it before from somewhere but I can't remember where.
I totally get what you are trying to say, and you are right to a point. However I don't agree that anyone has done what Mario does better.
Play Klonoa: Door to Phantomile.
That was a great game. My only gripe with it though is that I felt it was too short. :/
The biggest problem with Mario, in my opinion, isn't the stagnation of things that WORK (which is also bad, mind you), but rather, the stagnation of things that are outdated and DON'T work anymore- most specifically, lives. There is NO POINT in keeping lives around, and there hasn't since 1996, when Super Mario 64 let you save after avery level. Nintendo insists on keeping them around simply because they can't seem to think of what other purpose coins could serve, even though other platformers have done perfectly intelligent, non-lives-related things with them.
Dust: An Elysian Tail looks interesting, thanks for the tip Jim! I'll be downloading it as soon as it's up on XBLA... because I looked just now and although it's listed, I can't download it.
As for Maria, I've never been much of a Nintendo fan and I've never played a single Maria game. So yeah, I can't really add anything to this discussion!
Way to dig the ol'd "Jim is a hypocrite because of Dynasty Warriors v. Mario Kart 7" corpse :P
In any case I enjoyed the episode and will have to take your word for it because I don't play handhelds. I usually only concern myself with console Mario releases of which Mario Galaxy 2 was the last to my knowledge and I only played the first one. If the Wii-U can deliver a next-gen unique Mario experience that accomplishes what Galaxy did then I'll consider buying into Nintendo's next console. Maybe.
I mostly like it for the massive shit it takes all over Moviebob and his pathetic excuses for wanking over every fucking mario game that come out while condemning others for doing the same fucking thing
OBEY WARIO, DESTROY MARIO!
I enjoyed New Super Mario Bros. (DS) the first time around, but quickly realized that it just didn't have the replay value of other Mario games. It felt stale. That's why it's the only game in Mario's "nostalgia series" that I actually own.
I've only briefly played NSMB Wii, and feel pretty apathetic about Super Mario 3D Land and NSMB2.
That said, I have no problems with Super Mario Galaxy 2, despite that it's pretty much just an expansion of the original Galaxy game. The mechanics still felt up to snuff, and the new content was fantastic.
Hopefully Nintendo will get back on track with their innovation for the next part in the series on the Wii U. Hard to say where they'd go from Galaxy, but some sort of dimension-hopping (utilizing the Wii U controller screen) could be cool.
Yes and Jimquisition used to be fresh, provocative and interesting.
Now it's just becoming boring, sad and just repeats what others have said ages ago.
Just like Mario.
*sigh* Mario, Mario, Mario... how the mighty have fallen.
Having barely played Mario Galaxy 1 (like 20 minutes in a friend's house), I IMMENSELY enjoyed Mario Galaxy 2, but I hated the "New" Super Mario Bros. on both the Wii and the DS.
Having played Super Meat Boy (and achieving 100% and going for a second playthrough) and Rayman Origins, heck, even Sonic Generations... Mario is getting old. Sure, Sega took like 10+ games to get Generations right and the entire game is supposed to rely entirely on nostalgia, but at least they took everything that worked in the past and make an amalgam of awesomeness, while still feeling new enough.
Mario is getting a bit repetitive and Nintendo seems to be running out of ideas, but at least there are far worse "rehashed" games out there that ask way more money each year.
Have you played Sonic Colours?
Cuz Sega really kicked Sonic up the arse with that one it's absolutely brilliant, though Generations is amazing I did have a few issues with it that I didn't with Colours, though I'm not going over them for the billionth time.
OT: Yeah pretty much, I mean with the NSMB2 (god even the acronym sucks...) thing surely there are other themes you could have for worlds at least?
Fucking step it up nintendo.
I'm not quite sure if I can agree with Jim on this topic and I try a different angle. So before we start I have to say that I don't own any current Nintendo system and thus none of the new Mario games. But I played ah good amount of SMG 1 and 2 and the New Super Mario wii game.
I think the problem that Nintendo has with Innovation is that the console cycle is far to long. When you look at older consoles from the NES upwards there were like 1-3 core Mario games per System. For the N64 there was only SM64 and for the Game Cube SM Sunshine (correct me if I'm wrong). Now the system is cluttered with Mario titles because Nintendo has to ship games to make profit and keep their fans and investors happy.
To make inventions you have to have time and new tech. All this was incorporated in the Super Mario Galaxy titles that are fresh and new and plain awesome. The later Mario games were just cash-ins.
So if the Mario titles for the wii U bring no innovation I have to agree with Jim. At the moment the problems seem only to occur in the latest additions to the Mario franchise I will file them under faux pas.
Also while I have to agree that Super Meat Boy is an awesome awesome game I'm not sure that it is for everyone and certainly not for every player that enjoys a Super Mario game.
As a last addition Super Mario World was just Super Mario Bros. 3 with Yoshis! Still SWM is one of my favorite Mario games.
I find it funny how every time the topic is "stagnation of games", everyone points their finger at Nintendo and CoD, while ignoring the rest of the industry that isn't even a tiny bit better.
Those few exception are few and far between.
I somewhat agree with Jim, but handheld Mario games were never close to innovation. They never introduced something drastically different or new. It was always the 3D games on the home console that were doing new stuff, with the exception of Galaxy 2. But since it was several times better than Galaxy 1, I will completely ignore the lack of "innovation".
And even tho you can feel the stagnation, I have yet to play a Mario game that wasn't extremely funny. Yes, they may lack any innovation, but they are still funny to play.
I hope Moviebob watches this so he can stop squeeing over seeing a goddamn tanuki feather in a trailer.
Captcha: Be Serious Now
Yes, yes you should.
Hah! well said sir, well said. Im too young for the NES or 'classic Nintendo' to be nostalgia. Therefore I've thought Nintendo could go eat a dick long before things had got to this sorry point.
edit; fucking new quote placement!!! RAAAAAAAGGGEE!
They really do need to do something to spice up the series. Something new and edgy to grab the attention...
I know lets make him an urban street character, with a gun... who's also a werewolf! That'll sell to them kiddies!
Normally agree with Jim, but I'm someone who tends to like a lot of the things older games did not because of nostalgia, but because I just generally prefer those sorts of things. Now, Mario games aren't something I feel like that with, platformers not really being a genre I see as anything but a diversion during a drought of titles I am interested in, but I'm sure there are those who do. In a weird way, by sticking to older mechanics and design when others are experimenting, they're increasing the variety of the genre by maintaining one of the styles that others are moving away from. Ultimately, I think this is good for gamers, because those who want "newer and better"(Which is condescending as hell to those who like the old stuff) have new games that tickle their fancy, while those who prefer older designs/mechanics have new games that suit their tastes too.
I like Mario and I like Nintendo, but I do really see where Jim is coming from. I've never really thought of it in those terms way before, but I can't deny that it is somewhat accurate.
On the other hand I still enjoy Mario games. They're still really fun to me. Even if the mechanics are dated, I still enjoy them. I don't know if I'll be getting the new one, I might though.
Also while this is only about the second Jimquisition video I've ever seen, from what I've seen so far, I really like this guy. He has some good things to say. I like though how he isn't just complete hate all the time, like some other people *cough*Yahtzee*cough*. It was nice to hear him talk about the good as well as the bad, and make suggestions on how to improve. It was what made this video watchable rather than just a pool of angry bile *cough*Yahtzee*cough*.
I think one of the main issues with Mario games not moving forward is that the idea is already well trodden ground. You could forgive something like say Metro Last Light treading the same ground because the concept and execution of the games are so cutting edge and leave more room to grow and refine. Mario has been refined in the same basic area for nearly 30 years in 2D and 15 in 3D. Saying a Mario game is "Well made" is kind of a given, you are not exactly out on the bleeding edge of game design.
Sometimes 'more of the same' is not so bad when it's refined more of the same in a game that had some ambition. Valve, for example, gives us "more of the same" in quite a few places but it always feels like more was needed on the subject. Hell people would throw piles of money at Valve for some more of the same of Half Life.
Mario is a game that, in its current form, has reached the pinnacle of its design. Nintendo needs something fresh.
To make inventions you have to have time and new tech. All this was incorporated in the Super Mario Galaxy titles that are fresh and new and plain awesome. The later Mario games were just cash-ins.
The problem with this is Nintendo is willfully ignoring new technology whist investing in a baffling array of proprietary interfaces. It has almost no online infrastructure (the biggest development of the last 10 years) and their development in graphical power was very minimal on the Wii when compared to the game-cube. A game as good as Galaxy would have been possible there, they just fucked sunshine up.
The other problem with this argument is that many companies seem able to innovate and push existing technology to its limit, Nintendo have never really done this. Relying on quantum leaps in technology to make your concept look fresh is a bit lazy in of it's self never-mind the fact that that gains we get from increased tech are giving us diminishing returns in what new stuff we can do.
I agree however the thing is the target demographic for Mario is static and the people enjoying it now are always moving. The rationale as far as I can tell is that Mario is aimed at little kids and they will play maybe two or three mainstream Mario games before outgrowing the franchise. There isn't a need to innovate as drastically because the people playing Mario Sunshine won't be the people playing Mario Galaxy. Yes there is hardly anything different between New super Mario bros one and two, but because the target audience is so young there is a large amount of people who will not even know the first existed and the second will be their very first Mario game.
So it would be great if they innovated but it doesn't really matter since most people aren't going to be playing Mario games across multiple console generations.
I knda find it funny how little bitches like moviebob whine how call of duty hasnt changed for SOOO long , but never says anything about mario .
Watch "Junk Drawer Rises". He basically says that because Mario innovated so much in the past, they deserve to make nostalgia games as a sort of "comeback tour". He compared this to Paul McCartney singing old Beatles songs instead of making new albums. I thought it was a bit B.S. since remaking old Mario platforming is not as near as inspired as the rest of the competition.
Dynasty Warriors is repetitive sure, but there's also been very little innovation amongst the games as a series. I mean you have the big change in 6 but then what?
I'm not crazy about the "New" series. They're just an officially made fan game. A lot of fun to play, but not of substance. That being said, they make money. So Nintendo does have reason to make them.
And the big, massive mind-blowers typically come out once a generation after the NES. Super Mario World, Mario 64, Sunshine, Galaxy... plenty of interesting spin-offs, but those are more distractions to keep making money until the real meat comes along. Of course, then there are the surprises like the Mario RPGs.
Galaxy 2 was an exception, but it came around the time of the "New" titles, so it wasn't helping with the whole "showing his age" thing. As long as the "New" series doesn't interrupt the REAL new Mario games, I'm fine.
Still, I'm curious what the WiiU 3D Mario Platformer will be. Where can one go after Galaxy?
Here is an idea, mix how you navigate.
The WiiU controller's screen has a way of moving, sort of swapping the controls to "iPhone" mode for a section or some element of gameplay. To keep it from being a gimmick, the whole game is centered around this while still providing the fun and challenge of a typical mario game.
Also no more lives.
So, i'm gonna post this here so it can be ignored and have me be called a Nintendo fan boy by all the cynical folk.. But.. You know what?
It's your fault. All of you Nintendo fans? As an outsider to the whole Nintendo thing I can see rather clearly that its your fault. Zelda 2, Mario Sunshine, and etc.. They do try different things, and then everyone screams and panics because its different and hate it.
Then they go back to making the same game over and over. Why bother being new when your fans will hate you for it?
Decent video, I agree but its not a huge issue for me. Moviebob is going to pounce on this video like a tiger. Fingers crossed for Jim Sterling/Bob Chipman debate.
Last Mario game I played was Mario 64... hrm.
I don't fully agree with Jim here. I like to see the occasional 2 platformer, as I loved Super Mario Bros Wii. 2d platformer is a perfected art(I've never been a fan of the 3D mario games. There's just something off about them.), and I think it's good from time to time for someone to put out their best work. Mario 3 has always been one of my favorite titles so I think it's cool take and make a game out of the same vein and add co-op to it. That was a great way to spice it up, and if you have not played Mario wii with multiple players you just missed the point of the game. (as someone who has always had tons of family and friends to co-op play with , I wish we'd get a heck of alot more local co-op. I don't want to play with random people online remotely as much as my real life people I know.)
I was happy to see some retrogame gems get revisited with megaman 9 and 10. (which Capcom has now declared war on Megaman so I doubt we're going see a new X series game.) I enjoy some old school stuff sprinkled in with the batch of newer games and series. All that said there, I definitely have a point where a company is just churning out 90% of the same game and needs to put a bit more effort into it before I see another one. If nothing else wait a couple years and let me miss the game. Even if you don't change it much, give me some time to fully absorb the previous game before I get another one tossed at me so I can appreciate the differences. Hammering me with the same experience over and over in a short time period is a recipe for me to lose interest as a fan. There's plenty of worse offenders than Mario in terms of beating dead horses with little change.
I think nintendo is pushing their retro angle a bit too hard, especially with a new mario game in both barrels on 3DS and wii U. Stagger them out a bit will ya? I ultimately skip the bulk of Nintendo's systems since N64(last Zelda I gave a crap about was OoT and Link to the past. Mario cart got stale after double dash.), so I suppose i wasn't their target audience anyways. Last new system of theirs I bought was a DS. I can play Wii at my friends and that's good enough for me.
I understand why he does those shorts, he is trying to make things different from the other shows. He is also a movie critic and most critics want to make films themselves, the show allows him to use his audience as a board for his creative side but also allows him to let out his creative side.
If Moviebob wants show his creative side...here's major step to showing creativity......DONT NAME EVERY SINGLE CHARACTER ON THE SHOW *INSERT NAME* THINKER.(Anti, Retro, Cryo,pyro thinker.)I could understood one as the whole evil opposite deal(I get the whole Antithinker as the Bro-core strawman.), but it's all of them.(which I won't be surprised if there's plenty more.) It makes you look not only that you are just flat out stuck on yourself(I'll name this character on my show Firstjustice, Injustice, Second Justice, Harshjustice...yeah that's lame if I did that.), but you have the creativity of Rob Liefeld. It doesn't help the side characters are Commissioner Bunnyface and Ivan. (Navi spelled backwards.)There's other stuff but that is the cherry in the turd on top of what could been an edible sunday.
Mario reminds me of Katamari Damacy and the Simpsons.
Katamari in that it used to be good, but then all the sequels became the same thing over and over. I'm a huge Katamari fan and I've only played a small amount of Mario (I had a Playstation and not an N64 back in the day), and even I can recognize it's the same old story, same old song and dance (my friend).
But Katamari bowed out after being milked for sequels. Mario just keeps going, kind of like the Simpsons.
How did this become a topic about Bob Chipman?
Oh, right... Mario was mentioned, and as the only person on the Internet who still likes Mario (as everyone knows those games don't sell at all) who's not allowed to express his opinion, he MUST be referred to.
All well and good, but don't you think after over 25 years of constant innovation, Mario can have a break and just coast for a little bit? Besides, we weren't all alive for the beginning of Mario, so games like the New Super Mario Bros. series are great for people like myself who started around the N64 era.
I just can't get into Super Mario or any Nintendo title anymore. I got Super Mario 3D Land and was sorely disappointed. Like Jim points out, the quality is there, but the spark isn't. It's GOOD it's just not GREAT.
I used to be really 'wowed' by Nintendo games. They always make about four or five excellent games that make their consoles worth buying (I buy the handhelds for 3rd party titles), but they're counting waaaay too heavily on that these days. I was severely underwhelmed by Super Mario Galaxy 2 and Skyward Sword. I think that those of us that have been there since the beginning and don't have a hard on for retro gaming are getting tired. There's better stuff out there.
Will I get a WiiU? The answer is 'probably', just because I always like having all the consoles... but I don't know. I'm not looking forward to buying a next gen console with last generation graphics again. Nintendo is always stuck in the past, in more ways than one, and while I respect the hell out of them for always trying new things with their hardware, they need to remember to bump their software up as well.
I feel like this week's podcast can pretty much apply to any Nintendo game, not just Mario.
I arrived at that state well before today.
Honestly: Apart from nifty perspective hacks, I didn't even find Super Mario Galaxy to be anything other than a retread of previous 3D Mario titles (tastefully Frankensteined).
Keep in mind, these aren't BAD games. They are mechanically of high quality, visually coherent, and very polished.
But I can not care about them at all.
The best I can say about Mario games today, is that at least the new generation of gamers can play and enjoy them.
LoZ is the only Nintendo franchise I even care about at this point. Can't really be bothered to talk about Mario games when I'm completely apathetic towards them.
Super Paper Mario is the only recent Mario game I find fun.
I'm apparently a war criminal.
Platformers are, by and large, boring for me.
hmm me too.
interesting video from someone with a passion for the genre but yeah not a genre i like. actually its more a case of detest with a passion yet i still decided to watch to see what jim had to say about it and its issues
Fair enough, Mario games are a bit hackneyed - but I don't think it's fair to claim that Meat Boy is a better game, it's not - just because it's an indi game and liking an indi game is somehow edgy and unique, it doesn't change the fact that Meat Boy is just an average platformer. Seriously, I've played mario games a lot more than Meat Boy, and I'd rather play any Mario game than Meat Boy.
I'm not saying Meat Boy is a bad game, but it's damn over-rated... it's a hunk of meat, the gameplay mechanics are entirely unoriginal, we've seen everything in Meat Boy several times before. For me, Mario games are about the mechanics, the unique platforms for instance than rotate, or move, or desintigrate, or do anything more clever than just stand there. Mario games always try to be more than just platform games, Meat Boy is just a platform game. Rayman, is a well animated platform game. Neither Rayman nor Meat Boy has really brought anything new, it seems that in that marketplace, it's only Nintendo that get anywhere close to innovation. These games have a lot of polish, game mechanics that go beyond the standard 2D game, and that started with Mario. Look at Kirby as well for example - vastly under-rated platform games that have so many unique features, but most gamers dismiss Kirby games as shallow and aimed at children. In terms of game mechanics and complexity - Meat Boy is retarded compared to even Mario 2, it's no more complex than N+, it's a fluid and enjoyable game, but it's not gonna influence a whole industry.
Frankly I'm just glad that we don't already live in the grey and brown FPS world that AAA titles have created - I'm glad that we still have Mario games and the Wii and Nintendo to bring some colour to gaming. I'm especially looking forward to Pikmin3, which some people might dismiss as being aimed at kids, but actually it's about the most interesting, strategic, nostalgic, and challenging game series you'll come across. The gaming world needs Nintendo and Mario and all the influence that they bring - if it wasn't for Mario, then people might not even like platform games as much as they do - without Mario, platform games might never have evolved past Manic Miner.
Moviebob is probably going to rage when he sees this. And it'll be fun to watch him rant like a nostaliga-blinded twit.
Follow moviebob's twitter feed? He's already seen the video, likes it, and he agrees to some of the points, calling a lot of them reasonable and sound. He is also not going to lose his mind over them. That's what teenagers and the emotionally immature do.
Those who've done some living realize that people can disagree on things and not descend into verbal shouting matches. This is not 4Chan.