Getting Furious Over "Girlfriend Mode"

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Tiamat666:

That's not a sexist, tired stereotype, that is a fact. All gamer-girls I know don't play shooters. Those who do, may be good at them, I don't know because I have never seen one. But it is known that males have a better spacial sense than females on average.

special sense? what the fuck is that supposed to be?

if you play games regularly then shooters are not so "hard" as to need something like the "best friend mode" (which is what I think they are actually calling it) you may not be overly good at them but at least competent enough to get through

this "mode" was made for non-gamers

FelixG:

I miss the days when people didnt whine over everything.

BENZOOKA:
Political correctness gone fucking mad.

I hate to be "that person" but its all to easy to sit there and say "whats the problem bro?" when its not YOU who's the target of the latest controversy/PR blunder

(target may not be the right word but I'm sure you get what I mean)

now granted I'm not all that fussed over "grilfreind" mode since that was never what they were calling it "in-game" and its just a dumb statement by some guy...and it is true that people can take certain facts and run with them

much like the Lara croft incident where it sounded like we were subjected to some brutal rape scene "Boys Don't Cry" style...which simply wasn't the case

People are actually freaking about this?
Really?
REALLY???

Vault101:

FelixG:

I miss the days when people didnt whine over everything.

BENZOOKA:
Political correctness gone fucking mad.

I hate to be "that person" but its all to easy to sit there and say "whats the problem bro?" when its not YOU who's the target of the latest controversy/PR blunder

(target may not be the right word but I'm sure you get what I mean)

now granted I'm not all that fussed over "grilfreind" mode since that was never what they were calling it "in-game" and its just a dumb statement by some guy...and it is true that people can take certain facts and run with them

much like the Lara croft incident where it sounded like we were subjected to some brutal rape scene "Boys Don't Cry" style...which simply wasn't the case

I wasn't referring to this alone, I was more meaning everything in general.

There is one thing in all this I am absolutely sure of.

No one is going to listen to 100+ people yelling at them.

Moonlight Butterfly:

They were basically saying all women who play games are idiots and only play because their boyfriend is playing.

Okay, now you're just exaggerating. The idea behind the "BFF mode" is that someone who isn't as good at videogames gets to play on par with someone who is better, leading to less headaches and more overall enjoyment. While it was in poor taste to refer to it as a "girlfriend mode" due to the many other demographics who can make use out of it, you should not consider it an attack against all women who play video games. And you really shouldn't be assuming that Gearbox thinks all women who play their games only do it for a man's enjoyment.

Landshark1:

Moonlight Butterfly:

They were basically saying all women who play games are idiots and only play because their boyfriend is playing.

Okay, now you're just exaggerating. The idea behind the "BFF mode" is that someone who isn't as good at videogames gets to play on par with someone who is better, leading to less headaches and more overall enjoyment. While it was in poor taste to refer to it as a "girlfriend mode" due to the many other demographics who can make use out of it, you should not consider it an attack against all women who play video games. And you really shouldn't be assuming that Gearbox thinks all women who play their games only do it for a man's enjoyment.

Oh I don't think that was the intention of the mode. On twitter they made it clear that the dev was telling an anecdote about his girlfriend and the press changed it to 'girlfriend mode' presumably to get more hits.

However those are the implications of someone calling it 'girlfriend mode' If that's what it was called in game. Before Gearbox explained themselves I think people had a right to be angry about it. I'm not mad at them and I'm looking forward to B2, but I was pretty angry at first.

Hope that makes sense.

This whole thing is incredibly stupid. A designer called a skilltree in Borderlands 2 girlfriend mode. Not girl mode by the way, girlfriend mode. He's not actually saying women are shit at games. He's saying people who are in a relationship might want their partners to be able to enjoy BL2 while not being particularly skilled at it.

Let me tell you about all the anecdotal experience this guy gets. He goes to Gamescom and sees guys play his game. He goes on forums like this and sees that the overwhelming majority of users and even the overwhelming majority of content creators are male. He looks at the gaming industry at large and sees that the only female, remotely famous developer he can think of is someone like Jade Raymond. Oh wait, nobody cares about Jade Raymond anymore. In fact, you've probably forgotten who she is after you read about her game, Assassin's Creed.

I know that when guys read all these sensationalist articles and get all these accusations by journalists and people like Anita Sarkeesian, it's natural to pretend that the reality is this kind of flowery, equal world. But we're not there yet, guys. Really. You know there aren't actually as many female gamers as there are male ones. What someone like Zydrate now implies with statements like "Hrrng" is that if we acknowledge that this is how it is, that means we say this is how it is supposed to be. And that's not actually true. It's the same reason there's this huge resistance to evolutionary psychology. You automatically jump to a godwin-esque accusation scheme of sorts. Admitting that we're not quite there yet and admitting that it's pretty damn understandable and actually justified that someone like this dev would say girlfriend mode instead of boyfriend mode is an important step in moving away from this onesidedness. If you make yourself believe that gamers are an equal-gendered audience because it makes you feel less like the asshole Anita Sarkeesian is saying you are, we'll never get to a point where we can actually come to any kind of conclusion about what we can do about this.

This is pretense. "Hrrng" is pretense. It's the worst kind of "I don't need to defend my position, I'm right because me being right is the more desirable state of affairs for both of us" arguing that ignores real problems because admitting they exist is uncomfortable and leaves a bitter taste in your mouth. Tough shit. Let's actually look into why this guy said what he said, instead of screaming misogynyst at him like he's some kind of weirdo who hates women.

Tiamat666:

In the minds of many, Hemingway was proving the existence of the casual sexism that is endemic in videogame development and culture by playing off the tired stereotype that women either don't play or are bad at shooters.

That's not a sexist, tired stereotype, that is a fact. All gamer-girls I know don't play shooters. Those who do, may be good at them, I don't know because I have never seen one. But it is known that males have a better spacial sense than females on average.

I play tons of shooters. According to my Raptr it's my most played Genre...
There you go! You have met one, happy now?

Moonlight Butterfly:

BENZOOKA:
Political correctness gone fucking mad.

Well as long as everything is catered to you I guess it's all okay.

They were basically saying all women who play games are idiots and only play because their boyfriend is playing.

That's bloody stupid.

Except that's not what they were saying.

Moonlight Butterfly:

Tiamat666:

In the minds of many, Hemingway was proving the existence of the casual sexism that is endemic in videogame development and culture by playing off the tired stereotype that women either don't play or are bad at shooters.

That's not a sexist, tired stereotype, that is a fact. All gamer-girls I know don't play shooters. Those who do, may be good at them, I don't know because I have never seen one. But it is known that males have a better spacial sense than females on average.

I play tons of shooters. According to my Raptr it's my most played Genre...
There you go! You have met one, happy now?

It's always nice when people provide the evidence for their point that they condemn when an opponent brings it. Delicious hypocrisy.

Num1d1um:

Moonlight Butterfly:

Tiamat666:

That's not a sexist, tired stereotype, that is a fact. All gamer-girls I know don't play shooters. Those who do, may be good at them, I don't know because I have never seen one. But it is known that males have a better spacial sense than females on average.

I play tons of shooters. According to my Raptr it's my most played Genre...
There you go! You have met one, happy now?

It's always nice when people provide the evidence for their point that they condemn when an opponent brings it. Delicious hypocrisy.

My raptr is on my profile page, knock yourself out.

But lemurs exist. Honest.

image

see.

Moonlight Butterfly:

Num1d1um:

Moonlight Butterfly:

I play tons of shooters. According to my Raptr it's my most played Genre...
There you go! You have met one, happy now?

It's always nice when people provide the evidence for their point that they condemn when an opponent brings it. Delicious hypocrisy.

My raptr is on my profile page, knock yourself out.

But lemurs exist. Honest.

You didn't even understand what I was saying, bravo. It's not about whether or not you actually play a lot of FPS. It's about the fact that you're countering anecdotes with anecdotes.

Num1d1um:
snip

Err I did understand that. That's why I gave actual proof hence me saying my raptr is on my profile, that's not an anecdote...it's proof :|

I'm not a girl but honestly, this 'girlfriend mode' sounds appealing to me. I'm one of those people who pick the easiest mode in shooters because I find the shooting the most boring part of the game. Easier mode means I get shot less and get to move on with the game faster. And unlike real puzzles - you know, like ones where you actually need to use your brain - it's not like being able to move your mouse accurately and quickly to click on a target is a skill I cherish or consider the least bit important.

So if I was a girl I'd consider it a compliment that people think my entire sex sucks at shooters.

Blood Brain Barrier:
I'm not a girl but honestly, this 'girlfriend mode' sounds appealing to me. I'm one of those people who pick the easiest mode in shooters because I find the shooting the most boring part of the game. Easier mode means I get shot less and get to move on with the game faster. And unlike real puzzles - you know, like ones where you actually need to use your brain - it's not like being able to move your mouse accurately and quickly to click on a target is a skill I cherish or consider the least bit important.

I don't think anyone is knocking the actual idea of the mode just if it was called 'girlfriend mode' which has some nasty implications.

It's not called girlfriend mode and therefore the whole concept is fine by me.

Moonlight Butterfly:

Num1d1um:
snip

Err I did understand that but I gave actual proof hence me saying my raptr is on my profile, that's not an anecdote...it's proof :|

.... do you know what an anecdote even is? This being an anecdote is not about its truth contingent, it's about its relevancy. When a guy says "I haven't met many female gamers", it's his experience as a single person. His single experience says absolutely nothing. When you counter with "I play games and I'm a girl", it's about your experience as a single person. It says absolutely nothing and is as irrelevant as him saying he doesn't know many female gamers. Whether or not your pull out your raptr profile, it's still about you alone. Your personal raptr profile represents nobody but yourself, so it's anecdotal. Regardless of whether you play a certain genre or not.

Today I learned Hemmingway is the only person ever to imply something may or may not be useful in a situation wherein you wish to do something with your girlfriend and you should all be extremely offended by this.

Are you people serious?

Like, honestly, you're actually upset over this?

What next "Gifts for her" is offensive for it implies that women can't buy their own gifts?

It was a nick name for the skill tree, something which the development team could relate to.

Because, being a gamer, we're all familiar with the situation of having to bring somebody foreign to the media to play with us.

In this case, they used girlfriends as an example.

Is that really so hard to grasp?

There was no sinisterness to it, nothing snide or mean, it was just a guy who was used to being in more understanding company sharing an idea with the world, only to find the irrational and closed minded people completely ignore what a great idea this is and focus instead on the example the name demonstrates.

Num1d1um:
snip

Yeah but the fact is he was saying 'women don't play shooters because I haven't met any that do' which is the same as saying lemurs don't exist because I've never personally seen one.

The fact is, even if both of our stories are personal, at least mine is based in logic and fact...-.-

Clearly there is at least one woman who plays shooters. Because she's right here, and therefore, his initial statement is wrong.

Moonlight Butterfly:

Num1d1um:
snip

Yeah but the fact is he was saying 'women don't play shooters because I haven't met any that do' which is the same as saying lemurs don't exist because I've never personally seen one.

The fact is, even if both of our stories are personal, at least mine is based in logic and fact...-.-

I just explained why it doesn't matter how true your story is. I'm pretty sure when someone says he's never met any female gamers, he's not lying. By saying that he isn't implying they don't exist. He's saying he hasn't met them.

He's not actually saying Lemurs don't exist because he hasn't seem them. That's what you're pretending he's saying so you can make fun of his statement. He's saying he hasn't seen any, so he presumes they're rare.

Don't twist what people are saying or pretend they imply something they don't just so you have an easier time arguing on the internet.

Tiamat666:

In the minds of many, Hemingway was proving the existence of the casual sexism that is endemic in videogame development and culture by playing off the tired stereotype that women either don't play or are bad at shooters.

That's not a sexist, tired stereotype, that is a fact. All gamer-girls I know don't play shooters. Those who do, may be good at them, I don't know because I have never seen one. But it is known that males have a better spacial sense than females on average.

I'm sorry but you're just super fucking wrong.

Almost all the original "emprical evidence" suggesting differences in cognitive ability between males and females has been highly contested numerous times in the last few decades. In some visual tests women seem to do better, sometimes worse, but never with any reliable consistency. On top of that when differences are spotted it is essentially impossible to determine what is biological and what is cultural. By all indications women are just as good as men in mathematics and most related fields.

Now that is "a fact".

Num1d1um:

Moonlight Butterfly:

Num1d1um:
snip

Err I did understand that but I gave actual proof hence me saying my raptr is on my profile, that's not an anecdote...it's proof :|

.... do you know what an anecdote even is? This being an anecdote is not about its truth contingent, it's about its relevancy. When a guy says "I haven't met many female gamers", it's his experience as a single person. His single experience says absolutely nothing. When you counter with "I play games and I'm a girl", it's about your experience as a single person. It says absolutely nothing and is as irrelevant as him saying he doesn't know many female gamers. Whether or not your pull out your raptr profile, it's still about you alone. Your personal raptr profile represents nobody but yourself, so it's anecdotal. Regardless of whether you play a certain genre or not.

While we both agree that circumstantial evidence is never a solid foundation for the start of an argument, couldn't it be argued that, when someone else presents their own personal experiences as irrefutable proof of their position, countering that position with your own personal experiences is a good way to prove that their personal experiences mean absolutely nothing?

Landshark1:

Num1d1um:

Moonlight Butterfly:
[quote="Num1d1um" post="6.385315.15325201"]snip

snip

While we both agree that circumstantial evidence is never a solid foundation for the start of an argument, couldn't it be argued that, when someone else presents their own personal experiences as irrefutable proof of their position, countering that position with your own personal experiences is a good way to prove that their personal experiences mean absolutely nothing?

If you think that countering bad arguments with bad arguments is good debating, sure. The thing is just, it's not. It's the most lazy and intellectually bankrupt way of doing it. It's akin to answering an insult like "I f-ed your mom" with "well I f-ed yours twice". It's cheap, reflects poorly on you and you really shouldn't do it unless you have absolutely no other way of demonstrating the weakness of an argument. Note also that this often leads to more or less intentional strawmen argument and misrepresentations of what the opposition said, mainly because it's always easier to make fun of something you've spun a little to sound more asenine than it originally did. Considering how uptight this forums seems to me, I'd expect more from the people here than that.

Num1d1um:
snip

Nooo pretty sure he was saying he's never met any female gamers who don't play shooters and therefore implying that they are correct in assuming don't women play or enjoy shooters... I didn't twist what he was saying at all.

-.-

Moonlight Butterfly:

BENZOOKA:
Political correctness gone fucking mad.

They were basically saying all women who play games are idiots and only play because their boyfriend is playing.

No. That is not what they were saying. At all.

I've never actually played Borderlands, but if I'm not mistaken isn't a bloody shooter kind of manly type of game? Seems like a place where a mode like that being called "Girlfriend mode" would be kind of humorous. If my girlfriend wanted to join, and I activated it, we would both laugh at the name.

Either way, it doesn't insult women's ability to play games, at all. Let's see it in this context. I'm half way through Borderlands and my girlfriend wants to give it a shot. My girlfriend has actually played more than her fair share of shooters and knows how to handle one. But that doesn't mean she knows how to play Borderlands. She doesn't know the specific mechanics of this game. This would put her at a disadvantage and she likely would not fare well.

That's something that could happen to ANYBODY. You can't throw anyone, no matter how much 'gaming' experience they have, in the middle of the game and expect them to do well enough to enjoy themselves. The girlfriend wanting to try is just a very classic example. Which is why I don't think it's offensive at all.

Either way, I'm very anti-censorship and believe they should be able to name it to whatever they want. They can name their hardest difficulty 'Jew Escape From Auschwitz' for all I care, if people wanted to take them down for it I would fully support them to go live with it. The game is rated M, it's meant for those 17 or older, it can be offensive as it wants. That's all I have to say.

God damn it people. This is what he said:

"That's not a sexist, tired stereotype, that is a fact. All gamer-girls I know don't play shooters. Those who do, may be good at them, I don't know because I have never seen one. But it is known that males have a better spacial sense than females on average."

Notice how he says "All gamer-girls I know don't play shooters. Those who do, may be good at them, I don't know because I have never seen one.", NOT "All gamer-girls I know don't play shooters. Therefore there are no girls who play shooters."

It's not that hard to go back half a page, check what we're talking about and read it. If you think the above paragraph implies no women play shooters, you're doing the exact thing I said you do, but unconsciously. He's not saying that. You want him to be saying it.

Num1d1um:
It's not that hard to go back half a page, check what we're talking about and read it. If you think the above paragraph implies no women play shooters, you're doing the exact thing I said you do, but unconsciously. He's not saying that. You want him to be saying it.

You're really expecting people who get mad at something being called "Girlfriend mode" to not be irrational and sensational when somebody says something?

This is kinda the problem, a lot of these people just don't read or understand what the original person is saying, which has been demonstrated right now and in the context to what the original debate is about.

Num1d1um:
God damn it people. This is what he said:

"That's not a sexist, tired stereotype, that is a fact. All gamer-girls I know don't play shooters. Those who do, may be good at them, I don't know because I have never seen one. But it is known that males have a better spacial sense than females on average."

Notice how he says "All gamer-girls I know don't play shooters. Those who do, may be good at them, I don't know because I have never seen one.", NOT "All gamer-girls I know don't play shooters. Therefore there are no girls who play shooters."

It's not that hard to go back half a page, check what we're talking about and read it. If you think the above paragraph implies no women play shooters, you're doing the exact thing I said you do, but unconsciously. He's not saying that. You want him to be saying it.

I made an account! Just for you!

Ahem...

Tiamat666:
That's not a sexist, tired stereotype, that is a fact. All gamer-girls I know don't play shooters. Those who do, may be good at them, I don't know because I have never seen one. But it is known that males have a better spacial sense than females on average.

Again... did you see the part you forgot to mention?

Tiamat666:
That's not a sexist, tired stereotype, that is a fact.

He then proceeds to use a personal anecdote that no girls he knows plays shooters. He then proceeds to treat the "good female shooter player base" as a mythical beast, who may or may not exist, as he himself has never met one and then backs up his claim using "evidence" that men are inherently superior in terms of spacial sense.

Yeah, no.

I play shooters mainly myself... mainly because most RPGs nowadays are awful, but still, and I can safely say I play better than alot of my friends, and even my last boyfriend. He sucked at games, and judging from the number of guys I've killed in CS, TF2, etc, lots of men suck at games.

I think we should call this mode "boyfriend mode" as the vast majority of male players I've met have been absolutely awful at shooters.

I wasn't personally offended by the girlfriend comment, I raised an eyebrow, said "really?" and moved on... what I'm interested in is the fact people are defending it. Whether the reaction is too far or not is irrelevant to me, I'm more flabbergasted in how people can just say "It's a-ok that he said it because it's TRUE!" And "women shouldn't complain, these games are meant for boys, just get a sense of humor." Yeah, I could point to many examples over the years of problems with this... but really, I shouldn't have to at this point.

Developer guy said something dumb, sure, some chuckled it off, some people got offended, sure, then people defended the original position and... what?

KrystelCandy:
snip

Ta Krystal was just about to point that out but you beat me to it. I too had a bf that was pants at games. :p But I have met plenty of guys who are awesome (and better than me) ofc.

Welcome to the escapist. :3

Golem239:
I thought "girlfriend mode" was what the developers called and it's really just called the BFF skill tree

I think that may be what a majority of readers readers read it as and just went nuts about it. But making the statement wasn't helping anyone to begin with.

Should have called it noob mode.

Moonlight Butterfly:

KrystelCandy:
snip

Ta Krystal was just about to point that out but you beat me to it. I too had a bf that was pants at games. :p But I have met plenty of guys who are awesome (and better than me) ofc.

Welcome to the escapist. :3

Thank yous!~

Now back to my lurking ways.

Rewrote this like 6 times... my captcha said "think twice".

KrystelCandy:
PLEASE

I wrote out like 3 paragraphs of f*cking text trying to imagine how I could possibly phrase this in a way that people understand what I'm saying. I'm starting to wonder if I have some kind of communication problem or if you simply don't get my point.

Let me make it clear, and I'll be talking about hemmingway here, not tiama.

The reason this guy is using girl as part of his relationship-based nickname for the skilltree is because in his PERSONAL experience, in the inept/adept couple situation this mode was made for, the female has been the inept part. He is projecting this onto the general gaming public because he is getting the impression that this is how it is with almost everyone.

What he's not saying is that this is good, right, true, absolute or an ought state. There's a severe disconnect that happens everytime in discussions like this where people like you think that a speaker who states what he perceives as an IS must be also think of that state as a desired OUGHT. Saying how you think things are is not equal to saying you want them to be like that or that they're good how you think they currently are. Those are seperate statements that are not implied in a perceived IS statement.

This exact thing happens in debates about evolutionary psychology and societal gender roles. In those things, people who, for example, think women are on average physically weaker than men, are accused of implying that there should be a social consequence that disadvantages women based on that thought. They don't imply that, and pretending they imply that is a corrupt way of strawmaning their position into something that is easy to attack and makes the attacker appear to have an inherent moral advantage in the debate.

That's exactly what's going on in all the controversy going on right now. It's manipulative, drives attention away from the real, underlying issues and is just an outright shitty and cowardly thing to do.

Please stop misrepresenting what people say and then attacking a misrepresented position.

Num1d1um:

KrystelCandy:
PLEASE

Snip

You're the one who doesn't seem to be listening. His personal experiences don't mean anything, and we can say he's wrong as we are females who are outside his personal experiences, end of that story. Him projecting this doesn't matter, being wrong doesn't mean it's OKAY to be wrong, and defending him for being wrong because he used his own personal experiences to support his position is silly.

I also never said anything about it being good, right, true, or absolute, I just pointed out exactly what he said and which you seem so keen on ignoring. How he prefaced his comment is very important.

At no point did I say things are not equal, I never raised a big fuss about this... but I am about you.

You're just putting words in my mouth and saying how I'm wrong, all I did was refute your comment. Everything else was just a personal female opinion on the overall subject and not directly at your post, his post, or even the OP.

You also bring up a faulty analogy in regards to physical strength because that one actually has evidence to back it up, but it doesn't deny women can't BECOME physically strong. And of course anyone who thinks women should be disadvantaged over having less average physical strength should be ignored as an idiot... much like this comment should have been.

What did you say again? Strawman? Hmm... my spider-senses are tingling.

Edit: I like how you snipped my comment and named it "PLEASE".

KrystelCandy:

Num1d1um:

KrystelCandy:
PLEASE

Snip

I'm gonna name this PLEASE cause you obviously didn't get why I did that

You are about me? Really? I hope not, I don't even know you. And you make comments on my snipping...

So what you're saying is that when a guy comes to a faulty conclusion about something based on personal experience that doesn't reflect the entire world, we should shit on him for not being everyone and having that insight? Seems a little crass to me.

I'd love if you'd actually make an argument instead of saying "this is silly". On top of that, you still didn't get my point. I'm not saying it's okay that he's wrong. I'm saying it's more important to look at why he(and so many others) are wrong so we can prevent other people from getting wrong perceptions. The notion that personal experiences don't matter is ridiculous, as I presume you're a human and thus also base most of your opinions and impressions off of your personal experiences. When personal experience is the foundation of a statement, ignoring that and saying it's irrelevant is like asking why earthquakes happening and then saying plate tectonics don't matter when someone gives an answer. As opposed to you, I'm actually concerned with how and why hemmingway got this impression instead of labeling him an idiot and forgetting the thing entirely. In case you haven't noticed, his position is quite popular, and ignoring it won't fix anything. Ignoring problems doesn't tend to solve them in general, you should know that. Saying his personal experience is irrelevant is ignoring the root of the issue, and labeling him and idiot worth ignoring is pretending there is no issue.

But that's not true. This guy isn't just some idiot, just like a rampaging shooter isn't just some psycho - to solve issues we need to find out why dumb people say dumb things and why crazy people do crazy things, not shove them to the side and pretend they don't exist.

If you don't look into what made him and someone like tiama make the statements they make,more people will make these statements believeing them to be true because you refused to fix the cause, or even acknowledge its existence.

Num1d1um:

KrystelCandy:

Num1d1um:

Snip

I'm gonna name this PLEASE cause you obviously didn't get why I did that

You are about me? Really? I hope not, I don't even know you. And you make comments on my snipping...

So what you're saying is that when a guy comes to a faulty conclusion about something based on personal experience that doesn't reflect the entire world, we should shit on him for not being everyone and having that insight? Seems a little crass to me.

I'd love if you'd actually make an argument instead of saying "this is silly". On top of that, you still didn't get my point. I'm not saying it's okay that he's wrong. I'm saying it's more important to look at why he(and so many others) are wrong so we can prevent other people from getting wrong perceptions. The notion that personal experiences don't matter is ridiculous, as I presume you're a human and thus also base most of your opinions and impressions off of your personal experiences. When personal experience is the foundation of a statement, ignoring that and saying it's irrelevant is like asking why earthquakes happening and then saying plate tectonics don't matter when someone gives an answer. As opposed to you, I'm actually concerned with how and why hemmingway got this impression instead of labeling him an idiot and forgetting the thing entirely. In case you haven't noticed, his position is quite popular, and ignoring it won't fix anything. Ignoring problems doesn't tend to solve them in general, you should know that. Saying his personal experience is irrelevant is ignoring the root of the issue, and labeling him and idiot worth ignoring is pretending there is no issue.

But that's not true. This guy isn't just some idiot, just like a rampaging shooter isn't just some psycho - to solve issues we need to find out why dumb people say dumb things and why crazy people do crazy things, not shove them to the side and pretend they don't exist.

If you don't look into what made him and someone like tiama make the statements they make,more people will make these statements believeing them to be true because you refused to fix the cause, or even acknowledge its existence.

/sighs.

Last post from me.

Point by point, I'm concerned about you because you're defending a post you really shouldn't.

I also note how you post my comment refuting what you said and pointing out how you casually ignored the part that makes his comment offensive you named "PLEASE", which says a whole lot of things.

You then make a bunch of arguments against things I never brought up.

Yes, we should expect him to have a bit of insight, the world is no longer one persons little bubble, and even if he DOESN'T have that worldly insight, the simple knowledge that girls play games, and there's alot of us as gamers, and yes, we can do good at them too should not require any kind of in depth study or knowledge.

I'm not making an argument because I never argued, I refuted your initial defense because you ignored how he prefaced his own comment. The reason he and so many other people have problems is the culture of videogames, and that's a different discussion I'm not getting into because I don't like you and don't feel we'll get anywhere with someone who just labels my comments as a begging phrase, clamoring for attention and understanding.

https://twitter.com/wyp100/status/234981941097684992

Not just him, it's the culture of the industry itself, they'll learn... over time, as long as we keep calling it out and saying "not cool guys!". By calling him out he's learned something outside his bubble of personal experiences, that is to be applauded, it's another personal experience for him.

And I was calling YOU the idiot, not him, he hasn't said anything since, maybe he doesn't care, or maybe he learned, we won't know until he says something else, but since you seem to treat my post so politely by making up arguments and dismissing me. Well!

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