The Big Picture: Sidekicks

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Sidekicks

MovieBob takes you down the dark path of the Robin.

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Nicely done Bob, and yes Dick Grayson is once again Nightwing, only now he has swapped his old costume for one that is remand black instead of blu and black.

I liked that you used a very recent picture of the four Robins together, it helps keep the show feel up to date. One thing I will say that you didn't mention I that apparently in the new continuity Tim Drake was never Robin and instead was always Red Robin.

Good episode. I'm always amazed how quick 5 minutes pass by when watching your show. I look forward to next weeks episode.

Batgirl next week? Or is there not enough to work with?

Well, that was interesting.

Even though I already read about all the Robins in TV Tropes, this episode mentioned a bunch of stuff I didn't knew. So thanks, Bob.

Bob, if you're looking for a sidekick this is a poor way to advertise the position - I don't want to die.

I do have one small Batman related question is Terry McGinnis canon as Bruce's son in the Batman universe or is he just his son as far as the cartoon goes.
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Azurian:
I do have one small Batman related question is Terry McGinnis canon as Bruce's son in the Batman universe or is he just his son as far as the cartoon goes.
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Cartoon and some comics I think, to quote BOB:

TV AND COMICS ARE WIERD

Good episode Bob
But what about Carrie Kelly? I know see's not really canon but come on she was the first girl Robin. Having said that she was kinda ruined (alone with Dick Grayson) in DK2 when the true depths of Frank Millers madness began to show.

Azurian:
I do have one small Batman related question is Terry McGinnis canon as Bruce's son in the Batman universe or is he just his son as far as the cartoon goes.

He wasn't his son, just an adopted father figure.

http://batman.wikia.com/wiki/Batman_(Terry_McGinnis)#Bruce_Wayne

I forget if Bob has addressed the subject of Wonder Girl / Diana Troy, which is probably worth an episode or two all to her own. Specifically, the original Wonder Girl put into the teen titans never actually existed in the first place, and they've been backpedaling to explain her for decades now.

Also, on the subject of the Robins... they make for excellent matryoshka dolls. http://www.shortpacked.com/2011/comic/book-13/04-remedial-adulthood/inventory-3/

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DVS BSTrD:
Batgirl next week? Or is there not enough to work with?

I don't doubt that there is, but it would just become a bit of a sour mess considering the downright horrible quality of the current Batgirl run.

One thing I did notice here is that DC, more often than not, will take note of sustained fan reaction to a given storyline over time and act accordingly. So perhaps characters like Stephine Brown and Cassaundra Cain aren't going to be lost and gone forever in this new continuity.

Nobody stays dead in comics, except Jason To-... oh.

Well, except for Bucky... DAMMIT!

Nobody stays dead in comic, excepts for Uncle Ben.

... except on Earth 616...

I always liked Stephanie Brown as Robin, since I thought she was an interesting character, what with trying to intercept her dad's crimes. The whole Batman firing her thing was, I think, pretty stupid.

The vote for whether or not Jason Todd died, if I recall correctly wasn't it supposed to be like REALLY close, like it was less than 100 votes difference for life or death for him? That's just what I heard, I dunno if it's true.

Anyway, I would say Tim is probably my favorite of the Robins. I was actually reading his Red Robin series for a while, and I think that's the only on-going Batman series I've ever really picked up.

Though now that John Layman is gonna be writing Detective Comics I may have to look into that...

Nevertheless, I still think Batman is better without the kid sidekick.

DVS BSTrD:
Batgirl next week? Or is there not enough to work with?

Please no. I would like to see it eventually, but there's been a lot of Batman recently. If we're sticking with comics, I'd at least like to see a new Marvel episode to balance it out.

Genuine Evil:
The comic book industry really needs to stop revamping continuity every time a fan cry's .

It's not so much every time a fan cries, but often when a new writer takes over a title and either wants to put his own mark on the book, or just dislikes some aspect of the previous continuity. On one hand the editors (when they stay the same) need to crack down on the writers and not let them make frivolous changes which are likely to be undone by the next writer, but they also need to recognize when a change will work and be embraced as the new status quo. It's a delicate balancing act.

Azurian:
I do have one small Batman related question is Terry McGinnis canon as Bruce's son in the Batman universe or is he just his son as far as the cartoon goes.
image

Timmverse only as it's only references to the original Batman were to the animated series.

That said, considering how much DC LOOOVES it's messy reboots, it could become official canon at some point, especially with Barbara becoming Batgirl again as opposed to Oracle.

EDIT: Now see, this is why I stay away from the comics. They have to explain every rewrite and it just becomes a bigger and bigger mess.

Yup I already know this as I read up on each of them Robin's ages ago (and reading others like Superman Prime) but I kind of suprise how you were able to list the main ones (e.g. that non canon girl Robin from The Dark Knight Return novel)in around 5 minutes!

Comic books get messy when they adapt their content to other media. Batman Under the Red Hood gives a simplified story of Todd story. To keep it simple, nothing animated is cannon until become cannon. Earth 12 (animated) has it own continuity that is the series in itself.

PS: I might be wrong about the number, but it goes like this. What happened in the JLA Series or Justice League as it is known outside of USA, only exist in the series universe.

Strain42:
The vote for whether or not Jason Todd died, if I recall correctly wasn't it supposed to be like REALLY close, like it was less than 100 votes difference for life or death for him? That's just what I heard, I dunno if it's true.

Anyway, I would say Tim is probably my favorite of the Robins. I was actually reading his Red Robin series for a while, and I think that's the only on-going Batman series I've ever really picked up.

Though now that John Layman is gonna be writing Detective Comics I may have to look into that...

It was incredibly close. The difference was within 100 votes, like you said. Its entirely possible that the difference got made up of dbags who just voted to kill him off just to see if DC would do it.

Fuckers, all of the people who did that. Jason Todd was amazin and while Dick holds a special place in my heart for his place in the Titans, Jason will always be the best in my mind. The problem was the writers seemed to absolutely hate him after Death in the Family. When he came back as the Red Hood it was a great read. This was Batmans failure and showed exactly why its a feckin retarded idea to take children and make them see the worst that humanity has to offer day in and day out. Jason was Batmans greatest failure as a person, as a hero, and as a "father."

But then DC was like "Wait! Batman can't fail!" and fucked up the whole thing by continually retconning the story so that Jason was actually kind of a failure anyway. Then they made him more inept. Then they made him more bloodthirsty. Then they made him even more retarded all to try and say "See! It wasn't Batmans fault! Jason was already destined to fuck up and die." Except it doesnt even make any fuckin sense because it makes Batman look even more like a retard for ever takin Jason under his wing.

Slightly related. Yall wanna see the best animated DC movie which also happens to feature the best Robin ever? Watch Under the Red Hood. Friggin love it.

Gotta love it, and now I want to go watch Under the Red Hood.

"Well it's been fun...Well, maybe more fun for me, I'm just guessing since you're being awfully quiet."

Oh Batman. Can't have a lady sidekick or people might stop thinking he's gay. Or people might start thinking that girls can do things.

Good stuff to know. So, what about the short lived sidekicks of batmans come and gone and yet to come? Like Carrie Kelly, from The Dark Knight Returns (though, I could do without the catsuit of The Dark Knight Strikes Again). Is there an episode on them, or is that coming later?

DVS BSTrD:
Batgirl next week? Or is there not enough to work with?

Material wise there's plenty to work with since off the top of my head there were at least 4 Batgirls, and most of them had plenty of interesting stories to tell.

Sort of on that topic I always thought Stephanie Brown wasn't that bad of a Robin. Yes she did screw up which led to Batman firing her but all the Robins screw up every now and then, so imo it was a little unfair. But I'm guessing it had to be done due to editorial mandate because DC wanted Tim back as Robin, so not really all that big of a deal.

ManupBatman:

Azurian:
I do have one small Batman related question is Terry McGinnis canon as Bruce's son in the Batman universe or is he just his son as far as the cartoon goes.

He wasn't his son, just an adopted father figure.

Actually I'm pretty sure he is, something about shadowy government types using nanobots or something to rejigger Terry's dad's reproductive DNA to be identical to Bruce Wayne's (really) in an attempt to create a new Batman. So Terry is kinda Bruce's son biologically.

Vault Citizen:
I liked that you used a very recent picture of the four Robins together, it helps keep the show feel up to date. One thing I will say that you didn't mention I that apparently in the new continuity Tim Drake was never Robin and instead was always Red Robin.

God that was a stupid retcon. I feel like this is going to be one of those occassions were the fans just go "NOPE" to a creator and ignore it, a "Death of the Author" situation ala that one X-Men story were Nightcrawler's dad was really a mutant-demon-guy and it defeated the whole original point of Nightcrawler.
It's just so stupid and it confuses me. Was Tim Drake ever Batman's sidekick now? Was he just sidekicking as Red Robin? I get that they're trying to streamline everything now for their whole 5 year timeline thing, another stupid idea in my opinion especially when applied to the Batman franchise, but Tim Drake is one of the better know Robins, like Bob said. If they were going to get rid of a Robin the could have done worse than getting rid of Damian Wayne, who is really only interesting and likable when cast as the Robin to Dick Grayson's Batman. But that would mean derailing Grant Morrison's whole Bat-God cycle and DC won't do that. Sadly.

Oh yeah, and uh, Bob, good episode.

I'm in the Tim Drake camp on this one. Being a Batman:TAS child of the 90's, seeing what became of him in the animated universe during "Return of the Joker", cemented him as THE Robin in my book. Not saying I don't like the other Robins but come on.... that series/movie was fucking awesome.

skylog:
I always liked Stephanie Brown as Robin, since I thought she was an interesting character, what with trying to intercept her dad's crimes. The whole Batman firing her thing was, I think, pretty stupid.

It is worse than that; you can read on DC Women Kicking Ass that they never planned on letting her stay as Robin, and in fact don't count her as one, saying it was "just a trial". Basically they only used Steph as Robin to set up the War Games story.

Basically what I got from all these comic book episodes is that it is impossible to make the slightest of a change without fans flipping their lids and demanding the status quo, with the writers more often than not caving in and validating the next outburst.

It's one of the reasons I never got into comic books. With characters like Spiderman, Superman, Batman etc you know that they cannot die or have anyone they care for who has been with them since origin die while those new characters or character-altering story arcs are expendable. How are you supposed to get involved with the character when any and all meaningful actions and reactions can be and frequently are erased at the drop of a hat?

We need flowcharts for these episodes !! :D Brain hurt...

You want to know what the really scary thing is? I somehow allready knew most of that allready, despite only following the comics on again-off again.

So.... one Robin got killed after being tortured by *the joker*. The reason for this was *fans let him to die after DC asked them*. (Fans loved it)
Another Robin got killed after being tortured by "the black mask*. The reason for this was *died of torture but could've been saved by somebody when the choice was presented*. (Fans hated it).

After this *sort of* irony, I can safely assume that the gaming community is not the only weird community in geek culture.

So, can the next few episodes focus on something not related to comics? Maybe something about Chuck Cunningham disappearing?

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