The Big Picture: You Are Wrong About Sucker Punch, Part One

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You Are Wrong About Sucker Punch, Part One

MovieBob delivers a Sucker Punch to your senses.

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Oh, i enjoyed Sucker Punch. Well, at least the Directors Cut. The normal cut lacked one vital and one pretty cool part. I know what Sucker Punch was trying to do and i appreciate it... but it lacked in dialogue and characterisation. People calling it misogynist though are just not getting it.

Hehe, I see you put in that Tarot comicbook as the example for comicbook about women.
Yeah I didn't like the film either and while I did get that the males were portray as the villian (well except for the one given their objective) but I didn't think it like that!

It's funny I never saw Suckerpunch nor did I really have an urge to go see it even after seeing your review when it came out. Kind of an interesting analysis and it's amazing how much tex avery you were able to work in this video.

lolz you sure told them!

fun fact, I never saw the movie...

:P

I really REALLY want to see this movie, if only because I have never heard such wildly divergent criticisms and explanations of a film's plot, characters and themes ever.

I have to be honest. I only watched the movie for 3 reasons:
1. "babydoll" is fucking hot.
2. Schoolgirl outfit? hawt
3. hot chick in schoolgirl outfit fighting with a katana.

Although I would imagine the majority watched it for these reasons

I got it, but still hated it, my issues with the movie is the acting and the drawn out dull action sequences. Actually im not really sure that i enjoyed anything about this movie, except for parts of the soundtrack. Just plain bad, though not quite as bad as its reputation.

I personally think that Zack Znyder should stay away from writing scripts and keep doing what hes good at: adaptations.

I feel like I 'get' this film mostly because I have been in abusive relationships with men and have used my imagination (and games) as a form of escapism. This film could have been taken from inside my head... I have real life parallels for both the step father and the doctor/brothel owner guy, unfortunately.

You are so right about this Bob, don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

This film made me cry, I'm not sure how many people it had that effect on.

Sucker Punch is an interesting movie that I really quite enjoyed. It was far from perfect, but I found the message quite clear. In that sense, I sort of found it to be like Inception. Everyone was going on and on about how Inception confused them or was so complicated, but I found if you actually watched the movie it made perfect sense. Sucker Punch is very obvious in it's intent if you actually sit down and watch it. Now, whether you like or agree with that message or the way it's delivered is totally up to you, but the message itself is clear.

PsychedelicDiamond:
Oh, i enjoyed Sucker Punch. Well, at least the Directors Cut. The normal cut lacked one vital and one pretty cool part. I know what Sucker Punch was trying to do and i appreciate it... but it lacked in dialogue and characterisation. People calling it misogynist though are just not getting it.

I have seen the movie a couple of times, but not the director's cut. Any chance you can spoil the additional material for me either here (perhaps in Spoiler tags) or by PM?

Yeah, my problem with Sucker Punch wasn't with it being "misogynistic".
It's that it was so schizophrenic nothing seemed significant.

My main problem with this movie is that the action scenes aren't integrated well into the movie. The movie makes its artistic statement reasonably well, but the action scenes feel completely pointless and tacked on because there is no reason for them to be there in the plot of the movie. The action scenes cut away from the characters and plot to essentially go 'whee explosions' for a few minutes so that it can make its artistic statement.

I also think that people didn't like it because it wasn't what they wanted it to be. The movie was very unconventional in many ways, especially its ending, but it looks and was marketed like a standard action flick. People wanted and expected it to be this big eye-candy action extravaganza, but it wasn't.

I completely agree that calling Sucker Punch misogynist is basically saying, "Women can never wear skimpy outfits or be protrayed as being victimized," so it's not misgynist.

I disagree with everything else you said. Remember that film "The Room" by Tommy Wiseau? After it premiered and absolutely tanked, he came out and said it was a black comedic farce intended to suck to make you laugh. I simply don't grant that. I have no room in my head or my moviegoing experience for a director to come out after, or even before, the fact and say, "You're watching it wrongly." If the film itself can't prove to me that that is "what it's about" then the film failed and not my inquisitive moviegoing brain. Seriously, just how does a striptease parallel to shooting Nazi zombies? Furthermore, why am I supposed to believe it's a good plot device that a pubescent dancer is so great at sexy dancing that it literally stuns the men who see it? Then you've got the pretty aritrary death of two of the main five female characters, which has nothing to with subtext and is just a lazy way to whittle down the protagonists because this is the kind of story where only one person is allowed to survive. Besides, what does it mean for a person to lambast sleazy moviegoing audiences while delivering to them a sleazy movie? that's like a vegan serving hamburgers to his guests and then retreat back to the kitchen to scorn them. No thanks to that kind of self-unaware pretention.

It's not just that Sucker Punch doesn't get to say, "No, we're LAMBASTING that stupid stuff instead of glorifying it," it's that it doesn't serve up a good movie on any basis. The plot is like something out of an 8-bit video game, the characters are as deep as their monikers, and the events do pretty much nothing to make you care about anyone except by saying, "Hey, they're in a crappy asylum and people are abusing and killing them. Be invested." Sucker Punch just didn't work, on any level.

But yeah, it's not misogynist.

As I'm one of the people who saw the movie,It is full of shit.I still loath this fucking movie. Awful script. Boring action piece and insulting its audience for getting what they wanted. Sucker Punch is the worst kind of movie: A movie that think it is so cleaver. When it is not. Everything about it is pointless! That we hear how "good" of a dancer Baby doll is when we don't see it a fatal mistake. It is called SHOW don't tell. I don't give two fucks how good of a dancer she is, if I don't see it.

Finally, someone is actually taking a worthwhile look at this film instead of just dismissing it as sexist pandering. I really liked this film myself.

I never really found the film misogynistic. I never felt like the movie was trying to make me look at the girls as sexually appealing, despite their costumes. They were just a side effect of the world the film was set in. The whole criticism of how the film is supposed to be dressing up soft porn as "empowerment" seemed so forced to me. It didn't feel like either of those. Maybe people just threw that criticism at the film because that's what people usually say about films that look like this. They didn't bother to look closer, or simply accept that there might be narrative reasons why the girls are dressed as they are, and not just to titillate the audience.

But the metaphor of the strip-tease and the action scenes and how that relates to the viewer sounds really interesting. It makes a whole lot of sense. I always had a feeling there was more going on in that film that it was letting on. The layers of fantasy weren't just Inception-esque plot devices to allow them to change scenery, they had meaning to them. I kind of got that the action scenes were analogous to the strip-tease, but adding the viewer in to the metaphor is genius. I never thought of that myself, but it makes perfect sense.

Didn't watch the movie for more than 5 minutes. Space folded into itself and the Lord of Disappointing Chocolate-chip Cookies barked at me from beyond the edge of existence to stop watching this thing because I'm already super bored, disinterested and somehow vaguely annoyed. What was I to do?
(just wanted to get that out here before I watch Bob's video)
(fucking why is my eye hurting fuck gotta see doctor)

i DESPISE this film. Sure, there's the condemnation, but there's also a lack of positive icons that can be used to bolster the "satire" element.

My biggest problem, though? The opening scene nearly triggered me. The abusive stepdad? There's obvious cues that the daughters were abused, going to the point of sexual when the shooting occurs, and sexual abuse going to an escapist fantasy that involves being sexually objectified and feasibly abused more? That's ridiculous.

Then there is the point that the film, regardless of whatever lofty goals it might have had, revels in the very thing it is attempting to satirize. i mean, for cripes sake, you don't even find out any of the names of the women! AKA a very humanizing element, and something that could have cemented, even if held as a reveal for the end.

Wow. That's heavy. I can't wait to see more.

Say, does this mean I should feel bad or good about not wanting to see it when it came out?

So, if Sucker Punch was unsuccessful in conveying its satire of pandering male nerd fantasy cynically pretending to be somehow feminist by making its fetish dolls into action heroes, what does distinguish it from pandering male nerd fantasy cynically pretending to be somehow feminist by making its fetish dolls into action heroes?

Not much. Really.

That's the thing with satirical condemnation, if you aren't very clever, like Zack Snyder, you end up straight up making the thing you were condemning.

eh, I watched it, liked it
I just thought it was entertaining, lots of action and hot chicks. Some steampunk and other sci-fi thrown in, plus a dragon.
What's not to like?

I'm sorry, Bob, but I still won't watch this film. These guys' views on movies tend to mean more to me than yours (no offense):




This is rather funny to me.

I didn't get it at all (if you are in fact correct), and I still enjoyed the hell out of it.

So yeah. I'm that slobbering nerd watching the cute girls in skimpy outfits dance. And it really doesn't bother me. At all.

They can point it out, but they can't really criticize it when they are the ones providing the entertainment to matter how much it's just to rob me.

By walking into the theater, I said, "Yes. You get to have my money. In return, you all put on hot clothes and kill things with swords."

A deals a deal.

Still, interesting episode. It isn't often Bob and I like a movie together.

Moonlight Butterfly:
I feel like I 'get' this film mostly because I have been in abusive relationships with men and have used my imagination (and games) as a form of escapism. This film could have been taken from inside my head... I have real life parallels for both the step father and the doctor/brothel owner guy, unfortunately.

You are so right about this Bob, don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

This film made me cry, I'm not sure how many people it had that effect on.

Quote because this was exactly what I was going to say.

OT: And this, Bob, is why you're one of the few critics I trust.

jaymiechan:
i DESPISE this film. Sure, there's the condemnation, but there's also a lack of positive icons that can be used to bolster the "satire" element.

This is almost always the problem. The problem isn't that there are bad portrayals of female characters, the problem is that there are few to no good ones. It's worth reading This blog post about the female characters of Blake's 7, and why they were a good example of female characters in fiction.

Moonlight Butterfly:
I feel like I 'get' this film mostly because I have been in abusive relationships with men and have used my imagination (and games) as a form of escapism. This film could have been taken from inside my head... I have real life parallels for both the step father and the doctor/brothel owner guy, unfortunately.

You are so right about this Bob, don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

This film made me cry, I'm not sure how many people it had that effect on.

I'm not capable of directly sympathising with your situation but I can tell you your not the only person that reacted to it that way I know someone who took it almost exactly like you did.

Sucker Punch wanted to have it's cake and eat it, and then through it up all over the audience.

Everybody got this movie, I don't see how anyone couldn't, however some people liked what they got and others fucking hated it.

I have no problem with anyone liking this film, but saying people didn't like it because they didn't "get it", makes my skin crawl.

Plus, it's just a fucking terrible looking movie, with horrendously fake CGI, wooden acting performances, bastardized versions of classic songs, shitty fight scenes that go on forever (that train sequence, Jesus Christ), Bjork, a villain with no motivation other than "women, argh", and oversaturized colours.

Actually, the movie portrays a form of misandry. As in, y'know, the opposite of misogyny. The hatred of men, specifically. Only I won't brandish any kind of heated, reactionary "Feminists are bullshit!" argument, because Bob's right. The movie explicitly criticizes those types of men who watch movies like these for the sake of gawking at Fantasy bras and panty shots disguised as heroic epics centered around the tired old trope of the Strong Independent Woman.

Sucker Punch was a great movie, but its own visual aesthetic kind of plays against its own established goals. I know a lot of folks who watched it precisely for the sake of watching Abby Cornish in supertight miniskirts swinging swords around n' shit. It's hard to have an intelligent discourse on it when the only arguments you hear in its favour for the first few weeks after its release are variations on "Hells yeah, the girls are fuckin' HAWT!"

I think Zach Snyder seems to be interested in playing in the big blockbuster playpen for the sake of telling involving stories or exploring interesting facets of our nature; but he more or less keeps running into a more serious version of Christopher Nolan's own problems.

Nolan's movies are cerebral, calculative and some would say very "distinguished alpha male"-oriented affairs. They're "The Expendables" for guys who enjoy digging into characters, concepts and narrative tools. The problem is that in some cases, the whiz-bangs, pew-pews and chop-socky sequences are seen by some as being the only real reason to watch these flicks.

Let's be honest for a sec. People watched Memento because of the story and how anteriograde amnesia can act as a quirky narrative device. On the other hand, people watched The Dark Knight Rises because a) it's a Batman flick b) it's a summer action blockbuster and c) Anne Hathaway in a catsuit.

Yes, I'm sure a lot of us watched TDKR because we actually cared about the plot, but come on. Think back to how teens and preteens consider Batman. Batman isn't cool because he's conflicted and troubled or because he's a modern-day example of the classic tragic figure of the man burdened by Fate - Batman's cool because he's got gadgets and Kung Fu and awesome villains and crap!

It took a while before I could really appreciate the Paul Dini Batman series. Not because I didn't earlier, but because I couldn't pick it apart and analyze it quite well as I can now. The same applies with Sucker Punch. The hormones need to cool down, you need to condition yourself to look past the boobage, and then you'll find a pretty daring little piece of art waiting for you.

Captcha: om nom nom
Yeah, I guess I should have breakfast at some point. We're a half-hour past noon.

3:14 - now kiss...

4:20 - joke on them. I didn't spend a penny on watching this film :P
Also: since You advertise this movie as worth watching does it means that You, Moviebob, is a pimp?

I liked this movie overall, but my biggest problem with it was the ending.

I saw Suckerpunch several times after I bought it on Blu-Ray (it went out of movietheatres very quickly in my country, so I missed it there), and I really enjoyed it.

I got the fantasy within the fantasy, but not for one moment did any thought of feminism, opressed and stereotypical females and audience mocking come to my moment. My girlfriend watched this movie with me, she missed the message as well.

For a movie that is supposed to carry over this message, it really sucks at doing so. And perhaps that is it's major flaw.

Saw the movie, thought it was pretty good, but far too depressing at points, and as such will never watch it again.

If a movie criticises the people watching it because of what these people like then it's obviously going to do badly. Similarly if the point of a movie is difficult to understand then this is the fault of the director, not the audience.

The problem with this movie is that any point it tries to make is lost due to all the fantasy images it contains. Women fighting against armies using magical weapons is not a good metaphor for women who make their living by stripping, which itself is a metaphor for being in a mental hospital. The movie doesn't know what it wants to be so it ends up being a convoluted mess.

This movie could have easily criticised the flaws with women in fantasy combat by sending a normal woman into one of these fantasy worlds and have her point out all the flaws, such as wearing armour that barely covers you. This way the director could still have all their fantasy nonsense while making a clear point.

Combine Rustler:
Didn't watch the movie for more than 5 minutes. Space folded into itself and the Lord of Disappointing Chocolate-chip Cookies barked at me from beyond the edge of existence to stop watching this thing because I'm already super bored, disinterested and somehow vaguely annoyed. What was I to do?
(just wanted to get that out here before I watch Bob's video)
(fucking why is my eye hurting fuck gotta see doctor)

How can you hate a movie after 5 minutes. I get that you can hate the 5 minutes and the themes involved therein, but how can you hate the whole movie. I know people who got physically ill at the first 10 minutes of Saving Private Ryan. You know what they did, they walked out, got ahold of themselves and then went back in to watch the movie.

If you didn't watch more then 5 minutes of any movie then I don't know how you can say you hate the moive. You can hate the first 5 min but not the work as a whole.

OT: I liked this movie when it came out. I don't know that I was looking for depth or sadness but that was what I saw. Sometimes you can know there is something more to a film even if you don't "get it". I may not have thuroughly understood the movie but I understood there was something more to it then chick in school girl outfit and guns.

I appreciate BOB giving a rundown and I am curious to see where this ends up.

That's a good theory but I loved it for its face value. I already knew I'm a perv.

obedai:
My main problem with this movie is that the action scenes aren't integrated well into the movie. The movie makes its artistic statement reasonably well, but the action scenes feel completely pointless and tacked on because there is no reason for them to be there in the plot of the movie. The action scenes cut away from the characters and plot to essentially go 'whee explosions' for a few minutes so that it can make its artistic statement.

Really. go look up Schizophrenia (not on Wikipedia, but in DSM).

so by them inter-splicing the action scenes as tacked-on they are simply depicting a schizophrenic episode, and it actually serves the point of seeing the events through the eyes of a schizophrenic, and with that being the plot those inter-splices are the point. then that is used to prove the sucker punch aspect. So yah that actually makes it work on a higher level.

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