Jimquisition: Anita Sarkeesian - The Monster Gamers Created

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Anita Sarkeesian - The Monster Gamers Created

Angry gamers have been to Anita Sarkeesian (and gaming feminism in general) what DRM has been to piracy. Attempts to kill a thing have only made it stronger.

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I guess people just got tired of making fat jokes in the 90s and early 00's and moved back to females. Be thankful. :)

Also thanks for reviving this; we almost went a week without hearing about that nutter.

Now I want to make a game for punching Resistance 3 in the face.

before anyone says it. just because she "supposedly" went to 4chan, or maybe someone who knee jerked at her video did (more likely).

doesn't mean that she deserved the stupidity that resulted.

I... I wish I could add anything to this, but... I can't.
This is exactly how it is. She's now right by default unless you get a woman to fight for your side, just because guys can't get rid of the sexist stigmata the gaming community (or rather, it's retarded siamese twin brother that we can't cut off) gave us.

And it's a damn shame because I don't think I'll agree with many things she proposes (is she seriously using Bastion as example for sexism in games?) and I'd love to see a discussion unfold in this regard.

But I have a penis and thus can only stand on the sidelines because the DICKS have ruined it for all of us. Screw you, internet tough guys, you should be forced to play farmville and nothing else until the day you shed your mortal coil >:C

You know what's the sad thing about the whole "sexism in gaming" debate?

That it's the year 2012. We should have sorted out issues like that ten years ago and we still haven't. We chose to ignore it and now that some people have started to protest we try our hardest to shut them up because, you know, it's not like anyone wants to get out of his way to solve problems instead of just waiting till everyone forgets about them. No, women shouldn't be portrayed in games like they are now for a pretty big part and we all should be able to see this. Stubbornly saying "there is no problem" doesn't help anyone.

Saw an article about her kickstarter on Rock,Paper,Shotgun,saw it,watched her video...Wasn't impressed,but I thought I'd give her a chance.Then I read one of the comments on it and agreed that it wasn't worth listening to her.So I just put it away and never looked back.

And now this...Ugh... -_- sometimes I lose faith in humanity.Can ya blame me?

Yeah, this sounds about right. Hell, I even uttered "Who"? When I saw the twitter post for this video.

I'm on here everyday, and this is the first time I've heard about Anita. On one hand I feel like I'm missing out, on the other, I'm really, really glad I'm missing out...

Jim,
What's the game at 5:00?

I'm fed up of taking part in gender politics discussions on the internet because since I am a man, according to a few female feminists I shouldn't have opinion on the matter.
Like -wtf? Gender politics affect both genders.

But yeah, OT the trolls got trolled.

And back off topic, I choose to let other people discuss because apparently as an example the fact I wanted to play Netball when I was 8 but stopped due to people taking the piss out of me, means nothing.

And don't say 'you can play Basketball'. It's like saying to someone who isn't 'allowed' to play Squash because of their gender that they should play Tennis.

Says a lot that I don't know her name. Only her kick-starter project. That's right. Her ideas are more noticeable than herself as a person.

jokulhaups:
Jim,
What's the game at 5:00?

Gravity Rush; PS Vita

Pretty much this in spades. I knew about Anita a long time before this debacle (gender theory being a hobby of mine) and I was consistently disappointed with her selfish brand of feminism (by that I mean she's actually said that it's okay for movies to have female antagonists "occasionally," as if women deserve to be so well-portrayed in the media that the idea that a woman could be a criminal or other bad person should itself be a novel thought). I was sure she was going to do the same thing she's always done with this new batch of videos, essentially saying that negative portrayals of women by and large shouldn't exist in video games for some inadequate reason like, "Because there are currently a disproportionate number of negative protrayals!"

What should have happened is this: the gaming community (the part of it that doesn't buy into her brand of feminism, which we can see is pretty huge) should have waited for the videos to come out and engaged in a mass CRITIQUING of the flaws in her logic and the narcissistic "I deserve to have my gender always portrayed fairly and positively" rhetoric she usually employs. Just imagine if every major gaming website or blog had a rational and nuanced look at her thought process and was able to point out a few good bits among the overall flawed argument. How great would that have made the gaming community look? How well would our point have been made? How many people might we have actually convinced that the selfish style of feminism is a bad idea? Not that I'm surprised it went the way it did, of course.

Maybe there's still time. It won't have the same degree of effectiveness, but my idea could still happen post-this crapstorm. I'd love to see it happen, and since she has indeed become a major news story, we can be sure there will be a lot of critiques of her first video.

I have nothing against her as a person, and she actually seems like someone I could have an enjoyable conversation with (except for when she's telling men the correct reason to dislike Twilight, complete with a "say it with me" section, or being so offended by a Kanye video she won't show any of it but will condemn it). I simply think her approach to gender relations is asking a lot from a world that owes her nothing (as it owes no one anything). Like Jim said, letting her hang herself (FIGURATIVELY, of course) would have been the best option. Oh well.

The one where she tells you how to feel about Twilight, complete with the bouncing ball: http://www.feministfrequency.com/2009/11/the-real-reason-guys-should-hate-twilight/

The one where women should only occasionally be antagonists (around 6:05): http://www.feministfrequency.com/2011/05/tropes-vs-women-4-the-evil-demon-seductress/

The one where she admits not even getting through all of Kanye West's "Monster" and then proceeds to condemn it: http://www.feministfrequency.com/2011/01/kanye-wests-monster-misogyny/

I avoided all those threads for the exact reason Jim was talking about. I didn't even know the issue until this video. Now I did notice in the escapist there were about 200 sexism topics but since I knew how those threads turned out I just ignored them. Even after watching this video I will continue to ignore whatever her name was projects (I really forgot already) because as a gamer they just don't interest me.

P.S. The ending was classic jim. Good job.

CrossLOPER:
I guess people just got tired of making fat jokes in the 90s and early 00's and moved back to females. Be thankful. :)

Also thanks for reviving this; we almost went a week without hearing about that nutter.

No. No we didn't. http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.387184-So-how-about-that-wacky-Sarkeesian-lady

Also well I often agree with points that Jim makes this is the first time that I agree. Thank the internet for Jim.

I mean he is so right. If we just let her do her thing without attacking her we could have gotten some decent videos and discussion on sexism in gaming (which no one can deny does exist in gaming and other forums of popular media) and maybe thats it. Now we are going to watch something that is not going to be able to live up to but when it fails the backlash will be spectacular. Also I'm tired of people calling her a scammer. She didn't ask for all the money she recived. She just wanted a small amount ($6000 is a small amount in the long scheme of things and easily covered by the audience she had when she started the Kickstarter).

I will admit I do hope she manages to pull this thing off well because it would be nice to have a good set of videos on this and some hopefully some developers take notice and take steps to try and help create well written female characters. (A good hint would to find some good female writers. I mean who has more experience about being a woman than a woman. Same things go for different racial people. Black writing black etc. )

You're right Jim, but I think that the points you talked about were all kind of old news. It was all obvious from the point when Anita decided to flaunt all those threats to gain more support. Now it's about her ignoring legitimate criticisms and making other people do her work for her. You're right in the reasons why she's ignoring the more valid and intelligent criticisms levelled against her, but that doesn't mean that they shouldn't be talked about. It doesn't really matter if she replies to them or not, if they gain enough traction then people will pay attention. But I fear it's all too late any way. She's trolled the entire internet and got away with it.

I sense the trolls will soon descend on this thread en masse...

OT: Yes, as much merit as there is to discuss sexism in gaming (and all media in general really), she does seem to have a bit of a trollish nature to what she is doing. Of course, no matter how much trolling there is, the insane and sadistic amount of vitriol she's been getting over the very idea of exploring sexism in gaming is just plain pathetic. Even in the ridiculously rare event gaming companies actually agree with her and expunge all new releases of sexism, does that actually make the game worse? I'm pretty sure everything would be fine.

DVS BSTrD:
Now I want to make a game for punching Resistance 3 in the face.

And now I want to play that game, repeatedly.

Y'know, there's still time. There's still time to not give a shit. Sure, sexism exists in games, but you know, if you just want to get angry about her, or get others angry about her, why don't you just stop posting? It's pointless to try and "bring to light" what she says in order to stop her, no matter how much people disagree with her opinions. I don't care what she says. I have disagreed with her on quite a few of her points and it is clear that she and I are not on the same mindset, hence I don't care what she says. I don't hate her though, I hate the gamers who constantly bring every accusation to the spotlight in an attempt to get people angry at her, as if they are trying to drum up an angry army where so much concentrated anger would, so they believe, make this person stop. It won't.

If you truly want Anita to stop, just don't look. Simple stuff.

Never heard of her until this video. lol. End of the day, gaming is for everybody. Its a hobby that anyone can play. Yes some games are geared more to men than woman, and vice versa. Same way with movies, there are movies aimed at men and movies aimed at woman or kids or whatever. End of the day, death threats and rape threats are disgusting and just proves her right. Yes gaming may have more to go to be equal. But then most games are about killing things for points or to kill stuff to remove an obstacle from your path to proceed. This has gone far back as Space Invaders. But atleast now, with graphics and computer power, we can have real story and emotion while we kill stuff and progress in the game. Something lacking in old games.

But from what i know of my years of gaming all the way back to the Atari, there are games for everyone. Puzzle, story, strategy or fps. Ok, you may not have as many of your style made into games. But you have choice. An maybe you need to change from 360 to Wii or DS or whatever to get the most out of your chosen style of game.

End of the day. 99% of men know girls play games. Hell most of us have sisters that loved playing WonderBoy and Centipede. But most of this problem is certain teens boys thinking more female involvement will ruin there "manly" games. Which is pathetic. If anything more female involvement might give us more reason to play through a game for emotional reasons. Like Ico, i have no idea if any woman were involved in that. But helping that girl in the game was better sense of achievement than killing millions of enemies and bombs. Maybe its an age thing? As i suspect the people bitching are lame ass teenagers.

Thank god! Someone who gets the Frankenstein myth right! The monster isn't called Frankenstein, it's the creator that's called that.

*ahem*

OT: that video's all well and good Jim, but what practical use is it? I'm sure, with the benefit of hindsight, it's easy to say "if you hadn't been so stupid, you wouldn't have gotten into this shitstorm", but it's too late to do anything about it at this point. I mean, it's handy to point out why it happened so it doesn't happen again, but a little practical advice on what people should do in our current situation was sorely lacking from that video.

why was there video of persona 3 in there?

Well, yeah.

Sometimes the loudest people "on your side" do far more damage than the most erudite people on the opposite side. (Not to say that I particularly identify with either side of this one, in part because, well, the voices that have made themselves most prominent on either side tend to be the ones I least want to identify with.)

One can't help but wonder what the people who actually make games are taking away from the debacle, though.

I've pretty much stayed out of this.

Personally, I think she's going to fail...and fail hard.

When she does, it'll be HOW she treats that failure that shows her TRUE colors.

If she play the 'O, I'm just a girl...VICTIM-VICTIM-VICTIM is me'.
-Well, then, I'll laugh my ass off as she ends up looking as stupid and backwards as a black dude waving the Confederate Flag.

IF she goes the whole 'hey, I bit off more then I could chew and I may have bonked up'.
-Well, then, she'll look a hell of a lot more mature then most folks on this site.

DVS BSTrD:
Now I want to make a game for punching Resistance 3 in the face.

I'd weigh up that the game is excellent against the eternal uninstalling of data. But it's a moot point, I'm not likely to uninstall it any time soon I have a good 150GB to go before I need another clear out...

OT: I ignored the entire thing until now Jim. Thanks for that.

HAH, I watched this not knowing a thing about Anita Sarkeesian, what did I find when reviewing responses on another thread about misogyny (namely Big Picture's You are Wrong About sucker Punch)? A direct link to FemenistFrequency Anita Sarkeesian's review show on youtube.

It would seem that Jim is, yet again, correct.

Thank god for Jim.

The Grim Ace:

DVS BSTrD:
Now I want to make a game for punching Resistance 3 in the face.

And now I want to play that game, repeatedly.

Same ): 8th playthrough is a-coming methinx.

Done it on the top difficulty with super/secondary enemies and now HUD yet? lol

Great Video Jim.

When Bob Chipman created "The Game Antithinker" persona, he got a lot of venom spewed his way, with people saying such a character was a gross over exaggeration, and that gamers are a higher class of people these days. We certainly didn't show that in this particular fiasco, did we? Dabbling with XBL myself, I can say Bob was being generous in his view of the more unseemly crowd gaming has to offer. The response Anita got from these people was so predictable it's sad. Being as obnoxious and loud as they are, these kinds of people are going to get more and more attention over the years, and I dare say things may actually get worse from here on, especially once onlookers start seeing all gamers like this.

Did someone say Anita Sarkeesian thread? YAY!

Scrustle:
You're right Jim, but I think that the points you talked about were all kind of old news. It was all obvious from the point when Anita decided to flaunt all those threats to gain more support. Now it's about her ignoring legitimate criticisms and making other people do her work for her. You're right in the reasons why she'e ignoring the more valid and intelligent criticisms levelled against her, but that doesn't mean that they shouldn't be talked about. It doesn't really matter if she replies to them or not, if they gain enough traction then people will pay attention. But I fear it's all too late any way. She's trolled the entire internet and got away with it.

It's the barely disguised hate and disgust in arguments like these which annoys me. You have a perfect right to dislike what she's doing, disagree with her arguments, hell, even disagree with the whole reason she's making these videos if you want to, but by using language like 'trolled the entire internet' and 'flaunt all those threats' you invalidate anything worthwhile you have to say about her. Just as Jim said in his video, if you want to debate about Anita Sarkeesian you now have to do it with such a dispassionate, level-head because to do otherwise is to throw yourself in with the angry mob the internet cooked up for her. And that's not her fault, it's all those who harrassed her. She's a victim of some of the nastiest stuff I've ever seen online, so if you want to pick her argument apart that's fine, but we need to show her some respect as well.

Jim im not saying im right or wrong on this nor do i actually give a damn what she does but ever think this all started due to her followers doing the actual attacks so she would get the publicity, after all internet = anonymity and ive heard of no arrests for the death threats so im skeptical about this like i always am about stupid crap like this

fangclaw:
why was there video of persona 3 in there?

Cause thats one of the games she's targeting. Theres also racers like NFS and Blur on her list and even LBP. Now people are going to wait for her vids to see if its worth getting her investigated for fraud(theres a lot of people that think she did this just to boost her game collection).

Personally, I wouldn't be suprised if she made some of the accounts that harrassed her so she can play victim.

Spot one in this week videos Jimmy boy. I still doesn't like her and HATE what the interwebs have made of her.

Honestly, I agree and disagree with her. I support gender equality in games, but I don't support feminism. Why? I ask you this question. So feminism is okay, but racism is bad? They're both isms, and to me that's the problem. I don't hate women, I don't put them down for playing games and in fact, if I got beaten in a game by a girl, I'd be as upset as if some guy beat me. Means they're good at the games they play and I need to work harder.

The whole death threats, over reacting thing to me just...really surprises me. Are you so threatened by someone that you can't think properly? This happens in sports when someone insults a team as well, people WAY over react and call someone who says that their team sucks, or you're wrong, and tell them to go fuck off and eat the underside of a fat man's belly crust or something. Instead of debating you argue and it makes you come across as just fucking retardedly immature. And then devalues other arguments that can be connected to you because when you're a stupid fan, people assume all fans are like you

Sexism, racism, and feminism are all words that to me, describe extremes and hates, or try to put one person on one side over the other, when equality is the word that is best used when trying to make things fair and even. I leave you with one last question. Why is feminism a growing trend that is good, but if someone supports machoism or a machoist, they're wrong? Because it's trying to pull yourself OVER someone instead of bringing people together. It's something two sides need to work together to achieve. In this case, women need to pull themselves up, and men need to help by not kicking them down. That's my take on this issue.

Good job as always Jim, a video series that didn't captivate me originally has joined my list of weekly nerd videos to watch and talk about with others...or in my case read shorter posts and occasionally ramble on...

so ... what are these games she picked that are actually proving she donno what she taking about?

I had a rough time last week. I'd bought my friends, myself, and my wife copies of Counter-strike Global Offensive. My wife had been playing Counter-strike Source with me for years so I thought this would be perfect for her. Unfortunately it couldn't be further from the truth.

CSGO has a feature new to the series. 5v5 matching making. My friends and I love it. We hop on our team and within 5 minutes were playing matches with Random people or clans. The benfit being is that theres no dicking around waiting. It's all very fast and fluid. The drawback is that it's random people.

I had forgotten that one thing which had kept Emma(my wife)coming back was that the pub we played on was heavily regulated by well meaning Admins. My wife and I are certainly foul mouthed people but in a nice "poke fun haha hug now" kinda way but immediately after she starts playing the harassment was endless and its never within reason it's always bitch, kitchen, etc etc.

She always looks to me to make it stop. In my mind I'm an equality guy. Pull your socks up and insult them back, but then I realized theres another layer to it. I invited her. It's not a sexual thing. If you invited a friend to a pub and some started picking on them the case would be any different. You're obligated to defend them. So I did and I was mean which I can be and the people bothering her left.

We did figure out you can just voteban people but it's frustrating to deal with the concept that I have to shelter my wife when gaming.

I'll never be able to understand the phenomena of people who pay to be awful to other people.

Scrustle:
You're right Jim, but I think that the points you talked about were all kind of old news. It was all obvious from the point when Anita decided to flaunt all those threats to gain more support. Now it's about her ignoring legitimate criticisms and making other people do her work for her. You're right in the reasons why she'e ignoring the more valid and intelligent criticisms levelled against her, but that doesn't mean that they shouldn't be talked about. It doesn't really matter if she replies to them or not, if they gain enough traction then people will pay attention. But I fear it's all too late any way. She's trolled the entire internet and got away with it.

It's the barely disguised hate and disgust in arguments like these which annoys me. You have a perfect right to dislike what she's doing, disagree with her arguments, hell, even disagree with the whole reason she's making these videos if you want to, but by using language like 'trolled the entire internet' and 'flaunt all those threats' you invalidate anything worthwhile you have to say about her. Just as Jim said in his video, if you want to debate about Anita Sarkeesian you now have to do it with such a dispassionate, level-head because to do otherwise is to throw yourself in with the angry mob the internet cooked up for her. And that's not her fault, it's all those who harrassed her. She's a victim of some of the nastiest stuff I've ever seen online, so if you want to pick her argument apart that's fine, but we need to show her some respect as well.[/quote]

Really? I'm being hateful? Well, whatever. Make up whatever you want. She did do those things though. I have made arguments against her which were based on the content of what she said, and never anything to do with her being a woman or the fact that she's trying to address an issue that does need addressing. I don't hate her. Nothing I've ever said has resembled anything like the disgusting bile that's been thrown her way, but she's hardly a "victim". Like Jim says, all it's done is make her stronger. But hey, if you want to strawman me to make yourself feel superior then go right ahead.

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