Jimquisition: Anita Sarkeesian - The Monster Gamers Created

 Pages PREV 1 . . . 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 . . . 21 NEXT
 

Tippy:

Falsename:
I COMPLETELY agree with Anita.

Honestly, what harm would having realistic/less sexist woman in video games do? I can only see it adding to video games, maybe even levelling out the video game community by increasing civility and less primitive persons.

You have to admit, you're ALWAYS hearing about immature video game players screaming and yelling and swearing the most disgusting things imaginable, the kind of stuff you only used to hear if you went to prison! These people may be a minority... but they're a pretty freaking loud one!

Anyway, there's a reason gamers are getting a terrible stereotype, Anita's views make a good point about how we could better ourselves, and by extension the community. Make the swearing, the rape threats and other immature acts go away, there's no real reason for it.

I'm not saying female roles in games creates these atmospheres in online (and offline) games, but it would only be a step forward for us, not a step back.

I want woman to feel accepted while playing a game, online and off. Gaming is populated by men (or boys) and it doesn't have to be, it shouldn't be such a majority vs minority.

You and Anita both have something in common - no realistic suggestions or solutions to address the issue. Only a bullet list of observations, only stuff you can point out and yell feebly "This is wrong, somebody please fix it!"

The whole Tropes vs Women topic was nothing than a drop in the ocean, Sarkeesian being nothing more than a spec of mist.
Jim correctly stated that the topic was confined to a tiny pocket on the internet, a topic that really wasn't ready and had no place under the spotlight - but thanks to the massive backlash against Sarkeesian, the whole thing got inflated into something much bigger than it should be.

Which is a good thing as far as the issue is concerned, right? Sure, for now.

But it's all in vain. As the over-inflated that Sarkeesian and her campaign have become, give it a few months/years. It will deflate, subside and be forgotten in the vast ocean of the industry (or atleast go back to the tiny corners of the internet). As long as a game developer can shout "WHO WANTS TITS?" and roughly 5 million people yell back "WE WANT TITS!" guess what you will see in video games every now and then? Tits.

While it's a justified topic of discussion, sexism in gaming is insignificant as far as most consumers are concerned. So discuss away to all your hearts' content, for all the good it will do.

Falsename:
I want to one day declare myself a gamer without the immediate response being "so, you're a 13 year old boy with anger problems".

Wow. Whoever told you that is an absolute moron and no better than a 13 year old themselves, how can you take such a thing to heart? I declare myself a proud gamer wherever I go and whoever automatically judges me as a "13 year old with anger problems" can continue to live in their cave eating raw fish.

I.... Can't tell if you're arguing against me or just summarising everything I stated. Either way, what harm could it do? Really? Sure it's a small thing compared to other issues, but I have to ask.... Why not?

Why not create more realistic and less stereotypical woman in games. I'm not saying there aren't already. But could always do with more.

Gamer stereotypes aren't pretty, I wish they were though. I'm ashamed to call myself a gamer (I also don't call myself one, not in public atleast), because of these stereotypes. Over sexualised woman in games is one of those stereotypes.

Mr_Spanky:
This is kind of my point right here though. If youre right and she is prejudiced, manipulative, ignorant, totally bound on her agenda regardless of factual accuracy and utterly disregarding of all other opinions but her own then why bother?

For exactly the same reason i would stop you from spreading misinformation about the world being flat & being the centre of the universe: Because its objectively wrong, while also being incredibly bigoted... Its the equiviliant of me walking around saying "all women are to dumb to be allowed to vote, or hold positions of power & i don't need to justify that statment because i have a penis."

A.S is making a positive decleration of intent, which she has made sure not to ever have to justify, by silencing any opposition. An that kind of thing traditionally, when left unchecked has had a tendency to become giant facist forces of discord & inequality.

Mr_Spanky:
To me its like when the god-squad comes knocking on my door. Im not going to stand there for hours telling them theyre wrong - there isnt any point. You just say "thanks but no thanks" et al and close the door.

The difference between the two is that religion is an unfalssifiable statement, A.S is not: You can to a degree of 100% show that she is objectively wrong about statements she's made & to a lesser degree concepts she holds to be self evident. An thats only to a lesser degree because to prove them false, i'd first need to be able to confirm them & that can't happen since A.S will not communicate with anyone not singing her praises.

Mr_Spanky:
Peoples actions and beliefs are not your responsibility. The way you react to them is.

Of course they are. To say they are not is like if i was walking around telling everyone black people are dirty subhumans & deserve to be executed, then when you rightly called me out on my statement being incredibly racist. Then i said "Peoples actions and beliefs are not your responsibility."

Of course peolpes actions and beliefs are my responsibility. They are also yours, mine & everyone elses: because thats the self correcting mechanism, by which humans adapt.

Mr_Spanky:
It seems to me like youre coming from the perspective of "everyone should be reasonable enough to discuss these things rationally and sensibly". They should. They arent. Thats life.

I'm sorry, but that excuse doesn't fly with me. Never has, never will. If you've got a belief system, any belief system that flies in the face of logic, to the point where you have to censor everyone elses speech, then you've given up your right to be taken seriously.

Falsename:

Tippy:

Falsename:
I COMPLETELY agree with Anita.

Honestly, what harm would having realistic/less sexist woman in video games do? I can only see it adding to video games, maybe even levelling out the video game community by increasing civility and less primitive persons.

You have to admit, you're ALWAYS hearing about immature video game players screaming and yelling and swearing the most disgusting things imaginable, the kind of stuff you only used to hear if you went to prison! These people may be a minority... but they're a pretty freaking loud one!

Anyway, there's a reason gamers are getting a terrible stereotype, Anita's views make a good point about how we could better ourselves, and by extension the community. Make the swearing, the rape threats and other immature acts go away, there's no real reason for it.

I'm not saying female roles in games creates these atmospheres in online (and offline) games, but it would only be a step forward for us, not a step back.

I want woman to feel accepted while playing a game, online and off. Gaming is populated by men (or boys) and it doesn't have to be, it shouldn't be such a majority vs minority.

You and Anita both have something in common - no realistic suggestions or solutions to address the issue. Only a bullet list of observations, only stuff you can point out and yell feebly "This is wrong, somebody please fix it!"

The whole Tropes vs Women topic was nothing than a drop in the ocean, Sarkeesian being nothing more than a spec of mist.
Jim correctly stated that the topic was confined to a tiny pocket on the internet, a topic that really wasn't ready and had no place under the spotlight - but thanks to the massive backlash against Sarkeesian, the whole thing got inflated into something much bigger than it should be.

Which is a good thing as far as the issue is concerned, right? Sure, for now.

But it's all in vain. As the over-inflated that Sarkeesian and her campaign have become, give it a few months/years. It will deflate, subside and be forgotten in the vast ocean of the industry (or atleast go back to the tiny corners of the internet). As long as a game developer can shout "WHO WANTS TITS?" and roughly 5 million people yell back "WE WANT TITS!" guess what you will see in video games every now and then? Tits.

While it's a justified topic of discussion, sexism in gaming is insignificant as far as most consumers are concerned. So discuss away to all your hearts' content, for all the good it will do.

Falsename:
I want to one day declare myself a gamer without the immediate response being "so, you're a 13 year old boy with anger problems".

Wow. Whoever told you that is an absolute moron and no better than a 13 year old themselves, how can you take such a thing to heart? I declare myself a proud gamer wherever I go and whoever automatically judges me as a "13 year old with anger problems" can continue to live in their cave eating raw fish.

I.... Can't tell if you're arguing against me or just summarising everything I stated. Either way, what harm could it do? Really? Sure it's a small thing compared to other issues, but I have to ask.... Why not?

Why not create more realistic and less stereotypical woman in games. I'm not saying there aren't already. But could always do with more.

Gamer stereotypes aren't pretty, I wish they were though. I'm ashamed to call myself a gamer (I also don't call myself one, not in public atleast), because of these stereotypes. Over sexualised woman in games is one of those stereotypes.

Okay, but what are some solutions? Some ideas? Suggestions of what can be done? Examples? What would classify as a "realistic" and stereotypical woman? Please, if you can. Show photo-examples to get the point across.
How are they over sexual?
And if so, what would be sensible/fair to put in a video game?
Also if we do not change it, what harm will be done?
Isn't changing a structure to favor a groups needs no different then censorship?
Isn't it self defeating for women to say that some women in games that do not wear the same amount of clothing as them are oversexual--since- some women prefer to wear very revealing clothing? Is that not singling them out, to favor your own likes and dislikes?
Isn't asking creators to go by a criteria that a group finds except able limiting their creativity?
And if you believe women are being victimized in video games, don't you believe that by extension men are too due to over dramatic muscle tone, beautiful female features, and gruff appearances/tough guy personalities?

Edit: Don't you believe you are taking the issue at hand too far on a personal level? If you enjoy playing something or doing anything in this world, you should not be ashamed to do it. It is your right to determine whether or not you wish to have that publicly known, however. But do you believe that you are projecting your own discomfort onto others to have a change so that you maybe more comfortable with a hobby?

If you are uncomfortable admitting to it, do you believe that dropping the hobby itself may be best so that you may not expose yourself to a circle that you are clearly ashamed of? If not, then is that not the definition of masochistic behavior?

These are actual questions, not me bugging you. I would very much appreciate what your answers are. But I heard what people think are the problem, I'm ready to hear what this side of the fence has to offer, much like many others are.

Edit again:

And I have a solution to the problem that is loud mouth, immature people who would say hurtful things to women on the internet.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-R609OxHFco

AMorphine:

To be entirely honest I think at this juncture with a lot of games it is like that. I however don't think that just because it is true it has to stay true. If publishers and studios cared more about the female demographic that would change quickly and drastically. They could also get more business if they did. I for one know that I enjoyed the Mass Effect series more because I had choices.

Of course, when publishers and devs "care" about the female demographic, we mostly get "cooking mama."

Not that there's anything wrong with Cooking Mama, and if someone's into it, awesome. But the thing is that at this point, "attention to women" is still the Nintendo "attention to non-gamers" deal the vast majority of the time. It's like they've recognised women play games but not noticed there is a female base playing what are still considered male titles.

I'm still not sure that when it comes to mainstream (read: "male") games the choice is either/or, though.

Bara_no_Hime:

Snowblindblitz:
Where's the sexism in Halo?

The first one was pretty devoid of women, as far as I can tell. At worse, they pandered Cortana's character in 3. But I enjoyed Cortana's character, as well as Miranda Keys and the female soldiers I encountered seemed equal to the male soldiers.

I bolded the problem there - the fact that females just don't seem to exist in Halo 1.

Your post indicates that they corrected that problem in later installments. Fair enough.

But look at the genre Halo was in--the military shooter. The only character that most people know from from that genre that is female is Samus Aran--whose treatment in Metroid over M has been picked over and flamed to the point it looks like the freaking Ghost Rider.

maximara:

Bara_no_Hime:

Snowblindblitz:
Where's the sexism in Halo?

The first one was pretty devoid of women, as far as I can tell. At worse, they pandered Cortana's character in 3. But I enjoyed Cortana's character, as well as Miranda Keys and the female soldiers I encountered seemed equal to the male soldiers.

I bolded the problem there - the fact that females just don't seem to exist in Halo 1.

Your post indicates that they corrected that problem in later installments. Fair enough.

But look at the genre Halo was in--the military shooter. The only character that most people know from from that genre that is female is Samus Aran--whose treatment in Metroid over M has been picked over and flamed to the point it looks like the freaking Ghost Rider.

/facepalm. You know what else has no female characters? 8 bit arcade games... Pacman had no female characters, neither did frogger, pong, tetris. Sexism, SEXISM i tell ya!

Bullfrogg:
I'm not really up to date on what games Sarkeesian is investigating, but I did notice footage of Pikmin in Jim's video. Is she really accusing Pikmin of sexism or was Jim just showing random video game clips?

As far as I'm aware, she's not using Pikmin as an example. The way the pikmin act fit exactly what he was saying, thus the picture.

OT: My honest opinion towards her is "whatever." I've watched a few of her videos and I'm not a fan, but it's certainly not the worst thing I've seen.

Revolutionaryloser:

ccdohl:

Revolutionaryloser:

That's nice and all but I think you are forgetting your opinion is insignificant in the broader scale of things.

Why do posters on the escapist always have to get so existential?

I didn't say that it will matter, just that the responses and criticisms are completely separate from the trolling that Jim said has defined the debate now.

That's not what I meant at all. What I'm saying is that your opinion, as reasoned as it may be, will inevitably be drowned out by the insane cries to rape and murder that bitch. Meanwhile, people from the outside will only see a single woman saying women should be given more respect in media taking abuse from every direction from rabid misogyninsts. She wins by default. She's right because you are more wrong. Jim's point is that if the sane rational people in the gaming community had any selfrespect and put the crazy rape mongerers in their place before this blew up into an Internet phenomenon, Anita Sarkeesian would have never been given the giant soapbox she now has and anything she could possibly say is warranted because it's already been established that the gaminng community is just a horde of beasts. In this context, your opinion and mine are worth jack shit.

Ah, gotcha. Makes sense, though Jim Sterling could write his column or do a show on it since he has a platform. Though we'll surely be drowned by trolls, unless you have some sort of platform too. I don't. = (

i've actually seen her videos and they are not very good.

matthew_lane:

Revolutionaryloser:
That's not what I meant at all. What I'm saying is that your opinion, as reasoned as it may be, will inevitably be drowned out by the insane cries to rape and murder that bitch. Meanwhile, people from the outside will only see a single woman saying women should be given more respect in media taking abuse from every direction from rabid misogyninsts

Except it wasn't gamers wh attacked her, ity was b/tards.

btard =/= gaming community

Are you implying the two groups don't overlap? Also, if you hadn't cut my quote short, I'm not accusing anybody personally, but I am pointing out that as a community we should have had the self-respect to deal with these cunts ourselves and not wait for the feminist police to make this a giant Internet thing.

thomasmj7:
i've actually seen her videos and she i jusT FUCKING STUPID. she obviously as done no reasearch what so ever, she's a fucking ATTENTION CRAVING HACK THAT DESERVES TO BURN!!!

Yeah. You're kind of late to the party. We're already at the after hours club.

Revolutionaryloser:
Are you implying the two groups don't overlap?

I'm sure there is overlap... There is also an over lap in kiddy diddlers & catholic priests, but i think it'd be considered slander if i were to start refer to people who force them selves on children as catholic priests, by dint of extended logic (in this case flawed logic).

The gaming community didn't attack her, the B/tards of 4Chan did, after she trolled there website. At that point it was misreported by white knights, who also happen to be writers for gaming press, at which point people wh are gamers got pissed off at being so terribly misrepresented in such a sexist, bigoted fashion.

matthew_lane:

/facepalm. You know what else has no female characters? 8 bit arcade games... Pacman had no female characters, neither did frogger, pong, tetris. Sexism, SEXISM i tell ya!

The obvious difference being that those games had either 1 character or none (except Pac-Man, but the ghosts are pretty much genderless). A genre with games that actually have several characters and stories to put them in shouldn't be nearly devoid of women.

Apologies if your sarcasm was itself ironic (fingers crossed).

maximara:
But look at the genre Halo was in--the military shooter. The only character that most people know from from that genre that is female is Samus Aran--whose treatment in Metroid over M has been picked over and flamed to the point it looks like the freaking Ghost Rider.

This is the problem when people quote my replies to other people - everything is long since out of context.

Yes, my original post way back up the thread was that I found DoA less upsetting than military shooters like Halo, Gears of War, CoD, etc. This person pointed out that Halo, at least, added in female soldiers later down the line, so I was conceding that Halo apparently corrected the problem after game 1 - making Halos 2+ less sexist than the average military shooter. Now if only they'd give me the ability to carry 8 guns at a time again... **misses Timesplitters**

Also, I have no idea what your point here is. Are you agreeing with me, saying that the military shooter genre has a sexism problem due to lack of female characters, or are you disagreeing with me and saying that "all military shooters are that way so it's okay"?

And finally - people, if you are going to reply to me explaining a small piece of a previous post, then please, read the previous post so we don't end up in an endless cycle of me explaining the same thing over and over again. I'm being nice so far and replying to most everyone, but I'm rapidly getting tired of saying the same thing in every reply because half of you are too lazy to read up the thread before clicking reply to my latest explanation of something I said in relation to something else I said in relation to something else I said two days ago.

matthew_lane:
/facepalm. You know what else has no female characters? 8 bit arcade games... Pacman had no female characters, neither did frogger, pong, tetris.

Ms. Packman was significantly more popular than regular Packman. Also, I believe one of the ghosts was female as well.

Your comment is thus provably wrong.

And, although it should go without saying, a game without characters cannot be faulted for not having female characters.

Edit: Oh, and that's just counting Atari 8-bit games. There are a ton of female characters in the original NES lineup - including Princess Peach, Zelda, and Samus.

Ha ha you stupid trolls. You yet again try to control someone by ganging up on them, only to have it blow up in your faces, and then you bawwwww about it while accepting no responability.

Do you really think showing blatant sexism and issuing rape threats is going to silence someone who might be annoying, but does have some legitimate complaints about sexism?

Moral of the story, sometimes words and reason will do a better job silencing someone than your 4chan/Encylopedia Dramtica inspired shit

matthew_lane:

Revolutionaryloser:
Are you implying the two groups don't overlap?

I'm sure there is overlap... There is also an over lap in kiddy diddlers & catholic priests, but i think it'd be considered slander if i were to start refer to people who force them selves on children as catholic priests, by dint of extended logic (in this case flawed logic).

The gaming community didn't attack her, the B/tards of 4Chan did, after she trolled there website. At that point it was misreported by white knights, who also happen to be writers for gaming press, at which point people wh are gamers got pissed off at being so terribly misrepresented in such a sexist, bigoted fashion.

a) I think you need to look up the word overlap in a dictionary

b) Even if it were true that she incited a reaction from a group of people, that doesn't excuse the reaction from those people, especially when it's particularly vile as is the case at hand.

c) The people who attacked her online undeniably had an investment in gaming culture.

d) As nice as it would be to deny point c, there is very solid evidence most of the more awful harassers were very inmersed in gaming culture e.g. a group of them made a videogame in which you could beat the shit of Sarkeesian and disfigure her face.

Sepko:

Tenmar:
Shocked no one put this up yet.

http://archive.foolz.us/v/thread/139813364/

Also take note that it is against the rules of 4chan to solicit funds of any kind. Even some of the members said to report her and move on.

Taken from a site that bathes in anonymity. How do we know that it was actually her?

The best I can give you is that the picture of her in the first post of that thread isn't findable by Google anywhere that predates that thread. So unless someone has evidence of it predating that thread somewhere that the Google don't shine, then it was likely taken for that thread, which implies Anita or someone in her camp as an originator.

Wandering_Hero:
Ha ha you stupid trolls. You yet again try to control someone by ganging up on them, only to have it blow up in your faces, and then you bawwwww about it while accepting no responability.

Do you really think showing blatant sexism and issuing rape threats is going to silence someone who might be annoying, but does have some legitimate complaints about sexism?

Moral of the story, sometimes words and reason will do a better job silencing someone than your 4chan/Encylopedia Dramtica inspired shit

Well said, I think if we really wanted to discredit any video she does on the subject of gaming, we should wait for it to come out and post reasonable articulate reactions in a calm and concise manner.

Discussion and reason helps improve the entire industry, knee-jerk reactions, death threats and flaming only serve to bring the whole thing down.

Schadrach:

Sepko:

Tenmar:
Shocked no one put this up yet.

http://archive.foolz.us/v/thread/139813364/

Also take note that it is against the rules of 4chan to solicit funds of any kind. Even some of the members said to report her and move on.

Taken from a site that bathes in anonymity. How do we know that it was actually her?

The best I can give you is that the picture of her in the first post of that thread isn't findable by Google anywhere that predates that thread. So unless someone has evidence of it predating that thread somewhere that the Google don't shine, then it was likely taken for that thread, which implies Anita or someone in her camp as an originator.

It's amazing people have the gall to call what she did on this thread trolling. It's almost an insult to trolls. Having seen the lukewarm reaction she got on 4chan, I'm even more doubtful that the horde of emotionally withdrawn asshats that attacked her were "/b/tard trolls" as everybody likes to claim. I'd wager the hate spewed from a different source.

daibakuha:

Wandering_Hero:
Ha ha you stupid trolls. You yet again try to control someone by ganging up on them, only to have it blow up in your faces, and then you bawwwww about it while accepting no responability.

Do you really think showing blatant sexism and issuing rape threats is going to silence someone who might be annoying, but does have some legitimate complaints about sexism?

Moral of the story, sometimes words and reason will do a better job silencing someone than your 4chan/Encylopedia Dramtica inspired shit

Well said, I think if we really wanted to discredit any video she does on the subject of gaming, we should wait for it to come out and post reasonable articulate reactions in a calm and concise manner.

Discussion and reason helps improve the entire industry, knee-jerk reactions, death threats and flaming only serve to bring the whole thing down.

If you want to go down as the victor in history, make sure you're the one fighting against the dipshits who rely on death/rape threats, sexism, racism and homophobia to reach their goals. Know thy enemy, as they say.

Revolutionaryloser:

Schadrach:

Sepko:

Taken from a site that bathes in anonymity. How do we know that it was actually her?

The best I can give you is that the picture of her in the first post of that thread isn't findable by Google anywhere that predates that thread. So unless someone has evidence of it predating that thread somewhere that the Google don't shine, then it was likely taken for that thread, which implies Anita or someone in her camp as an originator.

It's amazing people have the gall to call what she did on this thread trolling. It's almost an insult to trolls. Having seen the lukewarm reaction she got on 4chan, I'm even more doubtful that the horde of emotionally withdrawn asshats that attacked her were "/b/tard trolls" as everybody likes to claim. I'd wager the hate spewed from a different source.

That picture is hardly damning evidence that she posted there. It doesn't really hold a lot of water.

daibakuha:

Revolutionaryloser:

Schadrach:

The best I can give you is that the picture of her in the first post of that thread isn't findable by Google anywhere that predates that thread. So unless someone has evidence of it predating that thread somewhere that the Google don't shine, then it was likely taken for that thread, which implies Anita or someone in her camp as an originator.

It's amazing people have the gall to call what she did on this thread trolling. It's almost an insult to trolls. Having seen the lukewarm reaction she got on 4chan, I'm even more doubtful that the horde of emotionally withdrawn asshats that attacked her were "/b/tard trolls" as everybody likes to claim. I'd wager the hate spewed from a different source.

That picture is hardly damning evidence that she posted there. It doesn't really hold a lot of water.

Even if she did, is it that big of a deal? Whoever posted wasn't exactly dropping The Dozens on every new poster. It doesn't really explain the Beat Anita To Death tribute game.

I wonder if she'd go apeshit if the main character in spec ops the line was a female?

Revolutionaryloser:

Even if she did, is it that big of a deal? Whoever posted wasn't exactly dropping The Dozens on every new poster. It doesn't really explain the Beat Anita To Death tribute game.

This was going to be my second point, but you beat me to it.

Hmmm, well I think the problem here is that people weren't pissed at Anita for being a woman, but for pushing what amounts to a radical feminist agenda. People who more or less want games to be left alone to be developed as the designers want to, rather than politics getting involved. The very portrayal of games as some kind of Asylum of juvenile male behavior is exactly why people were upset, because it's really not true, unless you want to make the arguement that the general run of fantasy, including that produced by and for women are also bastions of juveline male behavior. The attitude that there is something wrong with even games like "Dead Or Alive: Beach Volleyball" is what this is all about.

To be honest I think the problem is that there is too much of a kneejerrk "female in trouble, must protect" reaction on the internet, and that's the core of the problem. Anita basically decided to be a troll, got called on it as a troll (and invited a lot of counter trolling) and otherwise dealt with in the way most people of undetermined gender would be silenced on the Internet.... whether you think that is good or bad is a matter of opinion, but it's the way things are. Anita became a monster due to "white knighting" and the fact that people came to her rescue just because it was a girl who was being attacked, whether she deserved it or not. This happens a lot on the internet, but this is probably the most high profile example of it getting out of hand. Shutting up femme-trolls is something that the internet community really need to work on, in many cases, just letting them deal with the crap they bring upon themselves.

I also wanted to say that I *DO* blame the gaming media for creating Anita more than the people who went on the offensive to shut her up. The reason is simply that the media reported on the attacks, without being all that judgemental of what she stood for, or how she brought those attacks on herself. Had more media outlets shut her down for being someone trying to play a feminist agenda for attention, and mentioned the outpouring of hate as a side note, that would have stopped it too. Rather the gaming media was not critical enough of the situation, demonized those making the attacks without really focusing on what provoked them, and ultimatly giving her a perception of legitimacy, and even more fuel for the white knights.

As I said from the beginning, I don't think Anita is even someone with a real agenda to push, I think she's just a fame troll. A cam-girl/cam-whore who accidently hit the big time by pushing the right buttons at exactly the right time. Of course nobody listened to me, and things snowballed from there, largely because of the whole "female in trouble" reflex, which caused me to take a certain amount of bile simply for pointing out that she really did kind of deserve it as she was hanging out a giant piece of troll bait knowing what was going to happen, she just happened to barter it into far more success than anyone could have logically predicted.

In short there are a LOT of things to "blame" for this, the counter-trolls making the attacks are among them, but as that is business as usual for the internet and how such things are usually dealt with (and dealt with successfully, which is how it became so common), it's the most mild part of it. The gaming media probably has the biggest amount of fault for handlign it improperly and not being critical enough of how she brought it on herself, and of course the people who jumped in to white knight her just because it was a girl.

Varun Garuda Maharaj:
I wonder if she'd go apeshit if the main character in spec ops the line was a female?

Well, with the stance she's taking she can go apeshit about anything. Changing the gender of this character would bring it into line with a lot of tropes. To be honest "Spec. Ops: The Line" was mostly just unique for being a video game, the story itself is pretty typical as far as novels and even movies go. There are plenty of gritty/morally ambigious "action girls" out there already... I've been extremely critical ofher from the beginning, because of exactly this, she's more or less attacking video games from a feminist angle simply for attention.

See, even if you decided that you wanted to make a beefy, unattractive 45 year old ex-marine sergeant out of the girl, it would invoke her ire, in that case the arguement would probably be "trying too hard, and thus offensive" in some form.

Having watched this from the beginning, I'm pretty sure Anita is out for nothing but Anita, there are no real issues involved. She'll ultimatly spin anything in whatever way is going to get her the most attention and exposure. Tons of girls like her out there on the internet, she just happened to push the right button, at the right time, and pretty much every failsafe that should prevent something like this from occuring (including the gaming media) pretty much failed.

Therumancer:
-snip-

Has anybody ever threatened to rape you on the Internet?

Revolutionaryloser:

Therumancer:
-snip-

Has anybody ever threatened to rape you on the Internet?

Yes, a matter of fact they have, and exactly in this style. Someone telling you that they are going to make you their prison bitch (or whatever) for doing or saying something they don't like isn't all that uncommon you realize. As someone who has taken a number of contreversial positions over the years, and continues to do so, I've gotten pretty much every kind of threat you can think of. I'm just not a drama queen about it.

For that matter when I worked casino security I've been threatned in pretty much every way you can imagine, including my family, my pets, my car and everything else. Alcohol shut offs are especially fun for that. So, it's not just the internet either. You know "I just lost $10,000 dollars and now your telling me I can't drink anymore, just wait until you get out of here, I'm going to run you off the side of the road and me and my friends are going to rape you like we did in prison and mail your head back to this damn casino..."

I can't speak for anyone else though, but in my case the answer is "yep".

Revolutionaryloser:

Therumancer:
-snip-

Has anybody ever threatened to rape you on the Internet?

Yes, quite often actually. I've also received death threats through emails, IMs(thank god I don't use that anymore), while I am playing video games and pretty much everywhere I go online that is questionable.

However there is a second filter that is missing from your question. Is any of the actual threats legitimate or serious enough to report to the proper authorities involved? I know that in some games and in some cases of e-mail I have reported said individual accounts but I will say the majority of threats and such are simply put venting. There is really nothing different from us and Anita and since this is the internet things like gender are certainly irrelevant.

Therumancer:

Revolutionaryloser:

Therumancer:
-snip-

Has anybody ever threatened to rape you on the Internet?

Yes, a matter of fact they have, and exactly in this style. Someone telling you that they are going to make you their prison bitch (or whatever) for doing or saying something they don't like isn't all that uncommon you realize. As someone who has taken a number of contreversial positions over the years, and continues to do so, I've gotten pretty much every kind of threat you can think of. I'm just not a drama queen about it.

For that matter when I worked casino security I've been threatned in pretty much every way you can imagine, including my family, my pets, my car and everything else. Alcohol shut offs are especially fun for that. So, it's not just the internet either. You know "I just lost $10,000 dollars and now your telling me I can't drink anymore, just wait until you get out of here, I'm going to run you off the side of the road and me and my friends are going to rape you like we did in prison and mail your head back to this damn casino..."

I can't speak for anyone else though, but in my case the answer is "yep".

And you wouldn't have prefered that somebody had your back when exposed to this kind of terrible abuse? You realize the word we use for your philosophy is victim-blaming?

Tenmar:

Revolutionaryloser:

Therumancer:
-snip-

Has anybody ever threatened to rape you on the Internet?

Yes, quite often actually. I've also received death threats through emails, IMs(thank god I don't use that anymore), while I am playing video games and pretty much everywhere I go online that is questionable.

However there is a second filter that is missing from your question. Is any of the actual threats legitimate or serious enough to report to the proper authorities involved? I know that in some games and in some cases of e-mail I have reported said individual accounts but I will say the majority of threats and such are simply put venting. There is really nothing different from us and Anita and since this is the internet things like gender are certainly irrelevant.

Those kind of messages are unacceptable behaviour in a civilized society. I wish you would have reported it and made it public. Most normal people are pretty outraged by threats like those.

Revolutionaryloser:

And you wouldn't have prefered that somebody had your back when exposed to this kind of terrible abuse? You realize the word we use for your philosophy is victim-blaming?

But then comes a couple of questions.

1. Is she really a victim?

2. Is it alright for her to make such a huge generalization of everyone who plays video games by simply using video game community that everyone including yourself is sexist?

She certainly has no problem taking the time and posting what she thinks if the worst comments and constantly portraying herself as a victim, but there is no real hard evidence or background that demonstrates herself as being a victim. She hasn't been physically harmed, there has been no police out to arrest said individuals, nor does she actually demonstrate any sort of trauma that comes with being a victim. And this is coming from a guy who is a victim of a hit and run where I was riding a bike and was struck by a SUV.

But the latter is more important because while she certainly has no problem lambasting and generalizing everyone who plays video games you have to ask the question, "What specifically is a video game community?". Because it would certainly be hard to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that 4chan or youtube are acceptable definitions of video game communities as there is no actual connection between all those individuals aside from the website they are posting from. The same logical fallacy can be taken when you make a statement like, "The world of warcraft community is sexist and racist". Okay, but specifically what guilds or clans are demonstrating this behavior because an individual by oneself does not represent or have any actual connection to the millions of other people who sit down and play world of warcraft.

Simply put it is quite dishonest of her to make such vapid generalizations and lazy criticism without any actual hard or specific parties being named. And only making herself feel good as she throws stones from an ivory tower just like the religious right.

Tenmar:
-snip-

If somebody threatens, especially with something as awful as rape, you are a victim. Nobody should have to suffer that kind of abuse. Where I come from, that kind of abuse is considered far from normal and there are penal punishments for threats of that nature. Even if often sick people like these go unpunished for logistical reasons, it is not normal or acceptable. It isn't OK.

I don't think I can start arguing the possible faults of Anita Sarkeesian until I've gotten this point across.

Revolutionaryloser:

Those kind of messages are unacceptable behaviour in a civilized society. I wish you would have reported it and made it public. Most normal people are pretty outraged by threats like those.

You are right it is unacceptable. But you have to also have a filter on what should be taken seriously and what shouldn't. You see I come from a house of law and order. One parent is a police officer while the other works as a paralegal. And time and time again and even from my experience as an explorer scout and hell even as a retail representative I have come across a lot of situations where you have to use good judgment.

This means that you CAN'T just throw the book at everyone for every little transgression. To err is human. No one is certainly above the law but there is another important part which is "serve and protect" and this means actually demonstrating who, when you come across a situation is actually a simple problem that can be resolved with words or if any sort of legal authority should be utilized.

You are right that I could certainly report EVERYONE for all those threats and it would be legitimate. But which ones are actually the real trouble makers or threats? Because to punish everyone for every minor transgression would end up having a prison state. I've literally as an explorer scout almost been run over by individuals and even with such force it is also takes great strength to actually stop those people from committing those problems that don't need to exist. You need to walk that fine line and use proper judgment because it certainly is the cowards way out to abuse a system compared to resolving most problems with a discussion.

I mean here is a good example from my experience. I've gotten speeding tickets in the past, and sometimes I haven't. I will admit that in usually in each situation I have been speeding but it is the officer's judgment to look at me as a person and really ask himself if I am a legitimate threat or if this was simply a small error. Had nothing to do with my family relations but more often than not having a conversation with the officer and the circumstances on why I was caught speeding.

 Pages PREV 1 . . . 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 . . . 21 NEXT

Reply to Thread

Log in or Register to Comment
Have an account? Login below:
With Facebook:Login With Facebook
or
Username:  
Password:  
  
Not registered? To sign up for an account with The Escapist:
Register With Facebook
Register With Facebook
or
Registered for a free account here