Jimquisition: Anita Sarkeesian - The Monster Gamers Created

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If she had blocked the comments right away, people would just have called her a coward who can't take criticism. I think letting them go on for a bit to show people exactly what was happening before shutting them down (And giving everyone a timedate beforehand) before flame wars got out of hand was a really good move.

CheckD3:
Honestly, I agree and disagree with her. I support gender equality in games, but I don't support feminism. Why? I ask you this question. So feminism is okay, but racism is bad? They're both isms, and to me that's the problem.

Seriously? You don't understand what words mean, or how suffixes work, so you're just going to hate on words because they're visually similar to other words?

(Magnetism! It's coming for us!)

Let's take a look at what "feminism" actually means:

(All those people displaying heroism. Despicable.)

feminism: A social theory or political movement supporting the equality of both sexes in all aspects of public and private life; specifically, a theory or movement that argues that legal and social restrictions on females must be removed in order to bring about such equality.

(Theism wants to kidnap your father!)

Get that? Feminism is for the equality of the sexes.

(Atheism wants to kidnap your father!)

In particular, recognizing that restrictions are explicitly placed upon women, both legally and socially, feminists want to remove said restrictions. (FREEEEEEDOOOOMMMMMMMMM)

(Anyone with astigmatism should be removed from society! Think of the children!)

Now, arguments can certainly be made that some people have expressed misandry and called it feminism, but misandry and feminism are not the same thing, and any misandry expressed as feminism should be taken for what it is--sexism--and cut out like one would a tumor, pausing only to further eradicate with chemo and radiation.

(Anyone employing the principles of absurdism should be completely ignored.)*

In general, however, the "-ism" suffix simply indicates a belief in something or a principle. Magnetism, the principle of magnetic states. Capitalism, the economic system of buying and selling. Democratism, the belief in democratically run governments.

(Capitalism! Ruining your life since the 1500s!)

Feminism, at its core, is simply the belief in women, that they are people too, and, as such, should have the rights and privileges of all people.

(Anyone with bilingualism should be locked up!)

Quite simply, I humbly entreat anyone who is not a feminist to never vote under any circumstances. I am not attempting to restrict your right to vote--nor will I in the future!--since I am a firm believer of democratism. Nevertheless, I am asking, please, do not vote.

(All those people espousing atomism! Where do they get off?)

(This word-vomit rant disguised as a PSA brought to you by Azuaron, amateur linguist.)

*Meta!

Anita Sarkeesian... Honestly, I don't have a problem with her. Most of the arguments just fall under general sexism, but there are some smart people who call out how flawed her arguments are and how she's looking at Female Characters in Video Games at face value; i.e., focusing on how sexualized they look rather than their role in the story. Others have pointed out that her Kickstarter amount asked for just a series of YouTube videos is ludicrous, but really, I feel like, regardless of how much of a Straw Feminist she MIGHT be, ANY voice from her or from girls in general in video games is a good one. For too long, the playing field has been dominated by (white) adolescent males or man-children who feel like any negative criticism on sex in a game is "the big mean feminists are trying to ruin our fun". Well I say, let them ruin your fun, you big babies. You've got enough toys to play with at this point, let the girls have a say in the matter.

Good video. The only time I comment on the situation with "she who shall not be named" is when discussing kickstarters in general (ie - that they are a horrible way to spend money, even if you support "the cause").

However, I think I directly disagree that the topic of gender in games garners interesting discussion in forums. I think it COULD... if it wasn't the internet.

As it stands, any thread that comes up on this site about gender in games is akin to trench warfare at this point. If you're not in the trenches, you're most likely in the middle, wishing the two "armies" would just finish each other off already, so you can go back to your normal life. But, since we can't solve internet debates via duels to the death, those who just want the bickering to go away have to wait until either side gets bored or moves the war somewhere else.

I'm all for open discussion on sensitive topics, but discussion is not what we have. In discussions, I learn things. The only thing I learn from the recent flood of discussion topics on gender is that people are really pretentious.

Well said, Jim.

Pity the trolls didn't realize that "death threats against controversial opinion of someone who is currently in the public spotlight" = Instant publicity for said person.

TBH, I'm curious about what the hell she's gonna say about Bastion, though. I don't understand how that game is in ANY WAY sexist.

Yeah, you know I never heard of her either before all the attacks. then I watched all her videos... and they were so hilariously awful.
My favorite is her video on "The Most Sexist Christmas Songs" where she says: "When ever All I Want For Christmas is You is sung by a woman it's about submission, and when ever a man sings it it's about rape."

Oh, really? You're saying the connotation of a song's lyrics change depending on the gender (Or sex) of the person singing it? Intriguing... You do know that's the definition of sexism right?
Of course she's a self proclaimed authority on sexism, she's the most heinous example of it!

Now stick that comment in between one about how much she deserves to die and one about how she should sleep with one eye open because she's going to get raped or how she should get back to the kitchen, it looses a lot of it's sting even though it's the only one that's trying to make a valid point!

Thoric485:
The fire was kindled by gaming journalists too. Like, John Riccitiello and Bobby Kotick's names have been shat on rigorously by gamers during the last few years, right? But no valiant gaming journalists stepped in to disparage the criticisms towards them as trolling and hate speech. They're men and it's assumed they can handle it, yet not so with the women in gaming, who are immediately painted as victims.

But those people you name, Kotick and Riccitiello have been criticized largely because of their actions, their decisions and things they said.

The criticism towards Anita has been (for what I've read, which is not much) because she's a woman. And that's obviously a problem, because if we are stuck criticizing her 'cause she's a woman we can't criticize her for the ideas she has.

I have to agree with Jim on this one, the internet made a Frankenstein and instead not pulling the switch to make the monster come alive we did and now the monster is pounding their face in.

and about this whole issue about her. I honestly didn't really care anymore, and now I have anymore reason to avoid this like the plague and just don't get involved.

Is this the wrong thread to say that she has the "nerdy yet still totally hot" sarah silverman look down?

aegix drakan:
Well said, Jim.

Pity the trolls didn't realize that "death threats against controversial opinion of someone who is currently in the public spotlight" = Instant publicity for said person.

TBH, I'm curious about what the hell she's gonna say about Bastion, though. I don't understand how that game is in ANY WAY sexist.

http://www.destructoid.com/a-response-to-some-arguments-in-anita-sarkeesian-s-interview-230570.phtml

You might want to read this then. Probably the ONLY journalist that actually demonstrated how poorly researched even when it comes to having plenty of time to prepare for an interview of how little she understands about video games and how her own personal biases and standards prevent her from even having a simple level of disbelief when playing a video game.

rembrandtqeinstein:
Is this the wrong thread to say that she has the "nerdy yet still totally hot" sarah silverman look down?

Nah not really. Honestly I never found her attractive but then again the standard for being attractive is subjective. Then again I never really found Sarah Silverman to be very attractive either.

I even remember watching her with a bunch of comedians doing a fundraiser in the U.K. and was televised by the BBC. She was literally the ONLY comedian that didn't get a single laugh during her routine. I shit you not it was probably one of the most unfunniest comedy sketches I've ever seen in my life that if I had tomatoes I'd probably would have thrown them. It was that bad.

...And I hope her voice only gets louder, more prominent.

Let's make this clear. I'm very skeptic when it comes to feminism, not because I want my bewbies, but because, if it gets in the way of the intended and projected symbolism, and everyone goes up in arms about the Lara Croft trailer again, I will facepalm and lose even more faith in humanity.

But Anita Sarkeesian? Sure she doesn't get all those glorious little memes that are killing humor today, and is an outsider to that really, super hardcore group of 'freedom fighters' who think she needs to be silenced, but that doesn't mean she doesn't have a point. In fact, I'd argue the fact that she's not part of that vile little group as a good thing, not only does she have a different perspective to offer, she's intelligent enough to not just go with the pack and have, you know, a voice.

What I'm trying to say is that Anita Sarkeesian isn't afraid to stand up for what she stands for, and while we're on the topic, while I haven't personally seen many of her videos, she has a fucking point. Honestly, I think she's going to end up one of the most influential people of this gaming/internet generation (which isn't long but still).

There IS a problem, and as attractive as that problem is in its own right, it really does get in the way of the more intelligent aspect of gaming. That doesn't mean stupid games can't exist, and it doesn't mean that problem won't have its niche. Oh, I'm sorry, there is on problem?

The fact that at least one of you are thinking about calling me a white knight is all the proof I need to say that, yes, there is a problem in gender equality. It goes both ways, but regarding gaming as a whole, it sort of leans towards feminine oppression.

Alot.

EDIT @something above: Actually, some of her research comes from her backers.

Ah jimmy first and for most thanks for a new look to your rant. I was getting tired of hearing how big business (or what ever) is fucking up gaming. and....
I have no idea who Anita Sark is.

I almost looked her up but than I realized, I still have no idea who she is or what she's about LOL. I don't really feel compelled to find out.

Unless she's Jay wilson's mom, I don't care. I care so little for names in the video gaming field.

Wait she doesn't even have a video? So this is because a girl, (woman) wrote something that pissed you off?

Okay correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't she troll you? She did the least amount of effort, you did all the work, and now your furious.

I'm gonna peak through this thread now to get a general idea on who she is.

"She is your Frankensteins Monster...you created her..."

Very well said, Jim, that pretty much sums up this whole horrid mess...

el_kabong:
Good video. The only time I comment on the situation with "she who shall not be named" is when discussing kickstarters in general (ie - that they are a horrible way to spend money, even if you support "the cause").

However, I think I directly disagree that the topic of gender in games garners interesting discussion in forums. I think it COULD... if it wasn't the internet.

As it stands, any thread that comes up on this site about gender in games is akin to trench warfare at this point. If you're not in the trenches, you're most likely in the middle, wishing the two "armies" would just finish each other off already, so you can go back to your normal life. But, since we can't solve internet debates via duels to the death, those who just want the bickering to go away have to wait until either side gets bored or moves the war somewhere else.

....Gee i suddenly feel better about not posting all over this sight LOL if that's how it is.
And I post on camel dog. the asshole of the internet.

Seriously this sight main focus is about gender issues in gaming?
That sounds well.. boring.

I sort of resent the notion Jim's putting forward here that "people who disagree with Anita" and "people who were threatening to rape her" are exactly the same set. The later set was never interested in intellectual discussion to begin with.

rembrandtqeinstein:
Is this the wrong thread to say that she has the "nerdy yet still totally hot" sarah silverman look down?

I did think she looked like sarah Silverman! Thank you.

Hot? Well again I'm avoiding insulting anyone right now, and I rather like the nerdy look,
I didn't think it worked for her (maybe because I hate Sarah, she seemed like a female Tom Green).

After reading 5-6 posts i still have no feel for her LOL. or what all the fuss and muss is.

People are threatening to rape her. Okay.. look it's the net and I hang on a scummy sight, I'm cool, I'm down,

but why? Did she say ban t and a from gaming? I shouldn't need this long to guess at something.

sadmac:
I sort of resent the notion Jim's putting forward here that "people who disagree with Anita" and "people who were threatening to rape her" are exactly the same set. The later set was never interested in intellectual discussion to begin with.

I gather he's focusing on the rape crowd and you should be comfortable enough in your non raping ways to pet jim on the head and move along ^^.

I'm sure some over lap. I'm sure some don't. I'm sure we can all be adults (accept the rape people LOL) and agree there not one and the same.

Every word I this video is the truth. I hate the attention that Anita is getting only barbecue it gets in the way of talking about gender equality itself, no one brings up her points they'd rather point out things she's supposedly guilty of then discuss the subject at hand and even if she's not mentioned in the original subject she somehow comes up.

It's generally right that gamers have created a Frankenstein's Monster because the same idiots who shout "FUCK YOU FAG" on Call Of Duty decided to tell Anita how they've love to choke and rape her. However, to say this has no damage and that there's no way there could be damage from all of this? This isn't an attack towards Anita persay (I personally disagree with her views generally), but you have to keep in mind that publishers play things incredibly safe. There is no reason why publishers may send out a game that may be seen as sexist, especially since all the needlessly brutal and offensive attacks have made her out to be a victim in the layman's eyes and therefore her cause to be righteous. All it'd take is for her, or a similar female crusader, to proclaim a game as sexist and shit hits the fan hard.

As much as it'd be nice to assume "well, nothing will come of this", I'd rather stay very cautious about the whole affair and wait for the future to occur. It's too early days to assume will be dandy from now on, or that this will generate some much needed discussions on racism, sexism and homophobia in games. Personally, I'm tempted to say this will lead to the victim card being played more and more white heterosexuals male crying like children about how they can't get porn in their games.

Then again, maybe I'm still a bit sour at the Hitman development. I still think people missed the point.

ElPatron:

I am not interested in any way on the "seriousness" or "artistic value" of videogames, but when political correctness starts crippling our games we can kiss goodbye any recognition we might have had.

I would argue that games are already crippled when it comes to recognition as a legitimate art form. Not because many games lack "political correctness" but because of WHY they lack it. Games don't have ridiculous bouncing boobs and skimpy outfits because they are trying to convey anything meaningful, they are in the games because they pander to the masses that buy those games. It's a decision based off of what these companies think will profit. What they are making is JUST A PRODUCT and therefore, aren't art.

And as long as games are associated with these images, they will not be taken seriously.

http://www.feministfrequency.com/2009/11/the-real-reason-guys-should-hate-twilight/

so this is the big problem? I really was ready to go on the hate wagon. I got a black belt in hating on shit. I have no problem with as jim would say "go for the throat."

As far as I can tell this girl is my kind of scum. (to qoute jabba).
As far as I can tell she's a new look to old conversations.
It sounds like she inspires thought.

Yes being told what to do, does suck ass.
Yes she seems to have issues with love, and not the kind of issues someone who's been hurt has, but the kind of issues someone who's never really been in a real relationship.

relationships to some form, or degree are in fact about manipulation. Even if your both, super, duper trying not to.

I could take that the wrong way, I could have a short temper and go "Your gay bi%tch shut up." but unless she's considerably worse in her other videos I don't see a real problem.

While there are a few things she thinks is sexist that I don't (just a wee bit to far), there really aren't that many, and she makes enough good points. Fact is, woman gamers need a prominent woman somebody to stand up for us in the public eye more often, and we don't really have many options right now. The fact that she got famous was indicative of the problem; she wouldn't exist as she does in the public eye if the harassment/sexism issue wasn't already so bad. Sometimes the immune system is going to flare up and go overboard before things really get better. Then I can only hope we're left with more women we can look up to with which to diversify the topic, and then hopefully it will all get better and we can all stop having the same conversation over and over.

The attitude I don't like that I keep hearing from a lot of internet personalities is that " Fine, we'll talk about this and things will go right back to the way they were everybody. No cause for alarm, and then we won't look like the jerky ones." No. NO. It won't go away until things change. We will have the same conversation, (even her points have been made before somewhere), over and over until things change. Misogynistic crap should be relegated to a back corner of the store, not left to be praised in the mainstream eye. I want games any gender can enjoy, on a fundamental human level more often. It happens, but not as often as it should.

( And I don't think likening her to a monster is a very good move, Jim.)

Magog1:
Ah jimmy first and for most thanks for a new look to your rant. I was getting tired of hearing how big business (or what ever) is fucking up gaming. and....
I have no idea who Anita Sark is.

I almost looked her up but than I realized, I still have no idea who she is or what she's about LOL. I don't really feel compelled to find out.

Unless she's Jay wilson's mom, I don't care. I care so little for names in the video gaming field.

Wait she doesn't even have a video? So this is because a girl, (woman) wrote something that pissed you off?

Okay correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't she troll you? She did the least amount of effort, you did all the work, and now your furious.

I'm gonna peak through this thread now to get a general idea on who she is.

There you go.

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=anita+sarkeesian

At least the Presidential elections are coming up soon, so we'll have something other than gender politics to flame and insult each other over.

I had to minimize the video that I might listen and not see. I can't stand her smug fuckin' face.

sadmac:
I sort of resent the notion Jim's putting forward here that "people who disagree with Anita" and "people who were threatening to rape her" are exactly the same set. The later set was never interested in intellectual discussion to begin with.

Um, that's not what he said. He said that the latter set have made intellectual discussion impossible.

Kataskopo:

But those people you name, Kotick and Riccitiello have been criticized largely because of their actions, their decisions and things they said.

The criticism towards Anita has been (for what I've read, which is not much) because she's a woman. And that's obviously a problem, because if we are stuck criticizing her 'cause she's a woman we can't criticize her for the ideas she has.

I can't say I've seen a "she's wrong because she's a woman" rhetoric being thrown around here or anywhere. It's definitely not a pillar of the argumentation against Sarkeesian, as much as gaming journalists want to make it out to be.

Like in the case of the Jennifer Hepler thing. If it was a BioWare writer called John Hepler that came out and said he doesn't enjoy playing video games and rambled about the B-grade romances in DA2, he'd be shat on just like Gaider, Button-awesome guy, Stanley Woo and etc. Except then nobody would step in concerned about his hurt feelings, simply because he's John and not Jennifer.

That's what bothers me. Journalists trying to cause a stir by putting female gaming personalities in the role of victims of sexism, when they're not.

LostintheWick:

I would argue that games are already crippled when it comes to recognition as a legitimate art form. Not because many games lack "political correctness" but because of WHY they lack it. Games don't have ridiculous bouncing boobs and skimpy outfits because they are trying to convey anything meaningful, they are in the games because they pander to the masses that buy those games. It's a decision based off of what these companies think will profit. What they are making is JUST A PRODUCT and therefore, aren't art.

And as long as games are associated with these images, they will not be taken seriously.

Woah, woah, woah.

Taken seriously? I thought we wanted games to be good. enjoyable, fun. And what's this indie scene bull shit "The masses, the masses!"

Seriously it's like MMA fans (pride fans) whining about how the ultimate fighter has made the sport casual fans can enjoy back when they felt special for having over 50 boot leg videos that only they knew about.

Lost I think your annoyed that gaming unlike you didn't grow up. It shouldn't. If there are a handful of games that inspire thoughts in you... personally God bless and keep you. But you can't make people think. People generally aren't getting games to think.

Just in the same way people don't go watch bat man to think. it can happen. but shouldn't expect it. You sure as hell shouldn't feel entitled to it.

rembrandtqeinstein:
Is this the wrong thread to say that she has the "nerdy yet still totally hot" sarah silverman look down?

I don't think this is the wrong thread to say that. In fact... I totally agree. Isn't this kind of ironic? Are we objectifying her for thinking this? Idk... but I would like to think, no.

I respect that her existence on the internet has caused a spotlight to be shined into the dark and on the disgusting behavior of these shitty human beings. (and no, disagreeing with her doesn't make you shitty, writing threats and hate makes you shitty)

Me as a gamer don't care, no really I don't give the slightest about misogynistic games/ers or someone screaming "games are bad/f*cks your brain up/sexist/what ever happens to be in for the season". What I care about is games, I don't really care to much about who made my games or who/what/when/where it's about.

I want good games that's it.

LostintheWick:

ElPatron:

I am not interested in any way on the "seriousness" or "artistic value" of videogames, but when political correctness starts crippling our games we can kiss goodbye any recognition we might have had.

I would argue that games are already crippled when it comes to recognition as a legitimate art form.

Which I'm not interested in. I was "just saying".

LostintheWick:
Not because many games lack "political correctness" but because of WHY they lack it. Games don't have ridiculous bouncing boobs and skimpy outfits because they are trying to convey anything meaningful, they are in the games because they pander to the masses that buy those games. It's a decision based off of what these companies think will profit. What they are making is JUST A PRODUCT and therefore, aren't art.

And as long as games are associated with these images, they will not be taken seriously.

Again, I am fine with those terms.

But "political correctness" is forced into "products". In the past two decades games made profit with controversy but I'm starting to think that publishers don't want to gamble on controversy.

Furrama:
While there are a few things she thinks is sexist that I don't (just a wee bit to far), there really aren't that many, and she makes enough good points. Fact is, woman gamers need a prominent woman somebody to stand up for us in the public eye more often, and we don't really have many options right now. The fact that she got famous was indicative of the problem; she wouldn't exist as she does in the public eye if the harassment/sexism issue wasn't already so bad. Sometimes the immune system is going to flare up and go overboard before things really get better. Then I can only hope we're left with more women we can look up to with which to diversify the topic, and then hopefully it will all get better and we can all stop having the same conversation over and over.

The attitude I don't like that I keep hearing from a lot of internet personalities is that " Fine, we'll talk about this and things will go right back to the way they were everybody. No cause for alarm, and then we won't look like the jerky ones." No. NO. It won't go away until things change. We will have the same conversation, (even her points have been made before somewhere), over and over until things change. Misogynistic crap should be relegated to a back corner of the store, not left to be praised in the mainstream eye. I want games any gender can enjoy, on a fundamental human level more often. It happens, but not as often as it should.

I'm sorry but if you want her to be your "representative" for "women gamers" then you really should understand that there are already much better qualified people that have actually given their time and effort to make video games better for everyone.

Ever heard of Daniela Lao? She used to be a key part of the ECA(Entertainment consumers Association) in charge of the community charters helping people in local areas to actually create communities and help people where you didn't have to be active politically but still agreed with the ECA over topics like being against violence in video games. She is still a critical part of the gaming clan PMS gaming(and their male counterpart H2O gaming) where she and a good deal of female gamers are and have competed on a professional level.

The thing is that the real people you want representing you, you aren't looking hard enough and only looking at the shallow end of the pool. This is why guys like me do criticize Anita and all of her supporters that want her as some representative. She isn't going to do you justice compared to the people who actually gave their time, traveled around the country and actually have done the work compared to a person who does armchair journalism from an ivory tower. Also the best representation always comes down to doing it yourself.

Lovely video today, Jim. I wish you'd been able to come out with this stuff when the issue was originally blowing up, but you probably would have been accused of hating women as long as you didn't completely support Random Q. Feminist's hastily thought out positions on gender and gaming.

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