Jimquisition: Anita Sarkeesian - The Monster Gamers Created

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I think everyone should just get over it. Look, there are feminist interpretations of everything. Feminist interpretations of history, economics, politics, film, art, theater, comics, and now video games are joining in. Big deal, this was an inevitability. There are interpretations from every school of thought. Marxist interpretations, Deconstructionist interpretations, Historicist interpretations, Existentialist interpretations, and so on and so forth.

Someone would have made a Marxist interpretation of gaming long ago, if not for the fact that a Maxist interpretation of Tetris would have been the most hilarious thing of all time.

So, now Ms. Sarkeesian is one of the first to use feminist theory to examine games. It is not the end of the world, and certainly no reason to go off on her or anyone else like people have been.

I'm sorry but that's just bullshit. Two wrongs don't make a right. Since when was the stupidity of one person excused by the stupidity of a few others? She's still a nut and she's still wrong and she should still be criticized, I haven't threatened anyone and I haven't done anything wrong, so I see no reason why my opinion should be invalid. It's the internet, bullshit and scumbags are everywhere. The only reason it raises eyebrows now is precisely because she's a woman. A man being threatened by trolls wouldn't even make a forum post, let alone a bunch of publicity. She's a troll that people fed. Then A FEW people got pissed that she got fed and acted like idiots, which just fed her more. Her ambition has been intentionally controversial, because that's almost a guarantee for publicity, and it worked. That's exactly what trolls do, because she's never said anything that would be of value in a civilized debate. Your answer is to ignore the troll and be apathetic, well people don't like doing that. If people were good at ignoring trolls, we wouldn't have any.

And you, Jim, and many others, make up weird assumptions about why people would be critical towards her. I'm not a misogynist, I'm not afraid of women or feminists "ruining my games". Don't fucking put a label on me and bunch me together with social retards, misanthropes and psychopaths. Because that's offensive as fuck and makes me genuinely upset.

I don't even know who this person is. Haven't heard of her until this video. Nonetheless, by watching this video, by commenting, we are all now part of this machine. lol. Irony, almost as much a bitch as karma.

maninahat:

ElPatron:

Azuaron:
feminism: A social theory or political movement supporting the equality of both sexes in all aspects of public and private life;

[...]

Get that? Feminism is for the equality of the sexes.

Name five prominent feminists that defended male rights?

I didn't want to be anal about this, but the word just sounds wrong and should be changed. It's like if the opposite of Racism was Blackism.

I think feminists operate under the understanding that men's rights don't need defending, as they already have all the rights and privelidges the women are after. Expecting a feminist to defend male rights is like complaining about how Martin Luthor King didn't spend more time looking out for white guys, or how gays aren't supportive enough of hetrosexual marriage rights.

There are no heterosexual marriage rights under attack and I don't think whites had any big problems in MLK's time.

And feminists keep acting like all we need to do to achieve equality is listen to them. They act like the be all end all solution to all sexism problems, so if they don't give any attention to mens' issues they're full of shit (please note I did not say equal attention, I said some attention).

maninahat:

LostintheWick:

I don't think this is the wrong thread to say that. In fact... I totally agree. Isn't this kind of ironic? Are we objectifying her for thinking this? Idk... but I would like to think, no.

Well, Anita did argue that the act of undressing women empowers men and degrades women in a Bayonetta video. I suppose that finding her attractive is objectification and therefore proof of sexism in gaming communities.

If you mention that she wears make up and fixes her eyebrows she'll delete your comment.

She mentions she wears make up and fixing her eyebrows. There is a difference between stripping off a woman's clothes, and a woman putting on make up, or even a man finding a woman attractive. I'm assuming she would prefer you to discuss things other than her appearance though, seeing as how most already extend that courtesy to men like Jim.

Ask Jim how often people bring up his weight whenever they troll him, or just call him ugly.

daxterx2005:
I'd never even heard of this woman until your video Jim.

The irony threatens to implode and take us all with it.

This is pretty ironic given Jim's dismissal of criticism in these forums.

Hollyday:
Did someone say Anita Sarkeesian thread? YAY!

Scrustle:
You're right Jim, but I think that the points you talked about were all kind of old news. It was all obvious from the point when Anita decided to flaunt all those threats to gain more support. Now it's about her ignoring legitimate criticisms and making other people do her work for her. You're right in the reasons why she'e ignoring the more valid and intelligent criticisms levelled against her, but that doesn't mean that they shouldn't be talked about. It doesn't really matter if she replies to them or not, if they gain enough traction then people will pay attention. But I fear it's all too late any way. She's trolled the entire internet and got away with it.

It's the barely disguised hate and disgust in arguments like these which annoys me. You have a perfect right to dislike what she's doing, disagree with her arguments, hell, even disagree with the whole reason she's making these videos if you want to, but by using language like 'trolled the entire internet' and 'flaunt all those threats' you invalidate anything worthwhile you have to say about her. Just as Jim said in his video, if you want to debate about Anita Sarkeesian you now have to do it with such a dispassionate, level-head because to do otherwise is to throw yourself in with the angry mob the internet cooked up for her. And that's not her fault, it's all those who harrassed her. She's a victim of some of the nastiest stuff I've ever seen online, so if you want to pick her argument apart that's fine, but we need to show her some respect as well.

Are you aware of what a tone argument is? I don't see what Scrustle has done wrong in the way he has expressed himself.

Thank Fucking God for your Jim Sterling. Holy shit. Nailed it so hard with this one.

I've been saying this exact same thing since the whole debacle started. Unfortunately the internet doesn't pick up on things very well.

I think the main thing that people should take out of the situation is this.

"I disagree with your statement" is an opinion, valid, and will open up conversation.

"you're a fucking trolltard who deserves to go to the Hell I don't believe in and live in boiling feces because you dared hinted at something that displeases me in a way that completely disproportional to how much it really factors into my day to day living, oh and bonus, if you're a woman take these words to heart: Bitch, Cunt, Rape, and Go to the kitchen and make me a sandwich."... well, that isn't valid.

However, the latter gets put up a lot more than the former. People are tired of having these conversations? Why? Why and even how do people get tried of standing up for what you believe in? If you could make just one more person see your side of things, why would you deny yourself that chance?

But bare in mind, a profanity laden diatribe has never been a convincing argument. Not once in all of human kind. I don't know what about the internet that made this generation so rage filled, but no one is hearing you because they are just ready to fire a return-salvo at you. Talking with intelligence trumps bashing and flaming with what you think passes as cleverness.

Captcha: Just Drive.

I think that's what wrong with the mindset of people, Captcha... you scarily accurate 'piece of programming'.

My only real problem with the video is that Jim says that there are only two sides to the debate: the feminists who want "sexism" to be a bigger concern and those who want a "male space". I have never seen the latter except in Youtube comments by obvious trolls or a minority of idiots. But there is a third side, the side that doesn't feel that this is really much of an issue at all. That's the side I'm on. And I know there are others who agree. I know women, even a few feminists, who agree that there isn't much to argue with because not all games have revealing female costumes or stereotypical female characters and every game should be considered on its own. I don't see the big important issue here. Maybe a little one for certain kinds of games, but not some huge industry sweeping problem.

And after this, I will try my best to never post in another "sexism in gaming" type thread again. Keyword here being try.

I've been kinda indifferent towards the whole gender debate thingo so I don't really care... She is pretty hot though...

It's easy to argue when you lump the people who had a real problem with her with those who simply were sexist dickheads.

The thing is that kickstarter projects in particular get ALOT of hate, not just this one but all of them. Mostly because there are some people who think either
A) Kickstarter is a charity site (its not btw)
B) That none of these projects are worth the set amount of money and the rewards suck.

"B" is really a case by case thing and I truly believe that Anitas project was one of these. I wasnt the ones harassing btw but I do loathe a person who takes money from people without any real specification on why she would need the money. She has proper video camera and a proper studio, the only thing she would need the money is the research, but what does this research consist of? I asked her this and have yet to get a response. However I suspect her answer to be to buy a bunch of games to where she will play them and arrive to her preconceived notion of "Hey, video games are sexist". Only worthwhile thing she could do is to interview the devs to ask was her interpitation their intent.

Of course, asking a radical sex negative feminist to do real research is like asking a rock to give you a blowjob. Jokes aside, my point is that she was most likely basically raising money to buy games for herself so she could tell you what you already know about her position. And none of you have a problem with that? Really? Ok then, just asking.

Can anyone tell me what game is being shown at 4:58 to 5:14 ish?

OT: I agree with you Jim.

I agree with some of what Anita says, however her delivery and presentation on almost all points is completely off base. She's very confrontational, and she wants her own unrealistic vision of video games to come into existence. The reality is as such; Yes Video Games are still very much developed for a male audience. However that is indeed changing. The whole "I don't like it when women are portrayed like this in video games." is an absolutely absurd statement in itself.

There's definitely some demand for much better characterizations in video games. People like having an interesting character to relate to. That goes for both female and male archetypes. Whenever a game developer comes out with a game that has a strong, relatable female character, we praise it, and rightfully so. There's definitely some room for improvement there, just look at how Colonial Marines turned out. (It's worth noting that Female Characters were in development for Colonial Marines long before this whole media debacle started, but that's beside the point. Now people are happy to see some iconic female roles in an Aliens game.

In the end, there's absolutely nothing wrong with having sexualized females, or macho men in games. They're meant to be a diversion from reality. So attacking those types of games is just stupid. Instead, promote the games with great characters, and create a demand for them.

So what the &%^$ did she say that got the trolls in such an up roar? Never heard of her till today.

I can't believe that no body's figured out yet that the Internet is one of the rare places where ignoring a problem will actually make it go away.
And WTF did these retards think they were going to accomplish by attacking Ms. Sarkeesian personally? That never solves anything, it only adds fuel to the metaphorical fire. It's like people revert to being the hairy monkey people from 2001: A Space Odyssey once they get on the Internet. ...except saying that would be waaaaaaaay too kind.

The Human Torch:

Lunar Templar:
so ... what are these games she picked that are actually proving she donno what she taking about?

She bought a couple o' hundred games at random (seems random to me, because she pretty much bought out an entire store) and appearantly is going to play through them all to find out which ones are portraying women in a bad light. Ow, and she also asks her Kickstarter backers for information on which games actually do portray women in a bad light.

So yeah, seems like she has REALLY prepared for this video, it's not at all as if she is stabbing wildly in the dark. /sarcasm

Anyway, I agree with Jim and will continue to do what I've always done, ignore her and make no "I R ENRAGED" threads about this matter on any forum.

so ... she's basically attention whoring then? time honored practice as it my be, we hardly need her to go 'hey! games aren't portraying women well enough', thats kind of a 'no shit Sherlock' moment for me. I'd say any one with half a brain would have just ignored her, but >.> since Jim made a video about it, guessing we're short on those ....

This is why I tend to stay out of the 'gender war' threads, because it's nigh on impossible to have a logical, reasoned debate about it. Thank god for Jim.

Falseprophet:

AMorphine:
How would you guys feel if you had to play as a woman a lot of the time?

But we also have to agree that there are situations in which women are non-existent. If Call of Duty had sequences in which the characters were in shore leave then they should better fill the cities with women. But most main characters in CoD have positions not available to women (such as grenadiers in the 75th Rangers or the SAS).

I see no harm in playing as a woman, and I wouldn't get tired of it. The problem is that I have seen that most developers suck at portraying females and either way they might handle the situation they are guaranteed to piss off 50% of the audience.

Even you said that you don't like the 1 inch deep female characters under the g-string armor. How would you like if every game was like that? I wouldn't. Rather have poorly written male characters than downright insulting female characters.

We are talking about video games, which are most of the time not exactly perfect depictions of reality, even with games that are trying to be more real. In real life, if you kill 25 men on the battlefield you won't automatically call a nuclear strike. I'm not saying stick a pink giant octopus on a battlefield, just a woman. How would that hinder the enjoyment of the game?

You have to understand, most games that already force you to play as a woman are games like Portal, where being female is not as large of a problem. Protagonists are either silent and their sex has no bearing, or they are made as a fantasy for men. You don't have to have a male romantic interest. It's harder to identify with your character in so many male playable character only games. It's just not nice.

And I think it's quite sad that we live in a world where the only two options are either fewer female characters or terrible female characters. Don't you think so?

Woah woah woah, Jim, Jennifer Hepler made it about her gender before the internet did. In fact, that one actually did annoy me because her proposal for the option to skip gameplay was based on the notion that "when you're a woman you are too busy cooking and cleaning and GIRL THINGS for games! Tee hee!"

Granted, the responses were childish and moronic, but this is the internet.

Anyway, it's relatively delicious that the people who want her gone are the ones making her so popular. I've watched Anita's videos prior to the controversy; she's interesting, but her videos are flawed. I've discussed some of my issues with her, and my conclusion when people talk about censorship of her channel and stuff is that they are responding to her with tantrums. The big kids seem to get their comments addressed.

Meanwhile, yes. It's hilarious to watch trolls claim exploitation. ZOMG! WE WERE DICKS ON THE INTERNET AND SHE USED IT?????? I feel so...Cheap!

Congrats, kids, you are.

I hope she gets even more attention.

CrossLOPER:
I guess people just got tired of making fat jokes in the 90s and early 00's and moved back to females. Be thankful. :)

Also thanks for reviving this; we almost went a week without hearing about that nutter.

If, by almost a week, you mean a couple of days.

The irony that this video comes with a ready made thread to discuss the topic of the video. I suppose once the fire has demolished the city, what's another can of petrol?

I knew about the project slightly before the attacks. I was going to donate a couple of dollars because I thought it sounded like a video series I'd like to watch, something thought provoking, but I noticed it was well funded and like a person who understands what "enough" means, took my money elsewhere. I wasn't familiar with her previous work however; Now I am, obviously, everyone is by now, but I probably wouldn't have considered the donation had I.

I think the moderate, reasonable and rational among us, who it didn't even occur to to threaten and harass Anita, still have a leg to stand on, should we want to debate and challenge her when she's got the videos out. It's not so important that she respond, and is what I'd expect, since behind usernames you can't tell one asshole from another, so the internet might be a gelantinous cube of hate in her opinion, when it comes to engaging it.

goliath6711:

DioWallachia:
I dont see why now all the arguments against Anita would be useless for the death threats and such, when it is clear that those were a vocal minority. The amount of people doing actual research to counter act the thing she saids is WAAAAAY more bast in proportion. But i guess that, once again, people are focusing on the minority like if they were the ALL the detractors.

galaith100:
Dear Jim

She (Anita "Straw Feminist" Sarkeesian) knew that feminism is not popular. She knew she would have trolls, and she highlighted the worst of the trolls. She could have blocked the comments from the start if she wanted. I'm gone make it easy: We can't have an intellectuelll debate with Anita "Straw Feminist" Sarkeesian (her new name) because she don't want it. There would just not be some much hate aganst her if she was not a crybaby. She is a easy to hate Straw Feminist & Punchingbag.

PS. Jim, STOP SAYING "YOU". THE TROLLS ARE THE MINORITY.

Let's stop trying to pass off this type of behavior as just the "vocal minority". Because even if it was only one person that did it, it's still one too many. And while not all of her detractors made threats, all of the people that made threats were detractors. And if the majority of the detractors see these threats being made, know that these people are wrong for doing so, and not say anything to let that be known, why shouldn't they all be lumped together?

Because in a (NOT) surprisingly turn of events, those minorities that made that kind of crap are............wait for it.......TROLLS!! You dont ARGUE with a Troll, they are just to make mischief without basis or reason. So why would the REAL people who has a genuine problem with Anita ALSO have to deal with people who are just there to make noise so someone pays attention to them? Why would we have to be punished for solving what is clearly something that NEEDS less priority and, cannot be solved because those people are the same that jump at ANY discussion JUST to make noise for the sake of it?

AMorphine:

And I think it's quite sad that we live in a world where the only two options are either fewer female characters or terrible female characters. Don't you think so?

I'm not sure that's true. I think that's the false dichotomy a lot of people present when this issue is brought up....

galaith100:
Dear Jim

She (Anita "Straw Feminist" Sarkeesian) knew that feminism is not popular. She knew she would have trolls, and she highlighted the worst of the trolls. She could have blocked the comments from the start if she wanted. I'm gone make it easy: We can't have an intellectuelll debate with Anita "Straw Feminist" Sarkeesian (her new name) because she don't want it. There would just not be some much hate aganst her if she was not a crybaby. She is a easy to hate Straw Feminist & Punchingbag.

PS. Jim, STOP SAYING "YOU". THE TROLLS ARE THE MINORITY.

I don't think you know what a "straw feminist" is. For that matter, I'm not sure you know what a "crybaby" is.

Wow I got copped out by Jim Stirling! lol jk Seriously though inspite of my consistent debating on here with people regarding anita and sexism in general I agree with jim that its done nothing but help her in the long run.

Anywho good vid jim.

Edit: In my defense I did think before I made the anita/Ico thread and my ("HOW DARE YOU ITS ICO!!!") won out.

Oh wellllll.....lol

Lunar Templar:

so ... she's basically attention whoring then? time honored practice as it my be, we hardly need her to go 'hey! games aren't portraying women well enough', thats kind of a 'no shit Sherlock' moment for me. I'd say any one with half a brain would have just ignored her, but >.> since Jim made a video about it, guessing we're short on those ....

I am not sure if she is attention-whoring and if she is, if she is doing it consciously. It seems to me that she bit of more than she can chew.
Her original Kickstarter goal was $6,000,-, but in the end she amassed something like $150,000,-. If you ask me, she got more money than she could deal with and instead of using some of it to hire an advisor/assistant, she is doing everything on her own, as best as she knows how to (and her best may not be all that much).

What could have turned into an educational documentairy (you never know), created with the help of a professional recording and editting studio, will probably turn out to be a 30 minute Youtube episode where she just piles on example after example of supposed discrimination against women.

Or, it could be that she completely breaks down like that guy from the Kony 2012 organisation.... I honestly do not know.

I didn't care one way or another about this lady before I saw the video, and I still don't.

So...mission accomplished I guess?

Oh look, men with fragile egos and big mouths, protected by the anonymity of the internet. And over there, women who have taken feminism and warped it into something that has little to do with the original concept of female emancipation.

What else is new on the battlefields of the internet?

To quote The Boondocks: "You know, we could all be reading a book right now."

rbstewart7263:
Wow I got copped out by Jim Stirling! lol jk Seriously though inspite of my consistent debating on here with people regarding anita and sexism in general I agree with jim that its done nothing but help her in the long run.

Anywho good vid jim.

Edit: In my defense I did think before I made the anita/Ico thread and my ("HOW DARE YOU ITS ICO!!!") won out.

Oh wellllll.....lol

I think I posted in that thread. I giggled when I recognized the thread in his video.

The Human Torch:

Lunar Templar:

so ... she's basically attention whoring then? time honored practice as it my be, we hardly need her to go 'hey! games aren't portraying women well enough', thats kind of a 'no shit Sherlock' moment for me. I'd say any one with half a brain would have just ignored her, but >.> since Jim made a video about it, guessing we're short on those ....

I am not sure if she is attention-whoring and if she is, if she is doing it consciously. It seems to me that she bit of more than she can chew.
Her original Kickstarter goal was $6,000,-, but in the end she amassed something like $150,000,-. If you ask me, she got more money than she could deal with and instead of using some of it to hire an advisor/assistant, she is doing everything on her own, as best as she knows how to (and her best may not be all that much).

What could have turned into an educational documentairy (you never know), created with the help of a professional recording and editting studio, will probably turn out to be a 30 minute Youtube episode where she just piles on example after example of supposed discrimination against women.

Or, it could be that she completely breaks down like that guy from the Kony 2012 organisation.... I honestly do not know.

your probably right about it turning into one bad example after another, the self destructing in front of every one would be more amusing, for some one. weather she releases a video really means nothing to me, didn't care before, don't care now, likely won't care in the future, only way i'll watch it is i hear its good and thought provoking.

Zachary Amaranth:

AMorphine:

And I think it's quite sad that we live in a world where the only two options are either fewer female characters or terrible female characters. Don't you think so?

I'm not sure that's true. I think that's the false dichotomy a lot of people present when this issue is brought up....

To be entirely honest I think at this juncture with a lot of games it is like that. I however don't think that just because it is true it has to stay true. If publishers and studios cared more about the female demographic that would change quickly and drastically. They could also get more business if they did. I for one know that I enjoyed the Mass Effect series more because I had choices.

Jimothy Sterling:
Anita Sarkeesian - The Monster Gamers Created

Angry gamers have been to Anita Sarkeesian (and gaming feminism in general) what DRM has been to piracy. Attempts to kill a thing have only made it stronger.

Watch Video

Ironically, I have never heard of this women or the attacks on her, and by making a video on it you have become the stupid twat you were criticising.

Unless... that's what you were trying to prove? You clever bastard Jim!

No but seriously I didn't want to know about this.

Starik20X6:
This is why I tend to stay out of the 'gender war' threads, because it's nigh on impossible to have a logical, reasoned debate about it. Thank god for Jim.

Well ironically after watching some of her carp (because until today I've never heard of her before) I wouldn't be surprised if over half the misogynist comments were actually made by other women, especially after her bad mouthing of Twilight.

Some of the nastiest %$#^ I've heard said to women were made by other women. Case in point Selena Gomez attacks.

Very sad how so many people came along and MADE HER POINT FOR HER. Sorry to shout that, but yes. It's fucking moronic to make a counter argument in a way that validates your opponant's thesis.

I've been willing to give the project a chance. Granted, little has convinced me that she'll produce anything other than some whining from the "professional victim" and little in the way of solutions, but I'll let her speak, then rip her to shreds.

I find it interesting how I neither care for gender issues in gaming being taken more seriously, or think of gaming as a "safe male space." As a result, I don't give two shits about this debate and have not added any fuel to this fire.

I must have a direct line to Jim's brain, because more often than not, I'm already doing what he says we should do as a community, or feel the same way he does about other issues. I swear, we'd be best friends if we ran into each other. Thank god for Jim!

Redd the Sock:
Very sad how so many people came along and MADE HER POINT FOR HER. Sorry to shout that, but yes. It's fucking moronic to make a counter argument in a way that validates your opponant's thesis.

I've been willing to give the project a chance. Granted, little has convinced me that she'll produce anything other than some whining from the "professional victim" and little in the way of solutions, but I'll let her speak, then rip her to shreds.

She spammed 4Chan with her video, she DELIVERATELY seek out the worst of the worst to make her point. That is like gathering violent and unstable people to a survey and test if videogames make more violent people, and surpricinly enough, the test was positive. Well shiiiiiiiiiet, i wonder if using NON normal people for a test has something to do with it??? naaaaah, must be my imagination.

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