Jimquisition: Anita Sarkeesian - The Monster Gamers Created

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I was not fussed in the slightest about her kickstarter and heck there is sexism in the industry, games and with gamers. Her videos might of had some valid points or they could of just been shit.

Once I heard about the attacks however my first thought was "congratulations on proving her points" and if her kickstarter was still running I would of thrown a few bucks her way.

She is not just the Frankenstein's monster and she has laid bare to the entire world to see the ugly, sexist, vicious side of gamers. Frankly, grow the fuck up people, if you want games and gamers to be taken seriously then you have to be willing to accept others have a different view point and that they are allowed to make it.

Mcoffey:

Gamegodtre:

RaikuFA:

Cause thats one of the games she's targeting. Theres also racers like NFS and Blur on her list and even LBP. Now people are going to wait for her vids to see if its worth getting her investigated for fraud(theres a lot of people that think she did this just to boost her game collection).

Personally, I wouldn't be suprised if she made some of the accounts that harrassed her so she can play victim.

why the hell she attack Persona 3? for wht possible reason is there id understand Visual Novels more then anything but theres a reason for it in them and that even tho they dont get translated much there are also VNs that are targeted for women so its not so bad in that respect, also i agree with you on the latter portion.

Well there are the "Battle Panties" in Persona 3, a piece of armor only the female characters can wear that put them in a skimpy outfit. Kinda immature. Also just because she calls out certain aspects of games for having sexist tones, does not mean she's condemning the entire game, or the people who play them.

I've said it before; all the backlash against her simply proves her point. Gamer culture still has a lot of growing up to do, and it's really pathetic.

really thats the reason eh emm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G8wHEcVUxs0
yea im enot affended by tht and she gets affended by battle pantys a arbitrary piece of fan service? are there not better targets such as the new Parasite Eve on the PSP, or perhaps i dont know something more deserving of bile FFX2, yeah like that wasnt wrong in any way shape or form.
also Aegis and Mitsuru make some of the strongest female chars i no of.

something has been bothering me about all of this something quite odd and that is who is this woman? so i go watch 1 of her videos

ok that was reall really and i cant stress this hard enough really boring tome ranted i watched only the first episode (was going to watch 2 might go back later like i did with Jim but dunno)and made it for 2 minutes( but as Yahtzee once said something about knowing what something is and not needing to finish it,forgot the name of the review that he said the perfect qoute) but man it was like a infomercial, even tho i hated the first Jimquisition at least there was some feeling of emotion or care of the subject matter and i didnt feel tht in the 2 minutes i watched and i had to stop i just was shocked about it i mean a little passion wouldve been the norm but she was dryer then Mitch Hedberg delivery of his jokes, i mean at least Mitch in the one stand up i saw on comedy central had more uph in his delivery(felt as if he was reading those jokes it was odd), and god i never thought i could or would say that about anyone.

i think i spent more time then i meant to on but oh well.

Moeez:
"But we can't talk about that anymore, because the debate is not about whether she's right or wrong. The debate was invalidated when people decided to try to ruin her life en masse. The chance for debate on merit was lost once people started threatening to rape her."

It's funny how trolls have made her famous more than she probably would have been.

With many popular controversies and controversial people, I find the public's reaction more disturbing and ghoulishly fascinating than the controversy it'self.

Bara_no_Hime:
I made this point - ironically - in one of the threads Jim showed from the Escapist:

When Yahtzee called ICO sexist, no one cared. When she did it, she got threatened.

That is a different reaction to the same criticism based on the person's gender. That IS Sexism, and the reaction people have had disgusts me.

So thank the gods for you Jim, for pointing out how abhorrently certain gamers behaved about this.

There is a major difference between the two beyond just their genders.

Yahtzee isn't condescending to gaming as an art form or as a hobby, when he exaggerates he does so for comedy and while he does criticize gaming he never acts like it's a worthless den of immaturity.

Oh and Yahtzee's extra punctuation columns (which I'm betting you're getting it from) aren't nearly as popular as Sarkesian became, so less people read it and the criticism of Sarkesian gets made a lot more times than the criticisms of Yahtzee because of it.

Tastum:

aegix drakan:
TBH, I'm curious about what the hell she's gonna say about Bastion, though. I don't understand how that game is in ANY WAY sexist.

That's what I was wondering. If I was writing this series myself, my argument would focus around the fact that Zia really doesn't do anything. The Kid is the center of all the action in the game (and is the surrogate for the main character who is thus implied to be male), Rucks builds weapons and guides the Kid on his quest and Zulf acts as an antagonist, helping damage the Bastion and manipulating the remaining Ura into attacking. Zia? Besides singing, sitting around waiting to be rescued, being kidnapped and making you stew... not much really. She's simply the person Rucks is talking to all this time. Even in her backstory she is simply used to set up her father as a criminal, not really doing much herself. Since this series is going to be called women vs tropes, I'd point out that the trope I'm describing can be found on TVTropes as Men Act, Women Are. http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MenActWomenAre

(Disclaimer: I'm playing devil's advocate here. I don't believe that this was Supergiant's intent or that Bastion is an inherently sexist game. In fact, Bastion is currently my favorite game ever.)

Back on topic, there are people who make me reluctant to call myself a feminist, but there are relatively few of them compared to the hordes of males on the internet who feel totally safe making kitchen jokes. Being lumped in with them when I call myself a gamer is incredibly frustrating but reasonable gamers do have a responsibility to do something about them IMO.

Edit to note: I had only heard of Anita Sarkeesian from this video, although I had heard of Tropes vs Women previously. She might have made the argument above, I don't know.

Except that your argument is wrong. Zia was not kidnapped. She left with the URA on her own free will to learn the truth of the Calamity.

I had no idea who Anita ... Whatever was before this video. Jim, you're doing the same thing you're complaining about.

This is what the whole situation looks like to me: (The Youtube community will represent the role of Asshat; nothing new there).

Anita: I have an opinion!
Asshat: I hate your opinion enough to troll you for it.
Anita: Your trolling has tripped the relevancy of my opinion!
Asshat: I'm trolling you even harder now, because I'm a moron who doesn't learn from my mistakes.
Anita: My publicity has expanded sixfold!
Asshat: I am making personal threats now.
Anita: & if I so wish, I can have you tracked down & sued, with possible prison time that will stain your record for life.
Asshat: Because I am a hormonal lonely teenager, I am now moving on to something I can possibly win.

DioWallachia:

daibakuha:

DioWallachia:

She spammed 4Chan with her video, she DELIVERATELY seek out the worst of the worst to make her point. That is like gathering violent and unstable people to a survey and test if videogames make more violent people, and surpricinly enough, the test was positive. Well shiiiiiiiiiet, i wonder if using NON normal people for a test has something to do with it??? naaaaah, must be my imagination.

I would love to see if there is any evidence to actually support this. You do realize people lie on the internet? Especially on 4chan where it's very easy to make something up and have it be believed.

Here, have 5 videos that have been already shown before in this kind of discussions: (remember that as Jim said, she was a nobody before the incident of "Tropes Vs Games: Kickstarter Scam", so i highly doubt that the trolls were just waiting to post the dammed video ASAP she posted it on Youtube, because she was a nobody in the Internet)

Instigative Journalism:

Bill The Man From Kentucky:

Well those were some interesting videos on the subject, thanks for posting them.

B-b-but... she... has an opinion that ISN'T MINE!

How can I go on living, knowing that the internet isn't a massive echo chamber dedicated to validating my beliefs?

CrossLOPER:
I guess people just got tired of making fat jokes in the 90s and early 00's and moved back to females. Be thankful. :)

Also thanks for reviving this; we almost went a week without hearing about that nutter.

The irony, I think it is irony, well the something about this video was HILARIOUS.

"You wouldn't be hearing about X if you'd stop bitching about it."

"I wasn't hearing about X >_>...till you brought it up. This is like YOLO all over again."

To Jim's point about trolls bitching about being used to milk her project. I agree they gave her the damn harassment to milk for sympathy, but she posted her damn kickstarter to 4CHAN of all places, no just no, that is like throwing meat to wolves and then using the fact that the wolves ate it up as a reason to feel bad for her.

Who the fuck is Anita Sarkeesian? And who are the people who care?

... not me

"You could have debated her on an intellectual level"

Jim Sterling overestimates the audience who have been attacking her, apparently.

Jim, A Petard is a grenade, not a hook. I suppose you are just re-translating from the "hoist" in the common phrase, but one is not likely to be "hung" from a primitive grenade.

this just goes on to show that the best weapon to use against such people is just plain Ignorance.
just ignore them. Reminds me of the ending of Medivh Series.

What is THIS!? A Jimquisition video about a woman who is NOT Jim wearing a dress?
BLASPHEMY!!!

Also, Jim is once again, absolutely correct. The trolls had it coming ...it's their own damn fault for what they were wearing :P

I COMPLETELY agree with Anita.

Honestly, what harm would having realistic/less sexist woman in video games do? I can only see it adding to video games, maybe even levelling out the video game community by increasing civility and less primitive persons.

You have to admit, you're ALWAYS hearing about immature video game players screaming and yelling and swearing the most disgusting things imaginable, the kind of stuff you only used to hear if you went to prison! These people may be a minority... but they're a pretty freaking loud one!

Anyway, there's a reason gamers are getting a terrible stereotype, Anita's views make a good point about how we could better ourselves, and by extension the community. Make the swearing, the rape threats and other immature acts go away, there's no real reason for it.

I'm not saying female roles in games creates these atmospheres in online (and offline) games, but it would only be a step forward for us, not a step back.

I want to one day declare myself a gamer without the immediate response being "so, you're a 13 year old boy with anger problems".

I want woman to feel accepted while playing a game, online and off. Gaming is populated by men (or boys) and it doesn't have to be, it shouldn't be such a majority vs minority.

Tenmar:

Furrama:
While there are a few things she thinks is sexist that I don't (just a wee bit to far), there really aren't that many, and she makes enough good points. Fact is, woman gamers need a prominent woman somebody to stand up for us in the public eye more often, and we don't really have many options right now. The fact that she got famous was indicative of the problem; she wouldn't exist as she does in the public eye if the harassment/sexism issue wasn't already so bad. Sometimes the immune system is going to flare up and go overboard before things really get better. Then I can only hope we're left with more women we can look up to with which to diversify the topic, and then hopefully it will all get better and we can all stop having the same conversation over and over.

The attitude I don't like that I keep hearing from a lot of internet personalities is that " Fine, we'll talk about this and things will go right back to the way they were everybody. No cause for alarm, and then we won't look like the jerky ones." No. NO. It won't go away until things change. We will have the same conversation, (even her points have been made before somewhere), over and over until things change. Misogynistic crap should be relegated to a back corner of the store, not left to be praised in the mainstream eye. I want games any gender can enjoy, on a fundamental human level more often. It happens, but not as often as it should.

I'm sorry but if you want her to be your "representative" for "women gamers" then you really should understand that there are already much better qualified people that have actually given their time and effort to make video games better for everyone.

Ever heard of Daniela Lao? She used to be a key part of the ECA(Entertainment consumers Association) in charge of the community charters helping people in local areas to actually create communities and help people where you didn't have to be active politically but still agreed with the ECA over topics like being against violence in video games. She is still a critical part of the gaming clan PMS gaming(and their male counterpart H2O gaming) where she and a good deal of female gamers are and have competed on a professional level.

The thing is that the real people you want representing you, you aren't looking hard enough and only looking at the shallow end of the pool. This is why guys like me do criticize Anita and all of her supporters that want her as some representative. She isn't going to do you justice compared to the people who actually gave their time, traveled around the country and actually have done the work compared to a person who does armchair journalism from an ivory tower. Also the best representation always comes down to doing it yourself.

No, I haven't heard of her. I'm sure she's lovely, but I'm wary of someone who's involved in a group called PMS anything.

Aaaand I don't think you read what I said, or at least didn't get the spirit of it. I want many people that many people actually know about for my representation, or otherwise what's the point? No one will hear. The issue is: I don't really have any. Or nobody knows who they are. I can name many prominent men in the field of manliness and gaming, and even more if I dig, but not that many women. And the ones I do know of not that many other people do. Like it or not, Anita is the first real one of us to really get any attention and bring our issues out into the open, (kicking and screaming to boot). Just because I disagree with a point or two she's made doesn't mean she's Hitler. It means we differ. That's why we need many voices, but a general core message. We don't have that yet.

hmm... i honestly didn't know of her existence since today.... i can see her point but....she bad mouthed bastion...but mostly i just don't really care. i almost didn't comment mostly because i didn't care that much...wow this was actually hard....lols. also just wanted to ask, how does this effect us? i'm not quite sure of it. THANK YOU EXCAPIST USERS! YOU GUYS BRING KNOWLEDGE TO HEAD!

Falsename:
I COMPLETELY agree with Anita.

Honestly, what harm would having realistic/less sexist woman in video games do? I can only see it adding to video games, maybe even levelling out the video game community by increasing civility and less primitive persons.

You have to admit, you're ALWAYS hearing about immature video game players screaming and yelling and swearing the most disgusting things imaginable, the kind of stuff you only used to hear if you went to prison! These people may be a minority... but they're a pretty freaking loud one!

Anyway, there's a reason gamers are getting a terrible stereotype, Anita's views make a good point about how we could better ourselves, and by extension the community. Make the swearing, the rape threats and other immature acts go away, there's no real reason for it.

I'm not saying female roles in games creates these atmospheres in online (and offline) games, but it would only be a step forward for us, not a step back.

I want woman to feel accepted while playing a game, online and off. Gaming is populated by men (or boys) and it doesn't have to be, it shouldn't be such a majority vs minority.

You and Anita both have something in common - no realistic suggestions or solutions to address the issue. Only a bullet list of observations, only stuff you can point out and yell feebly "This is wrong, somebody please fix it!"

The whole Tropes vs Women topic was nothing than a drop in the ocean, Sarkeesian being nothing more than a spec of mist.
Jim correctly stated that the topic was confined to a tiny pocket on the internet, a topic that really wasn't ready and had no place under the spotlight - but thanks to the massive backlash against Sarkeesian, the whole thing got inflated into something much bigger than it should be.

Which is a good thing as far as the issue is concerned, right? Sure, for now.

But it's all in vain. As the over-inflated that Sarkeesian and her campaign have become, give it a few months/years. It will deflate, subside and be forgotten in the vast ocean of the industry (or atleast go back to the tiny corners of the internet). As long as a game developer can shout "WHO WANTS TITS?" and roughly 5 million people yell back "WE WANT TITS!" guess what you will see in video games every now and then? Tits.

While it's a justified topic of discussion, sexism in gaming is insignificant as far as most consumers are concerned. So discuss away to all your hearts' content, for all the good it will do.

Falsename:
I want to one day declare myself a gamer without the immediate response being "so, you're a 13 year old boy with anger problems".

Wow. Whoever told you that is an absolute moron and no better than a 13 year old themselves, how can you take such a thing to heart? I declare myself a proud gamer wherever I go and whoever automatically judges me as a "13 year old with anger problems" can continue to live in their cave eating raw fish.

Gamers and Anita - you two deserve each other.

Man this video felt rather... offbase. "Hey everyone who has issues with her for any number of reason, because she advertised for her kickstarter on 4chan and was trolled, this is YOUR fault!"

nikki191:
I was not fussed in the slightest about her kickstarter and heck there is sexism in the industry, games and with gamers. Her videos might of had some valid points or they could of just been shit.

Once I heard about the attacks however my first thought was "congratulations on proving her points" and if her kickstarter was still running I would of thrown a few bucks her way.

She is not just the Frankenstein's monster and she has laid bare to the entire world to see the ugly, sexist, vicious side of gamers. Frankly, grow the fuck up people, if you want games and gamers to be taken seriously then you have to be willing to accept others have a different view point and that they are allowed to make it.

This post has succinctly spelt out my own opinion on everything that involves sexism in gaming. Though I always thought most of it came from the gamers more than anything.

However, I have a theory on how so many gamers are sexist: they exist because they are immature. When you have something like the G.I.F.T coming into play - that immaturity intensifies due to the fact that the gamer is anonymous and their opinions will not have consequences.

I think Anita Sarkeesian is very much onto something. Sexism is pretty commonplace amongst gamers and gaming in general. However, developers only make what people want - and the immature gamers amongst us do tend to shout loudest.

While time is the only thing that can turn the immature into mature and responsible people, most people don't want to wait that long. Perhaps the next best thing is to remove headsets from the next console generation and sell them separately at a grossly overpriced level. While it's not fair for those who use headsets responsibly - but Anita Sarkeesian has only highlighted that the all-around abuse starting to reach what I would call unacceptable levels.

Personally, I think it's time for the gaming world to grow up and perform a little housekeeping.

Where the heck did Jim get the idea that "gamers" were the source of this? She's been doing mysandric videos on any old topic in her videos up until now. People who say "they didn't even let her get her opinion out first" clearly haven't bothered watching her Youtube channel, which might have been thought simple but necessary research to do if you were to, say, make a video about her. She's already pissed far too many people off to pin this on "gamers".

TAdamson:

Scrustle:
You're right Jim, but I think that the points you talked about were all kind of old news. It was all obvious from the point when Anita decided to flaunt all those threats to gain more support. Now it's about her ignoring legitimate criticisms and making other people do her work for her. You're right in the reasons why she's ignoring the more valid and intelligent criticisms levelled against her, but that doesn't mean that they shouldn't be talked about. It doesn't really matter if she replies to them or not, if they gain enough traction then people will pay attention. But I fear it's all too late any way. She's trolled the entire internet and got away with it.

It's actually people who make arguments like yours who Jim is complaining about. Instead of attacking the substance of her arguments (Which are easily shot down.) you attack the her for "flaunting those threats to gain more support."

If you're the target of vile threats shouldn't you be allowed to talk about it? How is that trolling the internet? The trolls the ones threatening to rape Sarkeesian. She just has some opinions that are somewhat dubious but worth discussing.

Incorrect. I've never said anything like I want to rape her and I never would. My arguments have always been about the content of her arguments and her actions, not the fact that she's a woman or she's trying to make these arguments at all.

And it's not that she talked about the threats, it's how she did. She used them to gain more support. She put them on display and said "look what all the nasty people are saying", and so because of that people leapt to her defence (which she didn't need) to prove that they weren't. She's never once answered any kind of intelligent or valid criticism.

Jim really was right. Because people did say those disgusting things people really can't make a real argument without being accused of being part of the throng of sexist troglodytes.

Just because someone has been attacked for something doesn't mean they automatically need sympathy. She clearly hasn't been negatively effected by it. As Jim shows, it's done nothing but make her stronger.

bunji:

She isn't the first one to raise this point ladies and gentlemen, she just happens to be an incredibly snarky cunt, the kind that spells woman "womyn" and thinks that electric guitars should be banned for being phallic powersymbols. And, referring to your overwhelming empirical material, being a cunt is a good way to get yelled at on the net.

DioWallachia:

1)Anita makes videos about POINTING OUT things that are "sexist". That is all she does, as soon a woman gets ANY kind of bad treatment, then its sexist. Nevermind if it is for a character development arc or for the theme/context the work of medium is trying to tell. Pointing out is NOT the same as EXPLAINING IN DETAIL why is it sexist, she doesnt even TRY to make a good argument and she controls what comments will stay in the videos on Youtube, regardless if they have legitimate criticism about her "work" (sarcastic quotes)

It's cute that either of you think that anyone involved in the shitfest surrounding Anita has actually watched any of her existing videos, let alone responded to the content or tone therein.

Naive, but cute.

Here's the reality: None of the people that spewed the immature internet bile that made this a news story have watched or read anything Anita Sarkeesian has written. They have responded en masse to the mere concept that videogames be criticised for being sexist, and responded in such a way as to reinforce and underscore that point at every turn.

And this is what Jim's video is about. No-one at all in any of this has ever addressed the content of the existing Feminist Frequency videos or blogs, at no point has the internet hate machine focused on anything Anita Sarkeesian has said or written, it has all been about her as a person, and it has predominantly been focused specifically on her gender.

The upshot of that is that it is now impossible to discuss the content of her work, because the tempestuous vortex of stupidity that is internet gaming discussion will invariably drag the topic of discussion immediately to the person not the argument.

Jim nailed it.

"The chance to debate her on merit was lost once people started threatening to rape her. Now it's hard to debate her points without people thinking you hate her because she's a woman."

This one is win!

Hoisted on her own petard* Age of Empires II, champ :P

Edit II: She is pretty; I would like to talk to her in case she turned out to be an attractive person as well.

NightowlM:

malakaira:
Well personally I fucking hated her before this whole kickstarter thing even started up I hate feminists like her that only look at stuff a face value and then disregard EVERYTHING as misogynist..........

That being said I still I can't really give less of a shit what she is doing especially because I want to watch the inevitable deconstruction videos that completely annihilate her poorly constructed arguments.

So you completely don't give a shit, but you thought you'd tell everybody how little a shit you give? And if you really didn't care, you wouldn't even bother having anything to do with Sarkeesian. But obviously you have a vested interest in seeing people rip into her. I wonder what that's all about?

I don't give a shit what she does yeah in terms of her Tropes and women thing BUT what I do care about and want to see is the discussions put forward by Jim, Instig8iveJournalism and other internet personalities I watch on the net.

Helmholtz Watson:
Are you aware of what a tone argument is? I don't see what Scrustle has done wrong in the way he has expressed himself.

He hasn't done anything wrong, but the way he expressed himself got my back up. And that's the point. When we use emotive language like that we make it very clear to the reader what our position is, and that takes away from any logical, intelligent point we might be trying to make because it makes it seem like our judgement was clouded by our obvious feelings towards that topic, either positive or negative (you could probably say the same about me in my praise of her). But aside from that he was giving his opinion on her actions in a negative way and I disagreed with them:

Scrustle:
But I fear it's all too late any way. She's trolled the entire internet and got away with it.

I disagree very strongly with this, since it is entirely opinion, so the tone argument point doesn't apply. @Scrustle and @Helmholtz Watson - could you explain why you believe this, because I'd like to know where you're coming from with this. I know you might think I'm naive, but I really don't think she's a troll - she's just a woman trying to make some internet videos.

well... she knows how to push the buttons... and the less mature part of our community took action... while we were going to watch her disappear with her kick-start scandal... but now... she is going super nova... oh well...

this only made us all look bad, and helping her stand on her claims... lame.... truly... lame...

But Jim, I'm an athiest, who do I thank for you?

I think it really is a shame that so many in the gaming community cant discuss such things with a level head, I really do think we would be better as a community (if we are in fact one community) for such debate.

I was literally uttering "who?" at the screen when I first read the caption to this.
Thank god for your publicity, now I know who this person clearly deserving of our full attention is.

minimacker:
Jim nailed it.

"The chance to debate her on merit was lost once people started threatening to rape her. Now it's hard to debate her points without people thinking you hate her because she's a woman."

See that's the thing isn't it. She's not a very good academic and I and a lot of other would LOVE to tackle her on merit, and have done on this forum before. There's a giant barrier to it now and why? Because she went and got a custom ordered vitriolic reaction from 4chan by posting her Kickstarter there.

It's possible that she did that to draw attention to herself, and in the process of doing so has given herself a free ride. To be honest that just makes me feel like we should push through the hate and try to debate her on merit even harder.

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